I think we've been down this road before, time for a refresher class. RootsWeb: ORCADIA-L Sv: Fegs beuy what??? RE: [ORCADIA] Geo.Mackay ... - ORCADIA-L Archives. From: "Fangel Pedersen" <fangel@amtsraad.kbhamt.dk> Subject: Sv: Fegs beuy what??? ... september 2000 07:15 Emne: Re: Fegs beuy what??? ... http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/ORCADIA/2000-09/0969628692 RootsWeb: ORCADIA-L Re: Fegs beuy what??? RE: [ORCADIA] Geo.Mackay ... - ORCADIA-L Archives. From: "Nick-Durie" <Nick-Durie@aladdinscave.net> Subject: Re: Fegs beuy what??? ... > S. > >. This thread: Fegs beuy what??? ... http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/ORCADIA/2000-09/0969639172 Karen

I am sincerely gratified to learn that others in the world , besides this soul, experience some frustrations and problems trying to interpret with accuracy old Orkney dialects. They poses a truly obnoxious barrier for anyone who seriously tries to learn about their former culture or family from there, by searching very old documents for example. Native languages in North America, crude as they are, are all easily deciphered with the eagerness to help cheerfully extended by people living in those cultures. The same is true for variant twists in French and Spanish which are a North American feature from Louisianna to Quebec to Mexico and Texas. Lots of support material and eager helping hands. Must be a North American pioneer trait, like that great, warm American Southern Hospitality. Fur traders from Orkney and France and elsewhere developed one mixed language with which they could communicate with the Cree Indians in the Hudson's Bay basin. Even that clever, basic blend of tongues has resulted in a book and a dictionary to assist scholars and historians. One poor soul in her late eighties or nineties, a native living in Alaska, is the last living person who knows her native tongue. A university with assistance has compiled a description and dictionary of that language, eager to keep it alive after her passing. Neat! I suppose if one can't get interpreted, these precious old Orcadian documents, then we are bound to rely on the testimony of living amateur historians. Pity. For access denied by any means is in direct conflict with the very purpose of keeping them and maintaining a library in Kirkwall. Opening a book is opening the mind. Perhaps this is why Orkneyinga Saga was published in many languages. The repeated expression that Orcadians are overly "inward", often printed in books I have read, appears to have deep root. Spring is here and the ice is melting. I'll take this Orkney frustration and my fishing line, to the trout waters. Stephen > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/ORCADIA/2000-09/0969628692 > RootsWeb: ORCADIA-L Re: Fegs beuy what??? RE: [ORCADIA] Geo.Mackay ... > - > ORCADIA-L Archives. From: "Nick-Durie" <Nick-Durie@aladdinscave.net> > Subject: Re: > Fegs beuy what??? ... > S. > >. This thread: Fegs beuy what??? ... > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/ORCADIA/2000-09/0969639172 > > Karen > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

Stephan Even when you are frustrated you are a delight to read. I agree with the importance of recovering the old Orkney dialects. It's not just the words that are important but the reflection of how a people looks and thinks on their world is lost. We in the Americas know that if you want to take away a groups culture, you begin by taking away their language. Kathy --- stephen davie <stephen.davie@sympatico.ca> wrote: > I am sincerely gratified to learn that others in the > world , besides > this soul, experience some frustrations and problems > trying to > interpret with accuracy old Orkney dialects. > Stephen > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/ORCADIA/2000-09/0969628692 > > RootsWeb: ORCADIA-L Re: Fegs beuy what??? RE: > [ORCADIA] Geo.Mackay ... > > - > > ORCADIA-L Archives. From: "Nick-Durie" > <Nick-Durie@aladdinscave.net> > > Subject: Re: > > Fegs beuy what??? ... > S. > >. This thread: Fegs > beuy what??? ... > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/ORCADIA/2000-09/0969639172 > > > > Karen > > > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send > an e-mail with the > > word > > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to > orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send > an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to > orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25� http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash

Stephan, Kathy, Sigurd et al: Good conversation here! Wonderful sounds in the poem I quoted below! As a poet I am intrigued by what I am imagining are the 'sounds' of the Orkney/Scots (?) language. I'm new at this, so please be patient. And Kathy as you say, language is the culture keeper. The Native American poets I know are very busy trying to decipher, write down and keep for the generations yet to come, their language groups and their poetry reflects the intensity and integrity of their ceremonies and culture. So, the lovely little poem written and translated below (thanks Sigurd)explains volumes about: importance of seasons, importance of food and types of food grown. If one does not "fill one's belly when the sun leaves", one has a hard winter ahead--beautiful phrase to describe the stark reality. Even beginning the poem with "We've had to cultivate turnips..." lends the image of doing something for survival that one might not want to do, but does anyhow-- Back to language and cultures. My theory is that it is 'not necessary' to make accessible to the whole world the specifics of a language, and that by not doing so, one preserves the culture 'from' the rest of this raging world out here. This is the Native American position taken by the Ogallala Sioux, Pawnee, Pima, Hopi, Navaho and some of the eastern tribes as well. Fascinating to learn that the French/Orkney/Native American trading in Canada spawned a language/dialect! Guess that would have to happen because people would need to talk in order to trade effectively. My, aren't we humans wonderfully inventive? I am finding The Orkneyinga fascinating and am happy to read it in English, however, hearing the ancient words spoken would convey another meaning, something hidden in sound that I'm sure is missing in the translation, but then translation suffers this kind of slippage. Hadn't heard that "Orcadians are overly 'inward', but as I say, I am new at this. If a culture is 'overly inward', there is mostly likely a reason for it. Again, the Native American cultures that I am privy to, are also 'overly inward' and for good reason. And then there is the problem of the papers you refer to being kept in Kirkwall. Of course, information should be available in library form for everyone and I do not know about the translation of texts issue from the Orcadian viewpoint, but I see from your writing, Stephen, that it is an issue. As I see it, the stone circles and archaeological sites 'speak' without spoken language on one level anyhow very eloquently. (And I've only seen pictures--thanks Sigurd.) The conundrum seems to be, if a culture invites the rest of the world, how to keep nasty guests from the table? Judy -----Original Message----- > > From: David Palmquist [mailto:plmquist@uniserve.com] > > Sent: 21 September 2000 03:08 > > > Fegs beuy wur hin tae rise neeps fur minny a lang eer. Putty oan da bondi > > >whaur dudno feull 'is belkie wi neep maet whan da sun geed awiy > > in da dark > > >wis apon is..... > > > Sigurd, please offer a translation; I'm sure what you > > wrote is a > > fascinating, but it's beyond me. > > Fairly simple really. > > Gracious, we've had to cultivate turnips for many years. Pity an farmer who > didn't fill his belly with turnips when the sun left (summer went) and the > dark (winter) was on us.... Always a difficulty when a bodie writes Scots as phonetically as is possible with the roman alphabet. > for us non Scots speakers about Orkney daily life concerns. ----- Original Message ----- From: stephen davie To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] Radio Orkney "tell me more" I am sincerely gratified to learn that others in the world , besides this soul, experience some frustrations and problems trying to interpret with accuracy old Orkney dialects. They poses a truly obnoxious barrier for anyone who seriously tries to learn about their former culture or family from there, by searching very old documents for example. Native languages in North America, crude as they are, are all easily deciphered with the eagerness to help cheerfully extended by people living in those cultures. The same is true for variant twists in French and Spanish which are a North American feature from Louisianna to Quebec to Mexico and Texas. Lots of support material and eager helping hands. Must be a North American pioneer trait, like that great, warm American Southern Hospitality. Fur traders from Orkney and France and elsewhere developed one mixed language with which they could communicate with the Cree Indians in the Hudson's Bay basin. Even that clever, basic blend of tongues has resulted in a book and a dictionary to assist scholars and historians. One poor soul in her late eighties or nineties, a native living in Alaska, is the last living person who knows her native tongue. A university with assistance has compiled a description and dictionary of that language, eager to keep it alive after her passing. Neat! I suppose if one can't get interpreted, these precious old Orcadian documents, then we are bound to rely on the testimony of living amateur historians. Pity. For access denied by any means is in direct conflict with the very purpose of keeping them and maintaining a library in Kirkwall. Opening a book is opening the mind. Perhaps this is why Orkneyinga Saga was published in many languages. The repeated expression that Orcadians are overly "inward", often printed in books I have read, appears to have deep root. Spring is here and the ice is melting. I'll take this Orkney frustration and my fishing line, to the trout waters. Stephen > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/ORCADIA/2000-09/0969628692 > RootsWeb: ORCADIA-L Re: Fegs beuy what??? RE: [ORCADIA] Geo.Mackay ... > - > ORCADIA-L Archives. From: "Nick-Durie" <Nick-Durie@aladdinscave.net> > Subject: Re: > Fegs beuy what??? ... > S. > >. This thread: Fegs beuy what??? ... > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/ORCADIA/2000-09/0969639172 > > Karen > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com