What I've heard lately is that there seems to be a rise in submissions from people that never visited the cemetery and never photographed a headstone. They seemingly post information they have found in secondary sources, such as county histories (and we all know how inaccurate many of those are). I'm sure they're simply trying to be helpful, but are, in reality, simply muddying the waters. I have no first hand experience with this, as many seemingly have, for I have been the one submitting photos and data for my own family. It's simply another case of what happens when there are no regulations for what may be submitted......it seems it started out with folks taking pics and adding them and their info to the site, which is as it should be, but is changing into a place where folks post what they or some secondary source 'think' is the burial site. Not quite the same as walking the cemetery and taking photos of the stone, which was how it started. Like everything else on the internet, we simply can't, unfortunately, believe anything without knowing where the info came from..... S. "I take photos of graves in my local cemetery to fulfill FindAGrave requests. Technically my photos are original sources because I took the pictures and own the copyright. We have to rely on families to supply accurate biographical information unless we do it ourselves with what we find on a tombstone. So we might consider FAG somewhat of a hybrid when it comes to secondary/primary".

I know people who have entered names from county books or cemetery books for Find a Grave. So, if there is a mistake in the book, there will likely be a mistake on Find a Grave. -----Original Message----- From: pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sandra Ferguson Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:33 PM To: Nancy Neuman; 'Barb Januscheitis'; pa-old-chester@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PaOldC] Find a grave What I've heard lately is that there seems to be a rise in submissions from people that never visited the cemetery and never photographed a headstone. They seemingly post information they have found in secondary sources, such as county histories (and we all know how inaccurate many of those are). I'm sure they're simply trying to be helpful, but are, in reality, simply muddying the waters. I have no first hand experience with this, as many seemingly have, for I have been the one submitting photos and data for my own family. It's simply another case of what happens when there are no regulations for what may be submitted......it seems it started out with folks taking pics and adding them and their info to the site, which is as it should be, but is changing into a place where folks post what they or some secondary source 'think' is the burial site. Not quite the same as walking the cemetery and taking photos of the stone, which was how it started. Like everything else on the internet, we simply can't, unfortunately, believe anything without knowing where the info came from..... S. "I take photos of graves in my local cemetery to fulfill FindAGrave requests. Technically my photos are original sources because I took the pictures and own the copyright. We have to rely on families to supply accurate biographical information unless we do it ourselves with what we find on a tombstone. So we might consider FAG somewhat of a hybrid when it comes to secondary/primary". ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

We have a tombstone in one of our cemeteries here in Vancouver WA for an Isaac Cox, with a death date of 1812. While it might not seem old for some areas of the country, this was only 7 years or so AFTER the Lewis & Clark Expedition, no town was here then. I thought maybe the guy was buried in the cemetery later on, after the cemetery and town were established. A few months ago I was doing a look-up in a Funeral Home record book for someone, and noticed an entry for an Isaac Cox who died in 1912. Mystery solved, after many years of wondering. I find lots of useful information at Find-a-Grave, including my grandmother's obituary (she died before my parents even met), and the wedding picture of my husband's grandfather's oldest brother (I know who submitted that--she sent me his diary years ago). Alice Allen On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Barb Januscheitis <bjanuscheitis@gmail.com> wrote: > I think of a tombstone as a secondary source of information.   The > older ones often contain inaccurate information for a variety of > reasons; mainly because the informant had the wrong information.  This > is especially true for the date of birth.  But it could also be true > for the date of death if the stone wasn't put in place until years > after the fact.  The stone may be wrong because the engraver made a > mistake and it wasn't corrected by the family for some reason. > Anyway, I use the information I find on a tombstone with a grain of > salt and look for additional sources to substantiate the facts. > > Barb in Minnesota > > >

After I posted my message I thought better of it :-) I serve on my local cemetery board so I try to find more than one record to verify someone's dates. That doesn't always work as you note. I looked for a civil war veteran for two years only to discover he has no monument. And recently I helped someone with a death date only to discover he was so hard to find because he probably was a bigamist. Nancy -----Original Message----- From: pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barb Januscheitis Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:25 PM To: pa-old-chester@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PaOldC] Find a grave I think of a tombstone as a secondary source of information. The older ones often contain inaccurate information for a variety of reasons; mainly because the informant had the wrong information. This is especially true for the date of birth. But it could also be true for the date of death if the stone wasn't put in place until years after the fact. The stone may be wrong because the engraver made a mistake and it wasn't corrected by the family for some reason. Anyway, I use the information I find on a tombstone with a grain of salt and look for additional sources to substantiate the facts. Barb in Minnesota On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:04 AM, Nancy Neuman <neuman.nancy@gmail.com> wrote: > I take photos of graves in my local cemetery to fulfill FindAGrave requests. > Technically my photos are original sources because I took the pictures and > own the copyright. We have to rely on families to supply accurate > biographical information unless we do it ourselves with what we find on a > tombstone. So we might consider FAG somewhat of a hybrid when it comes to > secondary/primary. > > Nancy > Lewisburg PA > > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 10:50 AM > To: pa-old-chester@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PaOldC] Find a grave > > I do the same Holly.  I love Find A Grave and have contributed > information and pictures of gravestones myself.   It's a lovely > secondary source of information, as is most of the information we > find.   Very little information that we find is a primary source.   By > using multiple secondary sources, we can build our case. > > Barb in Minnesota > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4761 - Release Date: 01/23/12

I think of a tombstone as a secondary source of information. The older ones often contain inaccurate information for a variety of reasons; mainly because the informant had the wrong information. This is especially true for the date of birth. But it could also be true for the date of death if the stone wasn't put in place until years after the fact. The stone may be wrong because the engraver made a mistake and it wasn't corrected by the family for some reason. Anyway, I use the information I find on a tombstone with a grain of salt and look for additional sources to substantiate the facts. Barb in Minnesota On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:04 AM, Nancy Neuman <neuman.nancy@gmail.com> wrote: > I take photos of graves in my local cemetery to fulfill FindAGrave requests. > Technically my photos are original sources because I took the pictures and > own the copyright. We have to rely on families to supply accurate > biographical information unless we do it ourselves with what we find on a > tombstone. So we might consider FAG somewhat of a hybrid when it comes to > secondary/primary. > > Nancy > Lewisburg PA > > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 10:50 AM > To: pa-old-chester@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PaOldC] Find a grave > > I do the same Holly.  I love Find A Grave and have contributed > information and pictures of gravestones myself.   It's a lovely > secondary source of information, as is most of the information we > find.   Very little information that we find is a primary source.   By > using multiple secondary sources, we can build our case. > > Barb in Minnesota > >

I take photos of graves in my local cemetery to fulfill FindAGrave requests. Technically my photos are original sources because I took the pictures and own the copyright. We have to rely on families to supply accurate biographical information unless we do it ourselves with what we find on a tombstone. So we might consider FAG somewhat of a hybrid when it comes to secondary/primary. Nancy Lewisburg PA Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 10:50 AM To: pa-old-chester@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PaOldC] Find a grave I do the same Holly. I love Find A Grave and have contributed information and pictures of gravestones myself. It's a lovely secondary source of information, as is most of the information we find. Very little information that we find is a primary source. By using multiple secondary sources, we can build our case. Barb in Minnesota

I do the same Holly. I love Find A Grave and have contributed information and pictures of gravestones myself. It's a lovely secondary source of information, as is most of the information we find. Very little information that we find is a primary source. By using multiple secondary sources, we can build our case. Barb in Minnesota On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 6:19 AM, Holly Timm <htimm@comcast.net> wrote: > I always source such info as Find A Grave and then refer to the cemetery etc > as part of the source. That way I know where I located the data and that it > may or may not be correct. > > Holly > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sandra Ferguson > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 9:17 PM > To: SusanVan@aol.com > Cc: pa-old-chester@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PaOldC] Find a grave > >  Be sure to ask the documentation for the info, and treat this as all data > ....make sure it's primary.  I've recently been reading about folks finding > incorrect info on the site......so ask where the info came from - the > source.  Apparently people have used secondary sources.....county histories, > etc........not good enough. >                                          S. > > Sent from my iPod > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I always source such info as Find A Grave and then refer to the cemetery etc as part of the source. That way I know where I located the data and that it may or may not be correct. Holly -----Original Message----- From: pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sandra Ferguson Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 9:17 PM To: SusanVan@aol.com Cc: pa-old-chester@rootsweb.com Subject: [PaOldC] Find a grave Be sure to ask the documentation for the info, and treat this as all data ....make sure it's primary. I've recently been reading about folks finding incorrect info on the site......so ask where the info came from - the source. Apparently people have used secondary sources.....county histories, etc........not good enough. S. Sent from my iPod

This Randal fits the description of the Randal in question although it doesn't say where he is buried. Randal Malin,of Great Barrow,in the county palatine of Chester,England, was a purchaser of 250 acres of land in Pennsylvania,by deeds of lease and release,dated 6th and 7th of March,1681.He was a grand juror at a court held at Chester in the 10th month 1684,and a settler in Upper Providence.His wife Elizabeth,died in the beginning of the 7th month, 1687,and in the 2nd month 1692 he was married to Mary Conoway,widow of Thomas Conoway and dau.of Valentine Hollingsworth,of New Castle County. He was reccomended as a minister 10-27-1725,and in 1727 removed with his wife within the limits of Goshen Monthly Meeting. By his first wife he had Isaac,b.the latter end of the 5th mo.1681,m. Elizabeth Jones and Jane Pugh;Jacob,b.7-7-1686,m.Susanna Jones.By the 2nd wife he had Hannah,d.y (young?);Hannah,b.1-7-1695-6,m.Daniel Williamson Jr.;Rachel,b.5-24-1702,m.John Cain;Katharine,m.George(?) Tate.Isaac Malin settled in Whiteland township,while his brother Jacob remained in Upper Providence,where he died in 1727. William Malin,,son of Jacob and Susanna,m.Elizabeth Crosley and had children Jacob,Thomas,Hannah,Joel and George.The last m.5-30-1794,at Providence Meeting,Rebecca Ogden,b.1-19-1775;d.9-9-1829;dau.of Aaron Ogden and Esther Preston.They had children Aaron,Elizabeth (m.Samuel Smedley),Preston,Orpha (m.James Green),Sidney,Rebecca,Esther,Ann,George, Isaiah,Amor,Emeline and Ogden C. By devise of his father,Samuel Smedley became possessed of the homestead with 100 acres of land,including the place of original settlement,in Middletown.This he bequeathed to his two daughters Elizabeth Ann and Ahinoam Smedley,suject to payment of legacies.To his nephew,Edmund Smedley,and the children of his sister Ahinoam Yarnall he gave $25 each. Lew Smedley aka George

Be sure to ask the documentation for the info, and treat this as all data ....make sure it's primary. I've recently been reading about folks finding incorrect info on the site......so ask where the info came from - the source. Apparently people have used secondary sources.....county histories, etc........not good enough. S. Sent from my iPod On Jan 22, 2012, at 7:46 PM, SusanVan@aol.com wrote: > Thanks everybody I will go to find a grave. I do volunteer work for them here in Brevard County Florida. > Thanks again > Sue > > In a message dated 1/22/2012 4:39:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ferg@ntelos.net writes: > Jane, this must be the same person.......same name, same date (or almost), > but buried in different places. The Sandy Bank Burial site has an > historical marker that says the following..... the person who is interested > might want to visit the Find A Grave site, and contact the person who took > the pictures, and the woman who posted the info on Malin...to see if she > actually saw the headstone, found the name in a cemetery listing, or where > she got it! > > > S. > "Borough of Media Historic Site. Part of an original land grant from > William Penn to William Taylor in 1682. Donated in July 1690 by Thomas > Powell to the Thomas Minshall Friends Meeting for use as "A Burying Place". > The oldest graves are marked by rough field stones and date from 1704. > Buried here are various members of the Taylor family whose descendant, > Zachary Taylor, became the 13th President of the United States in 1849. > Media Borough Council, 1977" > > > "I have a Randall Malin who was born in 1652 and died in Upper Providence in > (now) Delaware County in 1728 and who is buried in Whiteland Twp., Chester > County. He married Mary Hollingsworth on 2 March 1692. They had 4 children, > Hannah, Catherine, Mary and Rachel." > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I got so excited about this, but I fear it is not yet complete since I can't find any marriages from Delaware County.  At first I thought it was just my 'brick wall' that I still couldn't find, but my parents aren't there either not any of my grandparents.   Jane http://www.hootowlhollow.com http://www.hootowlhollow.blogspot.com   >________________________________ >From: Sandra Ferguson <ferg@ntelos.net> >To: pa-old-chester-l@rootsweb.com >Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 6:02 PM >Subject: [PaOldC] free marriage records > >A kind list member sent this info, on marriage records;  (thanks, Maria) >                                                                            >                        S. > >'FamilySearch.org recently added PA County Marriages 1885-1950, which >includes images of the originals & is free). > >https://familysearch.org/search/collection/show#uri=http://familysearch.org/searchapi/search/collection/1589502 > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

>From Sandras' list of West Point Grads Israel Vogdes 1833-1837 (Paoli, Chester Co) Israel Vogdes (August 14, 1816 - December 7, 1889) was a career soldier and military educator from Pennsylvania who served as a general in the Union Army during the American Civil War. Vogdes was born in Chester County, Pennsylvania, the youngest of five children of Aaron and Ann (Hayman) Vogdes. He was educated in the local schools. He graduated from the United States Military Academy in West Point, New York, in 1837 and was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the 1st U.S. Artillery. >From "The Genealogy of the Smedley Family" (Cope) #760 ABIGAIL BAKER (Jane,Jane,Sarah,George),b.Edgmont,8-5-1785;d.3-5-1846;m.Israel Vogdes,b.4-19-1775;d.Edgmont,6-11-1853;son of Jacob Vogdes and Elizabeth Hampton,of Willistown.No issue survived them. At first I thought the Israel in my book was maybe the father of the West Pointer. As you can see he is not.Israel Vogdes is not a very common name and I feel they are related in some way.Was Aaron Israels brother? Any help? Lew Smedley aka George

A kind list member sent this info, on marriage records; (thanks, Maria) S. 'FamilySearch.org recently added PA County Marriages 1885-1950, which includes images of the originals & is free). https://familysearch.org/search/collection/show#uri=http://familysearch.org/searchapi/search/collection/1589502

Jane, this must be the same person.......same name, same date (or almost), but buried in different places. The Sandy Bank Burial site has an historical marker that says the following..... the person who is interested might want to visit the Find A Grave site, and contact the person who took the pictures, and the woman who posted the info on Malin...to see if she actually saw the headstone, found the name in a cemetery listing, or where she got it! S. "Borough of Media Historic Site. Part of an original land grant from William Penn to William Taylor in 1682. Donated in July 1690 by Thomas Powell to the Thomas Minshall Friends Meeting for use as "A Burying Place". The oldest graves are marked by rough field stones and date from 1704. Buried here are various members of the Taylor family whose descendant, Zachary Taylor, became the 13th President of the United States in 1849. Media Borough Council, 1977" "I have a Randall Malin who was born in 1652 and died in Upper Providence in (now) Delaware County in 1728 and who is buried in Whiteland Twp., Chester County. He married Mary Hollingsworth on 2 March 1692. They had 4 children, Hannah, Catherine, Mary and Rachel."

I looked at the Find A Grave site and found the following.....could this be whom you seek? is this date in your 'ballpark?' Randall Malin, born in England, d. 1727...buried in Sandy Bank Burial Ground, Media, Del Co, Pa. There are a couple pictures included of the burial ground, which looks to be not well kept. I took a peak at the Goshen Meeting records, and many Randals are included....with wives and children...so, send me a date, if the above isn't whom you seek, and I'll see what else I can find. S. ' Does anybody know where Randal Malin is buried? Was it at Goshen meeting?'

How about even an approximate date., or other family members, or some way to decide which, of the quite a few Randal Malin in the index of Futhey and Cope, is the one you're looking for...... S. '' Does anybody know where Randal Malin is buried? Was it at Goshen meeting?''

I couldn't find anything on Israel Vogdes......there is no mention of the name in any area wills or in Futhey and Cope. I did see several things on a Jacob Vogdes....he was mentioned in the will of another, and the fact that his daughter, Rachel, was married to a Massey...1792. Jacob died intestate but did leave adm papers in 1811. Aaron left no will but adm papers 1816 and Ann left no will but adm papers 1828 Israel Vogdes 1833-1837 (Paoli, Chester Co) Israel Vogdes (August 14, 1816 - December 7, 1889) was a career soldier and military educator from Pennsylvania who served as a general in the Union Army during the American Civil War. Vogdes was born in Chester County, Pennsylvania, the youngest of five children of Aaron and Ann (Hayman) Vogdes. He was educated in the local schools. He graduated from the United States Military Academy in West Point, New York, in 1837 and was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the 1st U.S. Artillery. >From "The Genealogy of the Smedley Family" (Cope) #760 ABIGAIL BAKER (Jane,Jane,Sarah,George),b.Edgmont,8-5-1785;d.3-5-1846;m.Israel Vogdes,b.4-19-1775;d.Edgmont,6-11-1853;son of Jacob Vogdes and Elizabeth Hampton,of Willistown.No issue survived them. As you can see he is not.Israel Vogdes is not a very common name and I feel they are related in some way.Was Aaron Israels brother? Any help?

Lew- Maybe this will help. This is what I have in my records, but it can't be complete. Jacob and Elizabeth Vogdes must have had a least one son or Richard Vogdes had more than one son. Barclay Descendants of Richard Vogdes 1 Richard Vogdes Emigration: 1743 +? 2 Jacob Vogdes Address 1: Willistown Twp. +Elizabeth Hampton 3 Rachel Vogdes b: 6 November 1767 in Willistown Twp. +Israel Massey b: 7 June 1769 in Goshen Twp. Chester Co., Pa. Occupation: Blacksmith/farmer Father: Joseph Massey Mother: Ann Morgan Address 1: 1845 Valley Forge 4 Isaac Massey 4 Israel Massey 4 John Massey 4 Eli Massey 4 William Massey 4 Ann Massey 4 Aaron Massey 4 Jacob Massey b: 1793 in Willistown Twp. d: April 1869 in Tredyffrin Twp., Chester Co., Pa. Religion: Quaker +Rebecca Richardson b: 5 November 1785 in Upper Marion Twp. d: 1865 in Tredyffrin Twp., Chester Co., Pa. Married: 1812 Father: Jacob Richardson Mother: Eleanor Stephens 5 Isaac R. Massey b: 1815 d: 3 December 1884 Burial: FBG Valley Forge +Margaret C. Stephens b: 6 December 1827 in Tredyffrin Twp., Chester Co., Pa. Married: 20 February 1849 Father: Stephen Stephens Mother: Hannah Walker 5 Ellen R. Massey b: 1818 5 Rachel Massey b: Abt. 1820 +Ezekiel Dunwoody Married: June 1850 5 Jacob Massey b: Abt. 1823 5 Rebecca Massey b: Abt. 1826 5 Charles D. Massey b: 9 May 1828 +Rebecca A. J. Walker b: 15 September 1830 Father: William Walker Mother: Sarah Pennypacker 3 Hannah Vogdes b: 27 April 1770 +Isaac James 4 Israel V. James b: 3 May 1809 d: 27 February 1868 in Manayunk, Phil. +Sarah Smedley b: 17 August 1810 d: 29 August 1882 in Manayunk, Phil. Married: 10 November 1831 in Germantown, Pa. Father: John Smedley Mother: Mary Baker 2 Barbara Vogdes In a message dated 1/22/2012 1:16:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, smedley.george@att.net writes: >From Sandras' list of West Point Grads Israel Vogdes 1833-1837 (Paoli, Chester Co) Israel Vogdes (August 14, 1816 - December 7, 1889) was a career soldier and military educator from Pennsylvania who served as a general in the Union Army during the American Civil War. Vogdes was born in Chester County, Pennsylvania, the youngest of five children of Aaron and Ann (Hayman) Vogdes. He was educated in the local schools. He graduated from the United States Military Academy in West Point, New York, in 1837 and was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the 1st U.S. Artillery. >From "The Genealogy of the Smedley Family" (Cope) #760 ABIGAIL BAKER (Jane,Jane,Sarah,George),b.Edgmont,8-5-1785;d.3-5-1846;m.Israel Vogdes,b.4-19-1775;d.Edgmont,6-11-1853;son of Jacob Vogdes and Elizabeth Hampton,of Willistown.No issue survived them. At first I thought the Israel in my book was maybe the father of the West Pointer. As you can see he is not.Israel Vogdes is not a very common name and I feel they are related in some way.Was Aaron Israels brother? Any help? Lew Smedley aka George ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does anybody know where Randal Malin is buried? Was it at Goshen meeting? Sue van Vonno

I have a Randall Malin who was born in 1652 and died in Upper Providence in (now) Delaware County in 1728 and who is buried in Whiteland Twp., Chester County.  He married Mary Hollingsworth on 2 March 1692.  They had 4 children, Hannah, Catherine, Mary and Rachel.   Jane Unger http://www.hootowlhollow.com http://www.hootowlhollow.blogspot.com   >________________________________ >From: Sandra Ferguson <ferg@ntelos.net> >To: SusanVan@aol.com; pa-old-chester-l@rootsweb.com >Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 3:17 PM >Subject: Re: [PaOldC] Randal Malin > >I looked at the Find A Grave site and found the following.....could this be >whom you seek?  is this date in your 'ballpark?' > >Randall Malin, born in England, d. 1727...buried in Sandy Bank Burial >Ground, Media, Del Co, Pa.  There are a couple pictures included of the >burial ground, which looks to be not well kept. >    I took a peak at the Goshen Meeting records, and many Randals are >included....with wives and children...so, send me a date, if the above isn't >whom  you seek, and I'll see what else I can find. >                                                                            >                                                                            >                            S. > > >' Does anybody know where Randal Malin is buried? Was it at Goshen >meeting?' > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >