Hi there: The name Landseer, and it pertains to Newfoundland dogs, was not ever a derivative of "Landsheer" or of any sheepdog. Skeletons of giant dogs have been found in Newfoundland since the fifth century. Best information is that the dogs were originally Viking in origin. When Leif Erikson discovered North America, aboard his boat he had a large black dog resembling a Newfoundland, called "Oolum." As recent as the 19 century, Norwegians used Newfoundland-like dogs for wolf and bear hunting. It is possible if not probable when you look at a Landseer Newfoundland (black and white), that some Great Pyrenees were bred to Newfoundland dogs by the Basque folks who routinely sailed from their homeland in northern Spain, to Newfoundland for fish. They had their big white pooches in tow, it seems, on these trips, some of which trips of course were recorded assumedly by the sea captains. These Spanish sailor dogs made friends in Newfoundland, and had puppies. A good latter-day report on the Newfoundland dog, was the Newfoundland journal of Aaron Thomas, 1794, which was a diary kept by able seaman Thomas during his voyage to Newfoundland from England, returning home to England in 1795 notes in hand. As to the Landseer name and origin, it is exclusively British, and proudly so. Sir Edwin Landseer (1802-1873) was and is still one of the pre-eminent masters of paintings of animals. He became world famous for his works, was knighted in 1850 and also received a gold medal in Paris in 1855 for his splendid work. The Landseer Newfoundland was proudly named so, after a famous painting of Sir Edwin Landseer called " A Distinguished Member of the Humane Society." If you punch up any Newfoundland site, you can see this incomparable painting of a loveable large black and white Newfoundland dog. Back to the Orkney topic, while a crude but enthusiastic amateur student of Orkney history, I have read and believe that dog bones were found in elaborate stone manmade cave-like structures, carefully excavated by the scientists of the day. I was wondering simply if there was any data from these archaeologists and scientists examining the findings, as to the probable size and structure of these dogs, and if there was similarities that were somewhat commonplace like big leg bones and big skulls. The active Viking connection between Iceland and Orkney was such that one might conclude that dogs travelled back and forth with the people, as expressed herein with Leif Erikson's dog. Newfoundlands are physically, by their structure and nature, a water dog, and their history of involvement with water and people in and around water, further confirms what has been concluded from research, that is that they are of Viking descent, a thousand years ago at least. At 175 pounds, our Landseer family member Logan, was physically trim and fit, fast, an incredible swimmer who would routinely hold his head under water looking for things, and there was even a thought that he had a Norwegian accent. He was no sheepdog--never. And there is no question whatsoever that he was named after a man knighted for painting a picture of one of his ancestors. Maybe someone in Orkney knows about those ancient Viking dogs. It would have made sense for people to have these dogs for niightlong vigil, watching over a sleeping family in the days of the Saga, when out of the blue in the dark of night, someone or some group could arrive, blades in hand, intent on settling some current-day score by burning the house after killing the sleeping occupants. The dogs would make this stealthy task more of a challenge. They also would protect the children, and would pull them from the water, if indeed we are talking about the same breed, which I think we are. In Newfoundland and perhaps in Orkney, they were used to draw fuel wood which was often miles from shore encampments in difficult terrain. Darn sure Leif Erikson's dog wasn't a fabrication. That's where the breed came from originally, according to the dog experts. Stephen On Sunday, December 14, 2003, at 06:31 PM, Wolfgang Schlick wrote: >>>>> He was a gentle giant, an Newfoundland, in fact a Landseer >>>>> Newfoundland, > a black and white fellow named Major Logan (aka Logie), from the Robbie > Burns poem. He weighed 175 pounds. > In the books relating to this breed there is speculation that it came > originally from mainland Europe from the mastiff breed, or from Basque > region of Spain, ... > > Sorry, but that's "a bit confusing" ... it's just "speculations" to > keep the > prices high ... > a Landseer (or Landsheer) has nothing to do with a mastiff ... > the mastiff has nothing to do with the Basque or the (pure white) > pyranees > (sheepdog) ... > > A Landseer (Landsheer) is a sheepdog from the northern parts of Sweden > and > (possibly) an ancestor of the Newfoundland ... > > ... and with his 175 pounds he seems to be a "light heavy weight > champion": > My dearest friend "Floh" (flee) showed 97 vital kilogramms yesterday > :-))) > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

> Thanky you Steven, belatedly, for sharing the beautiful watercolor and the sory about your dog; and am fascinated by this erudite exposition. What a pleasure. Toni in La Conner, Washington state > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

Hi Toni: Glad you liked it. Once it is framed it will keep me focused on my roots. All the best....Stephen On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 11:31 AM, Richard Oliveto/Toni Sammons Oliveto wrote: >> Thanky you Steven, belatedly, for sharing the beautiful watercolor >> and the > sory about your dog; and am fascinated by this erudite exposition. > What a > pleasure. Toni in La Conner, Washington state > >> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the >> word >> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >> > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

On 15 December 2003 14:46, stephen davie wrote: > Back to the Orkney topic, while a crude but enthusiastic amateur > student of Orkney history, I have read and believe that dog > bones were > found in elaborate stone manmade cave-like structures, carefully > excavated by the scientists of the day. I was wondering > simply if there > was any data from these archaeologists and scientists examining the > findings, as to the probable size and structure of these dogs, and if > there was similarities that were somewhat commonplace like big leg > bones and big skulls. Dog skulls have been found within the Neolithic chambered cairns at Cuween (where 24 were found) and Burray (seven found), along with the remains of numerous other animals such as sheep, red deer, otter, pig, sea-eagle, fish, cattle etc etc. A single (small) canine skull was one of the only surviving artefacts after the Iron Age structre Minehowe was "excavated" in 1945. Unfortunately these "excavations" (the crudeness of which is remarked upon by archaeologist John Hedges who examined the Isbister Cairn)took place in the 1800s and as such were not as meticulous as they would have been were the cairns opened today. Reading through an excavation report of the Cuween cairn opening this morning, although he does document the dog bones, there is no real analysis. However, they were, I believe, not big dogs but probably terrier/Jack Russell type of size. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk