I am researching the family of Lavera Middlebrook born about 1889-1905. She married E.P. Peltier from Oregon, most likey the La Grande area about 1920, where she had grown up. They left Oregon for Santa Barbara in 1922 and had a restaurant there in his name. Lavera's mother was Effie, who later married Mr. Ed Leach and went to Santa Barbara from La Grande with her daughter and husband. Lavera and Mr. Peltier moved back to Ashland, OR. as of 1937, and may have later died there. If you have any info on any of these people, please let me know. Thank you. Lillian Kathleen Martin.

Hello List: I had sent a message to the list earlier thanking David for giving me information on Haystack Cemetery in Wheeler County. However, I have not seen the message come through so thought I would send it again. I want to thank all of those who responded about the cemetery. I have found that the Oregon list is one of the most helpful of the many, many lists to which I subscribe. Now, if there are any Carsner/Casner descendants/researchers/people who lurk about in cyber space, I would like to hear from you. My Casner/Carsner family migrated from MO/IA to OR beginning in 1852, and the last arriving in OR in 1862. There were 12-13 brothers and one sister (in addition to the mother who had been widowed in 1847 in IA. Many settled in OR, some went to WA, some to CA; several of them struck it rich in the CA mines. At least five of them went to AZ in 1875 where two remained; two were murdered in west TX in 1877, the fifth was a wonderer. I have extensive information that I am willing share; have collected some wonderful photos. All the families has most interesting lives, many have tragic circumstances, but they were survivors. It appears when the split occured in the family circa 1870-75, those that remained in OR/WA changed the spelling to CARSNER; those that moved on to AZ kept CASNER. Anyone researching/descending from this line interested in hearing more? Contact me direct.

David: Thank you for the name of the cemetery - so Haystack it is. It makes sense that it is in Wheeler County, as his folks lived in Wheeler County. He died from 3rd degree burns as a result of an auto accident on the highway 9 miles outside of Condon on the state highway. Thanks for the information. > Haystack Cemetery is in Wheeler County, northeast of Spray, OR, > southeast of Condon. Wheeler County is south of Gilliam County. > > > He died in Gilliam County, OR on 8-16-1935 and is buried in a cemetery in/near Condon, OR. The name of the cemetery appears to be Haystack Cemetery. > > > > Could someone on the list advise me if there is a cemetery by that name in/near Condon, OR.

Was transcribing to deposit in archives later.... What happened to Revenue Cemetery, in Sandy, Clackamas Co. Oregon? the GNIS and GeoGen listed no such cemetery. Original transcription was done in 1955. W. David Samuelsen

Haystack Cemetery is in Wheeler County, northeast of Spray, OR, southeast of Condon. Wheeler County is south of Gilliam County. W. David Samuelsen Elizabeth Freeman wrote: > > I have received an Oregon Certificate of Death for one of my Carsner line. It provides quite a bit of information but I am unable to read the name of the cemetery where he is buried. > > He died in Gilliam County, OR on 8-16-1935 and is buried in a cemetery in/near Condon, OR. The name of the cemetery appears to be Haystack Cemetery. > > Could someone on the list advise me if there is a cemetery by that name in/near Condon, OR. > > Thank you kindly for response. > > ==== OREGON Mailing List ==== > Welcome to the OREGON LIST > To Search the OREGON-L or leave the lists use this link to the Oregon-L > web site http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/usa/OR/misc.html > Oregon Archives http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

I have received an Oregon Certificate of Death for one of my Carsner line. It provides quite a bit of information but I am unable to read the name of the cemetery where he is buried. He died in Gilliam County, OR on 8-16-1935 and is buried in a cemetery in/near Condon, OR. The name of the cemetery appears to be Haystack Cemetery. Could someone on the list advise me if there is a cemetery by that name in/near Condon, OR. Thank you kindly for response.

Hi, There is a Haystack Cemetery. I have been to a funeral there a long time ago. I could be wrong, as it is dim in my memory, but I think that it is nearer to Spray, Oregon. Colleen Kitch GuyCol@webtv.net

not so fast. Camas Prairie where Nez Perce Reservation has Catholic missions that early. As for large scale division of Wasco co population, it actually was 1862 and 1864. At the time Baker and Grant counties had very large number of miners and ranchers in short time (settlements started rather fast, first settlements were in 1862), leading to quick divisions. As for the rest of Wasco County, the other counties still had small populations and divisions were done due to LONG DISTANCE, rather than population. David Kevin Fraley wrote: > > Dave, > You have always been good at differing, no need to beg. None of > the places you mentioned were ever served or governed by Wasco County. > In the case of the Whitman Mission and Lapwai (Nez Perce) locations, > none of these were ever in Wasco County, and none had permanent white > habitation prior to the late 50's. There are numerous locations named > Camas Prairie throughout the Northwest, the earliest permanently > settled (in the early 40's) is near Fort Vancouver, and certainly had > nothing to do with Wasco. In the case of the far southeast of present > Idaho, the few early Mormon pioneers of that area certainly saw > themselves as part of Utah in 1858-9, and would have done their > business with Cache County, Utah Territory, which is in fact where > they were enumerated in 1860. They would absolutely not have had any > business with Wasco County in The Dalles all those hundreds of miles > away, just as they never did business with the Washington Territory > counties which took over there for Wasco on the maps. > Yes, Umatilla was formed from Wasco in 1862, and took a number > of people around Milton-Freewater away, but the first large scale > division of Wasco population did not occur until 1882 with the > formation of Crook County, which included present Jefferson and > Deschutes as well as a chunk of Wheeler. Yes, over two decades > later..... > > Kevin Fraley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "W David Samuelsen" <dsam@sampubco.com> > To: <OREGON-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 5:24 PM > Subject: Re: [OREGON] Large counties downsizing > > > I beg to differ. There were settlements before 1859 - in Nez Perce, > > Idaho already as early as 1843 in Camas Prairie. Then there's > > the settlement at Franklin, Idaho. Not to mention the Whitman > Mission > > settlement that changed over to Walla Walla within short time. > > > > And "decades later" as you said so from Wasco, I beg to differ also > > > > Baker County 1862 > > Grant County 1864 > > Umatilla County 1862 > > Lake County 1874 > > > > Records go back that early. > > > > David Samuelsen > > > > Kevin Fraley wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > While its "official" boundaries for a couple years ending in > 1859 > > > did indeed include a large part of present Idaho, a small corner > of > > > present Wyoming, and a tiny sliver of present Montana, there was > not > > > at any time during this period any white population in any of > those > > > areas. In fact, the entire "county" prior to statehood in 1859 > > > consisted of a handful of families making their livings from the > small > > > army post at Fort Dalles, all living within yards of the post or > on > > > it. There were so few white men that the county offices > > > (commissioner, sheriff, auditor, accessor, etc.) had to be > assigned, > > > two or three offices per man. It is certainly not true that > people > > > searching for early Idaho pioneers can find records in Wasco > County. > > > Several Oregon counties were formed decades later from Wasco, and > in > > > these cases some old records may exist in Wasco. Washington > Territory > > > was formed in 1853 (before Wasco County), Idaho Territory was > formed > > > from Washington Territory in 1863. > > > > > > Kevin Fraley > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Pete Wasser" <petew@netcnct.net> > > > To: <OREGON-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 11:39 AM > > > Subject: [OREGON] Large counties downsizing > > > > > > > Karen, > > > > In the book I quoted from is this explanation: "1850, Clackamas, > > > Marion > > > > and Linn extended by statute to the Rocky Mountains, but the > 1850 > > > census > > > > population lay west of the Cascade Mountains." > > > > > > > > I live in Wasco county. It covered four states including Idaho, > > > Montana > > > > and Wyoming. Wasco county was the largest county in the U.S. > People > > > > unaware of its history would not know to contact the > governmental > > > > offices here in Wasco county to search for records of their > > > ancestors in > > > > newer counties that were formed later. The records are not sent > to > > > the > > > > newly formed counties, they remain with the original counties. > > > > > > > > In 1860 Idaho was considered a part of the "Washington > Territory". > > > It > > > > became "Idaho Territory" around 1870. By 1870 Wasco county had > been > > > > downsized and the counties of Umatilla, Union, Grant and Baker > were > > > > formed in eastern Oregon. > > ==== OREGON Mailing List ==== > Welcome to the OREGON LIST > To Search the OREGON-L or leave the lists use this link to the Oregon-L > web site http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/usa/OR/misc.html > Oregon Archives http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

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Surnames: Howe, Woolley, Ellis, Holbrook, McGuire, Dirksen Dorothy Purlina Howe Woolley, 98, a resident of The Dalles, died at a local care center on Tuesday, February 19, 2002. She was born August 2, 1903, in Donnybrook, North Dakota, the second of three children to John D. and Amy (Ellis) Holbrook. She moved with her family to Albany (Oregon) at age six. She married Lyman J. Howe of Brownsville (Oregon) and they later divorced. She married Dr. Kenneth C. Woolley in June 1940 and they lived in Portland. Dr. Woolley died in 1951 and she later married Robert McGuire in 1961, who died less than a year later. She worked as a receptionist for Hendrix and McGuire Opticians and later Dr. Keith Clisby. She was well known for her musical talent as a pianist; a member of the Monday Musical Club and Dental Auxiliary in Portland. She remained in Portland after her retirement then moving to The Dalles in 1992. Survivors include her son, Jack J. Howe and his wife, Peggy, The Dalles; grandchildren, Gregory J. Howe and wife, Linda, Lake Oswego (Oregon); John Roger Howe and wife, E.J.; and Jeanine Dirksen and her husband, Bruce, all of The Dalles; eight great-grandchildren, two great-great grandchildren, her brother, Donald Holbrook, Sandy (Oregon) and many nieces, nephews and friends. Services will be held at Portland's Lincoln Memorial Mausoleum Chapel at 11 a.m. on Saturday, February 23, with Spencer, Libby & Powell Funeral Home in care of arrangements. The Dalles Chronicle February 21, 2002 Written permission to reprint obituary given by The Dalles Chronicle, The Dalles, Oregon. Copied and submitted by Earline Wasser.

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Dave, You have always been good at differing, no need to beg. None of the places you mentioned were ever served or governed by Wasco County. In the case of the Whitman Mission and Lapwai (Nez Perce) locations, none of these were ever in Wasco County, and none had permanent white habitation prior to the late 50's. There are numerous locations named Camas Prairie throughout the Northwest, the earliest permanently settled (in the early 40's) is near Fort Vancouver, and certainly had nothing to do with Wasco. In the case of the far southeast of present Idaho, the few early Mormon pioneers of that area certainly saw themselves as part of Utah in 1858-9, and would have done their business with Cache County, Utah Territory, which is in fact where they were enumerated in 1860. They would absolutely not have had any business with Wasco County in The Dalles all those hundreds of miles away, just as they never did business with the Washington Territory counties which took over there for Wasco on the maps. Yes, Umatilla was formed from Wasco in 1862, and took a number of people around Milton-Freewater away, but the first large scale division of Wasco population did not occur until 1882 with the formation of Crook County, which included present Jefferson and Deschutes as well as a chunk of Wheeler. Yes, over two decades later..... Kevin Fraley ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Samuelsen" <dsam@sampubco.com> To: <OREGON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [OREGON] Large counties downsizing > I beg to differ. There were settlements before 1859 - in Nez Perce, > Idaho already as early as 1843 in Camas Prairie. Then there's > the settlement at Franklin, Idaho. Not to mention the Whitman Mission > settlement that changed over to Walla Walla within short time. > > And "decades later" as you said so from Wasco, I beg to differ also > > Baker County 1862 > Grant County 1864 > Umatilla County 1862 > Lake County 1874 > > Records go back that early. > > David Samuelsen > > Kevin Fraley wrote: > > > > Hi, > > While its "official" boundaries for a couple years ending in 1859 > > did indeed include a large part of present Idaho, a small corner of > > present Wyoming, and a tiny sliver of present Montana, there was not > > at any time during this period any white population in any of those > > areas. In fact, the entire "county" prior to statehood in 1859 > > consisted of a handful of families making their livings from the small > > army post at Fort Dalles, all living within yards of the post or on > > it. There were so few white men that the county offices > > (commissioner, sheriff, auditor, accessor, etc.) had to be assigned, > > two or three offices per man. It is certainly not true that people > > searching for early Idaho pioneers can find records in Wasco County. > > Several Oregon counties were formed decades later from Wasco, and in > > these cases some old records may exist in Wasco. Washington Territory > > was formed in 1853 (before Wasco County), Idaho Territory was formed > > from Washington Territory in 1863. > > > > Kevin Fraley > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pete Wasser" <petew@netcnct.net> > > To: <OREGON-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 11:39 AM > > Subject: [OREGON] Large counties downsizing > > > > > Karen, > > > In the book I quoted from is this explanation: "1850, Clackamas, > > Marion > > > and Linn extended by statute to the Rocky Mountains, but the 1850 > > census > > > population lay west of the Cascade Mountains." > > > > > > I live in Wasco county. It covered four states including Idaho, > > Montana > > > and Wyoming. Wasco county was the largest county in the U.S. People > > > unaware of its history would not know to contact the governmental > > > offices here in Wasco county to search for records of their > > ancestors in > > > newer counties that were formed later. The records are not sent to > > the > > > newly formed counties, they remain with the original counties. > > > > > > In 1860 Idaho was considered a part of the "Washington Territory". > > It > > > became "Idaho Territory" around 1870. By 1870 Wasco county had been > > > downsized and the counties of Umatilla, Union, Grant and Baker were > > > formed in eastern Oregon.

I am researching Emma Brower Wright b. 1860 in IA. She and husband John E. Wright took the Oregon Trail to La Grande, Or. in 1881 with a baby Pearl Daphne Wright. Emma remarried there a John Quincy Mills. I would like to locate the children of Mr. Mills. Emma's mother Nancy Brower followed her to La Grande in 1882 with 13 Brower descendants. I would also like to locate those Browers in Oregon. Any information on MILLS/BROWER/WRIGHT would be appreciated. Lillian Kathleen Martin.

I beg to differ. There were settlements before 1859 - in Nez Perce, Idaho already as early as 1843 in Camas Prairie. Then there's the settlement at Franklin, Idaho. Not to mention the Whitman Mission settlement that changed over to Walla Walla within short time. And "decades later" as you said so from Wasco, I beg to differ also Baker County 1862 Grant County 1864 Umatilla County 1862 Lake County 1874 Records go back that early. David Samuelsen Kevin Fraley wrote: > > Hi, > While its "official" boundaries for a couple years ending in 1859 > did indeed include a large part of present Idaho, a small corner of > present Wyoming, and a tiny sliver of present Montana, there was not > at any time during this period any white population in any of those > areas. In fact, the entire "county" prior to statehood in 1859 > consisted of a handful of families making their livings from the small > army post at Fort Dalles, all living within yards of the post or on > it. There were so few white men that the county offices > (commissioner, sheriff, auditor, accessor, etc.) had to be assigned, > two or three offices per man. It is certainly not true that people > searching for early Idaho pioneers can find records in Wasco County. > Several Oregon counties were formed decades later from Wasco, and in > these cases some old records may exist in Wasco. Washington Territory > was formed in 1853 (before Wasco County), Idaho Territory was formed > from Washington Territory in 1863. > > Kevin Fraley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete Wasser" <petew@netcnct.net> > To: <OREGON-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 11:39 AM > Subject: [OREGON] Large counties downsizing > > > Karen, > > In the book I quoted from is this explanation: "1850, Clackamas, > Marion > > and Linn extended by statute to the Rocky Mountains, but the 1850 > census > > population lay west of the Cascade Mountains." > > > > I live in Wasco county. It covered four states including Idaho, > Montana > > and Wyoming. Wasco county was the largest county in the U.S. People > > unaware of its history would not know to contact the governmental > > offices here in Wasco county to search for records of their > ancestors in > > newer counties that were formed later. The records are not sent to > the > > newly formed counties, they remain with the original counties. > > > > In 1860 Idaho was considered a part of the "Washington Territory". > It > > became "Idaho Territory" around 1870. By 1870 Wasco county had been > > downsized and the counties of Umatilla, Union, Grant and Baker were > > formed in eastern Oregon. > > > > > > ==== OREGON Mailing List ==== > > Welcome to the OREGON LIST > > To Search the OREGON-L or leave the lists use this link to the > Oregon-L > > web site http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/usa/OR/misc.html > > Oregon Archives http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/ > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > ==== OREGON Mailing List ==== > Welcome to the OREGON LIST > To Search the OREGON-L or leave the lists use this link to the Oregon-L > web site http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/usa/OR/misc.html > Oregon Archives http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Hi, While its "official" boundaries for a couple years ending in 1859 did indeed include a large part of present Idaho, a small corner of present Wyoming, and a tiny sliver of present Montana, there was not at any time during this period any white population in any of those areas. In fact, the entire "county" prior to statehood in 1859 consisted of a handful of families making their livings from the small army post at Fort Dalles, all living within yards of the post or on it. There were so few white men that the county offices (commissioner, sheriff, auditor, accessor, etc.) had to be assigned, two or three offices per man. It is certainly not true that people searching for early Idaho pioneers can find records in Wasco County. Several Oregon counties were formed decades later from Wasco, and in these cases some old records may exist in Wasco. Washington Territory was formed in 1853 (before Wasco County), Idaho Territory was formed from Washington Territory in 1863. Kevin Fraley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Wasser" <petew@netcnct.net> To: <OREGON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 11:39 AM Subject: [OREGON] Large counties downsizing > Karen, > In the book I quoted from is this explanation: "1850, Clackamas, Marion > and Linn extended by statute to the Rocky Mountains, but the 1850 census > population lay west of the Cascade Mountains." > > I live in Wasco county. It covered four states including Idaho, Montana > and Wyoming. Wasco county was the largest county in the U.S. People > unaware of its history would not know to contact the governmental > offices here in Wasco county to search for records of their ancestors in > newer counties that were formed later. The records are not sent to the > newly formed counties, they remain with the original counties. > > In 1860 Idaho was considered a part of the "Washington Territory". It > became "Idaho Territory" around 1870. By 1870 Wasco county had been > downsized and the counties of Umatilla, Union, Grant and Baker were > formed in eastern Oregon. > > > ==== OREGON Mailing List ==== > Welcome to the OREGON LIST > To Search the OREGON-L or leave the lists use this link to the Oregon-L > web site http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/usa/OR/misc.html > Oregon Archives http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Karen, In the book I quoted from is this explanation: "1850, Clackamas, Marion and Linn extended by statute to the Rocky Mountains, but the 1850 census population lay west of the Cascade Mountains." I live in Wasco county. It covered four states including Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. Wasco county was the largest county in the U.S. People unaware of its history would not know to contact the governmental offices here in Wasco county to search for records of their ancestors in newer counties that were formed later. The records are not sent to the newly formed counties, they remain with the original counties. In 1860 Idaho was considered a part of the "Washington Territory". It became "Idaho Territory" around 1870. By 1870 Wasco county had been downsized and the counties of Umatilla, Union, Grant and Baker were formed in eastern Oregon.

Partial explanation without knowing dates of concerned parties In 1850, LANE COUNTY did not exist but was part of the much larger county of LINN. 1860 LANE COUNTY was in existance with its northern boundry bordering Linn county. MARION county was also in existance in 1850 and its southern boundry bordered Linn county. Reading from south to north the counties after 1860 were Lane, Linn and Marion. Source: Map Guide to the U.S. Federal Censuses 1790-1920, William Thorndale and William Dollarhide. In very early days, records were often kept in nearby counties before they got downsized to smaller land dimensions and newer counties were established. Hope I haven't confused you with too much detail. karen thomas wrote: > First I apologize for sending a message with nothing on it but > I was having trouble with anything going through. > My question was that I seem to remember some discussion as to > whether when a land grant was issued if the person had to live in > the county it was issued in. I always thought my mother was born > in Marion county but I found a land grant issued to her father in > Lane County. How early were birth records kept for Lane County? > > --- karen thomas > --- krthomas@mindspring.com > --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. > > ==== OREGON Mailing List ==== > Welcome to the OREGON LIST > To Search the OREGON-L or leave the lists use this link to the Oregon-L > web site http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/usa/OR/misc.html > Oregon Archives http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

First I apologize for sending a message with nothing on it but I was having trouble with anything going through. My question was that I seem to remember some discussion as to whether when a land grant was issued if the person had to live in the county it was issued in. I always thought my mother was born in Marion county but I found a land grant issued to her father in Lane County. How early were birth records kept for Lane County? --- karen thomas --- krthomas@mindspring.com --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.

Surnames: Kramer, Sittner, Johnson, Bodle David Kramer, 91, a resident of Troutdale (Oregon), died at a Gresham (Oregon) hospital on Thursday, February 14, 2002. He was born on September 26, 1910, in Chicago (Illinois), the fourth of seven children to Carl and Sophia (Sittner) Kramer. He grew up in Chicago and married Myrtle Lillian Johnson on March 3, 1934, in Chicago. He served in the U.S. Navy during WWII and after the service settled in The Dalles in 1943. He managed the Firestone Tire Store in The Dalles from 1945 through 1956, then transferring to Vancouver (Washington) for several years. He then became the territorial manager for the Firestone Company until his retirement in 1972. He was a member and Past Master of the Masonic Lodge and a member of the Gresham Al-Kadar Shriners. He enjoyed the outdoors, especially golfing, hunting and fishing, woodworking and furniture refinishing. He is survived by his wife, Myrtle "Jackie" Kramer, Troutdale; a son and his wife David "Kenny" and Carolyn Kramer, Gresham; two grandchildren, David and his wife Ramona Kramer, Gresham; and Pamela and her husband Terry Bodle, Beaver Creek (Oregon); five great-grandchildren, Kelly, Kyle, K.C., Carly and David; a brother, Carl Kramer, The Dalles. Funeral services will be held at 11 a.m. on Saturday, February 23, 2002, at I.O.O.F. Mausoleum in The Dalles with Smith Callaway Chapel in care of services. Memorials may be made to Shriners Hospital for Children, 3101 SW Sam Jackson Park Road, Portland, Oregon 97201 or Bob Wagenblast, P.O. Box 885, The Dalles, Oregon 97058. The Dalles Chronicle February 20, 2002 Written permission to reprint obituary given by The Dalles Chronicle, The Dalles, Oregon. Copied and submitted by Earline Wasser