Sandra, I know that was true in 17th century Virginia, but was it true in Pennsylvania? I'm not arguing; actually I've tried to determine if that was the case and not found actual pervasive cruelty outside of Virginia. In Virginia people were worked, starved and beaten to death and sometimes outright murdered. The skeletons of young men had old age osteoarthritis. My emigrant Smith ancestor was an indentured servant, along with his wife. At one point I wondered if their employer fathered my 2 x great grandfather. Those people don't seem to have been paragons of virtue as we would see it, but they do seem to have been scrupulous and to have treated the Smiths well by their own standards. When they left service they were given enough money to buy a plot of land sufficient to support a family, consistent with colonial Pennsylvania law. It was 1797, so I don't know if that law still applied. The indentured servants of the Pennsylvania Dutch were fond of running away, and the Pennsylvania Dutch farmers seemingly as fond of chasing after them with big whatevers, which is never a good sign, but I don't know if the specific problem was maltreatment. They were often separated from other family members, and they were required to work hard. I am increasingly aware that many people today THINK it's mistreatment if people have to work hard, all day long, and one can imagine what many young people separated from their parents by one reason or another might have thought. I don't recall mistreatment of indentured servants or their running away to have been frequent problems in colonial New England. My brother in law's emigrant male line ancestor was an indentured servant. He seems to have been treated as one of the family, essentially, and he too ended up with his own land. Dora -----Original Message----- From: Sandra Ferguson Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:07 PM To: PaOldCh Subject: [PaOldC] Indenture While indenture seemed to be a symbiotic relationship for both owner and servant, we need to remember that 40% of indentures died before completing their term. Times were hard for all but I can't help but think this was a higher number of deaths than in the general population. Sent from Sandra's iPod ???? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Since this trip would take from 60 to 90 days (depending on weather) would require 180 to 270 meals (assuming you were not seasick) no doubt was a good portion of the fare. I know what those people went through having spent 18 days being seasick crossing the north Pacific in January.
While indenture seemed to be a symbiotic relationship for both owner and servant, we need to remember that 40% of indentures died before completing their term. Times were hard for all but I can't help but think this was a higher number of deaths than in the general population. Sent from Sandra's iPod ????
>From Records of individuals bound out as servants, etc, inPjiladelphia, pa by Mayor John Gibson 1771-1772 and Mayor Wm Fisher 1773 1771 Oct 3 Johannes Kayer Michael Tubb James Boury Dionysus Bush Matthias such user 1771 Oct 4 Mary Christiana Berardin Barbara Trube Mary Pruet Henry Baker Wm Baker James Bernard John Fleming Wm Allison James bell 1771 oct 5 Catharine Staagnerin Frederick Meyer James Stanton James Reely Ann WilliamsCatherine Harley Charles Deshler Andrew Yerkyes 1771 oct 7 Jacob Kempf Margaret Flower Robert Sinkler Hannah Mackendon Mary Stamper Mary Barret Edmond Murphy 1771 oct 8 Jacob Grubb Maria Barbara Leichin Benjamin Thomton Jacob kremewald Benj Creus John Snuke Charles Kirby Thomas Harding Elizabeth Pontin George Jordan Barbara Senfun 1771 oct 9 Barbard Cain Johan Daniel Schrodter Johan Daniel Schrodter (there are 2 of them) Juliana Trube Robert Stohes John McCarthy John George Young John George Young (2 of them) Maria Elizabeth Young John Moyer Jacob Cauffman Jacob Young, wife Barbara John Kurtz Geo Miller , Anna Barbara his wife 1771 oct 10 David Miller (this will be an ongoing project for me). This is a fascinating record, for it includes, beside the servant, the port they're from, to who indentured, the residence, occupation, and term. I read a couple very odd things.....1... A woman was to be paid in Irish silver and ...2... A woman's term was "1 yr, commencing the 7 Aug, last, the day if her arrival in America as stipulated by an indenture under the hand ok the Mayor of Cork, in Ireland. Sent from Sandra's iPod ????
Nearly half of the Mayflower passengers died the first year and an even larger percentage of settlers at Jamestown died the first year (66%) and that's just the first year -- deaths were in high percentages for several years in the very early settlements, and there was a high death rate of passengers before they even got here, dying at sea. Of course 100% of the Roanoke settlers died or vanished (other than the few who went with Gov. White to reprovision). It was a very dangerous new world for a long time. Kathi Jones-Hudson, National Manager Tombstone Transcription Project http://www.usgwtombstones.org/ >________________________________ > From: Sandra Ferguson <ferg@ntelos.net> >To: PaOldCh <pa-old-chester-l@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 12:07 PM >Subject: [PaOldC] Indenture > > While indenture seemed to be a symbiotic relationship for both owner and servant, we need to remember that 40% of indentures died before completing their term. Times were hard for all but I can't help but think this was a higher number of deaths than in the general population. > >Sent from Sandra's iPod ???? > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >
from a lookup in the MENDENHALL-NEWLIN ALLIANCE, by Abel. Martha Newlin, d of Nathaniel Jr (1690-1732) and Jane Woodward Newlin. Martha was born 18 Nov 1721...d1806 m 1740 Isaac Harvey s of Wm and Judith Osborn Harvey. They moved to Alamance, NC, and are buried in the nearby Spring Friends Cemetery Sent from Sandra's iPod ???? >> >> >> >> >> >> >
>From skimming the owners/servants info, I realized that there were many more servants than I, personally, had expected, and I think that what may have happened was that servants were not always listed as such and the records I looked were, perhaps, a more complete look at owner/servant relationships. Tomorrow I'll take a look at the data again and see what I can see. I looked in a book on Concord that has a listing of the components of wealth in Concord estates 1756-1789. Land was, by far, the thing most valued commodity, and "land was the overwhelming factor in total wealth." Owning land in Europe was not a possibility for the common man, the reason so many flocked to the New World.... the promise of land. Pa was a bit different than other colonies, though, as it was established by and for Quakers., and that meant Quakers of every social class. In reading about the early settlers there are a lot of well to do arrivals, some of them buying thousands of acres. Sent from Sandra's iPod
What is the source of income for the wealthy of today? There is no one answer to that for either then or now. I'm sure many had inherited land and wealth...Wm Penn received the land that comprised Pa from the King, in repayment of a loan. Some may have married for money, as today. Some were bankers, attorneys, tradesmen although land was probably the greatest source of most wealth in those days. Most of my Quaker families seemed to have been farmers, some well to do and some probably what you'd call middle class today. Sent from Sandra's iPod ???? On Oct 24, 2012, at 3:31 PM, JoAnn <ka7suz@concentric.net> wrote: > At 11:55 AM 10/24/2012, you wrote: >> 10. Re: pasenger fares 1750 (lfenimore) > > Next question, what was the source of income for the 'wealthy' immigrants? > >> says £10 or 60 florins ca 1750s [I think this >> is the original source for this info] but the >> difficulty is that it was only £8 8s in >> steerage in 1856 which was a 100 years later. It is hard to compare. >> >> One source says that in purchasing power a >> shilling in 1770 is worth about $8 today. The >> £10 fare is 200 shillings. By this measure >> that £10 fare is would cost about $1600 today. >> >> Another source says: >> >> In 1750 £2 5s [45 shillings] has a purchasing power of £299 in 2006 >> >> In 1750 a £10 fare [or 200 shillings] would be >> slightly more than 4 times the above amount. >> >> So more than £1200 which today [2012] is slightly more than $1900. >> >> Roundtrip airfare from NYC to London on British >> Air is about $1100 on December 1, 2012. >> >> Liane >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Family Wealth Wealthy farmers Wealthy manufacturers and weavers (I imagine wealthy should be put before the occupation *G*) Merchants Cordwainers Just trying to think what I have seen mentioned about people who brought servants over. Eliz On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 3:31 PM, JoAnn <ka7suz@concentric.net> wrote: > At 11:55 AM 10/24/2012, you wrote: > > 10. Re: pasenger fares 1750 (lfenimore) > > Next question, what was the source of income for the 'wealthy' immigrants? > > >says £10 or 60 florins ca 1750s [I think this > >is the original source for this info] but the > >difficulty is that it was only £8 8s in > >steerage in 1856 which was a 100 years later. It is hard to compare. > > > >One source says that in purchasing power a > >shilling in 1770 is worth about $8 today. The > >£10 fare is 200 shillings. By this measure > >that £10 fare is would cost about $1600 today. > > > >Another source says: > > > >In 1750 £2 5s [45 shillings] has a purchasing power of £299 in 2006 > > > >In 1750 a £10 fare [or 200 shillings] would be > >slightly more than 4 times the above amount. > > > >So more than £1200 which today [2012] is slightly more than $1900. > > > >Roundtrip airfare from NYC to London on British > >Air is about $1100 on December 1, 2012. > > > >Liane > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Crossing the Atlantic Contemporary accounts of the cost of passage from Rotterdam to Philadelphia in 1750 say the fare was £10 (sixty florins) per person, with children five to ten years old charged half-price. Assuming these fares, the Meÿ and Lorentz party of nine adults, and possibly some children, paid Captain Russel at least £90 for the Atlantic crossing.
>>so that was quite a whack of money! There is a fellow called Edward Bennett [1577-bef 1651] who supposedly paid for more than 800 servants to 'man' his plantations in VA! You would think it would have been cheaper to own the ship himself. In a paper online about the market evaluation of human capital it says, 'While £6 was the fare cited in the early colonial period, after the middle of the seventeenth century £5 was the fare normally quoted for passage to all colonies.' http://catotheyounger.org/academics/courses/PSC442_542/literature/Class_003_01February2011/008_OtherServitude/Galenson_TheMarketEvaluationOfHumanCapital--TheCaseIndenturedServitude.pdf £5 times however many servants is still a lot of money but the ship owner would need a profit at journeys end. Can't imagine sailing across the Atlantic on those little ships. Liane
http://mykeithfamily.com/index_files/Page509.htm says £10 or 60 florins ca 1750s [I think this is the original source for this info] but the difficulty is that it was only £8 8s in steerage in 1856 which was a 100 years later. It is hard to compare. One source says that in purchasing power a shilling in 1770 is worth about $8 today. The £10 fare is 200 shillings. By this measure that £10 fare is would cost about $1600 today. Another source says: In 1750 £2 5s [45 shillings] has a purchasing power of £299 in 2006 In 1750 a £10 fare [or 200 shillings] would be slightly more than 4 times the above amount. So more than £1200 which today [2012] is slightly more than $1900. Roundtrip airfare from NYC to London on British Air is about $1100 on December 1, 2012. Liane
I managed to get mine to come up but no pictures with them yet. I wanted to see if the photos they put up are any better than the ones I have already. The search engine does seem to be picky about the results. In order to find my great uncle's wife I had to use the surname from the marriage after he deceased, would have been out of luck if I hadn't known it. Holly -----Original Message----- From: pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Eliz Hanebury Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 2:19 PM Cc: PaOldCh Subject: Re: [PaOldC] Arlington I can't get any of my extended family buried at Arlington to come up <G> Ah well I may figure it out later. Eliz On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Sandra Ferguson <ferg@ntelos.net> wrote: > This was in the morning paper and may be of interest to some of you. > Arlington Natl. Cemetery now has a website where, when a name is > called up, a viewer can see when the person was buried and the dates > of their birth and death. Photos of the headstone front and back can also be viewed. > The database details roughly 400,000 > gravesites. > www.arlingtoncemetery.mil > > Sent from Sandra's iPod ????
I can't get any of my extended family buried at Arlington to come up <G> Ah well I may figure it out later. Eliz On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Sandra Ferguson <ferg@ntelos.net> wrote: > This was in the morning paper and may be of interest to some of you. > Arlington Natl. Cemetery now has a website where, when a name is called > up, a viewer can see when the person was buried and the dates of their > birth and death. Photos of the headstone front and back can also be viewed. > The database details roughly 400,000 > gravesites. > www.arlingtoncemetery.mil > > Sent from Sandra's iPod ???? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Arlington Cemetery In Delaware County is also online and they show where each person is buried. Lorraine -----Original Message----- From: Sandra Ferguson <ferg@ntelos.net> To: PaOldCh <pa-old-chester-l@rootsweb.com> Cc: ohbelmon-l <ohbelmon-l@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wed, Oct 24, 2012 11:39 am Subject: [PaOldC] Arlington This was in the morning paper and may be of interest to some of you. Arlington Natl. Cemetery now has a website where, when a name is called up, a viewer can see when the person was buried and the dates of their birth and death. Photos of the headstone front and back can also be viewed. The database details roughly 400,000 gravesites. www.arlingtoncemetery.mil Sent from Sandra's iPod ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
The amt doesn't mean much, though, though unless we can equate it to todays money. I use to have chart , but of course, can't find it! Sent from Sandra's iPod ???? > Crossing the Atlantic > Contemporary accounts of the cost of passage from Rotterdam to Philadelphia in 1750 say the fare was £10 (sixty florins) per person, with children five to ten years old charged half-price. Assuming these fares, the Meÿ and Lorentz party of nine adults, and possibly some children, paid Captain Russel at least £90 f
Just for something to compare, I pulled out my pile of family papers from the Chester area and here are some items and their associated cost: In 1754, a years rent paid on his property was 14 pounds. In 1768, a half ton of bar iron was billed out split between three gentlemen, one paid 3 pounds 15 shilling, another 3 pounds and the third 3 pounds 5 shilling. If my math is correct that is 10 pounds. In 1769, 7 pounds 15 shillings purchased a blacksmith bellows In 1777, sundry medicines and attendance to the family was billed out at 3 pounds, 7 shilling and 6 pence (unsure if they had insurance though!) If I could read handwritten old German script, I could come up with many more examples- I have enough trouble decoding English at times. Steve
At 11:55 AM 10/24/2012, you wrote: > 10. Re: pasenger fares 1750 (lfenimore) Next question, what was the source of income for the 'wealthy' immigrants? >says £10 or 60 florins ca 1750s [I think this >is the original source for this info] but the >difficulty is that it was only £8 8s in >steerage in 1856 which was a 100 years later. It is hard to compare. > >One source says that in purchasing power a >shilling in 1770 is worth about $8 today. The >£10 fare is 200 shillings. By this measure >that £10 fare is would cost about $1600 today. > >Another source says: > >In 1750 £2 5s [45 shillings] has a purchasing power of £299 in 2006 > >In 1750 a £10 fare [or 200 shillings] would be >slightly more than 4 times the above amount. > >So more than £1200 which today [2012] is slightly more than $1900. > >Roundtrip airfare from NYC to London on British >Air is about $1100 on December 1, 2012. > >Liane > > >
This was in the morning paper and may be of interest to some of you. Arlington Natl. Cemetery now has a website where, when a name is called up, a viewer can see when the person was buried and the dates of their birth and death. Photos of the headstone front and back can also be viewed. The database details roughly 400,000 gravesites. www.arlingtoncemetery.mil Sent from Sandra's iPod ????
Granted.... But, this was a pretty expensive undertaking.......I don't actually know how much passage cost but as many were willing to enter into servitude for years, to have their passage paid, we can assume it sure wasn't cheap. Then, on the other side of the coin are the people like I cited, who not only paid their own passage and that of their family members, but also 12 or more others. That's a huge amount if money to shell out and I was surprised at the number of apparently wealthy people who did the same thing... S. > > "I would imagine that in 1685 one would not want to assume that skilled labor would be available at journey's end and would bring one's own "community" for the job ahead." > > > > > Y