The nice convenient thing about any Island culture, is that there is an element of control as to who comes and goes. In that sense, Orkney like Newfoundland or New Zealand has a leg up on controlling "invaders" and "diluters" of cultural peculiarities. I too am interested in native north american culture. I am proud of my recently fleshed out Orcadian HBC explorer roots, but I must confess that the native stuff is intriguing. Perhaps because in part "I are one". My Grandmother was native. But more revealing, there is a whole society of Orkney/Cree people who's families were neatly recorded by the employer, the Hudson's Bay Company. The Cree language is like listening to music, sung melodically on the lips of those still living the good life on the Bay. They teach their tongue in school, as do the Six Nations, Algonquins, and Ojibways near here. Back when, all these tribes had Orcadian sons-in law. Orcadians and Crees were a solid combination...a natural match so to speak, like fish and chips or beans and rice. I have accumulated some old HBC artifacts. One item I have two of, is a Fort Albany trade medallion dated 1733. I think Joseph Isbister was the factor there in that time frame. His son Alexander, a half breed Cree/Orcadian, returned to England, got a degree in law, and used his unique position in British society as a novelty from over here, to better the relationships between Metis HBC employees and the company. The world shrinks, but it is still a fascinating place is you nose around. On Tuesday, April 20, 2004, at 08:55 AM, Judy wrote: > Stephan, Kathy, Sigurd et al: > Good conversation here! Wonderful sounds in the poem > I quoted below! As a poet I am intrigued by what I am > imagining are the 'sounds' of the Orkney/Scots (?) language. > I'm new at this, so please be patient. > And Kathy as you say, language is the culture keeper. The > Native American poets I know are very busy trying to decipher, > write down and keep for the generations yet to come, their > language groups and their poetry reflects the intensity and > integrity of their ceremonies and culture. > So, the lovely little poem written and translated below > (thanks Sigurd)explains volumes about: importance of seasons, > importance of food and types of food grown. If one does not > "fill one's belly when the sun leaves", one has a hard winter > ahead--beautiful phrase to describe the stark reality. Even > beginning the poem with "We've had to cultivate turnips..." > lends the image of doing something for survival that one > might not want to do, but does anyhow-- > Back to language and cultures. My theory is that it is 'not > necessary' to make accessible to the whole world the specifics > of a language, and that by not doing so, one preserves the culture > 'from' the rest of this raging world out here. This is the Native > American position taken by the Ogallala Sioux, Pawnee, Pima, Hopi, > Navaho and some of the eastern tribes as well. > Fascinating to learn that the French/Orkney/Native American > trading in Canada spawned a language/dialect! Guess that would > have to happen because people would need to talk in order to > trade effectively. My, aren't we humans wonderfully inventive? > I am finding The Orkneyinga fascinating and am happy to > read it in English, however, hearing the ancient words spoken > would convey another meaning, something hidden in sound that > I'm sure is missing in the translation, but then translation suffers > this kind of slippage. > Hadn't heard that "Orcadians are overly 'inward', but as I > say, I am new at this. If a culture is 'overly inward', there is > mostly likely a reason for it. Again, the Native American cultures > that I am privy to, are also 'overly inward' and for good reason. > And then there is the problem of the papers you refer to being > kept in Kirkwall. Of course, information should be available in > library form for everyone and I do not know about the translation > of texts issue from the Orcadian viewpoint, but I see from your > writing, Stephen, that it is an issue. > As I see it, the stone circles and archaeological sites 'speak' > without spoken language on one level anyhow very eloquently. > (And I've only seen pictures--thanks Sigurd.) The conundrum > seems to be, if a culture invites the rest of the world, how to > keep nasty guests from the table? > Judy > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- >>> From: David Palmquist [mailto:plmquist@uniserve.com] >>> Sent: 21 September 2000 03:08 >> >>> Fegs beuy wur hin tae rise neeps fur minny a lang eer. Putty oan da > bondi >>>> whaur dudno feull 'is belkie wi neep maet whan da sun geed awiy >>> in da dark >>>> wis apon is..... >> >>> Sigurd, please offer a translation; I'm sure what you >>> wrote is a >>> fascinating, but it's beyond me. >> >> Fairly simple really. >> >> Gracious, we've had to cultivate turnips for many years. Pity an >> farmer > who >> didn't fill his belly with turnips when the sun left (summer went) >> and the >> dark (winter) was on us.... > > Always a difficulty when a bodie writes Scots as phonetically as is > possible > with the roman alphabet. > >> > > for us non Scots speakers about Orkney daily life concerns. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: stephen davie > To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] Radio Orkney "tell me more" > > > I am sincerely gratified to learn that others in the world , besides > this soul, experience some frustrations and problems trying to > interpret with accuracy old Orkney dialects. They poses a truly > obnoxious barrier for anyone who seriously tries to learn about their > former culture or family from there, by searching very old documents > for example. Native languages in North America, crude as they are, > are > all easily deciphered with the eagerness to help cheerfully extended > by > people living in those cultures. The same is true for variant twists > in > French and Spanish which are a North American feature from Louisianna > to Quebec to Mexico and Texas. Lots of support material and eager > helping hands. Must be a North American pioneer trait, like that > great, > warm American Southern Hospitality. > > Fur traders from Orkney and France and elsewhere developed one mixed > language with which they could communicate with the Cree Indians in > the > Hudson's Bay basin. Even that clever, basic blend of tongues has > resulted in a book and a dictionary to assist scholars and > historians. > One poor soul in her late eighties or nineties, a native living in > Alaska, is the last living person who knows her native tongue. A > university with assistance has compiled a description and dictionary > of > that language, eager to keep it alive after her passing. Neat! > > I suppose if one can't get interpreted, these precious old Orcadian > documents, then we are bound to rely on the testimony of living > amateur > historians. Pity. For access denied by any means is in direct > conflict with the very purpose of keeping them and maintaining a > library in Kirkwall. Opening a book is opening the mind. Perhaps > this > is why Orkneyinga Saga was published in many languages. > > The repeated expression that Orcadians are overly "inward", often > printed in books I have read, appears to have deep root. > > Spring is here and the ice is melting. I'll take this Orkney > frustration and my fishing line, to the trout waters. > > Stephen >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/ORCADIA/2000-09/0969628692 >> RootsWeb: ORCADIA-L Re: Fegs beuy what??? RE: [ORCADIA] Geo.Mackay ... >> - >> ORCADIA-L Archives. From: "Nick-Durie" <Nick-Durie@aladdinscave.net> >> Subject: Re: >> Fegs beuy what??? ... > S. > >. This thread: Fegs beuy what??? ... >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/ORCADIA/2000-09/0969639172 >> >> Karen >> >> >> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the >> word >> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >> > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with > the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

I too have some Native roots. Not Cree though, Cherokee and Shawnee. Much of my spirituality comes from the Native view. I remember when I visited Maeshowe and Scara Brae, such a strong connection I felt to the Southwest area of Canyon De Chelly and the Anasazi peoples. I kept being reminded of the kivas there. They are thousands of years apart, but like the big Sequoias in Scotland and Northwest America, they seem to join roots and hands over distance and time in the center of the Earth. I was thrilled to see some of the Native artifacts in the Stromness museum and learn of the Hudson Bay connection. Also pleased with the integrity the Orcadians treated the Native peoples. What a concept, respect and honesty. Judy, the poem you sent is simple and touching. Thanks Kathy --- stephen davie <stephen.davie@sympatico.ca> wrote: > The nice convenient thing about any Island culture, > is that there is an > element of control as to who comes and goes. In that > sense, Orkney like > Newfoundland or New Zealand has a leg up on > controlling "invaders" and > "diluters" of cultural peculiarities. > > I too am interested in native north american > culture. I am proud of my > recently fleshed out Orcadian HBC explorer roots, > but I must confess > that the native stuff is intriguing. Perhaps because > in part "I are > one". My Grandmother was native. But more revealing, > there is a whole > society of Orkney/Cree people who's families were > neatly recorded by > the employer, the Hudson's Bay Company. The Cree > language is like > listening to music, sung melodically on the lips of > those still living > the good life on the Bay. They teach their tongue in > school, as do the > Six Nations, Algonquins, and Ojibways near here. > Back when, all these > tribes had Orcadian sons-in law. Orcadians and Crees > were a solid > combination...a natural match so to speak, like fish > and chips or beans > and rice. > > I have accumulated some old HBC artifacts. One item > I have two of, is a > Fort Albany trade medallion dated 1733. I think > Joseph Isbister was the > factor there in that time frame. His son Alexander, > a half breed > Cree/Orcadian, returned to England, got a degree in > law, and used his > unique position in British society as a novelty from > over here, to > better the relationships between Metis HBC employees > and the company. > > The world shrinks, but it is still a fascinating > place is you nose > around. > On Tuesday, April 20, 2004, at 08:55 AM, Judy wrote: > > > Stephan, Kathy, Sigurd et al: > > Good conversation here! Wonderful sounds in > the poem > > I quoted below! As a poet I am intrigued by what > I am > > imagining are the 'sounds' of the Orkney/Scots (?) > language. > > I'm new at this, so please be patient. > > And Kathy as you say, language is the culture > keeper. The > > Native American poets I know are very busy trying > to decipher, > > write down and keep for the generations yet to > come, their > > language groups and their poetry reflects the > intensity and > > integrity of their ceremonies and culture. > > So, the lovely little poem written and > translated below > > (thanks Sigurd)explains volumes about: importance > of seasons, > > importance of food and types of food grown. If one > does not > > "fill one's belly when the sun leaves", one has a > hard winter > > ahead--beautiful phrase to describe the stark > reality. Even > > beginning the poem with "We've had to cultivate > turnips..." > > lends the image of doing something for survival > that one > > might not want to do, but does anyhow-- > > Back to language and cultures. My theory is > that it is 'not > > necessary' to make accessible to the whole world > the specifics > > of a language, and that by not doing so, one > preserves the culture > > 'from' the rest of this raging world out here. > This is the Native > > American position taken by the Ogallala Sioux, > Pawnee, Pima, Hopi, > > Navaho and some of the eastern tribes as well. > > Fascinating to learn that the > French/Orkney/Native American > > trading in Canada spawned a language/dialect! > Guess that would > > have to happen because people would need to talk > in order to > > trade effectively. My, aren't we humans > wonderfully inventive? > > I am finding The Orkneyinga fascinating and > am happy to > > read it in English, however, hearing the ancient > words spoken > > would convey another meaning, something hidden in > sound that > > I'm sure is missing in the translation, but then > translation suffers > > this kind of slippage. > > Hadn't heard that "Orcadians are overly > 'inward', but as I > > say, I am new at this. If a culture is 'overly > inward', there is > > mostly likely a reason for it. Again, the Native > American cultures > > that I am privy to, are also 'overly inward' and > for good reason. > > And then there is the problem of the papers you > refer to being > > kept in Kirkwall. Of course, information should > be available in > > library form for everyone and I do not know about > the translation > > of texts issue from the Orcadian viewpoint, but I > see from your > > writing, Stephen, that it is an issue. > > As I see it, the stone circles and > archaeological sites 'speak' > > without spoken language on one level anyhow very > eloquently. > > (And I've only seen pictures--thanks Sigurd.) The > conundrum > > seems to be, if a culture invites the rest of the > world, how to > > keep nasty guests from the table? > > Judy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >>> From: David Palmquist > [mailto:plmquist@uniserve.com] > >>> Sent: 21 September 2000 03:08 > >> > >>> Fegs beuy wur hin tae rise neeps fur minny a > lang eer. Putty oan da > > bondi > >>>> whaur dudno feull 'is belkie wi neep maet whan > da sun geed awiy > >>> in da dark > >>>> wis apon is..... > >> > >>> Sigurd, please offer a translation; I'm sure > what you > >>> wrote is a > >>> fascinating, but it's beyond me. > >> > >> Fairly simple really. > >> > >> Gracious, we've had to cultivate turnips for many > years. Pity an > >> farmer > > who > >> didn't fill his belly with turnips when the sun > left (summer went) > >> and the > >> dark (winter) was on us.... > > > > Always a difficulty when a bodie writes Scots as > phonetically as is > > possible > > with the roman alphabet. > > > >> > > > > for us non Scots speakers about Orkney daily life > concerns. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: stephen davie > > To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 1:14 PM > > Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] Radio Orkney "tell me > more" > > > > > > I am sincerely gratified to learn that others in > the world , besides > > this soul, experience some frustrations and > problems trying to > > interpret with accuracy old Orkney dialects. > They poses a truly > > obnoxious barrier for anyone who seriously tries > to === message truncated === __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25� http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash