>Just a little clarification for you regarding Jim Hill's posting. I >can't say for sure what he actually meant, since I don't know him at >all, but the Empire Builder's name or function has nothing at all to do >with UPRR or BN or GN. It's the name of the Amtrak run, and I think it >does actually go from Portland to Chicago. Jim's posting was quite a mix >of regular RR lines, but he apparently forgot to mention that he was >also talking about Amtrak's run on all those different lines' tracks. > >A railroad brat, >-- >Cheri Dohnal >editor@historysavers.com Sorry, I was not forgetting Amtrak. I was ignoring Amtrak. It has done more to destroy history than create it. [The belief that the historic name should be a route rather than a train is just one example. Their definition of service is another.] The original topic of this discussion was the first trains to Oregon. Decades before Amtrak. Railroading did not start with Amtrak. Amtrak is a recent player in all this and is using some traditional names, but not in the same manner. There was a rich history of competition between railroad lines, each with their own star attraction - GN's Empire Builder, UP's Portland Rose and California Zephyr, and SP's Coast Starlight, and many others. Ask any old railroader if there was any passenger travel before Amtrak and be prepared for a long lecture. Jim Hill was nicknamed the Empire Builder for his railroading efforts. The Great Northern superliner (the train, not the route) that ran from Seattle to Minneapolis then Chicago was called the Empire Builder with the mountain goat symbol, etc. It had everything to do with the railroad, because there was much competition between lines, each with their own star attraction. Dome cars, scenic calendars, etc. Union Pacific ran the Portland Rose and California Zephyr trains along its Pioneer Route from Portland to Ogden and San Francisco to Chicago (joining at Ogden). Today's Amtrak has taken over all passenger travel, so the routes are no longer associated with a specific railroad. All of their trains look the same, so there is no longer a distinction between trains. [That is sad.] It calls their northern route the Empire Builder. A train from Portland that joins that route at Pasco shares the name. The Amtrak route from Portland to Ogden is the Oregon Pioneer. jim