Does this have anything to do with VanBebber? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=420861148 Vince -- Listowner: The Original 13 Settlers of Germantown, Pennsylvania Visit our homepage at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~original13/ Family Lines that came aboard the Concord in October of 1683.