Hi Carole It does sound like a cock and bull story doesn't it He would have to be 18 and serve seven years minimum to get a pension, unless he was debilitated in service So if born 1854 he would have to serve for seven years from 1872 to 1879, so its possible he could do it between the census years of 1871 & 1881 However, in the census most men gave their occupation as Army Pensioner or XXXX & Army Pensioner He does not appear in the Chelsea Pension records as far as I can see neither does he show in the Navy service records on the National Archives Thats not to say he was not a pensioner, only that it does not look like it at face value £8 seems a lot of money for the time, I am unsure how pensions were paid then, monthly, yearly or ?? or where from Pensions would certainly be forfeit if convicted of a crime Where are you finding the information about the case? I don't see an obvious entry in the criminal registers Not sure what you mean by the Salvation Army though, they would have nothing to do with pensions of any sort Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 26/06/2012 13:28, Carole Skidmore wrote: > Hello - any help with the following will be greatly appreciated! > > GEORGE HENRY ANDREWS was a Marston man and much of his wretched life there > was addled with court convictions, mostly for drunken & riotous behaviour. > An exception was when he was 27 years old and charged with the theft of a > purse & 8 sovereigns from my husband's 3xGt-Grandma. I have more than a > passing interest in Geo Hry as he's in the same bloodline as 3xGt-Granddad. > > In his initial plea of innocence, Geo Hry claimed the sovereigns were his > pension which he'd collected from the Barracks. It is this pension I would > like to know more about. If he'd collected it from Cowley Barracks, can it > be assumed that he'd served with an Oxfordshire regiment? Or, could he have > served in any regiment or even have been a sailor and, so, would have gone > to Cowley Barracks as that was his nearest pension-payment office? > > I can't, though, see when Geo Hry could have served in the military or > completed enough years to qualify for a pension. What seems certain is that > he was born in 1854, orphaned from the age of 12 and lodging with our > 3xGt-Grandparents from the age of 17/18 through the next 10 years to his > court appearance. He was entered in the 1871 census as a Farm Labourer; > and in the 1881 as a Labourer. Could a man enlist and accrue service > towards a pension and yet live (and work?!) in civvy street in the 1860s to > 1880s? > > There is another curious thing - Geo Hry stated that, should he be > convicted, he would lose his pension. Were military pensions withheld or > withdrawn for bad behaviour or was it the case that, should a man be in > prison and therefore unable to collect it, he would forfeit his payments for > the duration? > > Or, could this have been some entirely different pension which he could go > and collect, say, from a Salvation Army Barracks? > > No scorn or surpise was expressed at Geo Hry's claim to being a pensioner - > or to a supposed entitlement of 8 gold sovereigns - but do you think this is > really just a (particularly well-pickled) red herring? > > With best wishes, > Carole > (in Devon, UK)

Hello Nivard, Many thanks for your speedy reply and all your interest and help. That's good to know that military service might still be a possibility but, like you, I haven't found any records through the ancestry-site I subscribe to. I found the case reported in 'Jackson's Oxford Journal' (Issue 6727) and also the 'Oxford Times', both dated 18 Feb 1882. 3xGt-Grandma was Amy (not, as reported, Emily) Cummins who said Geo Hry ANDREWS had been her lodger for the previous 9/10 years - which is why military service and pension seemed so unlikely to me. It's at Amy's address where Geo Hry was also found in the 1871 & 1881 censuses. I mentioned the Salvation Army as it was the only other sort of barracks that came to mind! I even wondered if the Sally Ann had been the forerunner to the Post Office counter for paying out pensions - military ones or otherwise! That is very interesting that military pensions could be forfeited. I think that this court-case was Geo Hry's 3rd, 4th or 5th - so was there a maximum number of times that you could be convicted before you lost your pension and, then, was it lost forever? By the time Geo Hry was in his mid-30s he'd been convicted 16 times. Do you know of any online sites which explains military pensions for post-1870? Again, many thanks, Best wishes, Carole