I have a story that both He and Hance Supplee are both burried, in their Homesteads, in Unmarked graves... Can't verify it , but have read it many times Cali's German PA, Genealogy http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Falls/3610 I will be putting an updated page at rootsweb soon..There are some errors in the first page I need to remove, or fix.. Thanks,Cali {{{HUGS}}}} ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

The only reference I saw to his burial was in the letters of Herman T Lukens. His letters are on LDS Tape #1420725. My notes say QUOTE Lukens Genealogy was being complied in 1937 by Herman T Lukens - letters of his on microfilm LDS TAPE 1420725 "Jan Lückens built house on "Grange Farm" where present shops on the No Broad St subway are located - Grange Ave & 11th St. Asks if he was buried at Abington. UNQUOTE I pass it on as it's interesting about the house, and I found it while digging for what I had on a burial place. To Gene S I thought that I looked at the microfilm transcription of the Lower Burial Ground in Germantown and couldn't find anything as early as Jan. Does that just mean that they were worn away when the transcription was done? Did anyone record the location or is the Lower Burial Ground just the usual for the times? Thanks, Nancy Caton

I am sorry, but I list only Pennsylvania, and that as a place of death. Can someone else provide this information, or is it generally unknown? Thanks, Vince Eugene Schneider wrote: > > Hi vince: Can you tell me, or someone else, where Jan Luckens is buried? I was told years ago by my wifes grandfather, and wrote it down someplace, but I haven't found it yet? Thank you, Gene Schneider... > > ==== ORIGINAL-13 Mailing List ==== > Transcribe Graves, Lookup Data Online, Lookup Data in Publications > Visit Historical Societies, Go to Libraries and FHC Centers, Take Photos > of Appropriate Houses, Stones, Highway Markers, etc. We will love it! > > ============================== > Know the town name but not the county? Look it up at: > http://resources.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/townco.cgi

Jan Lucken's will was proved January 14, 1744 in Philadelphia. (Will book G, p. 157) He lived in Germantown and is buried, as far as can be determined, in the Lower Burial Ground of Germantown, aka the Hood Cemetery. Gene

Hi vince: Can you tell me, or someone else, where Jan Luckens is buried? I was told years ago by my wifes grandfather, and wrote it down someplace, but I haven't found it yet? Thank you, Gene Schneider...

Hi Vince, Of course you know I am a Ready participant... Let me know, I would like a copy... thanks,Cali Cali's German PA, Genealogy http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Falls/3610 I will be putting an updated page at rootsweb soon..There are some errors in the first page I need to remove, or fix.. Thanks,Cali {{{HUGS}}}} ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Hi. I obtained a scanned copy of a brochure mentioning those who died in (was it?) 1919, and with their photographs. Only one name seemed particularly significant to me. It was a Castor, if I recall correctly. Any who are directly related to this line may wish a copy of this brochure (scanned jpegs). I will email it to you if you wish. The only catch is that many email providers will not accept attachments greater than 1.0 megabytes, and some not that large. This file is a bit larger than that. Vince Summers

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/9347/ KIGHT KITE PAGE Cali's German PA, Genealogy http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Falls/3610 I will be putting an updated page at rootsweb soon..There are some errors in the first page I need to remove, or fix.. Thanks,Cali {{{HUGS}}}} ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Hi all, I have been trying to determine the birthplace of Anne Klincken. The abstracts of the records of the Abington Monthly Meeting (LDS #0333428, item 2, p. 331) say that Ann, the daughter of Aret Klinken, was born in "Zoppenburk Germany" on the 24th of the 10 mo. 1683. (Note that in 1732-33 these records had been transcribed from the old book into a new book. Then in 1894 they were abstracted, typed, and bound. This latter is what is on the above film.) William Hull in _William Penn and the Dutch Quakers_ (p. 239) says that "Quaker marriage records of Pennsylvannia" say she was born at "Toppenburk, Germany." Hull then hypothesizes that maybe "Toppenburk" was "Trompenberg" [sic] "a village ... close to Hilversum" in The Netherlands. I have been unable to find either a Zoppenburk or a Toppenburk (or -burgh) in present-day Germany. It just occured to me that (as far as I know) a country named "Germany" did not exist in 1683 or in 1733. So, I wonder if that appellation was added by the abstractor in 1894. The most similar name I have found within present-day Germany is Toppenstedt at 53 deg 16' N and 10 deg 6' E, near Hamburg. This is quite a distance from Krefeld, so seems unlikely to me. If we return to Hull's hypothesis, there is a village today near Hilversum in The Netherlands called Trompenburg. So, has anyone looked for birth or baptism records for Anne in these places? Does anyone have any better candidates? Regards, Howard [email protected]

That is the WONDERFUL Side of the Genealogy that makes everything worth while.. Sharing and helping others and sharing resources and time.. YIIIPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Greart job Eric!.. Well Lynn, I have OpdenGreaff, Levering, Styreprs, Luken, suppllee, InDenHooven( Dehaven) TYSON, Stackhouse, umm Most of them and Zimmerman that is how my family ties into everyone. Congrats, and start sharing and asking, We love new cuzzies <G> Happy Hunting!~ Cali =) Cali's German PA, Genealogy http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Falls/3610 I will be putting an updated page at rootsweb soon..There are some errors in the first page I need to remove, or fix.. Thanks,Cali {{{HUGS}}}} ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Joyce & David: Peter Luckens m. Gaynor Evans 10/20/1719 @ Abington Meeting. They had 10 children. Daughter Gaynor m. ca. 1759, Abel Dungan in Horsham, Pa. They had 2 children; Benjamin & Peter Dungan. they later moved to Harford Co. MD near Bel Air, MD, ca. 1790. There are other Lukens & Dungan's who moved to that area and Baltimore, MD. Hope that this helps? Gene Schneider... ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [ORIGINAL-13] Fw: Gaynor Lukens, d/o Peter Lukens > Joyce: > > There is a Harford County, Maryland. It is a rural county located a bit north > of Baltimore, I think, although I would have to look at an Atlas to be sure > of its precise location. > > > David Updegraff > > > ==== ORIGINAL-13 Mailing List ==== > Parts of the old Listbot Original 13 Archives are available as zipped > files, with more to come. Please contact Vince Summers to > receive these .html letters. About 1100 of over 2000 are available now! > > ============================== > Genealogy calendars, guestbooks and more: > Visit RootsWeb's Resource Center at > http://resources.rootsweb.com/ >

In a message dated 00-08-31 13:45:15 EDT, [email protected] writes: << I have a Benjamin Harper (no dates) who married Amy Shoemaker b. 1761, d/o Benjamin Shoemaker 1727-1811 and Mary Comly 1731-1793. >> Hi, Lea, In going through some old saved mail, I noticed the above comment at the bottom of one of your emails. I've recently come across some pedigree charts submitted by Erik Conard (thanks, Erik!) to the Ancestral File on www.familysearch.com, that include an Esther SHOEMAKER b. 2 April 1732 in Shoemakertown, Chelten, PA, and m. 26 Mar 1748 Abington, Philadelphia, PA to Isaac TYSON. Esther was the daughter of Isaac Shoemaker (b. 23 Oct 1700) and his wife Dorothy PENROSE (b. 1703). Esther's birthdate of 1732 would have put her in the proper age range to have been a contemporary of your Benjamin (b. 1727). Do you have any idea if they were siblings/cousins? My brother-in-law Allen has asked me to find what I can on his family of which he knows extremely little. Erik has been invaluable in direct-line connecting Allen's mother Joy CONARD with Thones KUNDERS, so you can imagine my delight when I found these pedigree charts with information on Allen's other ancestors! Lots of new surnames to research: SHOEMAKER, TYSON, WALN/WALL, PENROSE, LEECH, ASHMEAD, RUDD, WHEEL, KNIGHT, ANTILL, JAMES, HINKSON, POTTS, DIMERY, WILLIAMS, ENGLISH, BROM, SAXBEE, DONALDSON... I only wish I could return the favor to Erik, which is very difficult to do since Allen wasn't even sure of his own mother's death date and knew nothing of her parents other than the fact that they were Robert Allen CONARD who married Aline Mallard RUCKER. He didn't know when they were born or when/where they died, etc. I gather that Allen's family didn't discuss family history much, and Joy died of Alzheimer's when Allen was in his 30s and just starting to get interested. I'd like to thank, publicly, Erik Conard for his PRICELESS help to me in researching the Conard/Kunders family. Lynn Marshall [email protected] P.S.: Now I just have to figure out the relationship between Allen's Matthias Tyson (whose father was Reynier) who m. Mary Potts, and my sister's Matthias Tyson (whose father was Cornelius) who m. Barbara Sellen...I joined this list to find out more about my Tysons, and I guess the time has come! researching: Haldeman, Kunders, Manz, Op den Graeff, Pannebecker, Root, Seyfret/Safried, Tyson, Umstat, Wenger, Yaeger, Yarnall...amongst others!

Maureen, we all owe your Aunt Dorothy and your Streeper kin an untold amount for having the goodness to employ Herr Niepoth et al. those many years ago. Erik Conard, user.

At 06:18 PM 9/20/2000 EDT, [email protected] wrote: >Hi, Liese: > Dorothy Streeper paid to have Neipoth's document translated many years ago. I'm sure it is in my files. However, I won't have access to them for another week, maybe two. I'll report later. Maurine Ward >haven't had time to get them translated yet. You know so much more about >this, Liese, or anyone else on the list, do you think it is worthwhile to get >them translated? Or are the translations available adequate for most >purposes? One of the documents is in Neipoth's handwriting, as best I can >tell, and is a bit difficult to even read, let alone translate. But if you >feel it would be valuable, I can find someone here to get that translation >done and send you copies, or I can send you copies of the original German >versions. > > >David Updegraff > >

This is not to be taken seriously, even if a surname attached to the original 13 was involved... I rented Twilight Zones tonight. In it was a leader for advertisers. It referred to an episode where the Devil was called various things, including Mr. Scratch, and even ... Yup! Mr. Cadwallader! Vince ":O>)

Joyce: There is a Harford County, Maryland. It is a rural county located a bit north of Baltimore, I think, although I would have to look at an Atlas to be sure of its precise location. David Updegraff

-Subject: Gaynor Lukens, d/o Peter Lukens Anyone have more info on the following, that could clear a few things up. Here's what I have: Lukens, Gaynor: was born in Horsham, Montgomery Co. PA abt 1739. Gaynor died in Harford on unknown date. Gaynor md (Abel) Jesse Dungan abt 1759 in Horsham, Montg. Co. PA. Gaynor was d/o Peter Lukens and Gaynor Evans. Where is Harford? Or is this a misprint and should be Hartford? Is Harford a city or county and what State is it in? Thanks, Joyce

Perhaps a hundred descendants of Thones Kunders alone have been to Krefeld. I have a couple dozen cards from there sent me by descendants during the past thirty years. When the 300th anniversary of the Germans to America occurred, we had a big fest here in Denver. The Vice-Chancellor of Germany was here and we visited some. The late Athlyn Luzier and I had a booth set up with our files. Over 30,000 descendants and collateral kin of Thones Kunders were spread out over three tables. (Now isn't that a wonderfully written sentence...I am a high school graduate, you know) The German officials were highly impressed that some rustic mountain folks like us had gathered so much. These were only on Kunders' descendants, too! Anyone from Krefeld who does not know of the many Amerikaners who have been there must have been brain dead. I would guess that 500 or so have visited in the past forty years. So, we of the "Original 13" should be no strangers to Krefeld! And, this is not as good as a trip to Ireland, but by all means, if you can, G O!

Hi, Liese: Sorry I haven't been in touch sooner, but as soon as we got back from our trip, we were back in the thick of summer school, getting school ready for Fall, and a surprise gall bladder attack which left yours truly heading for the second surgery in six months! All better now (well, mostly!). We had a GREAT time in Europe! Five countries in 21 days was a bit much, to be sure, but we did have a ball. We started in England visiting friends in the little town of Colchester, about an hour from London. From there we went to Holland for a couple of days, then Krefeld, then South to Lake Lucerne, Switzerland; back to Germany for a visit with our German friends in their hometown of Kamen; on to Hamburg for a day where we caught a plane to Stockholm to visit our Swedish friends for about six days, then back to Holland for a couple of days in Amsterdam and the flight home. A lot in a short time! Our visit in Krefeld was a trip and a half! It is a very interesting small city, quite industrialized, and not very much happening culturally that we could see in our short time there. I was not able to "steal" a phone book, but I do have a contact there who might be able to do so for us. Our first night there, we went to dinner at a local corner tavern and struck up a conversation with a young couple seated at the same table as we were. When he learned we were American tourists, he wanted to know "What are you doing in Krefeld; everyone here wants to leave!" He knew of the 13 Families and the history, and was somewhat impressed that someone had returned to visit. One day while my wife and our friends that we traveled with did other things, I took the car and went looking for the "Stadtarchiv" - that is, the city archives. Lo and behold, I found them with essentially no German and lousy maps! Anyway, I found a staffer who had some English who helped me locate someone who had a bit of information about the Op den Graeffs. Turns out that what I got was the German version of Neipoth's article on the Op den Graeffs and a second article on the 13 families. I did purchase copies of them, but haven't had time to get them translated yet. You know so much more about this, Liese, or anyone else on the list, do you think it is worthwhile to get them translated? Or are the translations available adequate for most purposes? One of the documents is in Neipoth's handwriting, as best I can tell, and is a bit difficult to even read, let alone translate. But if you feel it would be valuable, I can find someone here to get that translation done and send you copies, or I can send you copies of the original German versions. As I may have mentioned, both my wife and I are involved with barbershop harmony singing. She belongs to Sweet Adelines and I sing with a chorus of SPEBSQSA. As we know, the Internet has become a great point of contact for many purposes, including genealogy AND barbershop harmony, and to make a long story short, we located a German Barbershop singer before we went over, and made contact with him. He was immensely helpful in planning our stay in Germany. He lives about an hour from Krefeld and he and his family met us in Krefeld. We went for dinner to an old-time German beergarden, and had a wonderful time there. We did visit the Burg Linn Museum, but could find no one who knew anything about the windows, so perhaps that is a lost cause. Someone sometime may have more luck, but I was not that person! We also traversed "Philadelphiastrasse" and took pictures of the notice hanging from the street signs at each intersection with yours truly's ugly mug there to show reality (or frighten the children or something)! We had read of a place called "Philadelphia House," supposedly constructed to commemorate the emigration of the 13 families, but had no luck finding it. While I was researching the archives, our friend walked Philadelphiastrasse from one end to the other looking for Philadelphia House, to no avail. Even though the products of the journey to Krefeld were somewhat slim, it was a thrill to be in the location from which our common ancestors emigrated. I do hope to return someday, and hope to learn a bit more German so that a followup visit could be somewhat more productive. If time had permitted, I had wanted to try to visit Aldekirk, not far from Krefeld, but it did not permit. Again, I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. Let me know your preferences on this. David Updegraff

Here is an interesting Original-13 and Levering connection I found in a book the history of Germantown Among the first to become interested in Penns Project were a number of those active in Spencers Pietistic Circle in Frankfort on the Main. One was Jacob Van De Walle a Merchant who had helped welcome Penn to Frankfort in 1677. Also.....A farewell gift given to Pastorious, a gun from Van De Walle Now Wigard Leverings Father Rosier was Married to Elizabeth Van De Walle b.21 May 1626 Westfalia Germany daughter of Jacobus Van De Walle also had a brother who was Jacob who was probably the merchant who gave Pastorious the gun. Bill Cannon