All, Ah, history. And just what is that? The famous quote says history is written by the winners, and there is truth to that, but how much truth is there to history? OK, so much of history as we know it is skewed and, often, little more than propaganda, yet where would we be without it? When one thinks back on, say, the history of England, one thinks almost immediately of the list of kings marching along, and everything else seems to slot into that. So the Tudor period, the Restoration, the Victorian age and so on all take their place on the grid of royal succession. The same is pretty well true everywhere else, with the French kings, the Chinese, the Inca and so on. And of course that's only a small part of the story, but no one writes down how Mrs. Doobiddle did the laundry on the Monday in 1465. However, the very notion of history is undergoing deep changes. Today historians refer to many kinds of history. Kings and Battles refers to what was generally taught us when we were in school. But there is Social History, Gender History, Economic History, Art History, Histories of Science, Technology, Medicine, and on and on. More and more historians are looking at things other than kings and battles and actually concerning themselves a bit with Mrs. Doobiddle and her laundry. Indeed I would wager someone, somewhere, is studying the history of laundry. Why did only women do the washing? What were the technologies of laundry at various times? Why in hell did Victorian women, walking streets covered with horse droppings, and having no modern washing machines, insist on dragging those long dresses through the muck? Why did Rosa Bonheur, the mid 19th century French sculptor, need permission from the police to wear trousers as she hung out in the corrals? My daughter is an historian, and her subject is the student revolts against the military crackdown in Brazil in the 1960s and 70s. Such things (student reactions to events) have, until the last few decades, been largely overlooked by historians. Perhaps further research will tell us a whole lot more about those curious creatures we call vikings, and exactly what they did, and did not, do. As for that pesky term Viking, it does seem, from this discussion, that the word has early origins, rather different from those used to day, but that it underwent a refurbishing in the 18th and 19th centuries, just as the whole notion of Christmas did, especially in the England of the 19th century, Dickens and all that. So perhaps, for purposes of discussion here, we can agree that viking is a noun describing a certain kind of activity carried out by a small percentage of the population of certain northern countries during a relatively narrow period of history. But those helmets with horns on sure are cool looking! Tuck On Jul 25, 2009, at 7:58 AM, Royce Perry wrote: > Shame on you Stephen....attribute your sources...and if it was > published > later than the mid 1200s it wouldn't support your position anyway. > > A point to conceder, almost everything we think we know about > history is > based on a very tiny part of the population. (This is true for > nearly all > history of any people anywhere and any when) The only things that > survive > are the activities of the nobles, leaders, poets, warriors, priests, > bishops, shamans. People of prominence. We know almost nothing about > the 99% > that just got through life as best they could. The Sagas are > particularly > tricky because they are actually long epic praise poems about the > doings of > the warrior elite. And they were composed by the PR department...the > skalds. > They have a lot of factual history in them, but it's hard to tease > out from > the flack. Think in terms of a rock star's biography written by his > press > agent. Also they were originally oral, and only written down much > later...by > Christian monks. So how much did they "correct" the original > material? We > have the same problem with a lot of the very early Irish and Welch > material. > My issue with using the term "Viking" is that it has been > Hollywooded into a > stereotype for the whole Scandinavian culture of the time, when in > fact was > probably typical of only 1-2% of the population. Sort of like saying > that > the only people that lived in Medieval times were knights, nobles, > kings, > and clergy. > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com > ] On > Behalf Of stephen davie > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:32 PM > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes > > Beg to differ.... > > viking...noun...any of the Scandinavian seafaring pirates or traders > who raided in many of the parts of north western Europe in the 8-11 > centuries. > > viking...the adjective...of or relating to vikings or the period in > which they lived > > OK, I agree that it is a bad handle, especially perhaps for the more > sensitive of us who indeed are descended from Norse forbears who > happened in many Orcadian cases, to be indeed Vikings. I had a touch > of the woozies in reading the details of some of the sagas and other > historic works, but I never got to chose myh parents, and I guess I > am who I am, descended on the side of my father from Kolbein Hruga > and the Thorfins, many of whom fell into that big V category. Combine > those Viking roots with the north american native content, and it is > indeed perplexing if not overwhelming. > > One thing we learned here in Canada with the battle on the Plains of > Abraham, where Montcalm fell to Wolf, in as much as some people try, > ya can't change history. > > Cheers.....Stephen > > > On Jul 24, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Royce Perry wrote: > >> >> GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it >> was a verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! >> >> R the Picky >> >>> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >>> From: stephen.davie@sympatico.ca >>> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:53:06 -0400 >>> Subject: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >>> >>> I was reading today on the www, that a father and son team , in July >>> of 2007, unearthed a viking horde in England which was claimed to be >>> worth a million pounds by some erudite evaluator. My propensity for >>> speculation and romance kicks in again, as I recall the fascinating >>> books of viking lore of the Orkneys, and I can't help but think that >>> some day, some eager body in Orkney is going to unearth, perhaps by >>> accident, an accumulation of sivler coins and jewelry, carefully >>> concealed in the arms and safe keep of mother earth, by the viking >>> who left by the sea on yet another summer raid perhaps, which fellow >>> due to some dramatic and fatal event, never was to return to Orkney >>> to unearth and retreave his stash of previously plundered and horded >>> possessions. >>> >>> Surely I am not the sole keeper of this plausible dream. Indeed, on >>> behalf of all the vikings who lived on Orkney...."Where is the >>> "stuff" our forbears lusted after for all those centuries, when we >>> raided the shores of Scotland, England and Ireland? >>> >>> Two years ago I acquired an underwater metal detector which is >>> discriminatory by type of metal. It has not been out of the case, >>> but >>> this summer we are going to take it to our near north, to examine an >>> old wreck which a very senior citizen visited in the 1930's, and >>> from >>> which he just received a cannon ball. The conjecture is that the >>> boat >>> would not have carried cannon balls, without a cannon. We assume the >>> cannon will be brass, as the portage factor made slugging iron >>> cannons across portages practically impossible. >>> >>> I maintain that Vikings would not embark on viking expeditions, >>> without returning with the components of typical hordes. Based on >>> the >>> population, and the numerous excursions outlined in the sagas alone, >>> there is logic to the view, which will be solidified the day someone >>> trips over such a discovery. Obviously it is likely that many buried >>> treasures there are in the "abeyence" file as to the required >>> reporting to the government. >>> >>> Which begs the question....how many in Orkney have metal >>> detectors? I >>> suppose in light of the covetous albeit appropriate claims by >>> historical authorities in Scotland to any artifiacts exhumed, that >>> people are disinclined to bother, to some extent. When Mel Fisher >>> discovered the Atocha, the sabres rattled over rights and ownership >>> issues, for many years in many courts. When my friend Tracy Bowden >>> exhumed th esilver banks wreck, concepcion (1642) he entertained >>> armed security from the Dominican Republic on his boat for a decade, >>> ensuring that their 50% made it to the museum in Porta Plata. >>> >>> In particular, it seems that Vikings were bead lovers, and one would >>> think that in burial areas and amaongst old ruins, the beads which >>> are durable, would surface on a somewhat regular basis. You might >>> google viking beads, or Dr. Dan Carlsson, who is the acknowledged >>> expert on the subject. I wrote to him once, and he is a very >>> interesting and obviouosly expert historian. IN researching for the >>> book project, I discovered that authors in Scotland interested in >>> Orkney, would travel to Norway to fill in the blanks where Scottish >>> notes were thin in some centuries. >>> >>> The absence of viking possessions in Orkney is redolent of an >>> ongoing >>> mystery, considering that their culture flourished for centuries in >>> Orkney, and the object of their lusty voyages, was in large part, >>> material valuables which would have returned to Orkney and been >>> deposited in their private earthy banks. >>> >>> Looking forward to my trip over to Orkney and Norway in September. >>> >>> Cheers all....stephen >>> _______________________________________ >>> Orcadia Group Photo Album >>> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- >>> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> _______________________________________ >> Orcadia Group Photo Album >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message