Leith would be a "locatif" surname (spelling ?), ie it derives from the place. The four main origins of surnames are from a) patronymics (occasionally matronymics) ie from the father (Malcomson, Manson) b) location (Leith, Heddle, Norquoy) c) trade (Smith, Stewart) d) nicknames/adjectives (Stout, Armstrong). To give you an example of how they evolve, there may have been two John Johnsons, one a Smith by trade and the other a Labourer from Leith. To distinguish between the two of them, they would have been known as John the Smith and John from Leith, shortened to John Smith and John Leith. The Parish Register of Walls gives evidence in the early 1700s that patronymics had not completely been superseded. They survived into the early 1800s in Shetland. The Scandinavian countries kept them in use for longer with Sweden only adopting surnames at the start of THIS century (ie the 19th century). Iceland still uses patronymics. Regards David Perth, Western Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Yarbro Family <yarbro@wctc.net> To: <ORKNEY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 9:23 PM Subject: [ORKNEY] Leith > Can anyone tell me what the relationship is between the LEITH name in Orkney and Leith, Scotland, near Edinbrugh. What about Leith Hall? Is that family any relation to the Leiths who ended up in Orkney? My branch of the family traces back to Strommness, but I haven't gone back past the 1800s in my research. > Kate > yarbro@wctc.net > >

No direct info on your question, BUT I did read in one of the mythology articles at Suite101.com where it is supposed that Adam actually had two wives, and the first one was not Eve, but LEITH. That could be interesting if you ever trace back further into an Adam (and Eve) line. At least, it would add a folklorish tale to family history. ~v - -------------------------- Dubh Sidhe's Folklore, Faeries and Other Fantasy http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/folklore --------------------------- Home pages: Dubh_Sidhe's Faerie Garden http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/1674 ------------------------ Genealogy Resources: Steps in Time http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/4399

Can anyone tell me what the relationship is between the LEITH name in Orkney and Leith, Scotland, near Edinbrugh. What about Leith Hall? Is that family any relation to the Leiths who ended up in Orkney? My branch of the family traces back to Strommness, but I haven't gone back past the 1800s in my research. Kate yarbro@wctc.net

Hi, Adam's supposed second wife was Lilith not Leith. Evelyn Virginia Marin wrote: > No direct info on your question, BUT I did read in one of the mythology > articles at Suite101.com where it is supposed that Adam actually had two > wives, and the first one was not Eve, but LEITH. That could be > interesting if you ever trace back further into an Adam (and Eve) line. > At least, it would add a folklorish tale to family history. > ~v > > ---------------------------- > Dubh Sidhe's Folklore, Faeries and Other Fantasy > http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/folklore > --------------------------- > Home pages: Dubh_Sidhe's Faerie Garden > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/1674 > ------------------------ > Genealogy Resources: Steps in Time > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/4399

I am a new member of the discussion list. Please forgive me if this has already been asked, but can anyone shed some light on the Redlon/Redlan/Redland line of Orcadians? My grandmother's family was the RIDLEN family: Her grandfather was Samuel RIDLEN, b. 1839, d. 1915; His parents were John RIDLEN b. 1806, d. 1888 & Margaret Robinson; John's parents were Abraham RIDLEN, b. 1763 Saco, Maine, d. 1852 & Patience Tibbets; Abraham's parents were Matthias REDLON, b. 1728, Saco, Maine, d. 1810 & Rachel Edgecomb; Matthias' parents were Magnus REDLON, b. 1698, Orkney, d. 1772, Biddeford, Maine & Susanna Young. I've found some uncomfirmed suggestions that Magnus' father may also have been a Magnus, and that Magnus I's father may have been Thomas Redland. Any help? Thank you, Mathew Fisher

Hello Everybody, Happy New Year! I've just come back after a short break to find several emails from folk who have had difficulty following the link on my website to the Clouston mailing list. I can only apologise for the fact that the chap who organised it went and changed his email address without telling others on the list! Then when I did find out his correct email address I was unable to update my website with the correct information because of a fault at my Internet Service Provider! The millennium bug comes in many guises! However all should now be in order. The co-coordinator of the Clouston mailing list is Jim Clouston - jimc6442@prodigy.net - but if anybody has any difficulty contacting him, please email me and I will do my best to put you in touch with the rest of the group. Kind regards Mike -- Mike Clouston mike@clouston.co.uk http://www.clouston.co.uk/ http://web.ukonline.co.uk/pegwell/

Hello Jim, Princes Street is the main thoroughfare in Edinburgh's famous "New Town "designed by James Craig. in 1766. Parallel to the north run George St and Queen St. At either end of George St are elegant Georgian Squares - Charlotte at the west end and St Andrews at the east . Just to the east of St Andrews Square - in the angle between Leith St and York Place - was St James Square, designed by Craig and built between 1775 and 1790 ( The poet Robert Burns lived there for several months in 1787) It was demolished abt 1968 - to be replaced by the St James Centre shopping complex, New St Andrews House ( Government buildings now themselves disused!!) and multi story car parks. ) St James Place was just off South St James Street which in turn led off St James Square. The buildings in the square were solid 4 story stone built terraces - plus attic and basement. St James Place was to the east of the square, between it and what is now the Roman Catholic cathedral. St James Pla! ce is mentioned in my 1941 Post Office directory but number 9 is not listed. At number 1 was John Muir. Number 3 was the Theatre Royal stage entrance. Then Chalmers Garage. Next, Grant Donald and Son Shopfitters.and lastly St Andrews Hall, Church of Scotland , with hallkeeper H. Muir . There are two SEATTERS listed in Edinburgh then - John W. SEATTER at 2 Piershill Tce and Mrs. SEATTER at 70 South Clerk Street. I'm afraid I don't have access to an earlier directory but if you don't get sent the details, I could look them up next week at the library. Incidentally, a very early photographer called Thomas Begbie lived in St James Square and shortly before demolition an uncle of my husband with a keen interest in Edinburgh history rescued a great many photographic plates from an attic there. This collection has recently been donated to the City of Edinburgh Council for safe keeping ( we pray ) and forms the basis for a wonderful lantern slide and talk show by the uncle and his daughter ( Stanley and Cecilia Cavaye ) which I was lucky enough to see last month. Most of the plates date from 1860s - 80s and are really amazing - pictures of Edinburgh in the 19th century. I believe there is a book out now with some of the photos. I hope this helps, Jane Kelly, Penicuik, Scotland. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Seatter <jseatter@cris.com> To: <ORKNEY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 12:11 AM Subject: [ORKNEY] 9 St. James Place > Hello, > > While searching for one of my grandfather's brothers, I may have located him > in Edinburgh at the time of the 1881 census. He is listed as being at 9 St. > James Place, Edinburgh, St. Andrews, Edinburgh, Scotland. Can anyone > provide any insight as to what sort of facility was located at 9 St. James > Place? > > I'm researching the Seatter family that lived at Walkerhouse, Evie. > >

Catriona, I too am interested in the Groat line. What I have so far is: John Groat m Ann T. Robertson 24 Dec 1863 Walls and Flotta. They had the following children all born in Walls and Flotta: Jane Groat b. 29 March, 1864 John Robertson Groat b. 27 January, 1866 Thomasina Robertson Groat b. 24 March, 1870 William Charles Groat b. 22 November, 1874 I have more information on John Robertson's line. Is there some connection to your line? I look forward to hearing from you. Lori Milam Chicago, IL

Hello, While searching for one of my grandfather's brothers, I may have located him in Edinburgh at the time of the 1881 census. He is listed as being at 9 St. James Place, Edinburgh, St. Andrews, Edinburgh, Scotland. Can anyone provide any insight as to what sort of facility was located at 9 St. James Place? I'm researching the Seatter family that lived at Walkerhouse, Evie.

Dear Catriona, I have both SKEA and MUIR ancestry from Sanday. Let me know if you want to compare notes. All best wishes, Doug Nicol

>Catherine - Tried to open these sites, but to no avail. Is there a problem? > >> Genealogical guide to Ireland >> http://www.bess.tcd.ie/roots/prototyp/genweb2.htm >> >> The National Archives of Ireland >> http://www.kst.dit.ie/na-arch/genealogy.html >> Info on Irish family history and genealogy - includes TRANSPORTATION >RECORDS >> FOR 1788-1868, to Australia >> >> North of Ireland Family History Society >> http://www.os.qub.ac.uk/nifhs/ >> includes fragments of the 1851 census for Co Antrim >> >> PRO Of Nothern Ireland >> http://proni.nics.gov.uk/index.htm >> General info and details of holdings >> Walter, I also had trouble opening them direct from the email. I could only open the PRO of Northern Ireland. When I typed in the address for the National Archives I was able to access it - however the address for this is also http://www.nationalarchives.ie/genealogy.html The other two sites I had no luck with. Jan, Canberra, Australia

Catherine - Tried to open these sites, but to no avail. Is there a problem? Walter Fleet in Pennsylvania ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zrealmuto@aol.com> To: <ORKNEY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 10:19 PM Subject: [ORKNEY] Irish Websites > Hi all, > > Found these websites in a book I picked up the other day. Have not > investigated them as of yet but I thought that I would share. > > Genealogical guide to Ireland > http://www.bess.tcd.ie/roots/prototyp/genweb2.htm > > The National Archives of Ireland > http://www.kst.dit.ie/na-arch/genealogy.html > Info on Irish family history and genealogy - includes TRANSPORTATION RECORDS > FOR 1788-1868, to Australia > > North of Ireland Family History Society > http://www.os.qub.ac.uk/nifhs/ > includes fragments of the 1851 census for Co Antrim > > PRO Of Nothern Ireland > http://proni.nics.gov.uk/index.htm > General info and details of holdings > > Taken from "My Ain Folks" by Graham S Holton and Jack Winch > > Good Luck > > Catherine

Hi all, Found these websites in a book I picked up the other day. Have not investigated them as of yet but I thought that I would share. Genealogical guide to Ireland http://www.bess.tcd.ie/roots/prototyp/genweb2.htm The National Archives of Ireland http://www.kst.dit.ie/na-arch/genealogy.html Info on Irish family history and genealogy - includes TRANSPORTATION RECORDS FOR 1788-1868, to Australia North of Ireland Family History Society http://www.os.qub.ac.uk/nifhs/ includes fragments of the 1851 census for Co Antrim PRO Of Nothern Ireland http://proni.nics.gov.uk/index.htm General info and details of holdings Taken from "My Ain Folks" by Graham S Holton and Jack Winch Good Luck Catherine

>From the journal of Alexander HENRY, the younger, chief factor at the North West Company's post at Pembina, 1807, Dec. 29th: "An extraordinary affair occurred this morning. One of Mr. HENEY's Orkney lads, apparently indisposed, requested me to allow him to remain in my house for a short time. I was surprised at the fellow's demand; however, I told him to sit down and warm himself. I returned to my own room, where I had not been long before he sent one of my people, requesting the favour of speaking with me. Accordingly, I stepped down to him, and was much surprised to find him extended on the hearth, uttering dreadful lamentations; he stretched out his hands toward me, and in piteous tones begged me to be kind to a poor, helpless, abandoned wretch, who was not of the sex I had supposed, but an unfortunate Orkney girl, pregnant, and actually in childbirth. In saying this she opened her jacket, and displayed a beautiful pair of round, white breasts..." This excerpt is from a historical novel, details below. I have not seen the book, but am quoting from a review, which says that the novel is "based on a young Orkney woman who disguised herself as a man to work in Rupert's Land until she gave birth in 1807. With a feminist imagination, Thomas explores Gunn's radical adventure, the origins of her child and her painful separation from him - narrated by an Orcadian minister named Magnus INKSTER." I don't know what is the ratio of novel to history. The book is "Isobel Gunn" by Audrey Thomas, Penguin $29.99 [Cdn]. I know NOTHING MORE about the book, but thought the List might find this interesting. Ken Harrison North Vancouver, Canada mcharrison@compuserve.com HARRISON Yorkshire, Staffordshire, London (Highgate/Hampstead) POTCHIT Yorkshire FISHER London (Highgate/Hampstead) GRIFFIN Staffordshire STANLEY Staffordshire HENDERSON Dumfries SMELLIE Lanark, Orkney, Glasgow, Tasmania STIRRAT Glasgow BAIN Caithness MILLER Caithness, Swaziland SPENCE Orkney TRAILL Orkney SELKRIG Lanark WICKETSHAW Lanark MORRISON Perthshire, Islay, Dumbarton, Glasgow, Australia (Vic) BAIRD Renfrew HAMM Australia (Vic) THOMPSON Suffolk AGGUS Suffolk BRIGHTWELL Suffolk LAWSON Clackmannan McNABB Islay MURRAY Dumfries, Renfrew CALDWELL Tyrone, Renfrew GILLESPIE Dumfries HENDERSON Dumfries TAKET Dumfries GRAHAM Tyrone Genealogists never die ... they just lose their census.

> found "Lesshammer, Eday" on a family birth certificate. Does anyone know > where Lesshammer is? Is it a town or the name of the family home? Lesshammer (or Lesshamar) would be the name of a croft or house. It's on the north-west side of the island. -- Sigurd Towrie - Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney E-Mail: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Orkneyjar - The Heritage of Orkney: http://www.orkneyjar.com

Jackie, I notice that you are researching the Norquay name. I have a GGGrandmother, Janet Norquay (1794-1856). Her parents would be William Norquay and Isabella Sinclair. Would these be the ones? If so take a look at my web page and see if any of the other names seem familiar. dan grant www.grantgg.com/~grantda

on Thursday, December 23, 1999 11:26 PM Jackie Middleton <jackiemiddleton@home.com> wrote to: <ORKNEY-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: [ORKNEY] Penicuik?? > An uncle just sent me some old photographs of my ancestors. > With one of them, he has written that a certain ancestor was a Police Sgt. > in Penicuik. > As far as I know, there isn't a Penicuik in the Orkneys.....it's near > Edinburgh. > Is there another Penicuik that I haven't yet found? I have no records as of > yet, of any > of my Scottish ancestors coming from Scotland proper.....so I'm a bit > confused. > Jackie Middleton > searching Dickson, Ward, Weir, Hourston, Clouston, Norquay in the Orkney > Islands Hi Jackie Back from a sea trip to Norway today to find your mail. This Penicuik here in Midlothian (or Edinburghshire!) is the only one in Scotland I've heard of. You don't say who your Orkney/Penicuik ancestor was. There haven't been many policemen based in this place so he shouldn't be hard to find. Like my ancestor he may have come from Orkney to work in Midlothian. Incidental and not-so-incidental links with the northern isles abound here. We have the Pentland Hills, Orkney has the Pentland Firth. Our just-closed local bookshop was run by Orcadians. The convener of the community council is a Shetlander. The local pub is the Crown (covenanters transported from Midlothian in the ship of that name were wrecked on Orkney at Tankerness). And a powerful historical connection is provided by the Sinclairs of Orkney who built their Rosslyn Chapel right here a couple of miles north of Penicuik. Below are some Penicuik links. None of them will help immediately with your ancestor but they will show something about this place: http://www.btinternet.com/~mmgene/genuki/mln/penicui.htm http://www2.scotweb.co.uk/arts/penicuik/lookingback.html (William Young and Marjorie Fidler both have minor Orkney connections) http://www.penicuik.demon.co.uk/penicuik/oldpenicuik/oldpen.html Good wishes Roger Kelly by St Mungo's well, Penicuik (administered by the Navy Board of Transportation 1811-1820) Scotland

Hi all, found "Lesshammer, Eday" on a family birth certificate. Does anyone know where Lesshammer is? Is it a town or the name of the family home? TIA Catherine

Jackie - you might find a little info at http://rontay.digiweb.com/Default.htm#occ Happy Christmas Ishbel Raffle

I should have included this question in my last message, so my apologies for asking yet another question so soon!! Is there a website where you can search for the names of those in the police force? Jackie Middleton ______________ searching Dickson, Ward, Weir, Hourston, Clouston, Norquay in the Orkney Islands