To celebrate my father's 85th birthday on 5th November I have written a small book. It traces over eight centuries the story of my family's direct paternal lineage and includes their siblings at each generation. I would be most grateful if some people could proof read it for any silly mistakes. The length is about 25,000 words and it will be ready sometime next week. Hopefully any proof reader will find it of interest. It is in a Word document at present and therefore would be easy to e-mail. The book's timing may be apt. A few weeks ago my father was ill and I feared he would not make it to his next birthday. But he has made a full recovery although he is still frail as he was beforehand. However yesterday he was told he has the first signs of macular degeneration in his eyes. Any help would be appreciated. Alan Savin

This is a reminder that this society's Open Day will again be held at The Marlborough School just outside Woodstock on Saturday 6 October 2012. The Open Day will feature the usual assortment of visiting Societies, publishers, dealers in second hand books and postcards, and the like. Our own society's range of transcripts and search services will be available for consultation, whilst we will also be manning a beginners' helpdesk. Additionally, there will be computing demonstrations, which will give advice on such things as which genealogical software package to choose, and the use of the internet in family history. Admission to the Open Day is free, as is the on-site car park. Light refreshments will be on sale at reasonable prices. Further details can be found at :- http://www.ofhs.org.uk/OpenDay.html Any queries, please let me know. Paul Gaskell Publicity Officer Oxfordshire Family History Society Website : www.ofhs.org.uk

Karen I have an interest in the HUNT family as one of my ancestors married an Alis or Alice HUNT on 12 October 1705 (Quaker Marriage) possibly at Radway in Warwickshire, my ancestor was a John JUDD baptised 2 March 1675 at Harbury. Whilst these details don't directly assist with your enquiry it might be worth your while expanding the area of your search as the HUNT family appear in several locations including Radway, and possible connections to not only Stratford on Avon but Foleshill in Coventry. Have you seen "A History of Radway" as this might help as well. David Judd -----Original Message----- From: oxfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:oxfordshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of The Hunt Family Sent: 30 September 2012 15:22 To: oxfordshire@rootsweb.com Subject: [OXF] Ann Maria Hunt of Sibford Gower, Oxfordshire Hello List I am still looking for my elusive ancestor Ann Maria Hunt. Her baptism shows that she was born illegitimately to Sarah Hunt in 1824 at Sibford Gower. In 1848 she was in Banbury Workhouse where she gave birth to an illegitimate son (I have researched his life from start to finish with no mention of his mother). In the census I have found a couple of possibles in 1841 and in 1851 she is a Cook working for the surgeon/GP Mr Grimbly in High Street, Banbury. She then disappears without trace. With Ann Hunt being such a common name and Banbury being on the border of three different counties there are numerous marriage and death entries in the GRO index. Even if I did locate a possible marriage certificate I would not be able to confirm it was correct as I don't know who her father was. I have looked at the 1861 census for any Anns born in Sibford and the ones I have come across I have cross referenced in other census years confirming that none of them are her. I have been looking for her on and off for some ten years now and wonder if a fresh eye might possibly come across something I have missed. Kind regards Karen Hunt (Warwick UK) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. See www.ofhs.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all I expect to be at the Open Day on Saturday, with (I'm told) a table to sit at, so if anyone out there has trouble with wills (or related documents) and would like help, or advice, or just someone to talk to about them, bring 'em along. I'll be delighted to help if I can. Dave Beames Wills coordinator

In a message dated 30/09/2012 17:54:00 GMT Daylight Time, michaelcoomber@aol.com writes: >From Jackson's Oxford Journal, Saturday, August 30, 1800. Printed by and for W. DAWSON , J. GROSVENOR , and W. HALL, and sold at the Printing Office, High Street, Oxford. CHEQUER INN, HIGH STREET, OXFORD.A. HUGHES most respectfully begs Leave to acquaint his Friends, Customers of the House, Travellers, and the Public in general, that he has taken and entered on the above INN, and humbly solicits the Favours of their Countenance and Support; assuring them, that his Liquors of all Kinds are of the first Quality, that his Stabling is roomy and complete, and that his Charges in every Respect shall be reasonable; by which, and a constant Endeavour to please, he hopes to meet with that Encouragement it will at all Times be his Wish to merit. Mick And now, more than two-hundred years later, the Chequers remains one of the best pubs on Oxford's High Street :- http://www.nicholsonspubs.co.uk/thechequersoxford/ Paul

Hello List I am still looking for my elusive ancestor Ann Maria Hunt. Her baptism shows that she was born illegitimately to Sarah Hunt in 1824 at Sibford Gower. In 1848 she was in Banbury Workhouse where she gave birth to an illegitimate son (I have researched his life from start to finish with no mention of his mother). In the census I have found a couple of possibles in 1841 and in 1851 she is a Cook working for the surgeon/GP Mr Grimbly in High Street, Banbury. She then disappears without trace. With Ann Hunt being such a common name and Banbury being on the border of three different counties there are numerous marriage and death entries in the GRO index. Even if I did locate a possible marriage certificate I would not be able to confirm it was correct as I don't know who her father was. I have looked at the 1861 census for any Anns born in Sibford and the ones I have come across I have cross referenced in other census years confirming that none of them are her. I have been looking for her on and off for some ten years now and wonder if a fresh eye might possibly come across something I have missed. Kind regards Karen Hunt (Warwick UK)

>From Jackson's Oxford Journal, Saturday, August 30, 1800. Printed by and for W. DAWSON , J. GROSVENOR , and W. HALL , and sold at the Printing Office, High Street, Oxford. CHEQUER INN, HIGH STREET, OXFORD.A. HUGHES most respectfully begs Leave to acquaint his Friends, Customers of the House, Travellers, and the Public in general, that he has taken and entered on the above INN, and humbly solicits the Favours of their Countenance and Support; assuring them, that his Liquors of all Kinds are of the first Quality, that his Stabling is roomy and complete, and that his Charges in every Respect shall be reasonable; by which, and a constant Endeavour to please, he hopes to meet with that Encouragement it will at all Times be his Wish to merit.

Thank you all for helping me track down my grandmother Ellen, she seems to be a mystery but Nivard had come up with a suggestion  for a possible brother (Henry William) and checking found names that I knew as a young girl what I need to do now is buy a marriage certificate to check for a Henry William to see if his fathers name was Henry  I knew we as a family use to visit Henry William in Birdcage Walk London his wife as we knew her was Aunt Maud and this is where Nivard came in by finding the family and a cousin i am still not sure if this is him  so must plod on. Regarding Oxford the 1911 census is correct with Ellen birthplace so........was she born Oxford or just a place they picked out Thank you all again My appreciation     Eileen ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Lankshear <ronlank@yahoo.com.au> To: mjflists@yahoo.co.uk; oxfordshire@rootsweb.com; Eileen Chapman <roneil@xtra.co.nz> Cc: Sent: Thursday, 27 September 2012 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [OXF] Ellen DAVIS born approx 1868 Oxford UK Eileen said a marriage to Henry(Harry) Hall has not been found. There is a birth certificate and baptism for Charles Henry Hall in 1903 confirming father was Henry a painter. BUT first marriage certificate not available to confirm her father, Presumably it would have said the same as second ie Henry a bootmaker and by then deceased. Ron Lankshear -Sydney NSW (from London-Shepherds Bush/Chiswick) try my links http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lankshear/ On 26/09/2012 11:20 PM, Mike in Droitwich wrote: > What does she gives as her father's name and occupation on her first > marriage certificate? > > Mike Fisher in Droitwich

Eileen said a marriage to Henry(Harry) Hall has not been found. There is a birth certificate and baptism for Charles Henry Hall in 1903 confirming father was Henry a painter. BUT first marriage certificate not available to confirm her father, Presumably it would have said the same as second ie Henry a bootmaker and by then deceased. Ron Lankshear -Sydney NSW (from London-Shepherds Bush/Chiswick) try my links http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lankshear/ On 26/09/2012 11:20 PM, Mike in Droitwich wrote: > What does she gives as her father's name and occupation on her first > marriage certificate? > > Mike Fisher in Droitwich

So there was no first marriage ? My wife's great grandmother registered three births giving the father's surname as her surname, they married just before the birth of the fourth child when the first child was fourteen years old. Mike Fisher in Droitwich my family tree http://mjfisher.tribalpages.com On 27/09/2012 02:05, Ron Lankshear wrote: > > Eileen said a marriage to Henry(Harry) Hall has not been found. > There is a birth certificate and baptism for Charles Henry Hall in 1903 > confirming father was Henry a painter. > BUT first marriage certificate not available to confirm her father, > Presumably it would have said the same as second ie Henry a bootmaker > and by then deceased. > > Ron Lankshear -Sydney NSW (from London-Shepherds Bush/Chiswick)

Hi all Another 33 wills (etc) have been added as of 26 Sep, and can be found (as usual) at http://wills.oxfordshirefhs.org.uk/index.html Testator surnames include: BROWN BRUSH COMIN (CUMMING) DAY DEAVON DOBINSON FIRTH FLEXNEY GREENWOOD HALL HILL KNIGHT LEVERIDGE LUCAS PERROTT PEVERILL ROSS (ROSE) SABYNE SPARROW TOWNSEND WELCHMAN Dave Beames Coordinator

Hi Eileen What does she gives as her father's name and occupation on her first marriage certificate? Mike Fisher in Droitwich my family tree http://mjfisher.tribalpages.com On 25/09/2012 06:59, Eileen Chapman wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: Eileen Chapman > To: Oxfordshire@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 11:24 PM > Subject: Ellen Davis > > Good morning from New Zealand, > I have been researching my family tree for approx 25 years and have come at a dead end on my grandmother Ellen Davis, she was born approx 1868 in Oxford.she is on the 1891 to 1911 census as being born there also my father mentioned it to me. > On her second marriage certificate it gives her father's name as Henry/Harry Davis boot-maker dec: > I have no idea what part of Oxford she was born. > She died 1948 London under the name of Helen (by father),if their is anyone that can help then I can go further knowing her mothers name would help > Thanking you > > Eileen > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. > > See www.ofhs.org.uk > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Peter - Following Wendy King's suggestion, you said: >> I looked up the Heritage Search as suggested and it seems that Alfred >> Joy wrote a dairy,a copy of which is held by Oxford Heritage >> This could perhaps answer my query as to what happened to the family >> tailoring business in that he has given his reason for moving from >> Oxford to Melbourne. >> As I live in Derbyshire and as such it is difficult for me to look at >> this diary is there some kind soul out there who could have a look for >> me? My husband looked at this document yesterday. He says: Author: JOY, Alfred Title: Copy of Alfred JOY's diary written on his voyage from London and during his early settlement in Melbourne 1853 - 1854 Publisher: S.l: s.n. 1853-1854 Location: Oxfordshire History Centre, St. Lukes, Cowley, Oxford Ref. PA Pamphlets (strongroom) OXFO/325.2 Barcode: 306378903 The document in the Oxfordshire History Centre is a typescript transcription of Alfred JOY's diary. There is no indication of who made the transcription or where the original is. Alfred JOY (31 years), described as "gentleman", and his wife, Henrietta (24 years), were cabin passengers on the barque "Thomas Harrison" , which sailed from Gravesend on the 22nd April 1853 to Melbourne, arriving on the 22nd Sep. 1853, after "a tedious journey of 155 days". The diary speaks almost entirely about the details of the voyage - mostly sea-sickness and disasters. Letters exchanged with "Mother", "Tom", "William", "Jane", "Floyd", "Mr. Miles", "Mrs. Solari". Henrietta has a baby boy on 4th October 1853, name not given. Alfred buys some land in North Melbourne on 18th October, and starts building a house. Alfred gets a job working for Mr. BLISS in his Office, no explanation as to the nature of the business. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ See Wendy King's post with more detail of Mr BLISS & his business. Wendy

Peter Afraid you hit the same stumbling block with the Workhouse as I did when looking for my great grandfather's sisters - no record of admissions etc. exist for this period or indeed for much of the century. Had found the initials of all those I knew about plus an extra child. Wendy Archer was able to help me identify her birth but the search dead ended there until I literally tripped across on someone else's tree on Ancestry. I hope that at some point you get as lucky as I did. best wishes Wendy -----Original Message----- From: D Taylor Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 11:08 AM To: oxfordshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OXF] Henry Hicks & Thomas Joy 1850s Oxford Morning Wendy, I made a mistake on Henry Hicks' death certificate it was 1894 not 1893. The certificate gives his date and place of death as 15th Jan 1894 at Oxford Workhouse,Cowley Road His age was 78 and cause of death "Natural Decay" It would seem that he didn't have a health problem,just the opposite in fact to reach such a ripe old age despite spending some 30 odd years in the workhouse. I'm aware of his wife going to Wales as one of his sons who went with his mother,William Henry Hicks was my great grandfather with one of William Henry's daughters,Louisa Mary,my maternal grand mother. I'm also aware of his inheritance and thought this could have been the reason for his down fall,an unwise investment or an addiction to drink. Unfortunately I've been unable to find out when he entered the work house,only that it was some time between the 1851 and 1861 census returns. Regards Peter On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 9:02 PM, Wendy King <wendyking37@hotmail.com> wrote: > Peter > > what does the death certificate give as his cause of death? The only > reason > I can think of for him being in the Workhouse for so long is that he had > some kind of long term health problem or disability which is why I looked > in > the newspapers to see if I could find a report of an accident that might > have incapacitated him. > > I think I mentioned the rootsweb chat stream (google: henry hicks grocer > oxford and the header is Workhouse death and burial) where someone was > enquiring about his burial place - this also refers to his wife returning > to Wales with the children. Micah the author of the original query also > does > not know why he spent so long in the Workhouse. > > Do you have Ancestry access? There are a couple family trees on there with > the same story about his wife and children. She 'married' bigamously James > BRIMBLE in 1868. Both have attached a photo Henry & Eliza and one has an > extract apparently from his probate record dated March 1894 -this just > says > to Eliza £235 (about £20,000 in today's money according to one web site). > > Wendy > > -----Original Message----- > From: D Taylor > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 3:16 PM > To: oxfordshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [OXF] Henry Hicks & Thomas Joy 1850s Oxford > > Wendy, > Many thanks for that. > I do have access to on line British Library 19th century newspaper > through my Lancashire Library membership and have found and copied the > references you have given me. > Regarding Henry Hicks,I have a copy of his death certificate and he > died in the workhouse in 1893 having been an inmate for the last 30 > odd years of his life. > The mystery being the reason for his downfall which as yet I have been > unable to resolve. > Peter > > On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Wendy King <wendyking37@hotmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Peter does your local library give you access on line to the British >> Library 19th Century Newspapers? >> >> Have had a browse through Jackson's Oxford Journal and cannot find an >> obituary for Henry Hicks but did find couple of items for Alfred and >> Thomas >> Joy: >> >> text as in article: >> >> Notice is hereby given that the partnership heretofore existing between >> us >> the undersigned Thomas Joy and Alfred Joy' of the City of Oxford, >> carrying >> on the business or trade of tailors and robe makers under the firm >> "Thomas >> and Alfred Joy", was, as and from the 31 day of December last, dissolved >> by >> mutual consent dated first day of February 1853. Thomas Joy, Alfred Joy. >> >> extract from article: a notice in 1850 listed the latest local >> business's >> subscriptions to fund Wash Houses and Public Baths in Oxford - Thomas and >> Alfred Joy contributed £1 1s. >> >> >> Wendy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bob Cowley >> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:17 PM >> To: oxfordshire@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [OXF] Henry Hicks & Thomas Joy 1850s Oxford >> >> There is still of course one Hicks wholesale greengrocery business in >> Oxford. (Unless my memory is playing tricks, I think there were two >> retail >> shops until about 20 years ago.) >> >> Cheers, >> >> Bob Cowley >> --------------- >> >> On Sep 16 2012, D Taylor wrote: >> >>>I wonder if some one can shed some light onto a mystery concerning two >>>branches of my family living in Oxford between the 1851 and 1861 >>>census returns? >>> >>>The first is a Henry Hicks whose father, Paul Hicks a grocer in >>>Oxford, died in 1839 leaving his business to him. >>>This is reflected in the 1841 and 1851 census returns. >>>The 1861 census has him in the workhouse where he spent the rest of >>>his life until his death in1893. >>> >>>The second concerns Henry Hicks' cousin, Thomas Joy,whose father >>>William Joy (Henry Hicks' uncle) died in 1847. >>>William Joy was a tailor and son Thomas,together with his brother >>>Alfred,took over the family business. >>>This is reflected in the 1851 census. >>>The 1861 census has Thomas,no longer a tailor,living in London. >>>The 1871 census has him as a temporary clerk at a Post Office in London. >>>No sign of Alfred >>> >>>Is it just a coincidence that these two businesses failed or did >>>something happen in Oxford during this period to cause a down turn in >>>the economy? >>>The effects of the Crimea War perhaps? >>> >>>Peter Taylor >>>Glossop >>>Derbyshire >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. >>> >>> See www.ofhs.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from >>> the list, please send an email to OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with >>> the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of >>> the message >> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. >> >> See www.ofhs.org.uk >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. >> >> See www.ofhs.org.uk >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. > > See www.ofhs.org.uk > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. > > See www.ofhs.org.uk > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. See www.ofhs.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Morning Wendy, I made a mistake on Henry Hicks' death certificate it was 1894 not 1893. The certificate gives his date and place of death as 15th Jan 1894 at Oxford Workhouse,Cowley Road His age was 78 and cause of death "Natural Decay" It would seem that he didn't have a health problem,just the opposite in fact to reach such a ripe old age despite spending some 30 odd years in the workhouse. I'm aware of his wife going to Wales as one of his sons who went with his mother,William Henry Hicks was my great grandfather with one of William Henry's daughters,Louisa Mary,my maternal grand mother. I'm also aware of his inheritance and thought this could have been the reason for his down fall,an unwise investment or an addiction to drink. Unfortunately I've been unable to find out when he entered the work house,only that it was some time between the 1851 and 1861 census returns. Regards Peter On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 9:02 PM, Wendy King <wendyking37@hotmail.com> wrote: > Peter > > what does the death certificate give as his cause of death? The only reason > I can think of for him being in the Workhouse for so long is that he had > some kind of long term health problem or disability which is why I looked in > the newspapers to see if I could find a report of an accident that might > have incapacitated him. > > I think I mentioned the rootsweb chat stream (google: henry hicks grocer > oxford and the header is Workhouse death and burial) where someone was > enquiring about his burial place - this also refers to his wife returning > to Wales with the children. Micah the author of the original query also does > not know why he spent so long in the Workhouse. > > Do you have Ancestry access? There are a couple family trees on there with > the same story about his wife and children. She 'married' bigamously James > BRIMBLE in 1868. Both have attached a photo Henry & Eliza and one has an > extract apparently from his probate record dated March 1894 -this just says > to Eliza £235 (about £20,000 in today's money according to one web site). > > Wendy > > -----Original Message----- > From: D Taylor > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 3:16 PM > To: oxfordshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [OXF] Henry Hicks & Thomas Joy 1850s Oxford > > Wendy, > Many thanks for that. > I do have access to on line British Library 19th century newspaper > through my Lancashire Library membership and have found and copied the > references you have given me. > Regarding Henry Hicks,I have a copy of his death certificate and he > died in the workhouse in 1893 having been an inmate for the last 30 > odd years of his life. > The mystery being the reason for his downfall which as yet I have been > unable to resolve. > Peter > > On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Wendy King <wendyking37@hotmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Peter does your local library give you access on line to the British >> Library 19th Century Newspapers? >> >> Have had a browse through Jackson's Oxford Journal and cannot find an >> obituary for Henry Hicks but did find couple of items for Alfred and >> Thomas >> Joy: >> >> text as in article: >> >> Notice is hereby given that the partnership heretofore existing between us >> the undersigned Thomas Joy and Alfred Joy' of the City of Oxford, carrying >> on the business or trade of tailors and robe makers under the firm "Thomas >> and Alfred Joy", was, as and from the 31 day of December last, dissolved >> by >> mutual consent dated first day of February 1853. Thomas Joy, Alfred Joy. >> >> extract from article: a notice in 1850 listed the latest local business's >> subscriptions to fund Wash Houses and Public Baths in Oxford - Thomas and >> Alfred Joy contributed £1 1s. >> >> >> Wendy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bob Cowley >> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:17 PM >> To: oxfordshire@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [OXF] Henry Hicks & Thomas Joy 1850s Oxford >> >> There is still of course one Hicks wholesale greengrocery business in >> Oxford. (Unless my memory is playing tricks, I think there were two retail >> shops until about 20 years ago.) >> >> Cheers, >> >> Bob Cowley >> --------------- >> >> On Sep 16 2012, D Taylor wrote: >> >>>I wonder if some one can shed some light onto a mystery concerning two >>>branches of my family living in Oxford between the 1851 and 1861 >>>census returns? >>> >>>The first is a Henry Hicks whose father, Paul Hicks a grocer in >>>Oxford, died in 1839 leaving his business to him. >>>This is reflected in the 1841 and 1851 census returns. >>>The 1861 census has him in the workhouse where he spent the rest of >>>his life until his death in1893. >>> >>>The second concerns Henry Hicks' cousin, Thomas Joy,whose father >>>William Joy (Henry Hicks' uncle) died in 1847. >>>William Joy was a tailor and son Thomas,together with his brother >>>Alfred,took over the family business. >>>This is reflected in the 1851 census. >>>The 1861 census has Thomas,no longer a tailor,living in London. >>>The 1871 census has him as a temporary clerk at a Post Office in London. >>>No sign of Alfred >>> >>>Is it just a coincidence that these two businesses failed or did >>>something happen in Oxford during this period to cause a down turn in >>>the economy? >>>The effects of the Crimea War perhaps? >>> >>>Peter Taylor >>>Glossop >>>Derbyshire >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. >>> >>> See www.ofhs.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from >>> the list, please send an email to OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with >>> the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of >>> the message >> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. >> >> See www.ofhs.org.uk >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. >> >> See www.ofhs.org.uk >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. > > See www.ofhs.org.uk > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. > > See www.ofhs.org.uk > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> I can find no Henry or Harry DAVIS as a Boot or Shoe maker living in > Oxfordshire at any time There is just one - in the Oxford City Gaol in 1871, Henry Davis, aged 23 shoemaker, unmarried - born in Stockwell, Surrey and no visible Ellen or Helen born in 1868 ish to a Henry. Perhaps he rather was the father but didn't stay around to take responsibility. This has all the hallmarks of a cover up as far as names go, but probably the child was told her actual father's name when she was about to get married. EVE Author of The McLaughlin Guides for Family Historians Secretary, Bucks Genealogical Society

Ellen and Helen are traditionally interchangeable, Helen usually the formal form....Heather in sunny Dunedin New Zealand --- On Wed, 26/9/12, Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> wrote: > From: Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> > Subject: Re: [OXF] Ellen DAVIS born approx 1868 Oxford UK > To: oxfordshire@rootsweb.com > Date: Wednesday, 26, September, 2012, 5:26 AM > Hi Eileen > > It may help others to help you if you tell us her name as > found in the > census you have and what name she died under > > Preferably with the census reference > > Ah I see you have posted on the same subject before > > <http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/oxfordshire/2009-01/1231451641> > > Are those details still correct (bar the 1911 address which > is 3 Braemar > Road Acton) > > I notice in all three cases she is enumerated as born Oxford > (not > Oxfordshire although that could be what was meant) > > The ages are all over the place, that is not *that* unusual, > however how > do you know the 1891 & 1901 are actually for your Ellen > / Helen ? > > I wonder how reliable your witness who knew the Harry/Henry > HALL was, > could they have simply been trying to save your mothers > feelings > perhaps? I see George has manipulated the marriage years to > cover > > I wonder if HALL is a clue and that was her birth name ? > > I can find no Henry or Harry DAVIS as a Boot or Shoe maker > living in > Oxfordshire at any time > > Did you say your fathers birth certificate states his mother > as Ellen > HALL formerly DAVIS and was his father named, who registered > the birth, > likewise was the baptism recorded in full with both parents > ? > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > Good morning from New Zealand, I have been researching > my family tree > > for approx 25 years and have come at a dead end on my > grandmother > > Ellen Davis, she was born approx 1868 in Oxford.she is > on the 1891 to > > 1911 census as being born there also my father > mentioned it to me. On > > her second marriage certificate it gives her father's > name as > > Henry/Harry Davis boot-maker dec: I have no idea what > part of Oxford > > she was born. She died 1948 London under the name of > Helen (by > > father),if their is anyone that can help then I can go > further > > knowing her mothers name would help Thanking you > > > > Eileen > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. > > See www.ofhs.org.uk > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

Peter what does the death certificate give as his cause of death? The only reason I can think of for him being in the Workhouse for so long is that he had some kind of long term health problem or disability which is why I looked in the newspapers to see if I could find a report of an accident that might have incapacitated him. I think I mentioned the rootsweb chat stream (google: henry hicks grocer oxford and the header is Workhouse death and burial) where someone was enquiring about his burial place - this also refers to his wife returning to Wales with the children. Micah the author of the original query also does not know why he spent so long in the Workhouse. Do you have Ancestry access? There are a couple family trees on there with the same story about his wife and children. She 'married' bigamously James BRIMBLE in 1868. Both have attached a photo Henry & Eliza and one has an extract apparently from his probate record dated March 1894 -this just says to Eliza £235 (about £20,000 in today's money according to one web site). Wendy -----Original Message----- From: D Taylor Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 3:16 PM To: oxfordshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OXF] Henry Hicks & Thomas Joy 1850s Oxford Wendy, Many thanks for that. I do have access to on line British Library 19th century newspaper through my Lancashire Library membership and have found and copied the references you have given me. Regarding Henry Hicks,I have a copy of his death certificate and he died in the workhouse in 1893 having been an inmate for the last 30 odd years of his life. The mystery being the reason for his downfall which as yet I have been unable to resolve. Peter On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Wendy King <wendyking37@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Peter does your local library give you access on line to the British > Library 19th Century Newspapers? > > Have had a browse through Jackson's Oxford Journal and cannot find an > obituary for Henry Hicks but did find couple of items for Alfred and > Thomas > Joy: > > text as in article: > > Notice is hereby given that the partnership heretofore existing between us > the undersigned Thomas Joy and Alfred Joy' of the City of Oxford, carrying > on the business or trade of tailors and robe makers under the firm "Thomas > and Alfred Joy", was, as and from the 31 day of December last, dissolved > by > mutual consent dated first day of February 1853. Thomas Joy, Alfred Joy. > > extract from article: a notice in 1850 listed the latest local business's > subscriptions to fund Wash Houses and Public Baths in Oxford - Thomas and > Alfred Joy contributed £1 1s. > > > Wendy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Cowley > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:17 PM > To: oxfordshire@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [OXF] Henry Hicks & Thomas Joy 1850s Oxford > > There is still of course one Hicks wholesale greengrocery business in > Oxford. (Unless my memory is playing tricks, I think there were two retail > shops until about 20 years ago.) > > Cheers, > > Bob Cowley > --------------- > > On Sep 16 2012, D Taylor wrote: > >>I wonder if some one can shed some light onto a mystery concerning two >>branches of my family living in Oxford between the 1851 and 1861 >>census returns? >> >>The first is a Henry Hicks whose father, Paul Hicks a grocer in >>Oxford, died in 1839 leaving his business to him. >>This is reflected in the 1841 and 1851 census returns. >>The 1861 census has him in the workhouse where he spent the rest of >>his life until his death in1893. >> >>The second concerns Henry Hicks' cousin, Thomas Joy,whose father >>William Joy (Henry Hicks' uncle) died in 1847. >>William Joy was a tailor and son Thomas,together with his brother >>Alfred,took over the family business. >>This is reflected in the 1851 census. >>The 1861 census has Thomas,no longer a tailor,living in London. >>The 1871 census has him as a temporary clerk at a Post Office in London. >>No sign of Alfred >> >>Is it just a coincidence that these two businesses failed or did >>something happen in Oxford during this period to cause a down turn in >>the economy? >>The effects of the Crimea War perhaps? >> >>Peter Taylor >>Glossop >>Derbyshire >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. >> >> See www.ofhs.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from >> the list, please send an email to OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with >> the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of >> the message > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. > > See www.ofhs.org.uk > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. > > See www.ofhs.org.uk > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OXFORDSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OFHS Open Day - 6 October at Woodstock. 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Hi Eileen It may help others to help you if you tell us her name as found in the census you have and what name she died under Preferably with the census reference Ah I see you have posted on the same subject before <http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/oxfordshire/2009-01/1231451641> Are those details still correct (bar the 1911 address which is 3 Braemar Road Acton) I notice in all three cases she is enumerated as born Oxford (not Oxfordshire although that could be what was meant) The ages are all over the place, that is not *that* unusual, however how do you know the 1891 & 1901 are actually for your Ellen / Helen ? I wonder how reliable your witness who knew the Harry/Henry HALL was, could they have simply been trying to save your mothers feelings perhaps? I see George has manipulated the marriage years to cover I wonder if HALL is a clue and that was her birth name ? I can find no Henry or Harry DAVIS as a Boot or Shoe maker living in Oxfordshire at any time Did you say your fathers birth certificate states his mother as Ellen HALL formerly DAVIS and was his father named, who registered the birth, likewise was the baptism recorded in full with both parents ? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Good morning from New Zealand, I have been researching my family tree > for approx 25 years and have come at a dead end on my grandmother > Ellen Davis, she was born approx 1868 in Oxford.she is on the 1891 to > 1911 census as being born there also my father mentioned it to me. On > her second marriage certificate it gives her father's name as > Henry/Harry Davis boot-maker dec: I have no idea what part of Oxford > she was born. She died 1948 London under the name of Helen (by > father),if their is anyone that can help then I can go further > knowing her mothers name would help Thanking you > > Eileen

 ----- Original Message ----- From: Eileen Chapman To: Oxfordshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 11:24 PM Subject: Ellen Davis Good morning from New Zealand, I have been researching my family tree for approx 25 years and have come at a dead end on my grandmother Ellen Davis, she was born approx 1868 in Oxford.she is on the 1891 to 1911 census as being born there also my father mentioned it to me. On her second marriage certificate it gives her father's name as Henry/Harry Davis boot-maker dec: I have no idea what part of Oxford she was born. She died 1948 London under the name of Helen (by father),if their is anyone that can help then I can go further knowing her mothers name would help Thanking you Eileen