You are absolutely correct. Alexander Isbister was a subject of a book about it. Thanks for having the courage to use the word! In Canada, first nations people put up with it every day. Seems not much has changes in four hundred years or so. On Saturday, August 7, 2004, at 05:24 PM, M. E. McCarty wrote: > Wee touch of racism creeping in here me thinks > Moi McCarty > In message <C3FCEA56-E8B7-11D8-AC13-0003939E1D4C@sympatico.ca>, > stephen davie <stephen.davie@sympatico.ca> writes >> HBC in fact did hire underachievers, right off the bat. They were at >> first Englishmen, vacumed up off the streets of London. They >> consistently performed very poorly, were cowardly, and totally >> unsuited for a tough long-term challenge. They were not adaptable, >> and had few manly skills suited to the real outdoors. And >> unsurprising to those of us who are descendant Canorkies (my term) >> who came to Canada with that monopolistic corporate English symbol of >> imperialism, the english were unsuited to the rigors of any typical >> challenge in the constantly- changing natural world. Our viking >> forefathers on the other hand, passed along the lifeskills needed to >> thrive and survive. These included sea skills, and great "camping' >> wisdom for a variety of extreme weather-related circumstances >> >> The HBC journals I have read, occasionally are critical of the >> Orcadian HBC men. But the criticism was usually written by an >> englishman, who was incapable of communicating effectively with our >> first nations peoples, whom adored the Orcadians and loathed the >> English. History recorded shows that fearless and courageous men >> alone, blazed the trails for latter-day immigrants from Britian, and >> the first choice for getting the job done was the Orkneymen from >> Firth and Stennes, according to all credible historical records in >> this country. (by the way, the English finally coughed up their HBC >> records which now have their rightful home in Winnipeg, Manitoba.) >> >> In my family, it was evident that if you lived in Firth, as we did in >> Grimbister near Davie Brig, and you wern't the eldest son of a >> landowner, your chances of owning ground regardless of how hard you >> worked were somewhere between nil and nothing, unless you could win >> the heart of an only daughter with sick parents. In our family, on >> one occasion, two young men went to Stennes where an HBC boat was set >> to sail for the west. One of the young men said, "Go home and tell Ma >> that I have gone west with the HBC but I'll be back in five years." >> That type of adventurous spirit, passed down from Viking roots, in my >> mind is far from the general description of an underachiever. When I >> meet resident Orcadians on this site and elsewhere, there is an >> undertow of curiosity and even a little envy of those families who >> came out here, and slugged it out, swallowing mosquitoes by the pound >> when they dared breath, losing their digits to frostbite, and >> confronting wild beasts in the Bay area, with the worst of weapons >> handed out buy the company, which often blew up in the face of the >> shooter confronted with a bear, or whilst gathering meat. >> >> On August 24, 1782, our own Andrew Davie was captured with other >> Orkneymen at fort Prince of Wales on Hudson's Bay. The circumstances >> were rather odd, and the company were critical of the Orkneymen. Few >> of them were ever trained to fire cannons which were placed on the >> walls. I suppose as the French arrived, the lead-butted, >> chair-smothering englishmen who commanded the Company from London >> would have liked it better if all the Orcadian men fought their >> hearts out , and died with their Orkney blood spilling onto the >> fallen union jack. But they were survivors. Their conclusion was sort >> of "Hey, we are here doing our thing for the company, where few >> others could. We want to go home in five years or ten, with our hard >> earned money, to our families. Dying at the hands of some beplumed >> frenchman who dropped in unannunced is not part of the deal. So why >> not see if the man has a bottle or two of brandy aboard, make peace, >> have a nice caribou and grouse feast with bluberry pie and >> thereafter, find our way to the company and explain that ill equiped >> as we were to defend it, we chose to live." This beautiful piece of >> history underlines the practical thinking of Orcadians. Also, whereas >> the English viewed natives here as a sub species, sort of half human >> and half bear, the Orcadians learned skills from them, and took >> native women for wives, in contrast to the stiff and haughty Brits. >> One of our distant relatives, Joseph Isbister, took a native wife >> (called country wives) and their son Alexander took a law degree in >> Scotland and thereafter championed the cause of Metis in the employ >> of the company. >> I was at a native Pow Wow on Manitoulin Island last weekend, and >> while watching the dances, I imagined our forefathers sitting through >> a similar gathering, eyeing some brown-eyed maiden, and contriving a >> plan to take her off, without having his throat cut in the process. >> Our property on Georgian Bay at Janet head, looks north into the cool >> waters of the North Shore, and I sat with my daughter-in-law, >> discussing how four hundred years ago, voyageurs could have very >> cnceivably camped on our expanse of pebble beach, still very much as >> natural and untouched as it was then. >> >> Sorry Sig, but this Thorfin/Kolbein/Grimbister/Borwick/Davie doesn't >> like to read the hint that the men who opened the doors in this harsh >> country were somehow underachievers. Anyone who thinks so should hop >> aboard a wooden boat, sans engine, and travel from Stennes through >> the Hudson Straits to Churchill, just for starters. Then try standing >> in front of a hungry and riled polar bear with a poor scattergun, and >> keep enough composure to make the one shot from this 20 guage >> disaster count. Nope, the fact that times were tough on Orkney >> doesn't make the people underachievers. The records here, thousands >> of pages of exciting factual stories of adventure, paint the truth. >> Any North American interested in Orkney and their roots, might well >> wish to visit Winnipeg and Fort York, and unearth the contributions >> achieved by truly remarkable, unshakeable and tenacious young men >> with a lust for adventure. >> Yours Aye: >> Stephen Davie (Canorky with a little native blood too!) >> On Saturday, August 7, 2004, at 07:40 AM, Bill Irvine wrote: >> >>> "Jo Ben harps on about the laziness of the Orcadians a few times" >>> this does not explain why fully 60 percent of indentured Hudson's >>> Bay servants in Canada by the eighteenth century were Orcadians. >>> bill >>> p.s. unless it was the Bay's intent to hire only underachievers. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Sigurd Towrie <sigurd@orkneyjar.com> >>> Date: Saturday, August 7, 2004 1:34 am >>> Subject: RE: [<orcadia>] Jo Ben's Descriptio Insularum Orchadiarum >>> >>>> On 07 August 2004 05:22, Clint McInnes wrote: >>>> >>>>> This is brilliant and a real insight. Can you tell me please what >>>>> 'slothful drones' are...???? " uneducated people of the land who >>>>> are >>>>> of bad habits, maybe >>>>> dirty and >>>>> of general moral decay " ... I assume...????? >>>> >>>> Indeed. Jo Ben harps on about the laziness of the Orcadians a few >>>> times. >>>>> and what then does >>>>> 'Sheipies' translate to please....???? >>>> >>>> I'm still looking into this one. On first glance it would appear >>>> to relate >>>> to "sheep" - however I suspect there's more to it and that it's a >>>> Norn term >>>> the author didn't understand so simply wrote what it sounded like. >>>> >>>> -- Sigurd Towrie >>>> Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney >>>> Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com >>>> Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com >>>> Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk >>>> >>>> >>>> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >>>> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with >>>> the word >>>> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >>> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with >>> the word >>> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >>> >> >> >> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the >> word >> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >> > > -- > M.E.McCarty > 13 North Main Street Tel: +44(0)1988 402062 > Wigtown > Scotland > DG8 9HL > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >