I was reading today on the www, that a father and son team , in July of 2007, unearthed a viking horde in England which was claimed to be worth a million pounds by some erudite evaluator. My propensity for speculation and romance kicks in again, as I recall the fascinating books of viking lore of the Orkneys, and I can't help but think that some day, some eager body in Orkney is going to unearth, perhaps by accident, an accumulation of sivler coins and jewelry, carefully concealed in the arms and safe keep of mother earth, by the viking who left by the sea on yet another summer raid perhaps, which fellow due to some dramatic and fatal event, never was to return to Orkney to unearth and retreave his stash of previously plundered and horded possessions. Surely I am not the sole keeper of this plausible dream. Indeed, on behalf of all the vikings who lived on Orkney...."Where is the "stuff" our forbears lusted after for all those centuries, when we raided the shores of Scotland, England and Ireland? Two years ago I acquired an underwater metal detector which is discriminatory by type of metal. It has not been out of the case, but this summer we are going to take it to our near north, to examine an old wreck which a very senior citizen visited in the 1930's, and from which he just received a cannon ball. The conjecture is that the boat would not have carried cannon balls, without a cannon. We assume the cannon will be brass, as the portage factor made slugging iron cannons across portages practically impossible. I maintain that Vikings would not embark on viking expeditions, without returning with the components of typical hordes. Based on the population, and the numerous excursions outlined in the sagas alone, there is logic to the view, which will be solidified the day someone trips over such a discovery. Obviously it is likely that many buried treasures there are in the "abeyence" file as to the required reporting to the government. Which begs the question....how many in Orkney have metal detectors? I suppose in light of the covetous albeit appropriate claims by historical authorities in Scotland to any artifiacts exhumed, that people are disinclined to bother, to some extent. When Mel Fisher discovered the Atocha, the sabres rattled over rights and ownership issues, for many years in many courts. When my friend Tracy Bowden exhumed th esilver banks wreck, concepcion (1642) he entertained armed security from the Dominican Republic on his boat for a decade, ensuring that their 50% made it to the museum in Porta Plata. In particular, it seems that Vikings were bead lovers, and one would think that in burial areas and amaongst old ruins, the beads which are durable, would surface on a somewhat regular basis. You might google viking beads, or Dr. Dan Carlsson, who is the acknowledged expert on the subject. I wrote to him once, and he is a very interesting and obviouosly expert historian. IN researching for the book project, I discovered that authors in Scotland interested in Orkney, would travel to Norway to fill in the blanks where Scottish notes were thin in some centuries. The absence of viking possessions in Orkney is redolent of an ongoing mystery, considering that their culture flourished for centuries in Orkney, and the object of their lusty voyages, was in large part, material valuables which would have returned to Orkney and been deposited in their private earthy banks. Looking forward to my trip over to Orkney and Norway in September. Cheers all....stephen

GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it was a verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! R the Picky > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > From: stephen.davie@sympatico.ca > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:53:06 -0400 > Subject: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes > > I was reading today on the www, that a father and son team , in July > of 2007, unearthed a viking horde in England which was claimed to be > worth a million pounds by some erudite evaluator. My propensity for > speculation and romance kicks in again, as I recall the fascinating > books of viking lore of the Orkneys, and I can't help but think that > some day, some eager body in Orkney is going to unearth, perhaps by > accident, an accumulation of sivler coins and jewelry, carefully > concealed in the arms and safe keep of mother earth, by the viking > who left by the sea on yet another summer raid perhaps, which fellow > due to some dramatic and fatal event, never was to return to Orkney > to unearth and retreave his stash of previously plundered and horded > possessions. > > Surely I am not the sole keeper of this plausible dream. Indeed, on > behalf of all the vikings who lived on Orkney...."Where is the > "stuff" our forbears lusted after for all those centuries, when we > raided the shores of Scotland, England and Ireland? > > Two years ago I acquired an underwater metal detector which is > discriminatory by type of metal. It has not been out of the case, but > this summer we are going to take it to our near north, to examine an > old wreck which a very senior citizen visited in the 1930's, and from > which he just received a cannon ball. The conjecture is that the boat > would not have carried cannon balls, without a cannon. We assume the > cannon will be brass, as the portage factor made slugging iron > cannons across portages practically impossible. > > I maintain that Vikings would not embark on viking expeditions, > without returning with the components of typical hordes. Based on the > population, and the numerous excursions outlined in the sagas alone, > there is logic to the view, which will be solidified the day someone > trips over such a discovery. Obviously it is likely that many buried > treasures there are in the "abeyence" file as to the required > reporting to the government. > > Which begs the question....how many in Orkney have metal detectors? I > suppose in light of the covetous albeit appropriate claims by > historical authorities in Scotland to any artifiacts exhumed, that > people are disinclined to bother, to some extent. When Mel Fisher > discovered the Atocha, the sabres rattled over rights and ownership > issues, for many years in many courts. When my friend Tracy Bowden > exhumed th esilver banks wreck, concepcion (1642) he entertained > armed security from the Dominican Republic on his boat for a decade, > ensuring that their 50% made it to the museum in Porta Plata. > > In particular, it seems that Vikings were bead lovers, and one would > think that in burial areas and amaongst old ruins, the beads which > are durable, would surface on a somewhat regular basis. You might > google viking beads, or Dr. Dan Carlsson, who is the acknowledged > expert on the subject. I wrote to him once, and he is a very > interesting and obviouosly expert historian. IN researching for the > book project, I discovered that authors in Scotland interested in > Orkney, would travel to Norway to fill in the blanks where Scottish > notes were thin in some centuries. > > The absence of viking possessions in Orkney is redolent of an ongoing > mystery, considering that their culture flourished for centuries in > Orkney, and the object of their lusty voyages, was in large part, > material valuables which would have returned to Orkney and been > deposited in their private earthy banks. > > Looking forward to my trip over to Orkney and Norway in September. > > Cheers all....stephen > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

good luck! Marion > > GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it was a > verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! > > R the Picky >

Royce Perry wrote: > GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it was a verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! > > R the Picky Sorry, Royce, but I'd have to describe you as "R the Unrealistic", since Viking has been widely used as a noun (and an adjective too, for that matter) for a long time. I'll concede, though, that I don't know when the word was first used as a noun. Norman T.

Beg to differ.... viking...noun...any of the Scandinavian seafaring pirates or traders who raided in many of the parts of north western Europe in the 8-11 centuries. viking...the adjective...of or relating to vikings or the period in which they lived OK, I agree that it is a bad handle, especially perhaps for the more sensitive of us who indeed are descended from Norse forbears who happened in many Orcadian cases, to be indeed Vikings. I had a touch of the woozies in reading the details of some of the sagas and other historic works, but I never got to chose myh parents, and I guess I am who I am, descended on the side of my father from Kolbein Hruga and the Thorfins, many of whom fell into that big V category. Combine those Viking roots with the north american native content, and it is indeed perplexing if not overwhelming. One thing we learned here in Canada with the battle on the Plains of Abraham, where Montcalm fell to Wolf, in as much as some people try, ya can't change history. Cheers.....Stephen On Jul 24, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Royce Perry wrote: > > GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it > was a verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! > > R the Picky > >> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >> From: stephen.davie@sympatico.ca >> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:53:06 -0400 >> Subject: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >> >> I was reading today on the www, that a father and son team , in July >> of 2007, unearthed a viking horde in England which was claimed to be >> worth a million pounds by some erudite evaluator. My propensity for >> speculation and romance kicks in again, as I recall the fascinating >> books of viking lore of the Orkneys, and I can't help but think that >> some day, some eager body in Orkney is going to unearth, perhaps by >> accident, an accumulation of sivler coins and jewelry, carefully >> concealed in the arms and safe keep of mother earth, by the viking >> who left by the sea on yet another summer raid perhaps, which fellow >> due to some dramatic and fatal event, never was to return to Orkney >> to unearth and retreave his stash of previously plundered and horded >> possessions. >> >> Surely I am not the sole keeper of this plausible dream. Indeed, on >> behalf of all the vikings who lived on Orkney...."Where is the >> "stuff" our forbears lusted after for all those centuries, when we >> raided the shores of Scotland, England and Ireland? >> >> Two years ago I acquired an underwater metal detector which is >> discriminatory by type of metal. It has not been out of the case, but >> this summer we are going to take it to our near north, to examine an >> old wreck which a very senior citizen visited in the 1930's, and from >> which he just received a cannon ball. The conjecture is that the boat >> would not have carried cannon balls, without a cannon. We assume the >> cannon will be brass, as the portage factor made slugging iron >> cannons across portages practically impossible. >> >> I maintain that Vikings would not embark on viking expeditions, >> without returning with the components of typical hordes. Based on the >> population, and the numerous excursions outlined in the sagas alone, >> there is logic to the view, which will be solidified the day someone >> trips over such a discovery. Obviously it is likely that many buried >> treasures there are in the "abeyence" file as to the required >> reporting to the government. >> >> Which begs the question....how many in Orkney have metal detectors? I >> suppose in light of the covetous albeit appropriate claims by >> historical authorities in Scotland to any artifiacts exhumed, that >> people are disinclined to bother, to some extent. When Mel Fisher >> discovered the Atocha, the sabres rattled over rights and ownership >> issues, for many years in many courts. When my friend Tracy Bowden >> exhumed th esilver banks wreck, concepcion (1642) he entertained >> armed security from the Dominican Republic on his boat for a decade, >> ensuring that their 50% made it to the museum in Porta Plata. >> >> In particular, it seems that Vikings were bead lovers, and one would >> think that in burial areas and amaongst old ruins, the beads which >> are durable, would surface on a somewhat regular basis. You might >> google viking beads, or Dr. Dan Carlsson, who is the acknowledged >> expert on the subject. I wrote to him once, and he is a very >> interesting and obviouosly expert historian. IN researching for the >> book project, I discovered that authors in Scotland interested in >> Orkney, would travel to Norway to fill in the blanks where Scottish >> notes were thin in some centuries. >> >> The absence of viking possessions in Orkney is redolent of an ongoing >> mystery, considering that their culture flourished for centuries in >> Orkney, and the object of their lusty voyages, was in large part, >> material valuables which would have returned to Orkney and been >> deposited in their private earthy banks. >> >> Looking forward to my trip over to Orkney and Norway in September. >> >> Cheers all....stephen >> _______________________________________ >> Orcadia Group Photo Album >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Shame on you Stephen....attribute your sources...and if it was published later than the mid 1200s it wouldn't support your position anyway. A point to conceder, almost everything we think we know about history is based on a very tiny part of the population. (This is true for nearly all history of any people anywhere and any when) The only things that survive are the activities of the nobles, leaders, poets, warriors, priests, bishops, shamans. People of prominence. We know almost nothing about the 99% that just got through life as best they could. The Sagas are particularly tricky because they are actually long epic praise poems about the doings of the warrior elite. And they were composed by the PR department...the skalds. They have a lot of factual history in them, but it's hard to tease out from the flack. Think in terms of a rock star's biography written by his press agent. Also they were originally oral, and only written down much later...by Christian monks. So how much did they "correct" the original material? We have the same problem with a lot of the very early Irish and Welch material. My issue with using the term "Viking" is that it has been Hollywooded into a stereotype for the whole Scandinavian culture of the time, when in fact was probably typical of only 1-2% of the population. Sort of like saying that the only people that lived in Medieval times were knights, nobles, kings, and clergy. R -----Original Message----- From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of stephen davie Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:32 PM To: orcadia@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes Beg to differ.... viking...noun...any of the Scandinavian seafaring pirates or traders who raided in many of the parts of north western Europe in the 8-11 centuries. viking...the adjective...of or relating to vikings or the period in which they lived OK, I agree that it is a bad handle, especially perhaps for the more sensitive of us who indeed are descended from Norse forbears who happened in many Orcadian cases, to be indeed Vikings. I had a touch of the woozies in reading the details of some of the sagas and other historic works, but I never got to chose myh parents, and I guess I am who I am, descended on the side of my father from Kolbein Hruga and the Thorfins, many of whom fell into that big V category. Combine those Viking roots with the north american native content, and it is indeed perplexing if not overwhelming. One thing we learned here in Canada with the battle on the Plains of Abraham, where Montcalm fell to Wolf, in as much as some people try, ya can't change history. Cheers.....Stephen On Jul 24, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Royce Perry wrote: > > GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it > was a verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! > > R the Picky > >> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >> From: stephen.davie@sympatico.ca >> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:53:06 -0400 >> Subject: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >> >> I was reading today on the www, that a father and son team , in July >> of 2007, unearthed a viking horde in England which was claimed to be >> worth a million pounds by some erudite evaluator. My propensity for >> speculation and romance kicks in again, as I recall the fascinating >> books of viking lore of the Orkneys, and I can't help but think that >> some day, some eager body in Orkney is going to unearth, perhaps by >> accident, an accumulation of sivler coins and jewelry, carefully >> concealed in the arms and safe keep of mother earth, by the viking >> who left by the sea on yet another summer raid perhaps, which fellow >> due to some dramatic and fatal event, never was to return to Orkney >> to unearth and retreave his stash of previously plundered and horded >> possessions. >> >> Surely I am not the sole keeper of this plausible dream. Indeed, on >> behalf of all the vikings who lived on Orkney...."Where is the >> "stuff" our forbears lusted after for all those centuries, when we >> raided the shores of Scotland, England and Ireland? >> >> Two years ago I acquired an underwater metal detector which is >> discriminatory by type of metal. It has not been out of the case, but >> this summer we are going to take it to our near north, to examine an >> old wreck which a very senior citizen visited in the 1930's, and from >> which he just received a cannon ball. The conjecture is that the boat >> would not have carried cannon balls, without a cannon. We assume the >> cannon will be brass, as the portage factor made slugging iron >> cannons across portages practically impossible. >> >> I maintain that Vikings would not embark on viking expeditions, >> without returning with the components of typical hordes. Based on the >> population, and the numerous excursions outlined in the sagas alone, >> there is logic to the view, which will be solidified the day someone >> trips over such a discovery. Obviously it is likely that many buried >> treasures there are in the "abeyence" file as to the required >> reporting to the government. >> >> Which begs the question....how many in Orkney have metal detectors? I >> suppose in light of the covetous albeit appropriate claims by >> historical authorities in Scotland to any artifiacts exhumed, that >> people are disinclined to bother, to some extent. When Mel Fisher >> discovered the Atocha, the sabres rattled over rights and ownership >> issues, for many years in many courts. When my friend Tracy Bowden >> exhumed th esilver banks wreck, concepcion (1642) he entertained >> armed security from the Dominican Republic on his boat for a decade, >> ensuring that their 50% made it to the museum in Porta Plata. >> >> In particular, it seems that Vikings were bead lovers, and one would >> think that in burial areas and amaongst old ruins, the beads which >> are durable, would surface on a somewhat regular basis. You might >> google viking beads, or Dr. Dan Carlsson, who is the acknowledged >> expert on the subject. I wrote to him once, and he is a very >> interesting and obviouosly expert historian. IN researching for the >> book project, I discovered that authors in Scotland interested in >> Orkney, would travel to Norway to fill in the blanks where Scottish >> notes were thin in some centuries. >> >> The absence of viking possessions in Orkney is redolent of an ongoing >> mystery, considering that their culture flourished for centuries in >> Orkney, and the object of their lusty voyages, was in large part, >> material valuables which would have returned to Orkney and been >> deposited in their private earthy banks. >> >> Looking forward to my trip over to Orkney and Norway in September. >> >> Cheers all....stephen >> _______________________________________ >> Orcadia Group Photo Album >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > _______________________________________ Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Topping my pet peeve would be those who attempt to debate in written medium yet cannot spell consider or Welsh. Perhaps those of a same mind would be willing to start a yahoo group for those who are more interested in debating then presenting information or sources. Oh yeah, another peeve, is those who don't change the subject line AND delete information that isn't pertinent. I prefer to have some empathy for those who receive via digest mode. One of the lessons learned while exploring the interweb was "Do not feed the trolls" or the topic of main interest will get de-railed indefinitely while endlessly discussing "their" pet peeve.

Steven, Very interesting about Viking artifacts. You are almost certainly right that loot was buried and never retrieved. The question is how much, where, and what kind of loot. It does make the purchase of a metal detector a good investment, I would think. That would be a good step towards answering an even more important question, how to find it. But just a thought about canons. Your inference that a canon ball implies canon is pretty unassailable. However, your suggestion that the canon might be brass (or bronze - close cousins) rather than iron for transporting purposes is flawed. First of all, brass weighs 534 pounds per cubit foot, while iron (surprisingly) weighs only 450 pounds per cubit foot, thus is actually lighter. Further, iron, being stronger, can be cast thinner for equal strength, making iron canons most likely a good deal lighter than brass or bronze ones. Unfortunately, iron corrodes rather badly , especially in sea water, and though it does throw up a hard coating, there is likely to be less of an iron canon lying on the bottom than a brass one. Anyway, good luck with the metal detector. After digging up dozens of bottle caps, and then getting all excited when it goes berserk, only to find some aluminium foil, you will certainly begin to discern significant readings from trivial ones, and who knows, you might just find the big one. Keep us posted. Tuck On Jul 24, 2009, at 10:53 AM, stephen davie wrote: > I was reading today on the www, that a father and son team , in July > of 2007, unearthed a viking horde in England which was claimed to be > worth a million pounds by some erudite evaluator. My propensity for > speculation and romance kicks in again, as I recall the fascinating > books of viking lore of the Orkneys, and I can't help but think that > some day, some eager body in Orkney is going to unearth, perhaps by > accident, an accumulation of sivler coins and jewelry, carefully > concealed in the arms and safe keep of mother earth, by the viking > who left by the sea on yet another summer raid perhaps, which fellow > due to some dramatic and fatal event, never was to return to Orkney > to unearth and retreave his stash of previously plundered and horded > possessions. > > Surely I am not the sole keeper of this plausible dream. Indeed, on > behalf of all the vikings who lived on Orkney...."Where is the > "stuff" our forbears lusted after for all those centuries, when we > raided the shores of Scotland, England and Ireland? > > Two years ago I acquired an underwater metal detector which is > discriminatory by type of metal. It has not been out of the case, but > this summer we are going to take it to our near north, to examine an > old wreck which a very senior citizen visited in the 1930's, and from > which he just received a cannon ball. The conjecture is that the boat > would not have carried cannon balls, without a cannon. We assume the > cannon will be brass, as the portage factor made slugging iron > cannons across portages practically impossible. > > I maintain that Vikings would not embark on viking expeditions, > without returning with the components of typical hordes. Based on the > population, and the numerous excursions outlined in the sagas alone, > there is logic to the view, which will be solidified the day someone > trips over such a discovery. Obviously it is likely that many buried > treasures there are in the "abeyence" file as to the required > reporting to the government. > > Which begs the question....how many in Orkney have metal detectors? I > suppose in light of the covetous albeit appropriate claims by > historical authorities in Scotland to any artifiacts exhumed, that > people are disinclined to bother, to some extent. When Mel Fisher > discovered the Atocha, the sabres rattled over rights and ownership > issues, for many years in many courts. When my friend Tracy Bowden > exhumed th esilver banks wreck, concepcion (1642) he entertained > armed security from the Dominican Republic on his boat for a decade, > ensuring that their 50% made it to the museum in Porta Plata. > > In particular, it seems that Vikings were bead lovers, and one would > think that in burial areas and amaongst old ruins, the beads which > are durable, would surface on a somewhat regular basis. You might > google viking beads, or Dr. Dan Carlsson, who is the acknowledged > expert on the subject. I wrote to him once, and he is a very > interesting and obviouosly expert historian. IN researching for the > book project, I discovered that authors in Scotland interested in > Orkney, would travel to Norway to fill in the blanks where Scottish > notes were thin in some centuries. > > The absence of viking possessions in Orkney is redolent of an ongoing > mystery, considering that their culture flourished for centuries in > Orkney, and the object of their lusty voyages, was in large part, > material valuables which would have returned to Orkney and been > deposited in their private earthy banks. > > Looking forward to my trip over to Orkney and Norway in September. > > Cheers all....stephen > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

From Sigurd Towrie's "Orkneyjar": http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/vikingorkney/hoards.htm There have been many Viking artefacts found in Orkney, but I don't know of any recent finds of gold, silver, etc. The Skaill hoard: http://www.hunterian.gla.ac.uk/archive/vikings/hoard.html The Scar Boat Burial: http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/scarboat/ The best-known treasure hoard from the Northern Isles must be that found at St Ninian's Isle in Shetland. It was discovered in 1958, and was thought to have been hurriedly concealed in around 800 AD to keep it from Viking invaders (so of course it isn't Viking treasure). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Ninian%27s_Isle Maybe the Vikings were sufficiently secure in Orkney that they didn't need to bury their possessions in the ground to keep them from invaders? Norman T.

September will be a good month for you to go to Orkney Stephen. I have had to postpone my trip for awhile - cancer came back so I am undergoing chemo. So far, so good - no ill effects so far. Marion > > Looking forward to my trip over to Orkney and Norway in September. > > Cheers all....stephen