Hi All, And hi Burnell, Thanks for the offer on the photos. I remember someone here in the group had in their possession some carefully taken shots of it, and they launched it on a website, and they were terrific photos. I wish I could remember who that was! (whoever it was, please chime in, it would be great to link the Original 13 website to them). I've also seen the copies of Herman's name from them many times. But what puzzles me the most is the question of whether 300 years ago, or even 500 years ago, if the surnames of Graeff & DeGraeff are descended from the same family tree, or a different line altogether.. or it's both, and then we have a quite a mess on our hands. I can not find an Op den Graeff variation in Europe, something or anything that has retained the Op or Up, but I do find Graeff, and DeGraeff. In the 1750-60's time period I have come across a DeGraeff family near Kingston or Eusopus NY, (Ulster County) and at least 1 family in Putnam County, and also 1 family of DeGraeff's in Orange County. There were also Up/Op variations running around these same basic regions, all within the same time period. All these NY counties adjoin each other, Putnam Co. is situated right next to Orange County NY (formed from Ulster Co.), which is a stones throw from the NJ borderline. There are some coincidences that I noticed about this. The DeGraeff's I saw, and also the Updegrove's/Updegroef's had settled with other families, some which share shared the same surnames. Has anyone ever positively connected anyone, or know of anyone who has positively connected the surname "DeGraeff" or "Graeff" with an Op den Graeff ("OP"/"UP") variable at any point in time? Liese ----- Original Message ----- From: Burnell Uptagrafft <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [ORIGINAL-13] V00 #127 Zimmerman > > Look at the name on the stained glass windows from the home of Herman Up Den > Graeff. If you want a photo image of same, send me a self addressed, > stamped envelope and I have five copies left. Then you will know, from his > coat of arms, how it was originally spelled in the early 1600's. > > My address is 1258 Terrace Place, Camano Island, WA 98282-8438. Burnell > (B.K. and Shirely Uptagrafft) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Liese Uptegrove-Ade" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 7:04 PM > Subject: Re: [ORIGINAL-13] V00 #127 Zimmerman > > > > >... Just like the Updegraeff's, I just got a letter > > > asking me who the Upthegroves are in NY > > > and Canada... anyone have a clue?? I don't.. > > > > > > Cali, > > > > From what I have seen and gathered, (through various sources, Cathy > Berger, > > and my own research) the Upthegrove's in Canada & NY are closely connected > > to the other name variations of Updegrove, Uptegrove, & Updegrave (and of > > course others). There's allot of unanswered questions surrounding these > > branches who resided in the NY/NJ area before the Revolutionary war, but I > > believe that this is most likely where the majority of the Upthegrove's > who > > were found in Canada probably stemmed from, and I have reason to believe > > that one very probable migration route of the branches that I am studying > > was the "Wallkill River", which starts in the Mohawk Valley in Sussex > > County, NJ (and which flow runs north) on through Orange County, NY, to > hook > > up into the Hudson River, & along through into Upper Canada. > > > > As for the style of surname, my 4th great-grandfather b. abt 1755 (who > also > > settled in the Upstate NY/Northern NJ region) is listed by name with a > > minimum of Upthegrove, Uptigrave & Updegrove, and others. Feel free to > tell > > the person who contacted you about the Upthegrove's to drop me a line, and > > time permitting, I'd be glad to fill them in on whatever information I > have > > if they are interested. > > > > And regarding possible variations of "Graeff", or "DeGraeff" I'm still > not > > sure where either one stands in connection with Op den Graff yet, whether > it > > was ever proven that one or the other was definately a form of, and > > connected to the Op den Graeff name, but I sure would love to know. > > > > Liese > > > > > > ==== ORIGINAL-13 Mailing List ==== > > If You Feel Someone Has Flamed You, or Mistreated You, DO NOT, please > > Email the List. Contact: > > [email protected], Vince Summers, List Owner > > > > ============================== > > Search ALL of RootsWeb's mailing lists in real time. > > RootsWeb's Personalized Mailing Lists: > > http://pml.rootsweb.com/ > > > > > > > ==== ORIGINAL-13 Mailing List ==== > Unsubscribe by sending a blank email with only the word unsubscribe in > the Subject and Body fields, with no signature file, etc., to: > [email protected] or [email protected] > > ============================== > Search ALL of RootsWeb's mailing lists in real time. > RootsWeb's Personalized Mailing Lists: > http://pml.rootsweb.com/ >