Probably later translations. It isn't an Old Norse word, and from what I have read in a couple of places the more accurate translation of the Old Norse word used would be closer to pirate. R -----Original Message----- From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tuck Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:23 PM To: orcadia@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes All, In the Orkneyinga Saga those Norse folks are described as spending their summers "going viking," a verb. However, I have no idea if that is a word from the period or one applied in later translations. And speaking of horns on helmets and Wagner, I am reminded of one of my favorite cartoons. The scene is the dressing room of a Wagnerian soprano at the opera house. She is warming her iron bra in front of a heater before putting it on. Tuck On Jul 24, 2009, at 10:46 PM, Royce Perry wrote: > <grin>...That's fine. It's just me against the rest of the world > anyway...about even odds that. > On a serious note, some scholars question that origin of the word. > The word > Viking doesn't come into use until long After the Norse expansion > period. So > trying to attach a Scandinavian origin to a Western European word is > rather > of a stretch. If it turned up in the Sagas or in Scandinavian or > European > documents or literature contemporaneous to the events it could be a > possible > origin, but highly unlikely two hundred years after the fact. > Remember, the > time frame we are talking about only lasted from the mid 800's until > the > late 900s early 1000s. Little more than 150 years. > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com > ] On > Behalf Of Mike Ridlen > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 6:26 PM > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > Subject: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes > > er....I mean Norse stuff.....no, I think I'll stick with Viking. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Ridlen" <mikeridlen@earthlink.net> > To: <orcadia@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 6:19 PM > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes > > >> I read a book by Bryan Sykes. He said that "viking" meant a little >> creek >> bay. Viking ships could come into these bays undetected as opposed >> to >> ordinary ships that came into the larger bays. The people that >> came to be >> known as Vikings of course slipped into these more hidden bays in >> order to >> surprise the people and plunder and pillage and do the usual Viking >> stuff. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Royce Perry" <perryroyce@hotmail.com> >> To: <orcadia@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 4:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >> >> >>> LOL...Yeah Norman...I know. But we all have our "fingernails on a >>> blackboard" subjects. That's one of mine. The word appears to be >>> late >>> medieval,,,well past the days of the Norse, or Northmen raids. >>> Probably >>> means to "go forth"... And there is NOT any evidence of horns on >>> anyone's >>> helmets!!! But yes, I know I am swimming upstream. Wagner and >>> Hollywood >>> have >>> done their work only too well! >>> And I get twitchy when people start talking about "the Celts" this >>> and >>> "the >>> Celts" that,, as if they were all one people. No such thing as "the >>> Celts"... >>> <puts soap box back under table.....goes back to sleep> <G> >>> R >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com >>> ] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Norman Tulloch >>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 1:03 PM >>> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >>> >>> Royce Perry wrote: >>>> GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was >>>> it was a >>> verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! >>>> >>>> R the Picky >>> >>> Sorry, Royce, but I'd have to describe you as "R the Unrealistic", >>> since >>> Viking has been widely used as a noun (and an adjective too, for >>> that >>> matter) for a long time. I'll concede, though, that I don't know >>> when >>> the word was first used as a noun. >>> >>> Norman T. >>> >>> _______________________________________ >>> Orcadia Group Photo Album >>> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> _______________________________________ >>> Orcadia Group Photo Album >>> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> > > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message _______________________________________ Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just as a matter of interest, here's part of a Wikipedia article on "Viking": _______________________________________________________________________ *Etymology* In Old Norse, the word is spelled víkingr. The word appears on several rune stones found in Scandinavia. In the Icelanders' sagas, víking refers to an overseas expedition (Old Norse fara í víking "to go on an expedition"), and víkingr, to a seaman or warrior taking part in such an expedition. In Old English, the word wicing appears first in the Anglo-Saxon poem, "Widsith", which probably dates from the 9th century. In Old English, and in the writings of Adam von Bremen, the term refers to a pirate, and is not a name for a people or a culture in general. Regardless of its possible origins, the word was used more as a verb than as a noun, and connoted an activity and not a distinct group of individuals. To "go Viking" was distinctly different from Norse seaborne missions of trade and commerce. The word disappeared in Middle English, and was reintroduced as Viking during 18th century Romanticism (the "Viking revival"), with heroic overtones of "barbarian warrior" or noble savage. During the 20th century, the meaning of the term was expanded to refer not only to the raiders, but also to the entire period; it is now, somewhat confusingly, used as a noun both in the original meaning of raiders, warriors or navigators, and to refer to the Scandinavian population in general. As an adjective, the word is used in expressions like "Viking age", "Viking culture", "Viking colony", etc., generally referring to medieval Scandinavia. The pre-Christian Scandinavian population is also referred to as Norse, although that term is properly applied to the whole civilization of Old-Norse-speaking people. In current Scandinavian languages, the term Viking is applied to the people who went away on Viking expeditions, be it for raiding or trading. _______________________________________________________________________ OK, I know Wikipedia articles sometimes need to be treated with caution, but if that article is correct, Viking/viking seems to have been used largely as a noun and an adjective since the 18th century and the verb usage seems to have pretty much disappeared. In fact, if the first paragraph that I've quoted is correct, even in the Icelandic sagas the word "viking" was a noun, meaning "an overseas expedition", with "vikingr" referring to one who took part in such an expedition. Norman T.

You are right about Wikipedia,,,but in this case I think I can live with it. I didn't realize the original form was that old. Most of the rest of my argument still stands; it originally only applied to an activity and those who engaged in it... and not to the entire population. It's the latter use that I object to because it paints the entire period and all the population with the same brush. R -----Original Message----- From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Norman Tulloch Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:59 AM To: orcadia@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes Just as a matter of interest, here's part of a Wikipedia article on "Viking": _______________________________________________________________________ *Etymology* In Old Norse, the word is spelled víkingr. The word appears on several rune stones found in Scandinavia. In the Icelanders' sagas, víking refers to an overseas expedition (Old Norse fara í víking "to go on an expedition"), and víkingr, to a seaman or warrior taking part in such an expedition. In Old English, the word wicing appears first in the Anglo-Saxon poem, "Widsith", which probably dates from the 9th century. In Old English, and in the writings of Adam von Bremen, the term refers to a pirate, and is not a name for a people or a culture in general. Regardless of its possible origins, the word was used more as a verb than as a noun, and connoted an activity and not a distinct group of individuals. To "go Viking" was distinctly different from Norse seaborne missions of trade and commerce. The word disappeared in Middle English, and was reintroduced as Viking during 18th century Romanticism (the "Viking revival"), with heroic overtones of "barbarian warrior" or noble savage. During the 20th century, the meaning of the term was expanded to refer not only to the raiders, but also to the entire period; it is now, somewhat confusingly, used as a noun both in the original meaning of raiders, warriors or navigators, and to refer to the Scandinavian population in general. As an adjective, the word is used in expressions like "Viking age", "Viking culture", "Viking colony", etc., generally referring to medieval Scandinavia. The pre-Christian Scandinavian population is also referred to as Norse, although that term is properly applied to the whole civilization of Old-Norse-speaking people. In current Scandinavian languages, the term Viking is applied to the people who went away on Viking expeditions, be it for raiding or trading. _______________________________________________________________________ OK, I know Wikipedia articles sometimes need to be treated with caution, but if that article is correct, Viking/viking seems to have been used largely as a noun and an adjective since the 18th century and the verb usage seems to have pretty much disappeared. In fact, if the first paragraph that I've quoted is correct, even in the Icelandic sagas the word "viking" was a noun, meaning "an overseas expedition", with "vikingr" referring to one who took part in such an expedition. Norman T. _______________________________________ Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For reference, my use of the term Norse in historical discussions IS to the Old Norse speaking people of Scandinavia, not just the ones that came from the geographic location now called Norway. R -----Original Message----- From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Norman Tulloch Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:59 AM To: orcadia@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes Just as a matter of interest, here's part of a Wikipedia article on "Viking": _______________________________________________________________________ *Etymology* In Old Norse, the word is spelled víkingr. The word appears on several rune stones found in Scandinavia. In the Icelanders' sagas, víking refers to an overseas expedition (Old Norse fara í víking "to go on an expedition"), and víkingr, to a seaman or warrior taking part in such an expedition. In Old English, the word wicing appears first in the Anglo-Saxon poem, "Widsith", which probably dates from the 9th century. In Old English, and in the writings of Adam von Bremen, the term refers to a pirate, and is not a name for a people or a culture in general. Regardless of its possible origins, the word was used more as a verb than as a noun, and connoted an activity and not a distinct group of individuals. To "go Viking" was distinctly different from Norse seaborne missions of trade and commerce. The word disappeared in Middle English, and was reintroduced as Viking during 18th century Romanticism (the "Viking revival"), with heroic overtones of "barbarian warrior" or noble savage. During the 20th century, the meaning of the term was expanded to refer not only to the raiders, but also to the entire period; it is now, somewhat confusingly, used as a noun both in the original meaning of raiders, warriors or navigators, and to refer to the Scandinavian population in general. As an adjective, the word is used in expressions like "Viking age", "Viking culture", "Viking colony", etc., generally referring to medieval Scandinavia. The pre-Christian Scandinavian population is also referred to as Norse, although that term is properly applied to the whole civilization of Old-Norse-speaking people. In current Scandinavian languages, the term Viking is applied to the people who went away on Viking expeditions, be it for raiding or trading. _______________________________________________________________________ OK, I know Wikipedia articles sometimes need to be treated with caution, but if that article is correct, Viking/viking seems to have been used largely as a noun and an adjective since the 18th century and the verb usage seems to have pretty much disappeared. In fact, if the first paragraph that I've quoted is correct, even in the Icelandic sagas the word "viking" was a noun, meaning "an overseas expedition", with "vikingr" referring to one who took part in such an expedition. Norman T. _______________________________________ Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message