Message text written by INTERNET:ORMULTNO-L@rootsweb.com > Hi Everyone -- I am hoping that someone has information about Waters CARMAN. He took Donation Land Claim # 74 (Certificate # 1663). It was for 326 acres in the northwest corner of Clackamas County, just a mile from the Multnomah Co border. It was in Twp. 2S Range 1E; today it is in Lake Oswego near highway I-5. Carman Drive in that area must have been named for him. From records in the Oregon History Center, Waters Carman was born in 1811 in Luzerne Co., PA and was in Oregon before Dec. 1, 1850. He married in 1852 to Mrs. Lucretia Gurney. This Waters Carman could have been the brother of Rachel Carman; who lived in Sangamon Co., Illinois in the 1830s. Rachel was born in 1814 in NY or PA and married Jacob E. Roll, and later his cousin, Pierson Roll. Parents of Rachel Carman (and therefore Watters Carman) were Jacob Carman and Mahala Golden. I am interested in Waters Carman and what he did after arrival in Oregon. Did he have an earlier marriage? any children? Can anyone confirm the connection to Rachel Carman and her parents? Thanks, Sue in Virginia< Sue - I don't know if anyone has answered on this, but had a minute at the library tonight and looked him up. There is a (short) biographical sketch of him in Lang's "History of the Willamette Valley", on page 712. It says he was born 1811 in PA; removed to Illinois in 1822, served in the Black Hawk War, in 1835 married Lavina Buckman (who died in 1846) by whom he had four children, in 1849 went to California, then on to Oregon in 1850, married Mrs. Lucretia Gurney in 1852 and had 4 more children. He died on his farm 29 Sep 1878. The 1860 Clackamas Co census says he was born in NY, age 48; wife Lucretia age 32, and the children in the household are George 6, Mary 4, and Henrietta 1. Anyway, he seems a likely candidate to be a relative of your Illinois Carman. Hope this helps somewhat. Julie JulieKidd@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JulieKidd/