Hi Norman, Yes that's the one I was meaning. I can't remember where it was that I saw this HillHead, Bendigo and Gaitnip mentioned as being in Holm. On the other side of Kirkwall at the airport area some of the places were mentioned as being either in St Ola or St Andrews/Tankerness too and that's why I wondered if the St Ola boundary had changed at some time. Maybe the person writing down the data didn't know where the boundary was of course?? Marion Web pages at www.btinternet.com/~marion.mcleod http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/m/c/l/Marion-A-Mcleod www.photobox.co.uk/[email protected]

Carol, sorry but don't know of these people. Maybe someone else on the list might though? Marion Web pages at www.btinternet.com/~marion.mcleod http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/m/c/l/Marion-A-Mcleod www.photobox.co.uk/[email protected]

Hello Marion,hope you dont mind me asking your help,i,m looking for a relation from STROMSEYJulie and Ken SMITH,maybei n there 60,s Carol.----- Original Message ----- From: "MARION MCLEOD" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 6:12 AM Subject: Re: [Orkney] Getting started in Orkney > Hill Head in Holm - could this be Hillhead in St Ola on the Holm Road on the > outskirts of Kirkwall? > > Marion > Web pages at www.btinternet.com/~marion.mcleod > http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/m/c/l/Marion-A-Mcleod > www.photobox.co.uk/[email protected] > > > > ==== ORKNEY Mailing List ==== > This is not a commercial or "FWD the latest political or humour" list, anyone considering posting any item that might be construed as being commercial/political otherwise known as being "OFF TOPIC" can and will be advised once - IF there is a second post of the same nature the subscriber will be unsubscribed IMMEDIATELY. > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > >

MARION MCLEOD wrote: > Hi Norman > > I have come across reference to Hill Head in Holm too but it was actually > the Hill Head in St Ola. Could the St Ola and Holm boundary have changed > over the years? > > Marion Marion, I've been having a look for an oldish map of Orkney showing parish boundaries and this is the best I can find so far: http://tinyurl.com/9deys The parish boundaries are marked with red lines and, though the map isn't as detailed as I'd like, it looks to me as though the St Ola/Holm boundary is just where it is today. The little puzzle over the location of Hillhead, Holm remains, I think. The Hillhead you're talking about is the one not far from the north-east shore of Scapa Bay, isn't it? The one shown roughly in the middle of this map? http://tinyurl.com/7lhb9 Norman Tulloch

MARION MCLEOD wrote: > Hi Norman > > I have come across reference to Hill Head in Holm too but it was actually > the Hill Head in St Ola. Could the St Ola and Holm boundary have changed > over the years? > > Marion Well yes, Marion, I guess the boundary certainly could have changed, but I don't know whether it did. The Hillhead that you're referring to is about two miles north of the present St Ola/Holm parish boundary. However, I suppose it's possible that St Ola parish might have been extended southwards at some point to take account of the expansion of Kirkwall. A bit of extra research is called for, I think. :-) Norman Tulloch

Hi Norman I have come across reference to Hill Head in Holm too but it was actually the Hill Head in St Ola. Could the St Ola and Holm boundary have changed over the years? Marion Web pages at www.btinternet.com/~marion.mcleod http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/m/c/l/Marion-A-Mcleod www.photobox.co.uk/[email protected]

MARION MCLEOD wrote: > Hill Head in Holm - could this be Hillhead in St Ola on the Holm Road on the > outskirts of Kirkwall? > > Marion Marion, As you say, that Hillhead is presumably in St Ola parish rather than Holm. I don't know where the Holm one is, but I did come across this reference to it in a Rootsweb Archive message written by Norma Thain: "Hi Janine, Came across this member of your Petrie family when I was completing my index of the 1873 Petrie marriages in Scotland........ Marriage Certificate Transcription Ref: 1873 HOLM, Orkney Page 4 Entry 7 (source: General Records Office) On 13 November 1873 at Hillhead, Holm, Orkney (after banns of Church of Scotland) GEORGE RENDALL Ploughman Bachelor age 22 of Nethertown, Holm Parents: JOHN RENDALL - Weaver SEATOR (sic) RENDALL ms RENDALL JANE PETRIE House Maid Spinster age 23 of Nethertown, Holm Parents: JAMES PETRIE - Fisherman - deceased ELISABETH PETRIE ms SUTHERLAND Witnesses: JAMES GARRIOCH PETER PETRIE ______________ Cheerio Norma" Source here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/PETRIE-SCOTLAND/2002-05/1022433522 I think, therefore, that there must be another Hillhead in Holm, but I can't see it on the map. I can see a Braehead, though. I don't suppose that could be an alternative name for the same place, could it? Incidentally, I can't find Nethertown, Holm on the 1:50000 Ordnance Survey map either. Regards, Norman Tulloch

Hill Head in Holm - could this be Hillhead in St Ola on the Holm Road on the outskirts of Kirkwall? Marion Web pages at www.btinternet.com/~marion.mcleod http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/m/c/l/Marion-A-Mcleod www.photobox.co.uk/[email protected]

Meg and Lisa. Thanks so much for responding to my query. These two families belong to my son-in-law and now hence my new grandson. With all this information I wished they belonged to my line! I'm particularly pleased to get the details of the 1841 census for the Andersons. Lisa. I was very impressed with your website and the items over the past you have submitted to the mailing list on the Gerards. Thanks once again. Maureen in Sydney.

Jane - can you supply any dates to zero in on this family ? The 1881 Census shows a BROWN family in Kirkwall on Victoria Street that had been from Holm. Catherine BROWN, widow, 38, born Holm, she was a Lodginghouse Keeper with a son, James, 11 also born Holm & another son, Alexander aged 8, born Holm. I checked the IGI for the birth of a James BROWN born about 1870 and did find a James BROWN, son of James and Catherine BROWN born 14 March, 1870 in Holm. This Catherine's maiden name was MANSON. The IGI shows they wed 27 Aug, 1868 which means my local Family History Center has a microfilm containing the original handwritten registration. This would tell you the parents of both bride and groom, with their ages at the marriage plus when and where they married. The marriage document might specifically list Hill Head. The 1871 Census for Holm would probably have it on the enumeration page. I'd suggest beginning with the online IGI : http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp It goes up to 1875, later dates are Patron Submissions, not from original data sources. All Holm Births, Marriages and Deaths can be searched in Batches [old parish books]: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyOrkney.htm#H Before anyone goes further to find something on your family, can you assist with some dates, maybe your GGrandmother's name or some information to get a plausible birth or marriage to begin to trace them ? There is a lot of data available on Orkney, please post what you have that would point to a year to search. Thanks and Welcome ! Meg Greenwood / Oklahoma USA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hi all, I'm new to Orkney research and Rootsweb lists have always been helpful to me when I've started researching in a new place. My cousin recently sent me a copy of a letter written by my greatgrandmother in 1939. In part it reads:My father [James Brown] came from the Orkney Islands that is at the far north of Scotland and my grand father still lived there when I was 15 years old at a place called the Hill Head of Holm pronounced Ham some 300 years ago his ancestors came from Sweden. The name was spelled Breun that is all I know about him only I think my father was the only one of the family that came here unless there were some sisters of his that came here [I mean came to Scotland[Aberdeen]] it seems to me I hame some faint recollections of them. What resources are available destinctive to Orkney/Holm? I have been unable to find a "Hill Head" of Holm. Do I need to go through the GRO for Scotland for births/marriages/deaths? All suggestions appreciated. Jane

Hi all again, My Great-Grandmother was Isabella Ross Brown, daughter of Alexander or James Brown [I got the paperwork from ScotlandsPeople: birth, marriage records say Alexander but her letter says James, unless she meant her grandfather was James.] She was born 23 March 1861 in Aberdeen, so when she was 15 and she knew her Grandfather was still alive, the date would have been 1876. Her father died 8 Jan 1862 and her mother remarried. Thank you for your prompt help!! Jane --- Greenwood <[email protected]> wrote: > Jane - can you supply any dates to zero in on this > family ? The 1881 > Census shows a BROWN family in Kirkwall on Victoria > Street that had been > from Holm. Catherine BROWN, widow, 38, born Holm, > she was a > Lodginghouse Keeper with a son, James, 11 also born > Holm & another son, > Alexander aged 8, born Holm. > > I checked the IGI for the birth of a James BROWN > born about 1870 and did > find a James BROWN, son of James and Catherine BROWN > born 14 March, 1870 > in Holm. This Catherine's maiden name was MANSON. > The IGI shows they wed > 27 Aug, 1868 which means my local Family History > Center has a microfilm > containing the original handwritten registration. > This would tell you > the parents of both bride and groom, with their ages > at the marriage > plus when and where they married. The marriage > document might > specifically list Hill Head. The 1871 Census for > Holm would probably > have it on the enumeration page. > > I'd suggest beginning with the online IGI : > http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp > It goes up to 1875, later dates are Patron > Submissions, not from > original data sources. > > All Holm Births, Marriages and Deaths can be > searched in Batches [old > parish books]: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyOrkney.htm#H > > Before anyone goes further to find something on your > family, can you > assist with some dates, maybe your GGrandmother's > name or some > information to get a plausible birth or marriage to > begin to trace them > ? There is a lot of data available on Orkney, > please post what you have > that would point to a year to search. Thanks and > Welcome ! Meg > Greenwood / Oklahoma USA > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Hi all, > I'm new to Orkney research and Rootsweb lists have > always been helpful to me when I've started > researching in a new place. My cousin recently sent > me > a copy of a letter written by my greatgrandmother in > 1939. In part it reads:My father [James Brown] came > from the Orkney Islands that is at the far north of > Scotland and my > grand father still lived there when I was 15 years > old at a place called the Hill Head of Holm > pronounced > Ham some 300 years ago his ancestors came from > Sweden. > The name was spelled Breun that is all I know about > him only I think my father was the only one of the > family > that came here unless there were some sisters of > his > that came here [I mean came to Scotland[Aberdeen]] > it > seems to me I hame some faint recollections of > them. > > What resources are available destinctive to > Orkney/Holm? I have been unable to find a "Hill > Head" > of Holm. Do I need to go through the GRO for > Scotland > for births/marriages/deaths? > All suggestions appreciated. > Jane > > > > > > ==== ORKNEY Mailing List ==== > >>>>TIP: To search the archives of this list go to > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=ORKNEY > on the next page enter your search word(s) and > select the year click the submit query button<<<< > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and > search for your ancestors at the same time. Share > your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com

Hello Jane, One of the best things you could do is to purchase James M. Irvine's book, Trace Your Orkney Ancestors, available from the author by contacting him at: [email protected] I have no business or commercial connection to Mr. Irvine and so am just offering this advice to you freely. You'll find the book well worth having and it's only £8.50. He'll ship it anywhere. Good luck with your research, Doug Nicol Norman D. Nicol, Ph.D. Professional Genealogist/Family Historian Specializing in NE Pennsylvania, England, esp. Cornwall, and Scotland

Hi all, I'm new to Orkney research and Rootsweb lists have always been helpful to me when I've started researching in a new place. My cousin recently sent me a copy of a letter written by my greatgrandmother in 1939. In part it reads:My father [James Brown] came from the Orkney Islands that is at the far north of Scotland and my grand father still lived there when I was 15 years old at a place called the Hill Head of Holm pronounced Ham some 300 years ago his ancestors came from Sweden. The name was spelled Breun that is all I know about him only I think my father was the only one of the family that came here unless there were some sisters of his that came here [I mean came to Scotland[Aberdeen]] it seems to me I hame some faint recollections of them. What resources are available destinctive to Orkney/Holm? I have been unable to find a "Hill Head" of Holm. Do I need to go through the GRO for Scotland for births/marriages/deaths? All suggestions appreciated. Jane __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com

I am new to this mailing list but not to many others. I came to the Orkneys one because of my new grandson born a couple of months ago and for some time have been doing his family tree. On looking through the archives of 2001 a Lisa Conrad wrote of the Rev John GERARD of South Ronaldsay and Burray which I very much enjoyed reading as he fits into my grandson's tree through the Rev John Gerard's daughter Susan who married the Rev James ANDERSON (1773-1845). The Andersons were connected with the parish of Ophir. I'm wondering if anyone on the list is connected with the families of the Reverends GERARD and ANDERSON. Regards Maureen Sydney Australia

Hi Maureen - Ron Sutherland is connected to the GERARD line... has he contacted you yet? If not, I can write to him (maybe he does not subscribe to this list and hence, is not aware of your connection) and I can send him your email address... then he can email you. I have probably come across other family linkages during my researching, but would have to dig through some papers and get back to you... Lisa {> on 10/18/05 10:04 PM <} maureenoc wrote -- I am new to this mailing list but not to many others. I came to the Orkneys one because of my new grandson born a couple of months ago and for some time have been doing his family tree. On looking through the archives of 2001 a Lisa Conrad wrote of the Rev John GERARD of South Ronaldsay and Burray which I very much enjoyed reading as he fits into my grandson's tree through the Rev John Gerard's daughter Susan who married the Rev James ANDERSON (1773-1845). The Andersons were connected with the parish of Ophir. I'm wondering if anyone on the list is connected with the families of the Reverends GERARD and ANDERSON. Regards Maureen Sydney Australia

Maureen in Sydney - there is a lot of existing data on these ANDERSONs, not sure if you want family information, or just to find out about descendants of this line. Will note a few things I've found just now on them, will post and find out what would help you further. I'm not a descendant of this line, however, I'm sure our relatives paths crossed long ago. I'm researching HALCROs in Orphir, seems they went with the Free Church when it came to be in 1843-4. Meg Greenwood / Oklahoma USA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In the 1821 Census of Orphir, enumerated as ED1, residence 1 Reverend James ANDERSON, Minister in Deal aged 40-50. James FLETT, servant, James SNODIE, Jane INKSTER, Margaret SINCLAIR. There were quite a few cattle and sheep, with geese and swine also. They had a plough and a cart. At ED1, residence 3, a Mina ANDERSON aged 30-40 was a Servant at 'Claistran' in the family of John RAE, Esquire. If you jump way down to ED1, residence 129, in the home of William CLOUSTON, Farmer in Gallow Hall, aged 50-60, his wife was Christian ANDERSON aged 40-5- with children Betty, William & John. This is from David Armstrong's transcription of the 1821 Census for Orphir, purchased from the Ontario Genealogical Society some years ago. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In the 1841 Census, this family is found at ED2, #1 - James ANDERSON, 65, Minister. Susan G. ANDERSON, 40, Minister's wife. Jane ANDERSON, 12. Margaret ANDERSON, 11, James ANDERSON, 9. Susan Gerard ANDERSON, 8. Jessie Sutherland ANDERSON, 6. John Gerard ANDERSON, 5. Servants Catherine WILSON and Mary MOAR. Also there were Preacher John GERARD, 40. Mary R. GERARD, 35 Independent and Margaret INKSTER, 20 a Straw Plaiter. They are the only ANDERSONs in the Orphir index for that census. This is from the Orkney Family History Societies census booklets. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Children found in the IGI : Anderson, Batch Number: C110234 JANE ANDERSON - Christening: 08 Aug 1828 Orphir. MARGARET ANDERSON - Christening: 27 Nov 1829. JAMES ANDERSON - Christening: 25 Aug 1831 Orphir. SUSAN GERARD ANDERSON - Christening: 09 Jan 1833 Orphir. JESSIE SUTHERLAND ANDERSON - Christening: 22 Aug 1834 Orphir. JOHN GERARD ANDERSON - Christening: 25 Feb 1836 Orphir. JOHN ANDERSON - Birth: 12 May 1854 Orphir. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ maureenoc wrote: I am new to this mailing list but not to many others. I came to the Orkneys one because of my new grandson born a couple of months ago and for some time have been doing his family tree. On looking through the archives of 2001 a Lisa Conrad wrote of the Rev John GERARD of South Ronaldsay and Burray which I very much enjoyed reading as he fits into my grandson's tree through the Rev John Gerard's daughter Susan who married the Rev James ANDERSON (1773-1845). The Andersons were connected with the parish of Ophir. I'm wondering if anyone on the list is connected with the families of the Reverends GERARD and ANDERSON. Regards, Maureen - Sydney, Australia

Norman Tulloch wrote: > > > Mike Clouston wrote: >> >> Your second link doesn't work Norman. >> >> Try this one - >> http://www.scotsgenealogy.com/cgi-bin/sh000000.pl?ACTINIC_REFERRER=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2escotsgenealogy%2ecom%2facatalog%2fsearch%2ehtml&REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2escotsgenealogy%2ecom%2facatalog%2fshop%2ehtml&WD=stromness&SHOP=%20&PREVQUERY=SS%3dStromness%26ACTION%3dGo%2521%26PR%3d%2d1%26TB%3dA%26SHOP%3d%20&PN=Orkney_MI%2ehtml%23a2025#a2025 >> > > Hi Mike, > > Yes, I realised that I'd given a duff link and did follow up with one > that (I think) actually worked. > > Thanks though. Hello Norman Yes that one worked fine and is a whole lot shorter than mine :-) -- Mike Clouston

Mike Clouston wrote: > > Your second link doesn't work Norman. > > Try this one - > http://www.scotsgenealogy.com/cgi-bin/sh000000.pl?ACTINIC_REFERRER=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2escotsgenealogy%2ecom%2facatalog%2fsearch%2ehtml&REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2escotsgenealogy%2ecom%2facatalog%2fshop%2ehtml&WD=stromness&SHOP=%20&PREVQUERY=SS%3dStromness%26ACTION%3dGo%2521%26PR%3d%2d1%26TB%3dA%26SHOP%3d%20&PN=Orkney_MI%2ehtml%23a2025#a2025 > Hi Mike, Yes, I realised that I'd given a duff link and did follow up with one that (I think) actually worked. Thanks though. Norman Tulloch

Norman Tulloch wrote: > Fiona, > > The book is listed on Amazon UK, though you have to pay an extra > "sourcing fee" for it: > http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1902957008/qid%3D1129500058/202-1286726-6671827 > > > > It's also listed by the Scottish Genealogy Society, though it seems > surprisingly cheap compared to Amazon and I'm therefore not totally > sure that it's the same book. I think it must be, but it would be as > well to check before ordering it. Look here: > http://www.scotsgenealogy.com/cgi-bin/ca000000.pl Your second link doesn't work Norman. Try this one - http://www.scotsgenealogy.com/cgi-bin/sh000000.pl?ACTINIC_REFERRER=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2escotsgenealogy%2ecom%2facatalog%2fsearch%2ehtml&REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2escotsgenealogy%2ecom%2facatalog%2fshop%2ehtml&WD=stromness&SHOP=%20&PREVQUERY=SS%3dStromness%26ACTION%3dGo%2521%26PR%3d%2d1%26TB%3dA%26SHOP%3d%20&PN=Orkney_MI%2ehtml%23a2025#a2025 -- Mike Clouston

Fiona, The link I gave for the Scots Genealogy Society didn't seem to work. Let's see if this one's better: http://www.scotsgenealogy.com/acatalog/Orkney_MI.html Norman Tulloch