I Made a Mistake... >>>> Beeber's TWP with the names of people who owed land in 1708 ect... and > RIGHT NEXT to Christopher Zimmerman on the right is a SCHOLL, Well > Christopher's Mother was SCHALL who married Peterman, but is there any > chance this man got his name confused on the deed or that it was his > mother's land and he took over since she had died by then?<<<<< Christopher's MOTHER WAS Maria Magdalena also, {SCHAAL/SCHALL) ZIMMERMAN but she died in 1725 in Germantown, it was THE SISTER ( Maria Magdalena) who married Ludwig Biderman.. <-- I have seen his name as Beiderman/Peiterman also.. the had Hannah and Christian... As Far as i know.. No one has Traced Maria's Line of Zimmerman, and of course they where not NAMED ZIMMERMAN since she was a SHE. Cali's German PA, Genealogy http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Falls/3610 I will be putting an updated page at rootsweb soon..There are some errors in the first page I need to remove, or fix.. Thanks,Cali {{{HUGS}}}} ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

I may have not been who you where talking to, but I was told to CHECK CASSELL since i can find NOTHING on CATTELL... Mary CATTELL ( widow SHAW) was born cir 1810 and died in PA February 17, 1847... she married John Zimmerman b. April 13, 1808 sorry if this wasn't what you where Reffering to But that is how the Cassel Sujestion came to me.. Thanks, cali Cali's German PA, Genealogy http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Falls/3610 I will be putting an updated page at rootsweb soon..There are some errors in the first page I need to remove, or fix.. Thanks,Cali {{{HUGS}}}} ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

I have named above, KULP BLAKER MILLER ROBERTS and a FewBLEEKER/BLACKER I am wondering how far down your Roberts go? are they Robert Caldwallder > Caldwallder Roberts > Morris Roberts> Susanna Roberts... I am Particularrly looking for more information on Susannah and her Marriage, siblings and children... Also... I Mental Question.... In the first four Generations.. Does anyone have the Family EARNHART EANRHARDT HARAHADT?? Married to a Catherine? they had a Daughter named Sophia who married Henry Rittenhouse.. The had Hannah, and Christian. Catherine's Husband died UNKN EARNHARDT and Sophia and her Mother Catherine ( maiden name UNKN,} but there where not many Catherine's During 1690-1710 ish. Susanna Roberts THEN married Jacob Zimmerman c 1710 Son of Jacob Christopher Zimmerman and Sybella ( Cibella Sivilla) VanFossen Once again, i will also throw out... Anna Stackhouse b. cir 1688 m. Andrew SUPPLEE b. cir 1888 s/o Andris. Anna may opnly be PART of her name.. so just because it doens't say ANNA somewhere, this girl Did marry Andrew and she died and Farm on Upper Merion, Now Mongomery CO. PA vault in Morris City cemetery My Family has Listed this Anna as our G grandmother, so Of course I would like to know more about the family... One person doesn't have me in HIS Database, but if we are SUPPLLE, Don't we all come from HANCE? or did he have half siblings also??? Thanks Much, Cali Cali's German PA, Genealogy http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Falls/3610 I will be putting an updated page at rootsweb soon..There are some errors in the first page I need to remove, or fix.. Thanks,Cali {{{HUGS}}}} ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

This is to pass along sad news. My dear (distant) cousin and co=researcher Harry Dunkleberger passed away Monday, Oct 9, at age 86. I am sending this msg from his computer because there may be some of you with whom he has excanged messages. Dunk was an amazing man - always willing to share and help others with their reserch. I don't know how I can do it without him, but I have made a commitment to finish the book we have been working on, "European Origins of the Dunkelberger Family." I will now send the message to "unsubscribe" for him. Drusilla C. Sheldon [email protected]

Well, I guess I am supposed to respond and get all heated up about Gene's comments. I do not feel like getting heated up. Anyone who wants can come and go as they like, but since I have never mistreated the list, I suspect they will tend to remain. I do hope that, Gene, you will decide what you want, and then take action. If you wish to leave, I have never stopped you. I have always been grateful for the good posts you have made, and have expressed that. I will say this. If any more disruption of the lists occurs by your posts along this line, well, I will be forced by your own actions to do what so many lists before have found it necessary to do -- with regrets, whether you know it or not, old fellow... Vince

You know that Rootsweb has many mail-lists. I had subscribed to a few: Philly-roots, PAPHILAD, Quaker-roots, and for a very short time, Philly-Talk.. They are all run by control freaks who delight in rules and in telling people what to do and how to do it. I wish to divorce myself from the entire mess. Since Original-13 in on Rootsweb, I will leave it also. Previously, Original-13 was in another group. I do not want to support Rootsweb. We could try to convince Vince to move the list but he supports the "owners" on the other Rootsweb lists. I will, of course, talk to Ancestry.com and try to convince them to take control over these list-owners. I am now on a list called [email protected] There are no rules and anyone can say what he likes. We are adding genealogy to the mix and new members are coming on board every day. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 12:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ORIGINAL-13] The burials of Thones Kunders and his son I have tried to decipher your crytpic note about "leaving Rootsweb." What is it? Perhaps your complaint is mine, too. It is too good a group to tear up. What does Vince say, or does he know? Can we re-name or re-group? I am in a quandary. Competent curmudgeons are hard to come by. Erik

I'm hoping someone on this list can help me with some birth dates and correct spouses. Taken from "Pennsylvania Marriages Prior to 1790" I have an Ann Updegraff married to Jacob Clemens on Sep 14 1771. I'm trying to figure out which Jacob Clemens she was married to. I checked out the Clemens Mail list and got 2 different answers but no one knew for sure. Help ===== Karen Dartmouth, N.S. Can. [ CLEMENS, BROX, UPPER, STREET, FREE, DI CHRISTOFORO/CHRISTOPHER, TOBER ] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/

Howard you are coming up with some goodies! I had kinda thrown up my hands in despair, as I continued to see references to Thones Kunders dying in the fall of 1729, in Dec 1729, late in 1729, all without sources, but consistent key words like "inoffensive in character" and his "hospitable" nature, giving me a clue that they all lifted parts from some previous chronicle. You have gotten closer if not at the actual report--and we thank you for that. Madtis Conders (how he signed it at least once) did die in 1726, and your 1725 reference is close, perhaps in that no-mans land, old style vs. new style. In fact, you likely have a better handle on it than any of us--now...pay attention all! It might be good for us to concur on a couple of times now, and I nominate you, Howard, as presiding officer...can we agree on these, what say ye, dear readers: 1. Approximate death of Thones Kunders, aka Dennis Conrad, Cunrads 2. Approximate death of Madtis Conders, aka Matthew Cunrads, #2 son of TK Howard, you do good work. Gene, you awake? This is a fine young man and when we pass the torch he might likely be a logical candidate. Cheers, Erik Conard

Hi all, Most secondary sources I have seen that describe the death of Thones Kunders say something like latter part of 1729. I have assumed that they based this on the fact that his will was proved on 20 Dec 1729. I did not find any info re. his death or burial in the abstract of the Abington Friends MM from the LDS. William Hull in _William Penn and the Dutch Quakers_ on p. 220 says: "He died, according to a comtemporary Quaker journalist, in 1729." There is a footnote that this refers to Thomas Chalkley's Journal. Today I finally got to a library that has a copy of the above journal (or diary), published in 1808. On p. 209 the date is the ninth month of 1729 and Chalkley is at sea coming back from Barbados. Later on that page he "proceeded home, [which I think was at Frankford, now a neighborhood of Philadelphia] where we arrived the latter end of the month." P. 210: "After I came home from this voyage, in the small stay I was on shore, I was divers times at meetings at Philadelphia and Frankfort, and was also at Germantown, at the burial of our ancient friend Dennis Cunrad, who was one of the first settlers of this town (as I understand the first meeting of friends, for worship in it; was kept at his house); he was a man of an inoffensive life, much given to hospitality, and left a good report behind him. The meeting was large, and many of the first settlers were there." ... "The latter end of the 10th month" Chalkley was visited by two men from New York. Then he sailed again and "left the Capes the first of the 11th month" and went to Barbados. So, I conclude from the above that Thones was buried in the first part of December 1729 (and before the 20th). And it is clear that he was buried at Germantown and not Haddonfield or anywhere else. Looking through earlier pages to see if there was anything else interesting I found this on page 158. The year is 1725: "On the 20th of the twelfth month, the first day of the week, I was at Abington meeting... The next day I was at Germantown, at the burial of a son of Dennis Conrad, at which was also our friend Abigail Bowles." >From Erik's message of the 10th, I assume this is Dennis' son Madtis. So now we have a first-hand account that Madtis was buried on 21 Feb 1725/26 in Germantown. I'm not sure if the above dates are common knowledge or not; but they are more precise than any I've seen elsewhere as well as being from a contemporary source. (Chalkley died in 1741; so he can't help us re. Conraed and Anthony who died in 1747.) Regards, Howard [email protected]

I unearthed, quite by accident, a strange search engine that searches the Pennsylvania Bulletin published in Harrisburg, PA. I do not know if it was intentional that this is accessible, to be quite frank. I tested it using the word Updegraff. Got two responses for abandoned or unclaimed property. Hey, maybe you can find a relative, or maybe you can gain some property... who knows? http://www.pabulletin.com/cgi-bin/pabull/infosearch.pl Vince

thanks Cali Cali ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Would it be Possible for as many as Possible to Search their Ori 13 for the Female child name CATHERINE.. probably born about 1710.. I have one that Married an EARNHARDT ( HARAHADT} <--? never seen beisde this marriage... and they had a Daughter named Sophia.. Searching for the Grooms Family and Dates on Catherine.. He Died at some Point, and then married Jacob Zimmerman also Cir 1710 <--- not set in stone either.. His Parents where Christopher Zimmerman and Sibella VanFossen... Three of Jabos Children married Suppllee, two are for Sure From Christopher Zimmerman and Deborah Suppllee/d/o Hance supplee and Magdalena Dehaven. this family was Extremely married into the Orig 13 for the First 5+ generations, and I am Hoping to find out more about his first wife Catherine ( maiden name UNKN) EARNHARDT ( HARAHARDT) ZIMMERMAN She would be a D-I-L to Sibella ( CIVILLA) Van Fossen Thanks Munches.. Cali if Dates on Sibella and Jacob or Catherine and her first marriage.. Hopefully what happened to hubby, and who her parents where.. Will be Gratefull to have. Cali's German PA, Genealogy http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Falls/3610 I will be putting an updated page at rootsweb soon..There are some errors in the first page I need to remove, or fix.. Thanks,Cali {{{HUGS}}}} ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Thank you.. Cali Cali's German PA, Genealogy http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Falls/3610 I will be putting an updated page at rootsweb soon..There are some errors in the first page I need to remove, or fix.. Thanks,Cali {{{HUGS}}}} ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

This was sent to me, Folks, by a person who has not told me it is OK to post to the list. Hence, I am not identifying them. Yet, I am sure that some of you will have the answers, and I wish to help them. So in this singular case, will you post back to me, please, addressing the answer to me, and I will send it on, and the person themself can then get back to you? Thanks, Vince ********************************************************************* Ann Patch married Samuel Derickson Jan 1, 1822, from that I have R.P. Derickson who was buried in Chicago. I am looking for the other end. Ann Patch is the daughter of Capt. Richard Patch and Margaret Updegraff, they wee married in 1795 in Pittsburgh, PA. They moved to Meadville in 1797 and had 7 Children, She was born in 1780 and died Oct./ 20. 1859 in Meadville, PA Richard Patch wa born in 1777 On the Atlantic Ocean, and died in Meadville Mar. 15,1839. Amongst other things he had a keel boat and hence the Capt. I notice your interest in Jere Updegraff from Co. F, in the 45th Penn. and so I wondered if there was a connection. My interest now is in Updegraff, Derickson, and Patch.

Is anyone researching the SLIVER family of York County? Dawn Sliver Bastounes "He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings." KJV 1611

Hi... We have recently learned that our Van Leuvnigh (VanLeuvenigh) family came to the Germantown area shortly after colonization by the O-13 group. Is anyone on the list familiar with John or Henrich Van Leuvnigh or their descendants? We know that some of the family ended up in De. and some in Bucks Co. Thanks, Bev W.

Griffith Jones' wife, who has been identified as "Elizabeth Jones" and the wife of Leonard Streeper, "Anken Streper," are both listed as being buried in the Friends site according to the previously-mentioned typed manuscript "An account of Burials at Friends Burying Ground in Germantown Since the Beginning of the Year 1747." One might assume that Jones and Streeper, the husbands, had pre-deceased their wives in that their names did not appear. Elizabeth was buried 24 Mar 1757 and Ann on 2 May 1752. We have presumed that Henry Cunred and his wife Katherine Streeper, he being the fifth son of Kunders, were buried at Plymouth Meeting as they belonged there. The erudite Judge Conrad offers this, too, in his 1891 treatise on the Kunders family. Cunraed Cunraeds, plus his son Anthony, both dying in 1747, lived in Worcester township, were likely put there, though Cunraed's two wives may be in the Friends location, the first wife dying after 1710 and the second in the 1730s. Good chance the Samuel Powell family in the Friends one, too, as Powells seem to have buried there at later dates noted in the typed manuscript. As Madtis Conders, #2 son of Kunders, died in 1726 and he did not seem to be a subscriber, he may not be there. Further, little record seems to exist of him as being a Friend--perhaps he may have drifted away from the Quakers. Howard, you have done good works here. Thank you for all of us. Erik Conard

Hi all, Thanks to Gene for his reply re. the 2 burial grounds and that Thones Kunders is not listed with the Lower Burial Ground. And also for the quote from H.C. Conrad that Thones contributed to the building of the Germantown Friends meeting house in 1705. At 07:32 PM 10/1/00 -0400, Howard Swain wrote: >Is the earliest record of the Upper a list of contributors to the >front wall in 1724? >Does anyone have this list? >Does it include Thones Kunders (Dennis Conrad), who died in 1729? Thanks to some chance events I have run across an article that can answer my questions above. That article is by Peter D. Keyser, M.D.: "A History of the Upper Germantown Burial Ground" in the Pennsylvania Magazine of History and Biography, vol 8 (1884), pp 414-426. According to Keyser, Paul Wulff granted 1/2 acre in 1724 for the burial ground. The Quakers in 1705 and Mennonites in 1706 had each built a meeting house and each had a graveyard. So, this new one (in 1724) was for people of other religions, ie. open to all. For reasons I failed to note, they needed to build a front wall, which was begun in May 1724. And they took subscriptions to pay for the construction. "It was conditioned that all subscribers were to receive the right to bury in the graveyard at any time." I counted 73 names on the list of subscribers. These included: John Cunrad Dennis Cunrads (Tunis Cunders) Cunrad Cunrads Griffith Jones Anthony Klincken Margaret Tissen (Teisen?) John Strepers Anthony Tunes Samuel Kastner John, Daniel, & Jonathon Potts Hermanes Kuster Conrad Kuster There was no account of burials up to 1756, but 7 tombstones from before 1756 had been found (in 1884). The earliest was 1726 then 1735. I didn't recognize any of the names. He then lists some names from the record book after 1756. In a companion article in vol 9 pp 82-88, he lists inscriptions from the Upper Germantown Burying Ground. So, now it seems to me the question re. Thones Kunders is: Did he intend to be buried in the Upper Burial Ground when he, two of his sons, and one son-in-law contributed? Or did they just do it to support the community? I don't suppose anyone knows where John, Cunrad, and Griffith are buried either. (If someone could show they were all in the Upper Burial Ground, then I would guess Thones was there too.) Regards, Howard [email protected]

I have started the Manayunk mailing list : [email protected] . My name is Bill Cannon and I'm the list owner. This list is for anything about Manayunk so feel free to post and tell your freinds and family. I have just put up a Website for Manayunk Family Trees if anyone has a webpage I will put a link on it. http://members.tripod.com/~microcrack/ManayunkFamilies.html is the web address for the page

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------EC1D3175EA4CDFD72EDC474B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's another automated search result re Abraham Lukens - this Abraham is too late for me to have him, but someone else might be looking. Again, I don't know about the post, just passing it on, for what it's worth Nancy Caton (Lukens, Gerritt, Streypers, Cunrads, Tyson) --------------EC1D3175EA4CDFD72EDC474B Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <[email protected]> Received: from pml.rootsweb.com ([63.92.80.44]) by hazard.mail.mindspring.net (Mindspring Mail Service) with ESMTP id stbmir.al6.37kb01i for <[email protected]>; Sat, 30 Sep 2000 08:19:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from [email protected]) by pml.rootsweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA01996; Sat, 30 Sep 2000 05:19:38 -0700 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 05:19:38 -0700 Message-Id: <[email protected]> To: [email protected] From: [email protected] Precedence: junk Subject: PML Search Result matching Lukens OR Luckens ANDNOT x-loop/ORIGINAL-13-L X-Loop: [email protected] X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 ===================================================================== A result of your requested PML search. To refine or cancel this search, please visit http://pml.rootsweb.com/ ===================================================================== Source: [email protected] Subject: [PHILLY-ROOTS-L] LUKENS Philip, of Upper Dublin, left a Will, RW 1749, Book 3, p. 469. No wife is given & the property is divided into 9 equal shares. Will dated 23 Aug 1811 & proved 31 Mar 1813. Henry SHEETZ was the executor. Witnesses: Abraham LUKENS & Catherine HOCKER. Gerre Engard Byrd --------------EC1D3175EA4CDFD72EDC474B--