What a fantastic report on how to research! Cathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Howard Swain <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 9:13 PM Subject: [ORIGINAL-13] Marriage date of "Tonis Kuners" and "Lentgen Matteisen" > Hi all, > > I've been having some fun researching the marriage date of Thones > and Leentje. As a starting point, I'm glad for the pioneering work > of Wilhelm Niepoth, who used German sources to sort out these families. > > In "The Ancestry of the Thirteen Krefeld Emigrants of 1683," by > Wilhelm Niepoth, translated by John Brockie Lukens; reprinted in > Genealogies of Pennsylvania Families... vol III pp 495-512 we read > on page 507: > "...on the first Sunday after Trinity (May 31) Anno Domini 1677 in > Krefeld at the Reformed Church, the bans of marriage were published > for 'Tonis Kuners of Gladbach and Lentgen Mattheisen (spinster) of > Kaldenkirchen.'" > > When I read that, I realized that I did not know when Trinity was. > And it was not clear if they were saying that Trinity was May 31 > or the first Sunday after was May 31. So, I decided to try to > get a look at the actual marriage record to see what it said. > Plus I just wanted to see it for myself anyway. > > There were enough clues in the above to let me find in the LDS > library catalog a set of films titled "Kirchenbuch, 1647-1798" with > authors: "Evangelisch-Reformierte Kirche Crefeld." In particular > film #1,336,927, item 5 has the Heiraten [marriages] beginning > in 1677. > > It was easy to find the marriage of Tönis and Lentgen. The date > shown is "Dom. 1 Trinitatis". I agree that this means the first > Sunday after Trinity. But when is Trinity? > > According to my dictionary, Trinity is the Sunday after Pentecost. > And Pentecost is 7 weeks after Easter. So, when was Easter in 1677? > And since I wasn't sure whether the Krefeld records were using > Julian or Gregorian, I wanted to find Easter in both systems. > > I found this site that seemed to know what they were talking about > and had tables that could be used to calcuate the date of Easter > in both systems: http://www.chariot.net.au/~gmarts/easter.htm > I also used this site to print out pages of months for both: > http://www.calendarhome.com/tyc/ (But note that their date > for Easter in the Julian is the Gregorian day of the month number > which puts it on Wed.; so that is wrong.) > > Using the first site, I came up with Easter on 18 April 1677 for > the Gregorian Calendar and 15 April for the Julian. That would > put the Sunday after Trinity as 20 June and 17 June respectively. > > And then it occured to me that maybe the LDS web page on German > genealogy research would have some help in this area. So I went to: > http://www.familysearch.org/sg/Germany.html and found: > "Bukke, Inger M., et al. The Comprehensive Genealogical Feast Day > Calendar. ... fiche 6054630 ..." I went to my local FHC and > they already had that fiche on file. And wonder of wonders, > their dates for Easter and Trinity exactly matched what I had > determined for 1677 in both Julian and Gregorian. > > Now we have to face the question of whether the Reformed Church > of Krefeld was using Gregorian or Julian. > > Supposedly the German "Catholic States" changed to Gregorian in > 1583-85 with the "Protestant States" changing in 1700. (Bukke, et al) > With so many "States" and so much change going on there and the > 30 years war (1618-1648), etc., I still am not sure which > the Krefeld area was in 1583-85. Or for much of the time between > 1582 and 1677. The best I have found is 2 maps that show the German > states after the Peace of Westphalia in 1648. They both show the > Krefeld area as being in the Archbishopric of Cologne. So, it was > apparently in a Catholic area in 1648. If not already on Gregorian, > it maight have changed at that time and then stayed Gregorian > even if it went back to Protestant control. > > As the above approach may always be indeterminate, I decided to > see if there was anything in the data itself which would help. > All the marriages after Trinity seem to be on Sunday, as they > say "Dom" for the date and then how many weeks past Trinity. > Therefore, until something better comes along, I will assume that > the earlier marriages were on Sunday also. It just so happens that > if I assume a Gregorian calendar, then all the marriages except one > fall on Sunday. > > Therefore, it appears to me that Tönis and Lentgen got married on > 20 June 1677. > > Astute readers will have noticed that Niepoth/Lukens cited banns > and I have been talking marriage date. (The banns would be 2 weeks > or more before the marriage.) There are some other differences > between the record I found and what they reported. They reported > that Lentgen was a "spinster". The record I found had no words, > letters, or symbols to indicate that. Also, in my record her > patronymic is clearly Matteisen and they have Mattheisen. Now > that could be a typo or proofreading error on their part. Or > it could mean that Niepoth saw a different record than what I > found. > > Here is my hypothesis: There were separate books for banns and > for marriage (although I've never seen that before). Niepoth saw > the banns book, and it had "spinster" and maybe a different spelling > for Mattheisen. And it had the date of banns as May 31 or maybe > May 30 (Sunday) and the 0 looked like a 1. May 30 would be > 3 weeks before my 20 June date. Maybe he also saw the same > marriage book I have the film of and somehow the banns of May 30 > or 31 got garbled with the marriage on the first Sunday past > Trinity in the write-up or translation. > > There is one additional fly in the ointment. From all I can tell, > the book on the film I have is marriages as the LDS documentation > says, and not banns. However, at the bottom of each entry, there > are the numbers 1 2 3 with slantwise line drawn through each. It > looks as if they could have been checking these off as the banns were > read on 3 successive Sundays. In which case, 20 June (first > Sunday past Trinity) _might_ be the date the banns were first > read. > > It is unfortunate that on p. 509 in summarizing all the Doors > children, the article has that Tonis Kunders _married_ on 31 May 1677 -- > which is not consistent with their earlier statement that "the first > Sunday after Trinity (May 31)" was the date of banns. > > In any event, it appears clear to me that they did not marry on > May 31. I think 20 June is the best estimate with what I know now, > with later dates possible. > > > Thanks for any insight into any of this. > > Regards, > Howard > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > ==== ORIGINAL-13 Mailing List ==== > We ***LOVE*** Original Source Material on this List. 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