Hi Wendy Nice to hear from you. So much happened yesterday, I hardly know where to begin, but my brick wall is knocked down! Firstly, when I checked the post, the birth certificate had arrived for my great grandmother, Eliza GARDNER. No father's name mentioned, as expected, but it says her maiden name was FLETCHER. The GARDNER's I found on the 1841 were the wrong family. I made a basic error and presumed too much. I have, however, now found the correct family and here they are: H0 107/889/14, Deddington, Philcock Street: GARDNER, Mary, 30, Y GARDNER, Elizabeth, 7, Y GARDNER, Sarah, 4, Y FLETCHER, James, 1, Y GARDNER, Mary, 9, Y and right next door: FLETCHER, William, 71, Cooper, Y BETTS, Elizabeth, 60, Y FLETCHER, Elizabeth 69, Y FLETCHER, Jane, 24, Y. Elizabeth aged 7 died 10 years later, and I think must have been their first child. It looks as though Sarah is another sibling, but I can't find her birth. James Fletcher is the son of Jane Fletcher, and I don't know who the Mary aged 9 is, since it's the bottom of the list, perhaps it's a visitor/other family member. Mary FLETCHER was c. in Chipping Norton 11 06 1810. (Mary not Mary Ann according to the IGI.) I have considered the Adderbury marriage in 1830, Robert Gardner to Mary Fletcher, but I'd like to check the Chipping Norton PR's to see if there is a marriage there. So if anyone has the Chippy PR's and wouldn't mind having a look, I'd be very grateful. Howard, I've wondered all along if Mary did actually marry a GARDNER, but if she didn't, why did she and thomas WILKINS wait so long to wed. I don't suppose she would have been informed of his death, but wonder in a transportation case, whether you could remarry after a certain time lapse if no contact was received? Judy in London very kindly found the transporation details for Richard GARDNER, he was in fact transported for 7 years in 1839 to NSW and died in Sydney General Hospital the year after. He was transported for a most curious case of perjury. Many thanks Lynne ---------------------------------------- > From: wendyking37@hotmail.com > To: oxfordshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:44:33 +0100 > Subject: Re: [OXF] Reintroducing my interests mainly SKUCE AND GARDNER - KEDONAUGH > > Howard & Lynne > > Mary Ann KEDONAUGH intrigued by this name so put just the last name into > family search and came up with NO hits and their phonetic suggestions were > all Germanic or Scandinavian. Similar search on ancestry again no hits - it > produced Keating variations and Keutenius (in London marriages) and the > wonderfully named 'Money Kathnasses' (her husband was a German born violin > maker). > > suspect the celebrant misheard or had his own phonetic spelling of some > other name. > > Only possibility I can come up with is Kennedy > > Wendy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Howard Fuller > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:21 AM > To: oxfordshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [OXF] Reintroducing my interests mainly SKUCE AND GARDNER > > Hello Lynne, > > Others have offered help with SKUCE but this may help with GARD(I/E)NER. > > You say Mary Ann (surname unknown) was the mother of your > g-grandmother. You want to know who Mary Ann's parents were. > > >From the 1841 Census you deduce that her (first) marriage was to > Robert GARDNER in about 1825/26, but you can't find this marriage. > > When, as a widow, she married Thomas WILKINS in Deddington on 12 May > 1865, the register says only that her father's name is William, that > he is a cooper, but it gives no surname. > > According to her age in the 1851 and 1871 censuses, Mary Ann was born > in about 1802-5 in Chipping Norton. Eight Mary Ann's were baptised at > Chipping Norton in 1800 to 1807. Two of these had father = William: > - 1801 Apr 26 - Mary Ann, dau. William & Mary KEDONAUGH > - 1805 May 12 - Mary Ann, dau. William & Ann BUSSWELL > > Unfortunately, I can't find who Mary Ann KEDONAUGH married - if she > did. But Mary Ann BUSSWELL married Samuel ENDALL at Chipping Norton on > 18 Jul 1826. > > Pehaps Robert GARDNER and his Mary Ann didn't actually get married? > > No real progress, I'm afraid! > > Howard > > > On 10/08/2011 19:27, lynne scaife wrote: > > > > Dear List > > > > I have been absent from the list for a while, of late mainly due to PC > > problems. But I'm back! > > > > I am researching mainly SKUCE in Deddington and Charlbury, but many other > > names that married into the line. > > > > I have recently reserected a family skeleton - the curious case of Mary > > Ann and Robert GARDNER. > > Mary is the mother of my great grandmother Eliza SKUCE nee GARDNER. It's > > now most certain that the man Mary Ann married is not the father of my > > great grand mother, or any of the subsequent children, and that Robert, > > was actually transported for goodness knows what! > > > > Mary Ann was born about 1805 in Chipping Norton according to 1841 and 1851 > > and other census' of Deddington. > > > > She married 1. Robert GARDNER about 1825/26. I can not find this marriage > > from the IGI, as there are no marriages coverage. > > > > I've found them on the 1841 which shows: > > Chipping Norton, Churchill Road, H0107/879/3 > > > > Robert GARDNER, 45, Labourer, "Y" (in county) > > Mary GARDNER, 35, Y > > Ann GARDNER, 14, Y > > Robert GARDNER, 12, Y > > John GARDNER, 7, Y > > Jane GARDNER, 5, Y > > Thomas GARDNER, 3, Y > > > > And 1851 shows: > > Deddington, Philcock Street > > > > Mary GARDNER, 45, 1806, House servant, Chipping Norton > > Elizabeth GARDNER, 8, Deddington, (note this should be Eliza not > > Elizabeth, my great grandmother) > > George GARDNER, 6, Deddington > > Emma GARDNER, 4, Deddington > > Harriet GARDNER, 1, Deddington > > All living in the household of Thomas Wilkins who she later married in > > 1865! > > > >> From previous kind help, and copies of PRs and a couple of certificates, > >> I know that Robert GARDNER was transported around about 1839-41, and on > >> the PR for Eliza's birth, who was a twin with Eleanor, (Eleanor died 11 > >> weeks later), bapt. 24 02 1843 in Deddington, it states that Robert is > >> not the father of these children. It's more than likely that Thomas > >> WILKINS is the father of Eleanor and Eliza, and several subsequent > >> children all born before she married him in 1865. > > > > There are several discrepancies queries re. the above, but mainly: > > > > 1. The date of his transportation. Pam in NZ kindly helped back in 2005 > > with information that Robert GARDNER, convict no. 28130 departed > > Portsmouth 14 07 1841 (6 weeks after the 1841 census carried out on 16th > > June 1841), on the Lord Goderich bound for Tasmania. The main problem > > with this, is when Isabella GARDNER AKA Louisa was bapt. 12 06 1853, Mary > > Ann states on the registration that father was transported 1839. That's a > > 2 year discrepancy. > > > > I am in contact now with the Archives Office of Tasmania to see if I can > > get any further with his transportation. > > > > 2. I am desperate to know who Mary Ann's parents were. When she married > > Thomas WILKINS in 1865, register says her father's name is William, but > > infuriatingly, she does not give a surname, only that he is a "cooper" > > (prof.) > > > > If any one can offer me any advice, I'll gladly take it and be eternally > > grateful. > > > > Kindest regards > > Lynne Scaife > > Tenerife > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > OFHS "Wills Library" : > > Can you submit any wills, please?http://wills.oxfordshirefhs.org.uk/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > OFHS "Wills Library" : > Can you submit any wills, please?http://wills.oxfordshirefhs.org.uk/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > OFHS "Wills Library" : > Can you submit any wills, please?http://wills.oxfordshirefhs.org.uk/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well, after 7 years of not hearing anything, you could have the person presumed dead so you were free to marry again. It happened quite a lot when one spouse was eg in Australia and the other in England. And I am sure too that the odd letter that might have come in that 7 years could be easily "lost" or "forgotten" if it helped to bring the seven years period to completion earlier. I think today when a person is missing - eg went fishing, car and clothes found but no body, rough sea,.. it takes seven years for the family to be able to claim them dead - and so get access to eg superannuation and insurance - and probably the will. Not a good place to be, waiting those seven years! Dawn (Melbourne Australia) -----Original Message----- From: oxfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:oxfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lynne scaife Sent: Tuesday, 16 August 2011 2:46 AM To: oxfordshire list Subject: Re: [OXF] Reintroducing my interests mainly SKUCE AND GARDNER - KEDONAUGH Hi Wendy Nice to hear from you. So much happened yesterday, I hardly know where to begin, but my brick wall is knocked down! Firstly, when I checked the post, the birth certificate had arrived for my great grandmother, Eliza GARDNER. No father's name mentioned, as expected, but it says her maiden name was FLETCHER. The GARDNER's I found on the 1841 were the wrong family. I made a basic error and presumed too much. I have, however, now found the correct family and here they are: H0 107/889/14, Deddington, Philcock Street: GARDNER, Mary, 30, Y GARDNER, Elizabeth, 7, Y GARDNER, Sarah, 4, Y FLETCHER, James, 1, Y GARDNER, Mary, 9, Y and right next door: FLETCHER, William, 71, Cooper, Y BETTS, Elizabeth, 60, Y FLETCHER, Elizabeth 69, Y FLETCHER, Jane, 24, Y. Elizabeth aged 7 died 10 years later, and I think must have been their first child. It looks as though Sarah is another sibling, but I can't find her birth. James Fletcher is the son of Jane Fletcher, and I don't know who the Mary aged 9 is, since it's the bottom of the list, perhaps it's a visitor/other family member. Mary FLETCHER was c. in Chipping Norton 11 06 1810. (Mary not Mary Ann according to the IGI.) I have considered the Adderbury marriage in 1830, Robert Gardner to Mary Fletcher, but I'd like to check the Chipping Norton PR's to see if there is a marriage there. So if anyone has the Chippy PR's and wouldn't mind having a look, I'd be very grateful. Howard, I've wondered all along if Mary did actually marry a GARDNER, but if she didn't, why did she and thomas WILKINS wait so long to wed. I don't suppose she would have been informed of his death, but wonder in a transportation case, whether you could remarry after a certain time lapse if no contact was received? Judy in London very kindly found the transporation details for Richard GARDNER, he was in fact transported for 7 years in 1839 to NSW and died in Sydney General Hospital the year after. He was transported for a most curious case of perjury. Many thanks Lynne ---------------------------------------- > From: wendyking37@hotmail.com > To: oxfordshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:44:33 +0100 > Subject: Re: [OXF] Reintroducing my interests mainly SKUCE AND GARDNER - KEDONAUGH > > Howard & Lynne > > Mary Ann KEDONAUGH intrigued by this name so put just the last name into > family search and came up with NO hits and their phonetic suggestions were > all Germanic or Scandinavian. Similar search on ancestry again no hits - it > produced Keating variations and Keutenius (in London marriages) and the > wonderfully named 'Money Kathnasses' (her husband was a German born violin > maker). > > suspect the celebrant misheard or had his own phonetic spelling of some > other name. > > Only possibility I can come up with is Kennedy > > Wendy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Howard Fuller > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:21 AM > To: oxfordshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [OXF] Reintroducing my interests mainly SKUCE AND GARDNER > > Hello Lynne, > > Others have offered help with SKUCE but this may help with GARD(I/E)NER. > > You say Mary Ann (surname unknown) was the mother of your > g-grandmother. You want to know who Mary Ann's parents were. > > >From the 1841 Census you deduce that her (first) marriage was to > Robert GARDNER in about 1825/26, but you can't find this marriage. > > When, as a widow, she married Thomas WILKINS in Deddington on 12 May > 1865, the register says only that her father's name is William, that > he is a cooper, but it gives no surname. > > According to her age in the 1851 and 1871 censuses, Mary Ann was born > in about 1802-5 in Chipping Norton. Eight Mary Ann's were baptised at > Chipping Norton in 1800 to 1807. Two of these had father = William: > - 1801 Apr 26 - Mary Ann, dau. William & Mary KEDONAUGH > - 1805 May 12 - Mary Ann, dau. William & Ann BUSSWELL > > Unfortunately, I can't find who Mary Ann KEDONAUGH married - if she > did. But Mary Ann BUSSWELL married Samuel ENDALL at Chipping Norton on > 18 Jul 1826. > > Pehaps Robert GARDNER and his Mary Ann didn't actually get married? > > No real progress, I'm afraid! > > Howard > > > On 10/08/2011 19:27, lynne scaife wrote: > > > > Dear List > > > > I have been absent from the list for a while, of late mainly due to PC > > problems. But I'm back! > > > > I am researching mainly SKUCE in Deddington and Charlbury, but many other > > names that married into the line. > > > > I have recently reserected a family skeleton - the curious case of Mary > > Ann and Robert GARDNER. > > Mary is the mother of my great grandmother Eliza SKUCE nee GARDNER. It's > > now most certain that the man Mary Ann married is not the father of my > > great grand mother, or any of the subsequent children, and that Robert, > > was actually transported for goodness knows what! > > > > Mary Ann was born about 1805 in Chipping Norton according to 1841 and 1851 > > and other census' of Deddington. > > > > She married 1. Robert GARDNER about 1825/26. I can not find this marriage > > from the IGI, as there are no marriages coverage. > > > > I've found them on the 1841 which shows: > > Chipping Norton, Churchill Road, H0107/879/3 > > > > Robert GARDNER, 45, Labourer, "Y" (in county) > > Mary GARDNER, 35, Y > > Ann GARDNER, 14, Y > > Robert GARDNER, 12, Y > > John GARDNER, 7, Y > > Jane GARDNER, 5, Y > > Thomas GARDNER, 3, Y > > > > And 1851 shows: > > Deddington, Philcock Street > > > > Mary GARDNER, 45, 1806, House servant, Chipping Norton > > Elizabeth GARDNER, 8, Deddington, (note this should be Eliza not > > Elizabeth, my great grandmother) > > George GARDNER, 6, Deddington > > Emma GARDNER, 4, Deddington > > Harriet GARDNER, 1, Deddington > > All living in the household of Thomas Wilkins who she later married in > > 1865! > > > >> From previous kind help, and copies of PRs and a couple of certificates, > >> I know that Robert GARDNER was transported around about 1839-41, and on > >> the PR for Eliza's birth, who was a twin with Eleanor, (Eleanor died 11 > >> weeks later), bapt. 24 02 1843 in Deddington, it states that Robert is > >> not the father of these children. It's more than likely that Thomas > >> WILKINS is the father of Eleanor and Eliza, and several subsequent > >> children all born before she married him in 1865. > > > > There are several discrepancies queries re. the above, but mainly: > > > > 1. The date of his transportation. Pam in NZ kindly helped back in 2005 > > with information that Robert GARDNER, convict no. 28130 departed > > Portsmouth 14 07 1841 (6 weeks after the 1841 census carried out on 16th > > June 1841), on the Lord Goderich bound for Tasmania. The main problem > > with this, is when Isabella GARDNER AKA Louisa was bapt. 12 06 1853, Mary > > Ann states on the registration that father was transported 1839. That's a > > 2 year discrepancy. > > > > I am in contact now with the Archives Office of Tasmania to see if I can > > get any further with his transportation. > > > > 2. I am desperate to know who Mary Ann's parents were. When she married > > Thomas WILKINS in 1865, register says her father's name is William, but > > infuriatingly, she does not give a surname, only that he is a "cooper" > > (prof.) > > > > If any one can offer me any advice, I'll gladly take it and be eternally > > grateful. > > > > Kindest regards > > Lynne Scaife > > Tenerife > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > OFHS "Wills Library" : > > Can you submit any wills, please?http://wills.oxfordshirefhs.org.uk/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > OFHS "Wills Library" : > Can you submit any wills, please?http://wills.oxfordshirefhs.org.uk/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > OFHS "Wills Library" : > Can you submit any wills, please?http://wills.oxfordshirefhs.org.uk/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OFHS "Wills Library" : Can you submit any wills, please? http://wills.oxfordshirefhs.org.uk/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6380 (20110815) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com