Thank you all for helping me track down my grandmother Ellen, she seems to be a mystery but Nivard had come up with a suggestion  for a possible brother (Henry William) and checking found names that I knew as a young girl what I need to do now is buy a marriage certificate to check for a Henry William to see if his fathers name was Henry  I knew we as a family use to visit Henry William in Birdcage Walk London his wife as we knew her was Aunt Maud and this is where Nivard came in by finding the family and a cousin i am still not sure if this is him  so must plod on. Regarding Oxford the 1911 census is correct with Ellen birthplace so........was she born Oxford or just a place they picked out Thank you all again My appreciation     Eileen ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Lankshear <ronlank@yahoo.com.au> To: mjflists@yahoo.co.uk; oxfordshire@rootsweb.com; Eileen Chapman <roneil@xtra.co.nz> Cc: Sent: Thursday, 27 September 2012 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [OXF] Ellen DAVIS born approx 1868 Oxford UK Eileen said a marriage to Henry(Harry) Hall has not been found. There is a birth certificate and baptism for Charles Henry Hall in 1903 confirming father was Henry a painter. BUT first marriage certificate not available to confirm her father, Presumably it would have said the same as second ie Henry a bootmaker and by then deceased. Ron Lankshear -Sydney NSW (from London-Shepherds Bush/Chiswick) try my links http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lankshear/ On 26/09/2012 11:20 PM, Mike in Droitwich wrote: > What does she gives as her father's name and occupation on her first > marriage certificate? > > Mike Fisher in Droitwich