The beginning of the so-called "Viking Age" is generally accepted by most scholars to be the raid at Lindisfarne in 793. The culture had its heyday in the 9th and 10th centuries, with the Battle of Stamford Bridge (Vikings vs Anglo-Saxons) and then the Battle of Hastings (Anglo-Saxons vs Normans) in 1066 most usually considered to be the "end" of the age. However it is also worth noting that many consider the Battle of Largs (Scotland) in 1263 to be the ultimate final skirmish initiated by Vikings. It wasn't a big battle and had little historic impact, so it's pretty much been lost in the dust, so to speak. "Vikings" had a good run for about 250+ years. It is worth noting that the Normans who won at Hastings were in fact of Norse descent. "Norman" means North Man, the region of France from whence they came was settled by Norse. But getting back to the original posting... yes, I'm quite keen to see what gets dug up anywhere on Orkney that is Viking. If a person who was very interested in learning more about Vikings in Orkney wanted to plan a visit someday, where would the best 'must see' places be? Is there a museum or have all the best artifacts been carted off to London or someplace? Thanks! ::Linda:: -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Royce Perry Remember, the time frame we are talking about only lasted from the mid 800's until the late 900s early 1000s. Little more than 150 years. R

All, Ah, history. And just what is that? The famous quote says history is written by the winners, and there is truth to that, but how much truth is there to history? OK, so much of history as we know it is skewed and, often, little more than propaganda, yet where would we be without it? When one thinks back on, say, the history of England, one thinks almost immediately of the list of kings marching along, and everything else seems to slot into that. So the Tudor period, the Restoration, the Victorian age and so on all take their place on the grid of royal succession. The same is pretty well true everywhere else, with the French kings, the Chinese, the Inca and so on. And of course that's only a small part of the story, but no one writes down how Mrs. Doobiddle did the laundry on the Monday in 1465. However, the very notion of history is undergoing deep changes. Today historians refer to many kinds of history. Kings and Battles refers to what was generally taught us when we were in school. But there is Social History, Gender History, Economic History, Art History, Histories of Science, Technology, Medicine, and on and on. More and more historians are looking at things other than kings and battles and actually concerning themselves a bit with Mrs. Doobiddle and her laundry. Indeed I would wager someone, somewhere, is studying the history of laundry. Why did only women do the washing? What were the technologies of laundry at various times? Why in hell did Victorian women, walking streets covered with horse droppings, and having no modern washing machines, insist on dragging those long dresses through the muck? Why did Rosa Bonheur, the mid 19th century French sculptor, need permission from the police to wear trousers as she hung out in the corrals? My daughter is an historian, and her subject is the student revolts against the military crackdown in Brazil in the 1960s and 70s. Such things (student reactions to events) have, until the last few decades, been largely overlooked by historians. Perhaps further research will tell us a whole lot more about those curious creatures we call vikings, and exactly what they did, and did not, do. As for that pesky term Viking, it does seem, from this discussion, that the word has early origins, rather different from those used to day, but that it underwent a refurbishing in the 18th and 19th centuries, just as the whole notion of Christmas did, especially in the England of the 19th century, Dickens and all that. So perhaps, for purposes of discussion here, we can agree that viking is a noun describing a certain kind of activity carried out by a small percentage of the population of certain northern countries during a relatively narrow period of history. But those helmets with horns on sure are cool looking! Tuck On Jul 25, 2009, at 7:58 AM, Royce Perry wrote: > Shame on you Stephen....attribute your sources...and if it was > published > later than the mid 1200s it wouldn't support your position anyway. > > A point to conceder, almost everything we think we know about > history is > based on a very tiny part of the population. (This is true for > nearly all > history of any people anywhere and any when) The only things that > survive > are the activities of the nobles, leaders, poets, warriors, priests, > bishops, shamans. People of prominence. We know almost nothing about > the 99% > that just got through life as best they could. The Sagas are > particularly > tricky because they are actually long epic praise poems about the > doings of > the warrior elite. And they were composed by the PR department...the > skalds. > They have a lot of factual history in them, but it's hard to tease > out from > the flack. Think in terms of a rock star's biography written by his > press > agent. Also they were originally oral, and only written down much > later...by > Christian monks. So how much did they "correct" the original > material? We > have the same problem with a lot of the very early Irish and Welch > material. > My issue with using the term "Viking" is that it has been > Hollywooded into a > stereotype for the whole Scandinavian culture of the time, when in > fact was > probably typical of only 1-2% of the population. Sort of like saying > that > the only people that lived in Medieval times were knights, nobles, > kings, > and clergy. > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com > ] On > Behalf Of stephen davie > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:32 PM > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes > > Beg to differ.... > > viking...noun...any of the Scandinavian seafaring pirates or traders > who raided in many of the parts of north western Europe in the 8-11 > centuries. > > viking...the adjective...of or relating to vikings or the period in > which they lived > > OK, I agree that it is a bad handle, especially perhaps for the more > sensitive of us who indeed are descended from Norse forbears who > happened in many Orcadian cases, to be indeed Vikings. I had a touch > of the woozies in reading the details of some of the sagas and other > historic works, but I never got to chose myh parents, and I guess I > am who I am, descended on the side of my father from Kolbein Hruga > and the Thorfins, many of whom fell into that big V category. Combine > those Viking roots with the north american native content, and it is > indeed perplexing if not overwhelming. > > One thing we learned here in Canada with the battle on the Plains of > Abraham, where Montcalm fell to Wolf, in as much as some people try, > ya can't change history. > > Cheers.....Stephen > > > On Jul 24, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Royce Perry wrote: > >> >> GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it >> was a verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! >> >> R the Picky >> >>> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >>> From: stephen.davie@sympatico.ca >>> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:53:06 -0400 >>> Subject: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >>> >>> I was reading today on the www, that a father and son team , in July >>> of 2007, unearthed a viking horde in England which was claimed to be >>> worth a million pounds by some erudite evaluator. My propensity for >>> speculation and romance kicks in again, as I recall the fascinating >>> books of viking lore of the Orkneys, and I can't help but think that >>> some day, some eager body in Orkney is going to unearth, perhaps by >>> accident, an accumulation of sivler coins and jewelry, carefully >>> concealed in the arms and safe keep of mother earth, by the viking >>> who left by the sea on yet another summer raid perhaps, which fellow >>> due to some dramatic and fatal event, never was to return to Orkney >>> to unearth and retreave his stash of previously plundered and horded >>> possessions. >>> >>> Surely I am not the sole keeper of this plausible dream. Indeed, on >>> behalf of all the vikings who lived on Orkney...."Where is the >>> "stuff" our forbears lusted after for all those centuries, when we >>> raided the shores of Scotland, England and Ireland? >>> >>> Two years ago I acquired an underwater metal detector which is >>> discriminatory by type of metal. It has not been out of the case, >>> but >>> this summer we are going to take it to our near north, to examine an >>> old wreck which a very senior citizen visited in the 1930's, and >>> from >>> which he just received a cannon ball. The conjecture is that the >>> boat >>> would not have carried cannon balls, without a cannon. We assume the >>> cannon will be brass, as the portage factor made slugging iron >>> cannons across portages practically impossible. >>> >>> I maintain that Vikings would not embark on viking expeditions, >>> without returning with the components of typical hordes. Based on >>> the >>> population, and the numerous excursions outlined in the sagas alone, >>> there is logic to the view, which will be solidified the day someone >>> trips over such a discovery. Obviously it is likely that many buried >>> treasures there are in the "abeyence" file as to the required >>> reporting to the government. >>> >>> Which begs the question....how many in Orkney have metal >>> detectors? I >>> suppose in light of the covetous albeit appropriate claims by >>> historical authorities in Scotland to any artifiacts exhumed, that >>> people are disinclined to bother, to some extent. When Mel Fisher >>> discovered the Atocha, the sabres rattled over rights and ownership >>> issues, for many years in many courts. When my friend Tracy Bowden >>> exhumed th esilver banks wreck, concepcion (1642) he entertained >>> armed security from the Dominican Republic on his boat for a decade, >>> ensuring that their 50% made it to the museum in Porta Plata. >>> >>> In particular, it seems that Vikings were bead lovers, and one would >>> think that in burial areas and amaongst old ruins, the beads which >>> are durable, would surface on a somewhat regular basis. You might >>> google viking beads, or Dr. Dan Carlsson, who is the acknowledged >>> expert on the subject. I wrote to him once, and he is a very >>> interesting and obviouosly expert historian. IN researching for the >>> book project, I discovered that authors in Scotland interested in >>> Orkney, would travel to Norway to fill in the blanks where Scottish >>> notes were thin in some centuries. >>> >>> The absence of viking possessions in Orkney is redolent of an >>> ongoing >>> mystery, considering that their culture flourished for centuries in >>> Orkney, and the object of their lusty voyages, was in large part, >>> material valuables which would have returned to Orkney and been >>> deposited in their private earthy banks. >>> >>> Looking forward to my trip over to Orkney and Norway in September. >>> >>> Cheers all....stephen >>> _______________________________________ >>> Orcadia Group Photo Album >>> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- >>> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> _______________________________________ >> Orcadia Group Photo Album >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

What are the dates you'll be in South Flat?  I'm in Orphir until Aug. 12th Peggy --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Janice Langland <callmejanice@aol.com> wrote: From: Janice Langland <callmejanice@aol.com> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Ness of Brodgar excavations To: orcadia@rootsweb.com Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 11:10 AM Thanks, Sian.  One of the things I enjoy most about Orkney is the  archaeology, and this is a short walk from the house we usually rent.    The others are the bird life, art, crafts, Orcadians themselves, the  beautiful scenery that changes within seconds as the light changes,  and the food.   This year I'm going for only a week, not our usual long stay, so  I'll be car-free and living in Stromness.  I'm renting South Flat near  the ferry -  in case anyone on this link is interested in dropping by  for a cup of tea. Janice Langland (P.S.  Tuck will not be with me this time.  He'll be in England,  singing in cathedrals while I'm in Orkney with my friend Lynda.) On Jul 24, 2009, at 10:01 AM, Sian Thomas wrote: > The Ness of Brodgar is currently undergoing more excavation by a  > team of > archaeologists.  There's a daily blog posted by members of the team  > via > Sigurd's web site if anyone is interested in keeping up with what is > going on there : http://www.orkneyjar.com/archaeology/nessofbrodgar/ > > > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com >  with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and  > the body of the message _______________________________________ Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For reference, my use of the term Norse in historical discussions IS to the Old Norse speaking people of Scandinavia, not just the ones that came from the geographic location now called Norway. R -----Original Message----- From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Norman Tulloch Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:59 AM To: orcadia@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes Just as a matter of interest, here's part of a Wikipedia article on "Viking": _______________________________________________________________________ *Etymology* In Old Norse, the word is spelled víkingr. The word appears on several rune stones found in Scandinavia. In the Icelanders' sagas, víking refers to an overseas expedition (Old Norse fara í víking "to go on an expedition"), and víkingr, to a seaman or warrior taking part in such an expedition. In Old English, the word wicing appears first in the Anglo-Saxon poem, "Widsith", which probably dates from the 9th century. In Old English, and in the writings of Adam von Bremen, the term refers to a pirate, and is not a name for a people or a culture in general. Regardless of its possible origins, the word was used more as a verb than as a noun, and connoted an activity and not a distinct group of individuals. To "go Viking" was distinctly different from Norse seaborne missions of trade and commerce. The word disappeared in Middle English, and was reintroduced as Viking during 18th century Romanticism (the "Viking revival"), with heroic overtones of "barbarian warrior" or noble savage. During the 20th century, the meaning of the term was expanded to refer not only to the raiders, but also to the entire period; it is now, somewhat confusingly, used as a noun both in the original meaning of raiders, warriors or navigators, and to refer to the Scandinavian population in general. As an adjective, the word is used in expressions like "Viking age", "Viking culture", "Viking colony", etc., generally referring to medieval Scandinavia. The pre-Christian Scandinavian population is also referred to as Norse, although that term is properly applied to the whole civilization of Old-Norse-speaking people. In current Scandinavian languages, the term Viking is applied to the people who went away on Viking expeditions, be it for raiding or trading. _______________________________________________________________________ OK, I know Wikipedia articles sometimes need to be treated with caution, but if that article is correct, Viking/viking seems to have been used largely as a noun and an adjective since the 18th century and the verb usage seems to have pretty much disappeared. In fact, if the first paragraph that I've quoted is correct, even in the Icelandic sagas the word "viking" was a noun, meaning "an overseas expedition", with "vikingr" referring to one who took part in such an expedition. Norman T. _______________________________________ Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

You are right about Wikipedia,,,but in this case I think I can live with it. I didn't realize the original form was that old. Most of the rest of my argument still stands; it originally only applied to an activity and those who engaged in it... and not to the entire population. It's the latter use that I object to because it paints the entire period and all the population with the same brush. R -----Original Message----- From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Norman Tulloch Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:59 AM To: orcadia@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes Just as a matter of interest, here's part of a Wikipedia article on "Viking": _______________________________________________________________________ *Etymology* In Old Norse, the word is spelled víkingr. The word appears on several rune stones found in Scandinavia. In the Icelanders' sagas, víking refers to an overseas expedition (Old Norse fara í víking "to go on an expedition"), and víkingr, to a seaman or warrior taking part in such an expedition. In Old English, the word wicing appears first in the Anglo-Saxon poem, "Widsith", which probably dates from the 9th century. In Old English, and in the writings of Adam von Bremen, the term refers to a pirate, and is not a name for a people or a culture in general. Regardless of its possible origins, the word was used more as a verb than as a noun, and connoted an activity and not a distinct group of individuals. To "go Viking" was distinctly different from Norse seaborne missions of trade and commerce. The word disappeared in Middle English, and was reintroduced as Viking during 18th century Romanticism (the "Viking revival"), with heroic overtones of "barbarian warrior" or noble savage. During the 20th century, the meaning of the term was expanded to refer not only to the raiders, but also to the entire period; it is now, somewhat confusingly, used as a noun both in the original meaning of raiders, warriors or navigators, and to refer to the Scandinavian population in general. As an adjective, the word is used in expressions like "Viking age", "Viking culture", "Viking colony", etc., generally referring to medieval Scandinavia. The pre-Christian Scandinavian population is also referred to as Norse, although that term is properly applied to the whole civilization of Old-Norse-speaking people. In current Scandinavian languages, the term Viking is applied to the people who went away on Viking expeditions, be it for raiding or trading. _______________________________________________________________________ OK, I know Wikipedia articles sometimes need to be treated with caution, but if that article is correct, Viking/viking seems to have been used largely as a noun and an adjective since the 18th century and the verb usage seems to have pretty much disappeared. In fact, if the first paragraph that I've quoted is correct, even in the Icelandic sagas the word "viking" was a noun, meaning "an overseas expedition", with "vikingr" referring to one who took part in such an expedition. Norman T. _______________________________________ Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Shame on you Stephen....attribute your sources...and if it was published later than the mid 1200s it wouldn't support your position anyway. A point to conceder, almost everything we think we know about history is based on a very tiny part of the population. (This is true for nearly all history of any people anywhere and any when) The only things that survive are the activities of the nobles, leaders, poets, warriors, priests, bishops, shamans. People of prominence. We know almost nothing about the 99% that just got through life as best they could. The Sagas are particularly tricky because they are actually long epic praise poems about the doings of the warrior elite. And they were composed by the PR department...the skalds. They have a lot of factual history in them, but it's hard to tease out from the flack. Think in terms of a rock star's biography written by his press agent. Also they were originally oral, and only written down much later...by Christian monks. So how much did they "correct" the original material? We have the same problem with a lot of the very early Irish and Welch material. My issue with using the term "Viking" is that it has been Hollywooded into a stereotype for the whole Scandinavian culture of the time, when in fact was probably typical of only 1-2% of the population. Sort of like saying that the only people that lived in Medieval times were knights, nobles, kings, and clergy. R -----Original Message----- From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of stephen davie Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:32 PM To: orcadia@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes Beg to differ.... viking...noun...any of the Scandinavian seafaring pirates or traders who raided in many of the parts of north western Europe in the 8-11 centuries. viking...the adjective...of or relating to vikings or the period in which they lived OK, I agree that it is a bad handle, especially perhaps for the more sensitive of us who indeed are descended from Norse forbears who happened in many Orcadian cases, to be indeed Vikings. I had a touch of the woozies in reading the details of some of the sagas and other historic works, but I never got to chose myh parents, and I guess I am who I am, descended on the side of my father from Kolbein Hruga and the Thorfins, many of whom fell into that big V category. Combine those Viking roots with the north american native content, and it is indeed perplexing if not overwhelming. One thing we learned here in Canada with the battle on the Plains of Abraham, where Montcalm fell to Wolf, in as much as some people try, ya can't change history. Cheers.....Stephen On Jul 24, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Royce Perry wrote: > > GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it > was a verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! > > R the Picky > >> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >> From: stephen.davie@sympatico.ca >> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:53:06 -0400 >> Subject: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >> >> I was reading today on the www, that a father and son team , in July >> of 2007, unearthed a viking horde in England which was claimed to be >> worth a million pounds by some erudite evaluator. My propensity for >> speculation and romance kicks in again, as I recall the fascinating >> books of viking lore of the Orkneys, and I can't help but think that >> some day, some eager body in Orkney is going to unearth, perhaps by >> accident, an accumulation of sivler coins and jewelry, carefully >> concealed in the arms and safe keep of mother earth, by the viking >> who left by the sea on yet another summer raid perhaps, which fellow >> due to some dramatic and fatal event, never was to return to Orkney >> to unearth and retreave his stash of previously plundered and horded >> possessions. >> >> Surely I am not the sole keeper of this plausible dream. Indeed, on >> behalf of all the vikings who lived on Orkney...."Where is the >> "stuff" our forbears lusted after for all those centuries, when we >> raided the shores of Scotland, England and Ireland? >> >> Two years ago I acquired an underwater metal detector which is >> discriminatory by type of metal. It has not been out of the case, but >> this summer we are going to take it to our near north, to examine an >> old wreck which a very senior citizen visited in the 1930's, and from >> which he just received a cannon ball. The conjecture is that the boat >> would not have carried cannon balls, without a cannon. We assume the >> cannon will be brass, as the portage factor made slugging iron >> cannons across portages practically impossible. >> >> I maintain that Vikings would not embark on viking expeditions, >> without returning with the components of typical hordes. Based on the >> population, and the numerous excursions outlined in the sagas alone, >> there is logic to the view, which will be solidified the day someone >> trips over such a discovery. Obviously it is likely that many buried >> treasures there are in the "abeyence" file as to the required >> reporting to the government. >> >> Which begs the question....how many in Orkney have metal detectors? I >> suppose in light of the covetous albeit appropriate claims by >> historical authorities in Scotland to any artifiacts exhumed, that >> people are disinclined to bother, to some extent. When Mel Fisher >> discovered the Atocha, the sabres rattled over rights and ownership >> issues, for many years in many courts. When my friend Tracy Bowden >> exhumed th esilver banks wreck, concepcion (1642) he entertained >> armed security from the Dominican Republic on his boat for a decade, >> ensuring that their 50% made it to the museum in Porta Plata. >> >> In particular, it seems that Vikings were bead lovers, and one would >> think that in burial areas and amaongst old ruins, the beads which >> are durable, would surface on a somewhat regular basis. You might >> google viking beads, or Dr. Dan Carlsson, who is the acknowledged >> expert on the subject. I wrote to him once, and he is a very >> interesting and obviouosly expert historian. IN researching for the >> book project, I discovered that authors in Scotland interested in >> Orkney, would travel to Norway to fill in the blanks where Scottish >> notes were thin in some centuries. >> >> The absence of viking possessions in Orkney is redolent of an ongoing >> mystery, considering that their culture flourished for centuries in >> Orkney, and the object of their lusty voyages, was in large part, >> material valuables which would have returned to Orkney and been >> deposited in their private earthy banks. >> >> Looking forward to my trip over to Orkney and Norway in September. >> >> Cheers all....stephen >> _______________________________________ >> Orcadia Group Photo Album >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > _______________________________________ Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Probably later translations. It isn't an Old Norse word, and from what I have read in a couple of places the more accurate translation of the Old Norse word used would be closer to pirate. R -----Original Message----- From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tuck Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:23 PM To: orcadia@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes All, In the Orkneyinga Saga those Norse folks are described as spending their summers "going viking," a verb. However, I have no idea if that is a word from the period or one applied in later translations. And speaking of horns on helmets and Wagner, I am reminded of one of my favorite cartoons. The scene is the dressing room of a Wagnerian soprano at the opera house. She is warming her iron bra in front of a heater before putting it on. Tuck On Jul 24, 2009, at 10:46 PM, Royce Perry wrote: > <grin>...That's fine. It's just me against the rest of the world > anyway...about even odds that. > On a serious note, some scholars question that origin of the word. > The word > Viking doesn't come into use until long After the Norse expansion > period. So > trying to attach a Scandinavian origin to a Western European word is > rather > of a stretch. If it turned up in the Sagas or in Scandinavian or > European > documents or literature contemporaneous to the events it could be a > possible > origin, but highly unlikely two hundred years after the fact. > Remember, the > time frame we are talking about only lasted from the mid 800's until > the > late 900s early 1000s. Little more than 150 years. > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com > ] On > Behalf Of Mike Ridlen > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 6:26 PM > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > Subject: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes > > er....I mean Norse stuff.....no, I think I'll stick with Viking. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Ridlen" <mikeridlen@earthlink.net> > To: <orcadia@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 6:19 PM > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes > > >> I read a book by Bryan Sykes. He said that "viking" meant a little >> creek >> bay. Viking ships could come into these bays undetected as opposed >> to >> ordinary ships that came into the larger bays. The people that >> came to be >> known as Vikings of course slipped into these more hidden bays in >> order to >> surprise the people and plunder and pillage and do the usual Viking >> stuff. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Royce Perry" <perryroyce@hotmail.com> >> To: <orcadia@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 4:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >> >> >>> LOL...Yeah Norman...I know. But we all have our "fingernails on a >>> blackboard" subjects. That's one of mine. The word appears to be >>> late >>> medieval,,,well past the days of the Norse, or Northmen raids. >>> Probably >>> means to "go forth"... And there is NOT any evidence of horns on >>> anyone's >>> helmets!!! But yes, I know I am swimming upstream. Wagner and >>> Hollywood >>> have >>> done their work only too well! >>> And I get twitchy when people start talking about "the Celts" this >>> and >>> "the >>> Celts" that,, as if they were all one people. No such thing as "the >>> Celts"... >>> <puts soap box back under table.....goes back to sleep> <G> >>> R >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com >>> ] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Norman Tulloch >>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 1:03 PM >>> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >>> >>> Royce Perry wrote: >>>> GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was >>>> it was a >>> verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! >>>> >>>> R the Picky >>> >>> Sorry, Royce, but I'd have to describe you as "R the Unrealistic", >>> since >>> Viking has been widely used as a noun (and an adjective too, for >>> that >>> matter) for a long time. I'll concede, though, that I don't know >>> when >>> the word was first used as a noun. >>> >>> Norman T. >>> >>> _______________________________________ >>> Orcadia Group Photo Album >>> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> _______________________________________ >>> Orcadia Group Photo Album >>> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> > > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message _______________________________________ Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

<snicker>....Well, after Don Quixote died somebody had to take over the job of tilting at windmills...might as well be another demented old man. R -----Original Message----- From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of marion@fairpoint.net Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:39 PM To: orcadia@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes good luck! Marion > > GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it was a > verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! > > R the Picky > _______________________________________ Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Beg to differ.... viking...noun...any of the Scandinavian seafaring pirates or traders who raided in many of the parts of north western Europe in the 8-11 centuries. viking...the adjective...of or relating to vikings or the period in which they lived OK, I agree that it is a bad handle, especially perhaps for the more sensitive of us who indeed are descended from Norse forbears who happened in many Orcadian cases, to be indeed Vikings. I had a touch of the woozies in reading the details of some of the sagas and other historic works, but I never got to chose myh parents, and I guess I am who I am, descended on the side of my father from Kolbein Hruga and the Thorfins, many of whom fell into that big V category. Combine those Viking roots with the north american native content, and it is indeed perplexing if not overwhelming. One thing we learned here in Canada with the battle on the Plains of Abraham, where Montcalm fell to Wolf, in as much as some people try, ya can't change history. Cheers.....Stephen On Jul 24, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Royce Perry wrote: > > GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it > was a verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! > > R the Picky > >> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >> From: stephen.davie@sympatico.ca >> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:53:06 -0400 >> Subject: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >> >> I was reading today on the www, that a father and son team , in July >> of 2007, unearthed a viking horde in England which was claimed to be >> worth a million pounds by some erudite evaluator. My propensity for >> speculation and romance kicks in again, as I recall the fascinating >> books of viking lore of the Orkneys, and I can't help but think that >> some day, some eager body in Orkney is going to unearth, perhaps by >> accident, an accumulation of sivler coins and jewelry, carefully >> concealed in the arms and safe keep of mother earth, by the viking >> who left by the sea on yet another summer raid perhaps, which fellow >> due to some dramatic and fatal event, never was to return to Orkney >> to unearth and retreave his stash of previously plundered and horded >> possessions. >> >> Surely I am not the sole keeper of this plausible dream. Indeed, on >> behalf of all the vikings who lived on Orkney...."Where is the >> "stuff" our forbears lusted after for all those centuries, when we >> raided the shores of Scotland, England and Ireland? >> >> Two years ago I acquired an underwater metal detector which is >> discriminatory by type of metal. It has not been out of the case, but >> this summer we are going to take it to our near north, to examine an >> old wreck which a very senior citizen visited in the 1930's, and from >> which he just received a cannon ball. The conjecture is that the boat >> would not have carried cannon balls, without a cannon. We assume the >> cannon will be brass, as the portage factor made slugging iron >> cannons across portages practically impossible. >> >> I maintain that Vikings would not embark on viking expeditions, >> without returning with the components of typical hordes. Based on the >> population, and the numerous excursions outlined in the sagas alone, >> there is logic to the view, which will be solidified the day someone >> trips over such a discovery. Obviously it is likely that many buried >> treasures there are in the "abeyence" file as to the required >> reporting to the government. >> >> Which begs the question....how many in Orkney have metal detectors? I >> suppose in light of the covetous albeit appropriate claims by >> historical authorities in Scotland to any artifiacts exhumed, that >> people are disinclined to bother, to some extent. When Mel Fisher >> discovered the Atocha, the sabres rattled over rights and ownership >> issues, for many years in many courts. When my friend Tracy Bowden >> exhumed th esilver banks wreck, concepcion (1642) he entertained >> armed security from the Dominican Republic on his boat for a decade, >> ensuring that their 50% made it to the museum in Porta Plata. >> >> In particular, it seems that Vikings were bead lovers, and one would >> think that in burial areas and amaongst old ruins, the beads which >> are durable, would surface on a somewhat regular basis. You might >> google viking beads, or Dr. Dan Carlsson, who is the acknowledged >> expert on the subject. I wrote to him once, and he is a very >> interesting and obviouosly expert historian. IN researching for the >> book project, I discovered that authors in Scotland interested in >> Orkney, would travel to Norway to fill in the blanks where Scottish >> notes were thin in some centuries. >> >> The absence of viking possessions in Orkney is redolent of an ongoing >> mystery, considering that their culture flourished for centuries in >> Orkney, and the object of their lusty voyages, was in large part, >> material valuables which would have returned to Orkney and been >> deposited in their private earthy banks. >> >> Looking forward to my trip over to Orkney and Norway in September. >> >> Cheers all....stephen >> _______________________________________ >> Orcadia Group Photo Album >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

All, In the Orkneyinga Saga those Norse folks are described as spending their summers "going viking," a verb. However, I have no idea if that is a word from the period or one applied in later translations. And speaking of horns on helmets and Wagner, I am reminded of one of my favorite cartoons. The scene is the dressing room of a Wagnerian soprano at the opera house. She is warming her iron bra in front of a heater before putting it on. Tuck On Jul 24, 2009, at 10:46 PM, Royce Perry wrote: > <grin>...That's fine. It's just me against the rest of the world > anyway...about even odds that. > On a serious note, some scholars question that origin of the word. > The word > Viking doesn't come into use until long After the Norse expansion > period. So > trying to attach a Scandinavian origin to a Western European word is > rather > of a stretch. If it turned up in the Sagas or in Scandinavian or > European > documents or literature contemporaneous to the events it could be a > possible > origin, but highly unlikely two hundred years after the fact. > Remember, the > time frame we are talking about only lasted from the mid 800's until > the > late 900s early 1000s. Little more than 150 years. > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com > ] On > Behalf Of Mike Ridlen > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 6:26 PM > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > Subject: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes > > er....I mean Norse stuff.....no, I think I'll stick with Viking. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Ridlen" <mikeridlen@earthlink.net> > To: <orcadia@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 6:19 PM > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes > > >> I read a book by Bryan Sykes. He said that "viking" meant a little >> creek >> bay. Viking ships could come into these bays undetected as opposed >> to >> ordinary ships that came into the larger bays. The people that >> came to be >> known as Vikings of course slipped into these more hidden bays in >> order to >> surprise the people and plunder and pillage and do the usual Viking >> stuff. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Royce Perry" <perryroyce@hotmail.com> >> To: <orcadia@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 4:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >> >> >>> LOL...Yeah Norman...I know. But we all have our "fingernails on a >>> blackboard" subjects. That's one of mine. The word appears to be >>> late >>> medieval,,,well past the days of the Norse, or Northmen raids. >>> Probably >>> means to "go forth"... And there is NOT any evidence of horns on >>> anyone's >>> helmets!!! But yes, I know I am swimming upstream. Wagner and >>> Hollywood >>> have >>> done their work only too well! >>> And I get twitchy when people start talking about "the Celts" this >>> and >>> "the >>> Celts" that,, as if they were all one people. No such thing as "the >>> Celts"... >>> <puts soap box back under table.....goes back to sleep> <G> >>> R >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com >>> ] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Norman Tulloch >>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 1:03 PM >>> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >>> >>> Royce Perry wrote: >>>> GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was >>>> it was a >>> verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! >>>> >>>> R the Picky >>> >>> Sorry, Royce, but I'd have to describe you as "R the Unrealistic", >>> since >>> Viking has been widely used as a noun (and an adjective too, for >>> that >>> matter) for a long time. I'll concede, though, that I don't know >>> when >>> the word was first used as a noun. >>> >>> Norman T. >>> >>> _______________________________________ >>> Orcadia Group Photo Album >>> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> _______________________________________ >>> Orcadia Group Photo Album >>> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> > > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

<grin>...That's fine. It's just me against the rest of the world anyway...about even odds that. On a serious note, some scholars question that origin of the word. The word Viking doesn't come into use until long After the Norse expansion period. So trying to attach a Scandinavian origin to a Western European word is rather of a stretch. If it turned up in the Sagas or in Scandinavian or European documents or literature contemporaneous to the events it could be a possible origin, but highly unlikely two hundred years after the fact. Remember, the time frame we are talking about only lasted from the mid 800's until the late 900s early 1000s. Little more than 150 years. R -----Original Message----- From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mike Ridlen Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 6:26 PM To: orcadia@rootsweb.com Subject: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes er....I mean Norse stuff.....no, I think I'll stick with Viking. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ridlen" <mikeridlen@earthlink.net> To: <orcadia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >I read a book by Bryan Sykes. He said that "viking" meant a little creek >bay. Viking ships could come into these bays undetected as opposed to >ordinary ships that came into the larger bays. The people that came to be >known as Vikings of course slipped into these more hidden bays in order to >surprise the people and plunder and pillage and do the usual Viking stuff. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Royce Perry" <perryroyce@hotmail.com> > To: <orcadia@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 4:45 PM > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes > > >> LOL...Yeah Norman...I know. But we all have our "fingernails on a >> blackboard" subjects. That's one of mine. The word appears to be late >> medieval,,,well past the days of the Norse, or Northmen raids. Probably >> means to "go forth"... And there is NOT any evidence of horns on anyone's >> helmets!!! But yes, I know I am swimming upstream. Wagner and Hollywood >> have >> done their work only too well! >> And I get twitchy when people start talking about "the Celts" this and >> "the >> Celts" that,, as if they were all one people. No such thing as "the >> Celts"... >> <puts soap box back under table.....goes back to sleep> <G> >> R >> -----Original Message----- >> From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] >> On >> Behalf Of Norman Tulloch >> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 1:03 PM >> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >> >> Royce Perry wrote: >>> GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it was a >> verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! >>> >>> R the Picky >> >> Sorry, Royce, but I'd have to describe you as "R the Unrealistic", since >> Viking has been widely used as a noun (and an adjective too, for that >> matter) for a long time. I'll concede, though, that I don't know when >> the word was first used as a noun. >> >> Norman T. >> >> _______________________________________ >> Orcadia Group Photo Album >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> _______________________________________ >> Orcadia Group Photo Album >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > _______________________________________ Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Royce Perry wrote: > GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it was a verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! > > R the Picky Sorry, Royce, but I'd have to describe you as "R the Unrealistic", since Viking has been widely used as a noun (and an adjective too, for that matter) for a long time. I'll concede, though, that I don't know when the word was first used as a noun. Norman T.

er....I mean Norse stuff.....no, I think I'll stick with Viking. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ridlen" <mikeridlen@earthlink.net> To: <orcadia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >I read a book by Bryan Sykes. He said that "viking" meant a little creek >bay. Viking ships could come into these bays undetected as opposed to >ordinary ships that came into the larger bays. The people that came to be >known as Vikings of course slipped into these more hidden bays in order to >surprise the people and plunder and pillage and do the usual Viking stuff. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Royce Perry" <perryroyce@hotmail.com> > To: <orcadia@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 4:45 PM > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes > > >> LOL...Yeah Norman...I know. But we all have our "fingernails on a >> blackboard" subjects. That's one of mine. The word appears to be late >> medieval,,,well past the days of the Norse, or Northmen raids. Probably >> means to "go forth"... And there is NOT any evidence of horns on anyone's >> helmets!!! But yes, I know I am swimming upstream. Wagner and Hollywood >> have >> done their work only too well! >> And I get twitchy when people start talking about "the Celts" this and >> "the >> Celts" that,, as if they were all one people. No such thing as "the >> Celts"... >> <puts soap box back under table.....goes back to sleep> <G> >> R >> -----Original Message----- >> From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] >> On >> Behalf Of Norman Tulloch >> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 1:03 PM >> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >> >> Royce Perry wrote: >>> GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it was a >> verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! >>> >>> R the Picky >> >> Sorry, Royce, but I'd have to describe you as "R the Unrealistic", since >> Viking has been widely used as a noun (and an adjective too, for that >> matter) for a long time. I'll concede, though, that I don't know when >> the word was first used as a noun. >> >> Norman T. >> >> _______________________________________ >> Orcadia Group Photo Album >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> _______________________________________ >> Orcadia Group Photo Album >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >

I read a book by Bryan Sykes. He said that "viking" meant a little creek bay. Viking ships could come into these bays undetected as opposed to ordinary ships that came into the larger bays. The people that came to be known as Vikings of course slipped into these more hidden bays in order to surprise the people and plunder and pillage and do the usual Viking stuff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Royce Perry" <perryroyce@hotmail.com> To: <orcadia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes > LOL...Yeah Norman...I know. But we all have our "fingernails on a > blackboard" subjects. That's one of mine. The word appears to be late > medieval,,,well past the days of the Norse, or Northmen raids. Probably > means to "go forth"... And there is NOT any evidence of horns on anyone's > helmets!!! But yes, I know I am swimming upstream. Wagner and Hollywood > have > done their work only too well! > And I get twitchy when people start talking about "the Celts" this and > "the > Celts" that,, as if they were all one people. No such thing as "the > Celts"... > <puts soap box back under table.....goes back to sleep> <G> > R > -----Original Message----- > From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On > Behalf Of Norman Tulloch > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 1:03 PM > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes > > Royce Perry wrote: >> GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it was a > verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! >> >> R the Picky > > Sorry, Royce, but I'd have to describe you as "R the Unrealistic", since > Viking has been widely used as a noun (and an adjective too, for that > matter) for a long time. I'll concede, though, that I don't know when > the word was first used as a noun. > > Norman T. > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

LOL...Yeah Norman...I know. But we all have our "fingernails on a blackboard" subjects. That's one of mine. The word appears to be late medieval,,,well past the days of the Norse, or Northmen raids. Probably means to "go forth"... And there is NOT any evidence of horns on anyone's helmets!!! But yes, I know I am swimming upstream. Wagner and Hollywood have done their work only too well! And I get twitchy when people start talking about "the Celts" this and "the Celts" that,, as if they were all one people. No such thing as "the Celts"... <puts soap box back under table.....goes back to sleep> <G> R -----Original Message----- From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Norman Tulloch Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 1:03 PM To: orcadia@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes Royce Perry wrote: > GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it was a verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! > > R the Picky Sorry, Royce, but I'd have to describe you as "R the Unrealistic", since Viking has been widely used as a noun (and an adjective too, for that matter) for a long time. I'll concede, though, that I don't know when the word was first used as a noun. Norman T. _______________________________________ Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

good luck! Marion > > GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it was a > verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! > > R the Picky >

September will be a good month for you to go to Orkney Stephen. I have had to postpone my trip for awhile - cancer came back so I am undergoing chemo. So far, so good - no ill effects so far. Marion > > Looking forward to my trip over to Orkney and Norway in September. > > Cheers all....stephen

From Sigurd Towrie's "Orkneyjar": http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/vikingorkney/hoards.htm There have been many Viking artefacts found in Orkney, but I don't know of any recent finds of gold, silver, etc. The Skaill hoard: http://www.hunterian.gla.ac.uk/archive/vikings/hoard.html The Scar Boat Burial: http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/scarboat/ The best-known treasure hoard from the Northern Isles must be that found at St Ninian's Isle in Shetland. It was discovered in 1958, and was thought to have been hurriedly concealed in around 800 AD to keep it from Viking invaders (so of course it isn't Viking treasure). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Ninian%27s_Isle Maybe the Vikings were sufficiently secure in Orkney that they didn't need to bury their possessions in the ground to keep them from invaders? Norman T.

The Ness of Brodgar is currently undergoing more excavation by a team of archaeologists. There's a daily blog posted by members of the team via Sigurd's web site if anyone is interested in keeping up with what is going on there : http://www.orkneyjar.com/archaeology/nessofbrodgar/

Hi Tuck... Well, the brass casnnon theory was not mine, but the old gentleman who made the claim, is an historian from Ohio with holdings in Ontario, and his story was that someone told him that there were some cannons of brass which were smaller and cast thinner. I guess if the boom and smoke didn't scare off the natives, maybe the glitter of the brass in the sun would do it! A cannon ball tu rned up last week, and bears a thick coating of rust. We identified the wreck from which it was retrieved years ago. I like you am convinced, based on simple logic and historical evidence, that some of Orkney's best kept treasures in terms of historical artifacts, still lay beneath the soils. Cheers....Stephen On Jul 24, 2009, at 11:35 AM, Tuck wrote: > Steven, > > Very interesting about Viking artifacts. You are almost certainly > right that loot was buried and never retrieved. The question is how > much, where, and what kind of loot. It does make the purchase of a > metal detector a good investment, I would think. That would be a good > step towards answering an even more important question, how to find > it. > > But just a thought about canons. Your inference that a canon ball > implies canon is pretty unassailable. However, your suggestion that > the canon might be brass (or bronze - close cousins) rather than iron > for transporting purposes is flawed. > > First of all, brass weighs 534 pounds per cubit foot, while iron > (surprisingly) weighs only 450 pounds per cubit foot, thus is actually > lighter. Further, iron, being stronger, can be cast thinner for equal > strength, making iron canons most likely a good deal lighter than > brass or bronze ones. Unfortunately, iron corrodes rather badly , > especially in sea water, and though it does throw up a hard coating, > there is likely to be less of an iron canon lying on the bottom than a > brass one. > > Anyway, good luck with the metal detector. After digging up dozens of > bottle caps, and then getting all excited when it goes berserk, only > to find some aluminium foil, you will certainly begin to discern > significant readings from trivial ones, and who knows, you might just > find the big one. > > Keep us posted. > > Tuck > On Jul 24, 2009, at 10:53 AM, stephen davie wrote: > >> I was reading today on the www, that a father and son team , in July >> of 2007, unearthed a viking horde in England which was claimed to be >> worth a million pounds by some erudite evaluator. My propensity for >> speculation and romance kicks in again, as I recall the fascinating >> books of viking lore of the Orkneys, and I can't help but think that >> some day, some eager body in Orkney is going to unearth, perhaps by >> accident, an accumulation of sivler coins and jewelry, carefully >> concealed in the arms and safe keep of mother earth, by the viking >> who left by the sea on yet another summer raid perhaps, which fellow >> due to some dramatic and fatal event, never was to return to Orkney >> to unearth and retreave his stash of previously plundered and horded >> possessions. >> >> Surely I am not the sole keeper of this plausible dream. Indeed, on >> behalf of all the vikings who lived on Orkney...."Where is the >> "stuff" our forbears lusted after for all those centuries, when we >> raided the shores of Scotland, England and Ireland? >> >> Two years ago I acquired an underwater metal detector which is >> discriminatory by type of metal. It has not been out of the case, but >> this summer we are going to take it to our near north, to examine an >> old wreck which a very senior citizen visited in the 1930's, and from >> which he just received a cannon ball. The conjecture is that the boat >> would not have carried cannon balls, without a cannon. We assume the >> cannon will be brass, as the portage factor made slugging iron >> cannons across portages practically impossible. >> >> I maintain that Vikings would not embark on viking expeditions, >> without returning with the components of typical hordes. Based on the >> population, and the numerous excursions outlined in the sagas alone, >> there is logic to the view, which will be solidified the day someone >> trips over such a discovery. Obviously it is likely that many buried >> treasures there are in the "abeyence" file as to the required >> reporting to the government. >> >> Which begs the question....how many in Orkney have metal detectors? I >> suppose in light of the covetous albeit appropriate claims by >> historical authorities in Scotland to any artifiacts exhumed, that >> people are disinclined to bother, to some extent. When Mel Fisher >> discovered the Atocha, the sabres rattled over rights and ownership >> issues, for many years in many courts. When my friend Tracy Bowden >> exhumed th esilver banks wreck, concepcion (1642) he entertained >> armed security from the Dominican Republic on his boat for a decade, >> ensuring that their 50% made it to the museum in Porta Plata. >> >> In particular, it seems that Vikings were bead lovers, and one would >> think that in burial areas and amaongst old ruins, the beads which >> are durable, would surface on a somewhat regular basis. You might >> google viking beads, or Dr. Dan Carlsson, who is the acknowledged >> expert on the subject. I wrote to him once, and he is a very >> interesting and obviouosly expert historian. IN researching for the >> book project, I discovered that authors in Scotland interested in >> Orkney, would travel to Norway to fill in the blanks where Scottish >> notes were thin in some centuries. >> >> The absence of viking possessions in Orkney is redolent of an ongoing >> mystery, considering that their culture flourished for centuries in >> Orkney, and the object of their lusty voyages, was in large part, >> material valuables which would have returned to Orkney and been >> deposited in their private earthy banks. >> >> Looking forward to my trip over to Orkney and Norway in September. >> >> Cheers all....stephen >> _______________________________________ >> Orcadia Group Photo Album >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- >> request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >