Oh and the Spelling is Skara Brae Let me know if there are others you are unsure of, I think I can name most > From: perryroyce@hotmail.com > To: dennice-goudie@shaw.ca; orcadia@rootsweb.com > Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 07:52:13 -0500 > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] in the signature of all postings > > That is a Flickr "Set" that I created on my account for any pictures members > of this group want to put up. Flickr wouldn't let me change the file names > (CIGM0064...etc) but I can change/add titles and descriptions, If I have the > information. I went through them and fixed the ones I could, but would need > help from the person that sent them to me on the rest. As far as the ones > you seem to be interested in, that's going to be harder. Those are from a > friend that lives south of Sterling. She travels a lot in her work and had a > three day assignment in Orkney a couple of years ago. Although a native > Scot, she had never been to Orkney before. She knows I have an interest in > Orkney, so she took those and sent them to me. Problem is she is going > through some serious medical issues right now with an uncertain outcome. So > I can't ask her about them. Some we can all identify the Ring, Skarea (?) > Brea, the Cathedral. But the street scenes I haven't a clue, and doubt that > she would remember either, even if she was up to trying. Best I remember, > they would be somewhere in Kirkwall, I don't think she went to any of the > other towns. Maybe some of our Orkney residents recognize them? > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Dennice Goudie > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 2:01 PM > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > Subject: [ORCADIA] in the signature of all postings > > Is this link: Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > > As someone who is a descendant of one who was christened and joined the > Hudson's Bay Company at Stromness, his parents married at Evie and > Rendall -- I am **extremely** curious regarding the area/street/gathering of > > dwellings. > > Would the owner of the flickr account be of a mind to change the camera > numbering (?? .. e.g. CIMG0064) to a more descriptive name. Please and thank > > you. > > What can I say, I miss Sigurd's Orkneyjar links > http://www.orkneyjar.com/portfolio/scenes/stromness/index.html --- > thankfully he still keeps his site additions fairly up-to-date with his busy > > life. > > Regards, > > Dennice Goudie > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~goudied/ <<< barebones > site > Soon to be published: > http://www.dgoudie-genealogy.co.uk/ > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

CIMG0072 M&Co is 25 Albert St Kirkwall CIMG0071 also Albert St (Ortak is at #10) This I found out using Google Maps - if you have the actual file of the others I can enhance the signs and find out where they are as well... given its cobbled I would assume all along Albert St or in the nearby area. And all this info from my desk in Canada :) > From: perryroyce@hotmail.com > To: dennice-goudie@shaw.ca; orcadia@rootsweb.com > Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 07:52:13 -0500 > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] in the signature of all postings > > That is a Flickr "Set" that I created on my account for any pictures members > of this group want to put up. Flickr wouldn't let me change the file names > (CIGM0064...etc) but I can change/add titles and descriptions, If I have the > information. I went through them and fixed the ones I could, but would need > help from the person that sent them to me on the rest. As far as the ones > you seem to be interested in, that's going to be harder. Those are from a > friend that lives south of Sterling. She travels a lot in her work and had a > three day assignment in Orkney a couple of years ago. Although a native > Scot, she had never been to Orkney before. She knows I have an interest in > Orkney, so she took those and sent them to me. Problem is she is going > through some serious medical issues right now with an uncertain outcome. So > I can't ask her about them. Some we can all identify the Ring, Skarea (?) > Brea, the Cathedral. But the street scenes I haven't a clue, and doubt that > she would remember either, even if she was up to trying. Best I remember, > they would be somewhere in Kirkwall, I don't think she went to any of the > other towns. Maybe some of our Orkney residents recognize them? > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Dennice Goudie > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 2:01 PM > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > Subject: [ORCADIA] in the signature of all postings > > Is this link: Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > > As someone who is a descendant of one who was christened and joined the > Hudson's Bay Company at Stromness, his parents married at Evie and > Rendall -- I am **extremely** curious regarding the area/street/gathering of > > dwellings. > > Would the owner of the flickr account be of a mind to change the camera > numbering (?? .. e.g. CIMG0064) to a more descriptive name. Please and thank > > you. > > What can I say, I miss Sigurd's Orkneyjar links > http://www.orkneyjar.com/portfolio/scenes/stromness/index.html --- > thankfully he still keeps his site additions fairly up-to-date with his busy > > life. > > Regards, > > Dennice Goudie > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~goudied/ <<< barebones > site > Soon to be published: > http://www.dgoudie-genealogy.co.uk/ > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That is a Flickr "Set" that I created on my account for any pictures members of this group want to put up. Flickr wouldn't let me change the file names (CIGM0064...etc) but I can change/add titles and descriptions, If I have the information. I went through them and fixed the ones I could, but would need help from the person that sent them to me on the rest. As far as the ones you seem to be interested in, that's going to be harder. Those are from a friend that lives south of Sterling. She travels a lot in her work and had a three day assignment in Orkney a couple of years ago. Although a native Scot, she had never been to Orkney before. She knows I have an interest in Orkney, so she took those and sent them to me. Problem is she is going through some serious medical issues right now with an uncertain outcome. So I can't ask her about them. Some we can all identify the Ring, Skarea (?) Brea, the Cathedral. But the street scenes I haven't a clue, and doubt that she would remember either, even if she was up to trying. Best I remember, they would be somewhere in Kirkwall, I don't think she went to any of the other towns. Maybe some of our Orkney residents recognize them? R -----Original Message----- From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dennice Goudie Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 2:01 PM To: orcadia@rootsweb.com Subject: [ORCADIA] in the signature of all postings Is this link: Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x As someone who is a descendant of one who was christened and joined the Hudson's Bay Company at Stromness, his parents married at Evie and Rendall -- I am **extremely** curious regarding the area/street/gathering of dwellings. Would the owner of the flickr account be of a mind to change the camera numbering (?? .. e.g. CIMG0064) to a more descriptive name. Please and thank you. What can I say, I miss Sigurd's Orkneyjar links http://www.orkneyjar.com/portfolio/scenes/stromness/index.html --- thankfully he still keeps his site additions fairly up-to-date with his busy life. Regards, Dennice Goudie http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~goudied/ <<< barebones site Soon to be published: http://www.dgoudie-genealogy.co.uk/ _______________________________________ Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Janice,      There's always another year!  I hope the weather here continues to be nice while you're here. Peggy --- On Sat, 7/25/09, Janice Langland <callmejanice@aol.com> wrote: From: Janice Langland <callmejanice@aol.com> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Ness of Brodgar excavations To: orcadia@rootsweb.com Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 11:34 AM Oh Dear.  Sorry, I forgot to include the dates of my visit, which are  August 15 - 22.  Unfortunately, I'll miss you by three days, Peggy. Janice Langland On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Margaret Bainton wrote: > What are the dates you'll be in South Flat?  I'm in Orphir until  > Aug. 12th > Peggy > > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Janice Langland <callmejanice@aol.com> wrote: > > > From: Janice Langland <callmejanice@aol.com> > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Ness of Brodgar excavations > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 11:10 AM > > > Thanks, Sian.  One of the things I enjoy most about Orkney is the > archaeology, and this is a short walk from the house we usually rent. > The others are the bird life, art, crafts, Orcadians themselves, the > beautiful scenery that changes within seconds as the light changes, > and the food. > >   This year I'm going for only a week, not our usual long stay, so > I'll be car-free and living in Stromness.  I'm renting South Flat near > the ferry -  in case anyone on this link is interested in dropping by > for a cup of tea. > > Janice Langland > (P.S.  Tuck will not be with me this time.  He'll be in England, > singing in cathedrals while I'm in Orkney with my friend Lynda.) > > > On Jul 24, 2009, at 10:01 AM, Sian Thomas wrote: > >> The Ness of Brodgar is currently undergoing more excavation by a >> team of >> archaeologists.  There's a daily blog posted by members of the team >> via >> Sigurd's web site if anyone is interested in keeping up with what is >> going on there : http://www.orkneyjar.com/archaeology/nessofbrodgar/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> Orcadia Group Photo Album >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com >>   with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com >  with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and  > the body of the message > > > > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com >  with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and  > the body of the message _______________________________________ Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ah Royce....don't beat yerself up! I call those computer hand mistakes..."given em the finger." It is a thing that just happens, in accordance with Murphy's laws. Yer doin' a job nobody else will take on, and after all, this site is historically intermittently sleepy and often near dead, and then...a subject pops up that sparks interest from a lot of neat people. That is how it has been for years. I often dig into my mind to find a loitering question which is of Orkney root, and fire it out there, to test the water and to keep the wheel rolling. Your viking point of view proved contraversial which always becomes most interesting. I enjoy your word Drat. Wondered where it came from. I wondered if it is an abbreviation of deat rat, or a misspelling for dram!? Thesaurus says it is a euphemism for God rot. As an expression of annoyance, it also has an adjective form...dratted. Next time I get pulled over by a trafic cop, I will enquire if he is indeed....d-ratted. So there, our valued sargeant at arms, moderator and chief of this eclectic and diverse contigency of Orkney defenders, as Red Green, our probable next prime minister would say, " Well....Hopefully, if the women don't find ya handsome, they'll find ya handy. Keep yer stick on the ice. We're all in this together ya know." Take care of the Alamo.....yours aye....Stephen On Jul 26, 2009, at 1:59 PM, Royce Perry wrote: > Drat! I hate when this happens! > I owe Dennice a public apology. My reply to her post was Not > supposed to go > to the group. My sincere apology ma'am...that much was mental error > on my > part. > > She does have two valid points, about keeping subject lines updated > as the > topic in a string of posts mutates over time. It's somewhat less > critical in > a group like this than it is in the genealogy lists where other > researchers > use the subject line to search for data. But it's still good "best > practice" > on any list or group. > The other point is trimming the text that you are not replying to > from a > post. Tricky that one, because if you trim too much or all of > it...nobody > knows what you are replying about. > Yes...I am as guilty as anyone on both counts...let's all work on > that...OK > <G> > > As far as attacks on another poster's spelling, grammar, and reckless > accusations of "trolling"...those go over the line. It doesn't > matter who > they are aimed at, or by whom. They will be dealt with. > Discussion can lead to debate, which if everyone is not mature > about it, can > lead to argument. Spirited discussion is encouraged, lively debate > is good, > but letting it go past that, into argument, is bad...don't recall a > time > that this group has ever gone past the lively debate stage. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Royce Perry > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 11:36 AM > To: 'Dennice Goudie'; orcadia@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] My pet peeves > > As I am sure you expected...you are on Moderated Post until > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Drat! I hate when this happens! I owe Dennice a public apology. My reply to her post was Not supposed to go to the group. My sincere apology ma'am...that much was mental error on my part. She does have two valid points, about keeping subject lines updated as the topic in a string of posts mutates over time. It's somewhat less critical in a group like this than it is in the genealogy lists where other researchers use the subject line to search for data. But it's still good "best practice" on any list or group. The other point is trimming the text that you are not replying to from a post. Tricky that one, because if you trim too much or all of it...nobody knows what you are replying about. Yes...I am as guilty as anyone on both counts...let's all work on that...OK <G> As far as attacks on another poster's spelling, grammar, and reckless accusations of "trolling"...those go over the line. It doesn't matter who they are aimed at, or by whom. They will be dealt with. Discussion can lead to debate, which if everyone is not mature about it, can lead to argument. Spirited discussion is encouraged, lively debate is good, but letting it go past that, into argument, is bad...don't recall a time that this group has ever gone past the lively debate stage. R -----Original Message----- From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Royce Perry Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 11:36 AM To: 'Dennice Goudie'; orcadia@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] My pet peeves As I am sure you expected...you are on Moderated Post until

Is this link: Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x As someone who is a descendant of one who was christened and joined the Hudson's Bay Company at Stromness, his parents married at Evie and Rendall -- I am **extremely** curious regarding the area/street/gathering of dwellings. Would the owner of the flickr account be of a mind to change the camera numbering (?? .. e.g. CIMG0064) to a more descriptive name. Please and thank you. What can I say, I miss Sigurd's Orkneyjar links http://www.orkneyjar.com/portfolio/scenes/stromness/index.html --- thankfully he still keeps his site additions fairly up-to-date with his busy life. Regards, Dennice Goudie http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~goudied/ <<< barebones site Soon to be published: http://www.dgoudie-genealogy.co.uk/

As I am sure you expected...you are on Moderated Post until (or if) you can show that you can play nice with others. I am usually very lenient with the groups I admin...but I have no patience with trolls. And your post, as you well know, is classic trolling. Royce Admin -----Original Message----- From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dennice Goudie Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 1:10 PM To: orcadia@rootsweb.com Subject: [ORCADIA] My pet peeves Topping my pet peeve would be those who attempt to debate in written medium yet cannot spell consider or Welsh. Perhaps those of a same mind would be willing to start a yahoo group for those who are more interested in debating then presenting information or sources. Oh yeah, another peeve, is those who don't change the subject line AND delete information that isn't pertinent. I prefer to have some empathy for those who receive via digest mode. One of the lessons learned while exploring the interweb was "Do not feed the trolls" or the topic of main interest will get de-railed indefinitely while endlessly discussing "their" pet peeve. _______________________________________ Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Tuck... Obviously all those folks in Orkney who have ...er..."encountered" the burried trerasures of ancient resident viking raiders, are suspending the delivery of such things to the Scottish Hysterical Society, perhaps for a few generations, pending the planning and detailed preparations of a suitable gala handoff party. Things held onto by those lucky families are just meantime being detailed, shined up and prepared for the big backyard giveaway soiree where such valuables are freely given over in exchange for the joy of so doing, and the honour of hosting the jolly event for an appreciative and deserving government, albeit of the wrong country. In my mind, Viking valuables found in Orkney, belong more to Norwegian history than British. Ah....the world and it's riches. Seems the world has become more materialistic than ever, as the quest for wealth is perpetuated as a valid reason to live. On Jul 25, 2009, at 2:10 PM, Tuck wrote: > All, > > Just as I thought. > > Tuck > On Jul 25, 2009, at 11:41 AM, Norman Tulloch wrote: > >> Tuck wrote: >> >>> As for digging up Norse artifacts, there is yet another question >>> that >>> must be asked and answered: suppose you do find things. Who owns >>> them? >>> What do you do with them? Are they all carted off to London or >>> Edinburgh, can you sell them, can you keep them, or do they stay in >>> Orkney somehow? >>> >>> >>> Tuck >> >> Anything that is found in the UK is the property of the Crown "and >> may >> be claimed as treasure trove". The Scottish version of the Treasure >> Trove site: >> >> http://www.treasuretrovescotland.co.uk/html/finders.asp >> >> In addition, of course, metal detecting, etc on significant >> archaeological sites is very unlikely to be allowed, but with the >> right >> contacts one might be able to find a landowner who would give >> permission >> to go over his land. One certainly couldn't go on to a Historic >> Scotland >> site like the Broch of Birsay with a metal detector. From the >> Treasure >> Trove website: >> >> "Under Section 42 of the Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Areas >> Act >> (1979) it is a criminal offence to use a metal detector on a >> scheduled >> ancient monument or a monument in the guardianship of the State. >> It is >> also an offence to remove from such a monument any object of >> archaeological or historical interest found using a metal >> detector. If >> in any doubt as to whether a site is scheduled you should check with >> Historic Scotland or the landowner." >> >> Also: >> "*Illegal removal of finds from Scotland* >> Under the Dealing in Cultural Objects (Offences) Act 2003, it is a >> criminal offence to remove any coin or object from Scotland, see >> http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/20030027.htm" >> >> Metal detectorists are often unpopular with archaeologists because of >> the damage they can do to sites. >> >> Norman T. >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> Orcadia Group Photo Album >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- >> request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Tuck wrote: > As for digging up Norse artifacts, there is yet another question that > must be asked and answered: suppose you do find things. Who owns them? > What do you do with them? Are they all carted off to London or > Edinburgh, can you sell them, can you keep them, or do they stay in > Orkney somehow? > > > Tuck Anything that is found in the UK is the property of the Crown "and may be claimed as treasure trove". The Scottish version of the Treasure Trove site: http://www.treasuretrovescotland.co.uk/html/finders.asp In addition, of course, metal detecting, etc on significant archaeological sites is very unlikely to be allowed, but with the right contacts one might be able to find a landowner who would give permission to go over his land. One certainly couldn't go on to a Historic Scotland site like the Broch of Birsay with a metal detector. From the Treasure Trove website: "Under Section 42 of the Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Areas Act (1979) it is a criminal offence to use a metal detector on a scheduled ancient monument or a monument in the guardianship of the State. It is also an offence to remove from such a monument any object of archaeological or historical interest found using a metal detector. If in any doubt as to whether a site is scheduled you should check with Historic Scotland or the landowner." Also: "*Illegal removal of finds from Scotland* Under the Dealing in Cultural Objects (Offences) Act 2003, it is a criminal offence to remove any coin or object from Scotland, see http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/20030027.htm" Metal detectorists are often unpopular with archaeologists because of the damage they can do to sites. Norman T.

Linda Rice wrote: > > But getting back to the original posting... yes, I'm quite keen to see what > gets dug up anywhere on Orkney that is Viking. If a person who was very > interested in learning more about Vikings in Orkney wanted to plan a visit > someday, where would the best 'must see' places be? Is there a museum or > have all the best artifacts been carted off to London or someplace? > > Thanks! > > ::Linda:: Tankerness House Museum in Kirkwall: http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/kirkwall/orkneymuseum/index.html The Brough of Birsay: http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/westmainland/broughofbirsay/index.html St Magnus Cathedral, of course, and Orphir Church: http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/westmainland/orphirchurch/index.html There must be a fair amount of Viking stuff at the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh, but I haven't been there for a very long time, and the British Museum in London is bound to have a lot too, from various parts of the UK. Norman T.

Well said, Nan. Janice On Jul 25, 2009, at 11:37 AM, Nan Fowler wrote: > Sometimes I think it best if artefacts were dug up, looked at, > photographed, > pondered over, and then reburied whence they came. I am not fond of > collectors/collections. Case after case of items taken from it > earthly > resting place and stored out of its long term realm for people to > gawk at, > or worse make money from. The bones and "bones" of ancestors, given > the > general name "artefacts" and lined up in glass cases and drawers in > museums > or in living or trophy rooms, not just a single item like an arrowhead > ploughed up in the garden or a single piece of coin or crockery washed > ashore and found on a walk on a beach, but modern day plunder. > Maybe the > Earth has/is given dominion once something is buried and the > original owner > or "lifter' long gone, in this case to act as care taker to such > things > buried for what ever reason. Just a wish, though I suppose not > practical or > fair in our modern world where ownership of land and goods is so > important. > Nan > > On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:04 AM, <orcadia-request@rootsweb.com> > wrote: > >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes (Royce Perry) >> 2. Re: Orkney Viking Hordes (Tuck) >> 3. Re: Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes (Linda Rice) >> 4. Re: Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes (Norman Tulloch) >> 5. Re: Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes (Tuck) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:15:30 -0500 >> From: "Royce Perry" <perryroyce@hotmail.com> >> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes >> To: <orcadia@rootsweb.com> >> Message-ID: <BAY131-DS4818CBA8DC92BB3BE547DC1160@phx.gbl> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> For reference, my use of the term Norse in historical discussions >> IS to the >> Old Norse speaking people of Scandinavia, not just the ones that >> came from >> the geographic location now called Norway. >> R >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com >> ] >> On >> Behalf Of Norman Tulloch >> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:59 AM >> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes >> >> Just as a matter of interest, here's part of a Wikipedia article on >> "Viking": >> _______________________________________________________________________ >> >> *Etymology* >> >> In Old Norse, the word is spelled v?kingr. The word appears on >> several >> rune stones found in Scandinavia. In the Icelanders' sagas, v?king >> refers to an overseas expedition (Old Norse fara ? v?king "to go on >> an >> expedition"), and v?kingr, to a seaman or warrior taking part in >> such an >> expedition. >> >> In Old English, the word wicing appears first in the Anglo-Saxon >> poem, >> "Widsith", which probably dates from the 9th century. In Old English, >> and in the writings of Adam von Bremen, the term refers to a >> pirate, and >> is not a name for a people or a culture in general. Regardless of its >> possible origins, the word was used more as a verb than as a noun, >> and >> connoted an activity and not a distinct group of individuals. To "go >> Viking" was distinctly different from Norse seaborne missions of >> trade >> and commerce. >> >> The word disappeared in Middle English, and was reintroduced as >> Viking >> during 18th century Romanticism (the "Viking revival"), with heroic >> overtones of "barbarian warrior" or noble savage. >> >> During the 20th century, the meaning of the term was expanded to >> refer >> not only to the raiders, but also to the entire period; it is now, >> somewhat confusingly, used as a noun both in the original meaning of >> raiders, warriors or navigators, and to refer to the Scandinavian >> population in general. As an adjective, the word is used in >> expressions >> like "Viking age", "Viking culture", "Viking colony", etc., generally >> referring to medieval Scandinavia. The pre-Christian Scandinavian >> population is also referred to as Norse, although that term is >> properly >> applied to the whole civilization of Old-Norse-speaking people. In >> current Scandinavian languages, the term Viking is applied to the >> people >> who went away on Viking expeditions, be it for raiding or trading. >> >> _______________________________________________________________________ >> >> OK, I know Wikipedia articles sometimes need to be treated with >> caution, >> but if that article is correct, Viking/viking seems to have been used >> largely as a noun and an adjective since the 18th century and the >> verb >> usage seems to have pretty much disappeared. >> >> In fact, if the first paragraph that I've quoted is correct, even >> in the >> Icelandic sagas the word "viking" was a noun, meaning "an overseas >> expedition", with "vikingr" referring to one who took part in such an >> expedition. >> >> Norman T. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> Orcadia Group Photo Album >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:10:29 -0400 >> From: Tuck <tuck12@comcast.net> >> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: <BCA41B3B-F95F-46FF-9F9A-DD8C905997FB@comcast.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes >> >> All, >> >> Ah, history. And just what is that? The famous quote says history is >> written by the winners, and there is truth to that, but how much >> truth >> is there to history? >> >> OK, so much of history as we know it is skewed and, often, little >> more >> than propaganda, yet where would we be without it? When one thinks >> back on, say, the history of England, one thinks almost immediately >> of >> the list of kings marching along, and everything else seems to slot >> into that. So the Tudor period, the Restoration, the Victorian age >> and >> so on all take their place on the grid of royal succession. The same >> is pretty well true everywhere else, with the French kings, the >> Chinese, the Inca and so on. And of course that's only a small part >> of >> the story, but no one writes down how Mrs. Doobiddle did the laundry >> on the Monday in 1465. >> >> However, the very notion of history is undergoing deep changes. Today >> historians refer to many kinds of history. Kings and Battles refers >> to >> what was generally taught us when we were in school. But there is >> Social History, Gender History, Economic History, Art History, >> Histories of Science, Technology, Medicine, and on and on. More and >> more historians are looking at things other than kings and battles >> and >> actually concerning themselves a bit with Mrs. Doobiddle and her >> laundry. Indeed I would wager someone, somewhere, is studying the >> history of laundry. Why did only women do the washing? What were the >> technologies of laundry at various times? Why in hell did Victorian >> women, walking streets covered with horse droppings, and having no >> modern washing machines, insist on dragging those long dresses >> through >> the muck? Why did Rosa Bonheur, the mid 19th century French sculptor, >> need permission from the police to wear trousers as she hung out in >> the corrals? >> >> My daughter is an historian, and her subject is the student revolts >> against the military crackdown in Brazil in the 1960s and 70s. Such >> things (student reactions to events) have, until the last few >> decades, >> been largely overlooked by historians. Perhaps further research will >> tell us a whole lot more about those curious creatures we call >> vikings, and exactly what they did, and did not, do. >> >> As for that pesky term Viking, it does seem, from this discussion, >> that the word has early origins, rather different from those used to >> day, but that it underwent a refurbishing in the 18th and 19th >> centuries, just as the whole notion of Christmas did, especially in >> the England of the 19th century, Dickens and all that. >> So perhaps, for purposes of discussion here, we can agree that viking >> is a noun describing a certain kind of activity carried out by a >> small >> percentage of the population of certain northern countries during a >> relatively narrow period of history. >> >> But those helmets with horns on sure are cool looking! >> >> >> Tuck >> On Jul 25, 2009, at 7:58 AM, Royce Perry wrote: >> >>> Shame on you Stephen....attribute your sources...and if it was >>> published >>> later than the mid 1200s it wouldn't support your position anyway. >>> >>> A point to conceder, almost everything we think we know about >>> history is >>> based on a very tiny part of the population. (This is true for >>> nearly all >>> history of any people anywhere and any when) The only things that >>> survive >>> are the activities of the nobles, leaders, poets, warriors, priests, >>> bishops, shamans. People of prominence. We know almost nothing about >>> the 99% >>> that just got through life as best they could. The Sagas are >>> particularly >>> tricky because they are actually long epic praise poems about the >>> doings of >>> the warrior elite. And they were composed by the PR department...the >>> skalds. >>> They have a lot of factual history in them, but it's hard to tease >>> out from >>> the flack. Think in terms of a rock star's biography written by his >>> press >>> agent. Also they were originally oral, and only written down much >>> later...by >>> Christian monks. So how much did they "correct" the original >>> material? We >>> have the same problem with a lot of the very early Irish and Welch >>> material. >>> My issue with using the term "Viking" is that it has been >>> Hollywooded into a >>> stereotype for the whole Scandinavian culture of the time, when in >>> fact was >>> probably typical of only 1-2% of the population. Sort of like saying >>> that >>> the only people that lived in Medieval times were knights, nobles, >>> kings, >>> and clergy. >>> R >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com >>> ] On >>> Behalf Of stephen davie >>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:32 PM >>> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >>> >>> Beg to differ.... >>> >>> viking...noun...any of the Scandinavian seafaring pirates or traders >>> who raided in many of the parts of north western Europe in the 8-11 >>> centuries. >>> >>> viking...the adjective...of or relating to vikings or the period in >>> which they lived >>> >>> OK, I agree that it is a bad handle, especially perhaps for the more >>> sensitive of us who indeed are descended from Norse forbears who >>> happened in many Orcadian cases, to be indeed Vikings. I had a touch >>> of the woozies in reading the details of some of the sagas and other >>> historic works, but I never got to chose myh parents, and I guess I >>> am who I am, descended on the side of my father from Kolbein Hruga >>> and the Thorfins, many of whom fell into that big V category. >>> Combine >>> those Viking roots with the north american native content, and it is >>> indeed perplexing if not overwhelming. >>> >>> One thing we learned here in Canada with the battle on the Plains of >>> Abraham, where Montcalm fell to Wolf, in as much as some people try, >>> ya can't change history. >>> >>> Cheers.....Stephen >>> >>> >>> On Jul 24, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Royce Perry wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it >>>> was a verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! >>>> >>>> R the Picky >>>> >>>>> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >>>>> From: stephen.davie@sympatico.ca >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:53:06 -0400 >>>>> Subject: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >>>>> >>>>> I was reading today on the www, that a father and son team , in >>>>> July >>>>> of 2007, unearthed a viking horde in England which was claimed >>>>> to be >>>>> worth a million pounds by some erudite evaluator. My propensity >>>>> for >>>>> speculation and romance kicks in again, as I recall the >>>>> fascinating >>>>> books of viking lore of the Orkneys, and I can't help but think >>>>> that >>>>> some day, some eager body in Orkney is going to unearth, perhaps >>>>> by >>>>> accident, an accumulation of sivler coins and jewelry, carefully >>>>> concealed in the arms and safe keep of mother earth, by the viking >>>>> who left by the sea on yet another summer raid perhaps, which >>>>> fellow >>>>> due to some dramatic and fatal event, never was to return to >>>>> Orkney >>>>> to unearth and retreave his stash of previously plundered and >>>>> horded >>>>> possessions. >>>>> >>>>> Surely I am not the sole keeper of this plausible dream. Indeed, >>>>> on >>>>> behalf of all the vikings who lived on Orkney...."Where is the >>>>> "stuff" our forbears lusted after for all those centuries, when we >>>>> raided the shores of Scotland, England and Ireland? >>>>> >>>>> Two years ago I acquired an underwater metal detector which is >>>>> discriminatory by type of metal. It has not been out of the case, >>>>> but >>>>> this summer we are going to take it to our near north, to >>>>> examine an >>>>> old wreck which a very senior citizen visited in the 1930's, and >>>>> from >>>>> which he just received a cannon ball. The conjecture is that the >>>>> boat >>>>> would not have carried cannon balls, without a cannon. We assume >>>>> the >>>>> cannon will be brass, as the portage factor made slugging iron >>>>> cannons across portages practically impossible. >>>>> >>>>> I maintain that Vikings would not embark on viking expeditions, >>>>> without returning with the components of typical hordes. Based on >>>>> the >>>>> population, and the numerous excursions outlined in the sagas >>>>> alone, >>>>> there is logic to the view, which will be solidified the day >>>>> someone >>>>> trips over such a discovery. Obviously it is likely that many >>>>> buried >>>>> treasures there are in the "abeyence" file as to the required >>>>> reporting to the government. >>>>> >>>>> Which begs the question....how many in Orkney have metal >>>>> detectors? I >>>>> suppose in light of the covetous albeit appropriate claims by >>>>> historical authorities in Scotland to any artifiacts exhumed, that >>>>> people are disinclined to bother, to some extent. When Mel Fisher >>>>> discovered the Atocha, the sabres rattled over rights and >>>>> ownership >>>>> issues, for many years in many courts. When my friend Tracy Bowden >>>>> exhumed th esilver banks wreck, concepcion (1642) he entertained >>>>> armed security from the Dominican Republic on his boat for a >>>>> decade, >>>>> ensuring that their 50% made it to the museum in Porta Plata. >>>>> >>>>> In particular, it seems that Vikings were bead lovers, and one >>>>> would >>>>> think that in burial areas and amaongst old ruins, the beads which >>>>> are durable, would surface on a somewhat regular basis. You might >>>>> google viking beads, or Dr. Dan Carlsson, who is the acknowledged >>>>> expert on the subject. I wrote to him once, and he is a very >>>>> interesting and obviouosly expert historian. IN researching for >>>>> the >>>>> book project, I discovered that authors in Scotland interested in >>>>> Orkney, would travel to Norway to fill in the blanks where >>>>> Scottish >>>>> notes were thin in some centuries. >>>>> >>>>> The absence of viking possessions in Orkney is redolent of an >>>>> ongoing >>>>> mystery, considering that their culture flourished for centuries >>>>> in >>>>> Orkney, and the object of their lusty voyages, was in large part, >>>>> material valuables which would have returned to Orkney and been >>>>> deposited in their private earthy banks. >>>>> >>>>> Looking forward to my trip over to Orkney and Norway in September. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers all....stephen >>>>> _______________________________________ >>>>> Orcadia Group Photo Album >>>>> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- >>>>> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> _______________________________________ >>>> Orcadia Group Photo Album >>>> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- >>>> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >>>> in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________ >>> Orcadia Group Photo Album >>> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> _______________________________________ >>> Orcadia Group Photo Album >>> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>> the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:30:49 -0400 >> From: "Linda Rice" <vmaa2@cox.net> >> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes >> To: <orcadia@rootsweb.com> >> Message-ID: <4A4682B1FDB94F5E9F15303CAFD92B6A@VMAA1> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> The beginning of the so-called "Viking Age" is generally accepted >> by most >> scholars to be the raid at Lindisfarne in 793. The culture had its >> heyday >> in >> the 9th and 10th centuries, with the Battle of Stamford Bridge >> (Vikings vs >> Anglo-Saxons) and then the Battle of Hastings (Anglo-Saxons vs >> Normans) in >> 1066 most usually considered to be the "end" of the age. However it >> is also >> worth noting that many consider the Battle of Largs (Scotland) in >> 1263 to >> be >> the ultimate final skirmish initiated by Vikings. It wasn't a big >> battle >> and >> had little historic impact, so it's pretty much been lost in the >> dust, so >> to >> speak. >> >> "Vikings" had a good run for about 250+ years. It is worth noting >> that the >> Normans who won at Hastings were in fact of Norse descent. "Norman" >> means >> North Man, the region of France from whence they came was settled >> by Norse. >> >> But getting back to the original posting... yes, I'm quite keen to >> see what >> gets dug up anywhere on Orkney that is Viking. If a person who was >> very >> interested in learning more about Vikings in Orkney wanted to plan >> a visit >> someday, where would the best 'must see' places be? Is there a >> museum or >> have all the best artifacts been carted off to London or someplace? >> >> Thanks! >> >> ::Linda:: >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> On Behalf Of Royce Perry >> >> Remember, the >> time frame we are talking about only lasted from the mid 800's >> until the >> late 900s early 1000s. Little more than 150 years. >> R >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 15:59:40 +0100 >> From: Norman Tulloch <norman@nwtulloch.vispa.com> >> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes >> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: <4A6B1DDC.7030309@nwtulloch.vispa.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Linda Rice wrote: >>> >>> But getting back to the original posting... yes, I'm quite keen to >>> see >> what >>> gets dug up anywhere on Orkney that is Viking. If a person who >>> was very >>> interested in learning more about Vikings in Orkney wanted to plan a >> visit >>> someday, where would the best 'must see' places be? Is there a >>> museum or >>> have all the best artifacts been carted off to London or someplace? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> ::Linda:: >> >> Tankerness House Museum in Kirkwall: >> http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/kirkwall/orkneymuseum/ >> index.html >> >> The Brough of Birsay: >> >> http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/westmainland/broughofbirsay/index.html >> >> St Magnus Cathedral, of course, and Orphir Church: >> http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/westmainland/orphirchurch/index.html >> >> There must be a fair amount of Viking stuff at the National Museum of >> Scotland in Edinburgh, but I haven't been there for a very long time, >> and the British Museum in London is bound to have a lot too, from >> various parts of the UK. >> >> Norman T. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 11:16:30 -0400 >> From: Tuck <tuck12@comcast.net> >> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes >> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: <FE62D8B6-9F3F-47BD-8171-983BE7302FC0@comcast.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes >> >> All, >> >> Normandy is called that because in the year 911 (auspicious number?) >> the king of France, tired or Norse raids into the French interior >> with >> their shallow draft boats, told the Norse he wold give them a chunk >> of >> France if they wold stop raiding. He did, they did, and it is called >> Normandy after their Northern origins. >> >> As for digging up Norse artifacts, there is yet another question that >> must be asked and answered: suppose you do find things. Who owns >> them? >> What do you do with them? Are they all carted off to London or >> Edinburgh, can you sell them, can you keep them, or do they stay in >> Orkney somehow? >> >> >> Tuck >> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:30 AM, Linda Rice wrote: >> >>> The beginning of the so-called "Viking Age" is generally accepted by >>> most >>> scholars to be the raid at Lindisfarne in 793. The culture had its >>> heyday in >>> the 9th and 10th centuries, with the Battle of Stamford Bridge >>> (Vikings vs >>> Anglo-Saxons) and then the Battle of Hastings (Anglo-Saxons vs >>> Normans) in >>> 1066 most usually considered to be the "end" of the age. However it >>> is also >>> worth noting that many consider the Battle of Largs (Scotland) in >>> 1263 to be >>> the ultimate final skirmish initiated by Vikings. It wasn't a big >>> battle and >>> had little historic impact, so it's pretty much been lost in the >>> dust, so to >>> speak. >>> >>> "Vikings" had a good run for about 250+ years. It is worth noting >>> that the >>> Normans who won at Hastings were in fact of Norse descent. "Norman" >>> means >>> North Man, the region of France from whence they came was settled by >>> Norse. >>> >>> But getting back to the original posting... yes, I'm quite keen to >>> see what >>> gets dug up anywhere on Orkney that is Viking. If a person who was >>> very >>> interested in learning more about Vikings in Orkney wanted to plan a >>> visit >>> someday, where would the best 'must see' places be? Is there a >>> museum or >>> have all the best artifacts been carted off to London or someplace? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> ::Linda:: >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> On Behalf Of Royce Perry >>> >>> Remember, the >>> time frame we are talking about only lasted from the mid 800's until >>> the >>> late 900s early 1000s. Little more than 150 years. >>> R >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________ >>> Orcadia Group Photo Album >>> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>> the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> >> End of ORCADIA Digest, Vol 2, Issue 54 >> ************************************** >> > > > > -- > Nan Fowler > Adult Education Program > Department of Lifelong Education, Administration, and Policy > River's Crossing, 4th Floor > 850 College Station Road > University of Georgia > Athens, GA USA 30602 > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

All, Just as I thought. Tuck On Jul 25, 2009, at 11:41 AM, Norman Tulloch wrote: > Tuck wrote: > >> As for digging up Norse artifacts, there is yet another question that >> must be asked and answered: suppose you do find things. Who owns >> them? >> What do you do with them? Are they all carted off to London or >> Edinburgh, can you sell them, can you keep them, or do they stay in >> Orkney somehow? >> >> >> Tuck > > Anything that is found in the UK is the property of the Crown "and may > be claimed as treasure trove". The Scottish version of the Treasure > Trove site: > > http://www.treasuretrovescotland.co.uk/html/finders.asp > > In addition, of course, metal detecting, etc on significant > archaeological sites is very unlikely to be allowed, but with the > right > contacts one might be able to find a landowner who would give > permission > to go over his land. One certainly couldn't go on to a Historic > Scotland > site like the Broch of Birsay with a metal detector. From the Treasure > Trove website: > > "Under Section 42 of the Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Areas > Act > (1979) it is a criminal offence to use a metal detector on a scheduled > ancient monument or a monument in the guardianship of the State. It is > also an offence to remove from such a monument any object of > archaeological or historical interest found using a metal detector. If > in any doubt as to whether a site is scheduled you should check with > Historic Scotland or the landowner." > > Also: > "*Illegal removal of finds from Scotland* > Under the Dealing in Cultural Objects (Offences) Act 2003, it is a > criminal offence to remove any coin or object from Scotland, see > http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/20030027.htm" > > Metal detectorists are often unpopular with archaeologists because of > the damage they can do to sites. > > Norman T. > > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Just as a matter of interest, here's part of a Wikipedia article on "Viking": _______________________________________________________________________ *Etymology* In Old Norse, the word is spelled víkingr. The word appears on several rune stones found in Scandinavia. In the Icelanders' sagas, víking refers to an overseas expedition (Old Norse fara í víking "to go on an expedition"), and víkingr, to a seaman or warrior taking part in such an expedition. In Old English, the word wicing appears first in the Anglo-Saxon poem, "Widsith", which probably dates from the 9th century. In Old English, and in the writings of Adam von Bremen, the term refers to a pirate, and is not a name for a people or a culture in general. Regardless of its possible origins, the word was used more as a verb than as a noun, and connoted an activity and not a distinct group of individuals. To "go Viking" was distinctly different from Norse seaborne missions of trade and commerce. The word disappeared in Middle English, and was reintroduced as Viking during 18th century Romanticism (the "Viking revival"), with heroic overtones of "barbarian warrior" or noble savage. During the 20th century, the meaning of the term was expanded to refer not only to the raiders, but also to the entire period; it is now, somewhat confusingly, used as a noun both in the original meaning of raiders, warriors or navigators, and to refer to the Scandinavian population in general. As an adjective, the word is used in expressions like "Viking age", "Viking culture", "Viking colony", etc., generally referring to medieval Scandinavia. The pre-Christian Scandinavian population is also referred to as Norse, although that term is properly applied to the whole civilization of Old-Norse-speaking people. In current Scandinavian languages, the term Viking is applied to the people who went away on Viking expeditions, be it for raiding or trading. _______________________________________________________________________ OK, I know Wikipedia articles sometimes need to be treated with caution, but if that article is correct, Viking/viking seems to have been used largely as a noun and an adjective since the 18th century and the verb usage seems to have pretty much disappeared. In fact, if the first paragraph that I've quoted is correct, even in the Icelandic sagas the word "viking" was a noun, meaning "an overseas expedition", with "vikingr" referring to one who took part in such an expedition. Norman T.

Well, the "hollywooded" state, is of los estados unidos, is an american concept, but indeed all that I have read of Orkney, precedes the epic arrival of the cursed idiot box era. We Canuks have a more European and somewhat different perspective on things, than our smaller but vastly more populous neighbor to the south, possible due to our material depravity and preserved practical rural mindset. Canada is still overwhelmed by things natural, and outside the cities, values and approaches are still traditional. I read as much as the average Canadian, no more no less, and somehow it seems for us a more valid and nutritious form of brain cereal than the tube. However in some instances, like documentaries and discovery and subtitled spanish language movies, the tube is great and of real comfort. I also love Julia Roberts and Jaylo and the big ever-living dead guy, John Wayne. Mindya our Canadian hollywooders hit the top....John Candy, Donald Southerland, Shania Twain and Celin Dion, And Paul what's his name (Schaefer maybe) of David Letterman. I paid considerable dollars for a couple of the sagas, Orkneyinga being one, in the first translation into english. It arrived from Holland, with a crippled spine, faded brown leather and a few blemishes, but for a thing over a hundred years old, I must say I was impressed. The extended family trees in the centre are a joy, as they reflect my own heritage, and it is repeatedly written that our Bjarni the Bishop was indeed one of the authors of Orkneyinga. He was a scald, but as a man involved with the Church I feel he was in a position to be realistic about what he wrote, and as perhaps a moral as well as an obviously clever person, he would I think, gain nothing by wasting his time writing some sort of mystical distortion account. His life in the real at the time was so well deserved of an accurate account that there was no point in a twist here or a stretch there. As an example of his integrity, the family lands he inherited in Dalsfjord near Dale, were given before his death, to a Monastery, as a gift. Thus as a Bishop and as a generous person, albeit a trader, I tend to read the things he and his pals wrote as being more accurate than not. Indeed to warp in any way the accounts of the various expeditions, may have at the time had some serious personal ramifications. I do not indeed know that much of all this, as a student of these times, and not a great one. I do know for certain of my family's deep Orkney Viking roots, and virtually nothing of this overall Scandinavian population whom you claim produced only about "1 or 2 percent" as "vikings." I have a long way to go in better understanding my viking roots, and my children and grandchildren will continue the practice when I am gone. Insofar as Norway's history goes, I would suggest that the percentages of resident raiders could have been higher in respects of Norwegian Orkney, based on the profile of those who came to Orkney and their initial motivations or reasons. These were people who indeed did raid often, and in some cases those who hid out in the islands sometimes, to avoid clashes with people wanting to settle scores for nasty incidents in Norway. Even the kings of that country routinely took their youngsters on viking expeditions (hence the noun). I recall the king who arrived in Orkney, and upon taking the jarl of the time, a Thorfin, aboard his boat with his son or grandson, the king suggested converting to Christianity would be a nice thing, and to prove his point, he said that if the jarl did not immediately agree, then he would cut the boy's throat and burn every structure standing on the islands. Orkney's viking population had to be in excess of that 1 and 2 percent you suggest. Too, the numbers who manned each fighting ship, were not insignificant. Organizing the assembly of men on such ships, seemed not to be a voluntary thing, in many cases. How could you refuse the call to action without repercussions? St. Magnus was perhaps the most high profile example of one who rejected the plundering, and he jumped ship in Scotland to avoid being killed by the less-than- impressed kingly sort with whom he sailed. I think that when you were called, you obeyed. You are right about Hollywood in my northern opinion, and as an extension of that distorted hype and marketing style of abject promotional bombardment, virtual politics in so-called democracies we all know are intentionally distorted and the truths manipulated to achieve election and power control goals. This we all concede, is funded by those who love and power and money more than people. The upheavel in latin american countries and the rejection of that sort of intentional assault on the free mind to achieve political success, is the basis of repeated revolutionary attempts, in countries where the exploited people are fed up with being manipulated and cheated , so they in desperation hit the streets in very messy clashes, from homes where most don't own a tv, but they surely reject the notion of the Hollywood approach to life, politics, and distorted democracy. Today it's Honduras. Will we ever know the truth behind that takeover? I think Daniel Ortega has it right. Those old Orkney days recorded by the scalds, at least were real. The politics of the day were abrupt, harsh and violent, but honest in a perplexing sort of way. People didn't tippy toe around how they felt when they were deceived or cheated. Things were resolved mano a mano, cara a cara. In truth, with respect, the Scalds who wrote the icelandic sagas, pre-empted the Hollywood disease which you so accurately describe and underline. I must admit, until I saw some of the realistic examples of viking headgear, I must admit I liked the California one with the cow horn implants upturned to the night sky, the silvery metal shining under the stars as the actors snuck ashore past the film crews and upon a dramatic beach, lead by Ronald Reagan or a yesteryear Clint Eastwood. Who'd a thought the likes of Hollywood's Ronnie would be the guy to launch an attack of Momar Kadafi's sleeping family, wounding two of his sons aged about four and five, and atomizing his baby daughter in the process? Thus, when people squirm at the word Viking and reflect on the raids, what has changed? Who was the Viking in the night raid on Libya, Reagan or the pilots who took over 100 innocent lives? So in truth, I find the rejection of the word viking, sort-of unrealistic as it relates to Orkney. I for one don't believe that Orcadian viking people were in any way contrived, and their lives in large part were subject to extremely harsh occurrences, consistent with those who lived along side of or were of the families of men, the countless men, who filled those graceful boats with their neat rows of men and oars. There are countless books written from Norway and Sweden on the Viking theme, and I hope to read more of them. Your final point on "kings, nobles, kings and clergy" is somewhat confusing, because each boat had one or two of those gentry type fellows. The men on the fifty or sixty oars with their swords at the ready, were not of those lofty roots. They left behind their crofts in Finstown or Rousay or Wyre to heed the call. The ratio between nobles or dignitaries on those raids, to ordinary men, was perhaps something like 30 to one. So, to the modern day resident scalds of Orkney, tell us please, in your valued opinions, what percentage of able bodied men between twenty and forty five, living in Orkney in 900 ad, would have participated in Viking raids, or in viking if you prefer the noun? Stephen > Shame on you Stephen....attribute your sources...and if it was > published > later than the mid 1200s it wouldn't support your position anyway. > > A point to conceder, almost everything we think we know about > history is > based on a very tiny part of the population. (This is true for > nearly all > history of any people anywhere and any when) The only things that > survive > are the activities of the nobles, leaders, poets, warriors, priests, > bishops, shamans. People of prominence. We know almost nothing > about the 99% > that just got through life as best they could. The Sagas are > particularly > tricky because they are actually long epic praise poems about the > doings of > the warrior elite. And they were composed by the PR > department...the skalds. > They have a lot of factual history in them, but it's hard to tease > out from > the flack. Think in terms of a rock star's biography written by his > press > agent. Also they were originally oral, and only written down much > later...by > Christian monks. So how much did they "correct" the original > material? We > have the same problem with a lot of the very early Irish and Welch > material. > My issue with using the term "Viking" is that it has been > Hollywooded into a > stereotype for the whole Scandinavian culture of the time, when in > fact was > probably typical of only 1-2% of the population. Sort of like > saying that > the only people that lived in Medieval times were knights, nobles, > kings, > and clergy. > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of stephen davie > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:32 PM > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes > > Beg to differ.... > > viking...noun...any of the Scandinavian seafaring pirates or traders > who raided in many of the parts of north western Europe in the 8-11 > centuries. > > viking...the adjective...of or relating to vikings or the period in > which they lived > > OK, I agree that it is a bad handle, especially perhaps for the more > sensitive of us who indeed are descended from Norse forbears who > happened in many Orcadian cases, to be indeed Vikings. I had a touch > of the woozies in reading the details of some of the sagas and other > historic works, but I never got to chose myh parents, and I guess I > am who I am, descended on the side of my father from Kolbein Hruga > and the Thorfins, many of whom fell into that big V category. Combine > those Viking roots with the north american native content, and it is > indeed perplexing if not overwhelming. > > One thing we learned here in Canada with the battle on the Plains of > Abraham, where Montcalm fell to Wolf, in as much as some people try, > ya can't change history. > > Cheers.....Stephen > > > On Jul 24, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Royce Perry wrote: > >> >> GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it >> was a verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! >> >> R the Picky >> >>> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com >>> From: stephen.davie@sympatico.ca >>> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:53:06 -0400 >>> Subject: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes >>> >>> I was reading today on the www, that a father and son team , in July >>> of 2007, unearthed a viking horde in England which was claimed to be >>> worth a million pounds by some erudite evaluator. My propensity for >>> speculation and romance kicks in again, as I recall the fascinating >>> books of viking lore of the Orkneys, and I can't help but think that >>> some day, some eager body in Orkney is going to unearth, perhaps by >>> accident, an accumulation of sivler coins and jewelry, carefully >>> concealed in the arms and safe keep of mother earth, by the viking >>> who left by the sea on yet another summer raid perhaps, which fellow >>> due to some dramatic and fatal event, never was to return to Orkney >>> to unearth and retreave his stash of previously plundered and horded >>> possessions. >>> >>> Surely I am not the sole keeper of this plausible dream. Indeed, on >>> behalf of all the vikings who lived on Orkney...."Where is the >>> "stuff" our forbears lusted after for all those centuries, when we >>> raided the shores of Scotland, England and Ireland? >>> >>> Two years ago I acquired an underwater metal detector which is >>> discriminatory by type of metal. It has not been out of the case, >>> but >>> this summer we are going to take it to our near north, to examine an >>> old wreck which a very senior citizen visited in the 1930's, and >>> from >>> which he just received a cannon ball. The conjecture is that the >>> boat >>> would not have carried cannon balls, without a cannon. We assume the >>> cannon will be brass, as the portage factor made slugging iron >>> cannons across portages practically impossible. >>> >>> I maintain that Vikings would not embark on viking expeditions, >>> without returning with the components of typical hordes. Based on >>> the >>> population, and the numerous excursions outlined in the sagas alone, >>> there is logic to the view, which will be solidified the day someone >>> trips over such a discovery. Obviously it is likely that many buried >>> treasures there are in the "abeyence" file as to the required >>> reporting to the government. >>> >>> Which begs the question....how many in Orkney have metal >>> detectors? I >>> suppose in light of the covetous albeit appropriate claims by >>> historical authorities in Scotland to any artifiacts exhumed, that >>> people are disinclined to bother, to some extent. When Mel Fisher >>> discovered the Atocha, the sabres rattled over rights and ownership >>> issues, for many years in many courts. When my friend Tracy Bowden >>> exhumed th esilver banks wreck, concepcion (1642) he entertained >>> armed security from the Dominican Republic on his boat for a decade, >>> ensuring that their 50% made it to the museum in Porta Plata. >>> >>> In particular, it seems that Vikings were bead lovers, and one would >>> think that in burial areas and amaongst old ruins, the beads which >>> are durable, would surface on a somewhat regular basis. You might >>> google viking beads, or Dr. Dan Carlsson, who is the acknowledged >>> expert on the subject. I wrote to him once, and he is a very >>> interesting and obviouosly expert historian. IN researching for the >>> book project, I discovered that authors in Scotland interested in >>> Orkney, would travel to Norway to fill in the blanks where Scottish >>> notes were thin in some centuries. >>> >>> The absence of viking possessions in Orkney is redolent of an >>> ongoing >>> mystery, considering that their culture flourished for centuries in >>> Orkney, and the object of their lusty voyages, was in large part, >>> material valuables which would have returned to Orkney and been >>> deposited in their private earthy banks. >>> >>> Looking forward to my trip over to Orkney and Norway in September. >>> >>> Cheers all....stephen >>> _______________________________________ >>> Orcadia Group Photo Album >>> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- >>> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> _______________________________________ >> Orcadia Group Photo Album >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you, Norman. I'll file this for future reference. This year's holidays are already booked up, but Orkney is definitely in the near-future plans. :) (Near meaning 2-3 years) Good museums often have their best holdings online these days, so it's not too hard to find out where things are. But that's no substitute for actually standing nose to glass in front of them! ::Linda:: On Behalf Of Norman Tulloch Tankerness House Museum in Kirkwall: http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/kirkwall/orkneymuseum/index.html The Brough of Birsay: http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/westmainland/broughofbirsay/index.html St Magnus Cathedral, of course, and Orphir Church: http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/westmainland/orphirchurch/index.html There must be a fair amount of Viking stuff at the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh, but I haven't been there for a very long time, and the British Museum in London is bound to have a lot too, from various parts of the UK. Norman T. _______________________________________ Orcadia Group Photo Album http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sometimes I think it best if artefacts were dug up, looked at, photographed, pondered over, and then reburied whence they came. I am not fond of collectors/collections. Case after case of items taken from it earthly resting place and stored out of its long term realm for people to gawk at, or worse make money from. The bones and "bones" of ancestors, given the general name "artefacts" and lined up in glass cases and drawers in museums or in living or trophy rooms, not just a single item like an arrowhead ploughed up in the garden or a single piece of coin or crockery washed ashore and found on a walk on a beach, but modern day plunder. Maybe the Earth has/is given dominion once something is buried and the original owner or "lifter' long gone, in this case to act as care taker to such things buried for what ever reason. Just a wish, though I suppose not practical or fair in our modern world where ownership of land and goods is so important. Nan On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:04 AM, <orcadia-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes (Royce Perry) > 2. Re: Orkney Viking Hordes (Tuck) > 3. Re: Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes (Linda Rice) > 4. Re: Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes (Norman Tulloch) > 5. Re: Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes (Tuck) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:15:30 -0500 > From: "Royce Perry" <perryroyce@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes > To: <orcadia@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <BAY131-DS4818CBA8DC92BB3BE547DC1160@phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > For reference, my use of the term Norse in historical discussions IS to the > Old Norse speaking people of Scandinavia, not just the ones that came from > the geographic location now called Norway. > R > > -----Original Message----- > From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On > Behalf Of Norman Tulloch > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:59 AM > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes > > Just as a matter of interest, here's part of a Wikipedia article on > "Viking": > _______________________________________________________________________ > > *Etymology* > > In Old Norse, the word is spelled v?kingr. The word appears on several > rune stones found in Scandinavia. In the Icelanders' sagas, v?king > refers to an overseas expedition (Old Norse fara ? v?king "to go on an > expedition"), and v?kingr, to a seaman or warrior taking part in such an > expedition. > > In Old English, the word wicing appears first in the Anglo-Saxon poem, > "Widsith", which probably dates from the 9th century. In Old English, > and in the writings of Adam von Bremen, the term refers to a pirate, and > is not a name for a people or a culture in general. Regardless of its > possible origins, the word was used more as a verb than as a noun, and > connoted an activity and not a distinct group of individuals. To "go > Viking" was distinctly different from Norse seaborne missions of trade > and commerce. > > The word disappeared in Middle English, and was reintroduced as Viking > during 18th century Romanticism (the "Viking revival"), with heroic > overtones of "barbarian warrior" or noble savage. > > During the 20th century, the meaning of the term was expanded to refer > not only to the raiders, but also to the entire period; it is now, > somewhat confusingly, used as a noun both in the original meaning of > raiders, warriors or navigators, and to refer to the Scandinavian > population in general. As an adjective, the word is used in expressions > like "Viking age", "Viking culture", "Viking colony", etc., generally > referring to medieval Scandinavia. The pre-Christian Scandinavian > population is also referred to as Norse, although that term is properly > applied to the whole civilization of Old-Norse-speaking people. In > current Scandinavian languages, the term Viking is applied to the people > who went away on Viking expeditions, be it for raiding or trading. > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > OK, I know Wikipedia articles sometimes need to be treated with caution, > but if that article is correct, Viking/viking seems to have been used > largely as a noun and an adjective since the 18th century and the verb > usage seems to have pretty much disappeared. > > In fact, if the first paragraph that I've quoted is correct, even in the > Icelandic sagas the word "viking" was a noun, meaning "an overseas > expedition", with "vikingr" referring to one who took part in such an > expedition. > > Norman T. > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:10:29 -0400 > From: Tuck <tuck12@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <BCA41B3B-F95F-46FF-9F9A-DD8C905997FB@comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > All, > > Ah, history. And just what is that? The famous quote says history is > written by the winners, and there is truth to that, but how much truth > is there to history? > > OK, so much of history as we know it is skewed and, often, little more > than propaganda, yet where would we be without it? When one thinks > back on, say, the history of England, one thinks almost immediately of > the list of kings marching along, and everything else seems to slot > into that. So the Tudor period, the Restoration, the Victorian age and > so on all take their place on the grid of royal succession. The same > is pretty well true everywhere else, with the French kings, the > Chinese, the Inca and so on. And of course that's only a small part of > the story, but no one writes down how Mrs. Doobiddle did the laundry > on the Monday in 1465. > > However, the very notion of history is undergoing deep changes. Today > historians refer to many kinds of history. Kings and Battles refers to > what was generally taught us when we were in school. But there is > Social History, Gender History, Economic History, Art History, > Histories of Science, Technology, Medicine, and on and on. More and > more historians are looking at things other than kings and battles and > actually concerning themselves a bit with Mrs. Doobiddle and her > laundry. Indeed I would wager someone, somewhere, is studying the > history of laundry. Why did only women do the washing? What were the > technologies of laundry at various times? Why in hell did Victorian > women, walking streets covered with horse droppings, and having no > modern washing machines, insist on dragging those long dresses through > the muck? Why did Rosa Bonheur, the mid 19th century French sculptor, > need permission from the police to wear trousers as she hung out in > the corrals? > > My daughter is an historian, and her subject is the student revolts > against the military crackdown in Brazil in the 1960s and 70s. Such > things (student reactions to events) have, until the last few decades, > been largely overlooked by historians. Perhaps further research will > tell us a whole lot more about those curious creatures we call > vikings, and exactly what they did, and did not, do. > > As for that pesky term Viking, it does seem, from this discussion, > that the word has early origins, rather different from those used to > day, but that it underwent a refurbishing in the 18th and 19th > centuries, just as the whole notion of Christmas did, especially in > the England of the 19th century, Dickens and all that. > So perhaps, for purposes of discussion here, we can agree that viking > is a noun describing a certain kind of activity carried out by a small > percentage of the population of certain northern countries during a > relatively narrow period of history. > > But those helmets with horns on sure are cool looking! > > > Tuck > On Jul 25, 2009, at 7:58 AM, Royce Perry wrote: > > > Shame on you Stephen....attribute your sources...and if it was > > published > > later than the mid 1200s it wouldn't support your position anyway. > > > > A point to conceder, almost everything we think we know about > > history is > > based on a very tiny part of the population. (This is true for > > nearly all > > history of any people anywhere and any when) The only things that > > survive > > are the activities of the nobles, leaders, poets, warriors, priests, > > bishops, shamans. People of prominence. We know almost nothing about > > the 99% > > that just got through life as best they could. The Sagas are > > particularly > > tricky because they are actually long epic praise poems about the > > doings of > > the warrior elite. And they were composed by the PR department...the > > skalds. > > They have a lot of factual history in them, but it's hard to tease > > out from > > the flack. Think in terms of a rock star's biography written by his > > press > > agent. Also they were originally oral, and only written down much > > later...by > > Christian monks. So how much did they "correct" the original > > material? We > > have the same problem with a lot of the very early Irish and Welch > > material. > > My issue with using the term "Viking" is that it has been > > Hollywooded into a > > stereotype for the whole Scandinavian culture of the time, when in > > fact was > > probably typical of only 1-2% of the population. Sort of like saying > > that > > the only people that lived in Medieval times were knights, nobles, > > kings, > > and clergy. > > R > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:orcadia-bounces@rootsweb.com > > ] On > > Behalf Of stephen davie > > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:32 PM > > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes > > > > Beg to differ.... > > > > viking...noun...any of the Scandinavian seafaring pirates or traders > > who raided in many of the parts of north western Europe in the 8-11 > > centuries. > > > > viking...the adjective...of or relating to vikings or the period in > > which they lived > > > > OK, I agree that it is a bad handle, especially perhaps for the more > > sensitive of us who indeed are descended from Norse forbears who > > happened in many Orcadian cases, to be indeed Vikings. I had a touch > > of the woozies in reading the details of some of the sagas and other > > historic works, but I never got to chose myh parents, and I guess I > > am who I am, descended on the side of my father from Kolbein Hruga > > and the Thorfins, many of whom fell into that big V category. Combine > > those Viking roots with the north american native content, and it is > > indeed perplexing if not overwhelming. > > > > One thing we learned here in Canada with the battle on the Plains of > > Abraham, where Montcalm fell to Wolf, in as much as some people try, > > ya can't change history. > > > > Cheers.....Stephen > > > > > > On Jul 24, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Royce Perry wrote: > > > >> > >> GGrrrrrr....Norse!!!! Viking is not a real word...and if it was it > >> was a verb...not a noun!!! Down With Viking!!! Up with Norse!!! > >> > >> R the Picky > >> > >>> To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > >>> From: stephen.davie@sympatico.ca > >>> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:53:06 -0400 > >>> Subject: [ORCADIA] Orkney Viking Hordes > >>> > >>> I was reading today on the www, that a father and son team , in July > >>> of 2007, unearthed a viking horde in England which was claimed to be > >>> worth a million pounds by some erudite evaluator. My propensity for > >>> speculation and romance kicks in again, as I recall the fascinating > >>> books of viking lore of the Orkneys, and I can't help but think that > >>> some day, some eager body in Orkney is going to unearth, perhaps by > >>> accident, an accumulation of sivler coins and jewelry, carefully > >>> concealed in the arms and safe keep of mother earth, by the viking > >>> who left by the sea on yet another summer raid perhaps, which fellow > >>> due to some dramatic and fatal event, never was to return to Orkney > >>> to unearth and retreave his stash of previously plundered and horded > >>> possessions. > >>> > >>> Surely I am not the sole keeper of this plausible dream. Indeed, on > >>> behalf of all the vikings who lived on Orkney...."Where is the > >>> "stuff" our forbears lusted after for all those centuries, when we > >>> raided the shores of Scotland, England and Ireland? > >>> > >>> Two years ago I acquired an underwater metal detector which is > >>> discriminatory by type of metal. It has not been out of the case, > >>> but > >>> this summer we are going to take it to our near north, to examine an > >>> old wreck which a very senior citizen visited in the 1930's, and > >>> from > >>> which he just received a cannon ball. The conjecture is that the > >>> boat > >>> would not have carried cannon balls, without a cannon. We assume the > >>> cannon will be brass, as the portage factor made slugging iron > >>> cannons across portages practically impossible. > >>> > >>> I maintain that Vikings would not embark on viking expeditions, > >>> without returning with the components of typical hordes. Based on > >>> the > >>> population, and the numerous excursions outlined in the sagas alone, > >>> there is logic to the view, which will be solidified the day someone > >>> trips over such a discovery. Obviously it is likely that many buried > >>> treasures there are in the "abeyence" file as to the required > >>> reporting to the government. > >>> > >>> Which begs the question....how many in Orkney have metal > >>> detectors? I > >>> suppose in light of the covetous albeit appropriate claims by > >>> historical authorities in Scotland to any artifiacts exhumed, that > >>> people are disinclined to bother, to some extent. When Mel Fisher > >>> discovered the Atocha, the sabres rattled over rights and ownership > >>> issues, for many years in many courts. When my friend Tracy Bowden > >>> exhumed th esilver banks wreck, concepcion (1642) he entertained > >>> armed security from the Dominican Republic on his boat for a decade, > >>> ensuring that their 50% made it to the museum in Porta Plata. > >>> > >>> In particular, it seems that Vikings were bead lovers, and one would > >>> think that in burial areas and amaongst old ruins, the beads which > >>> are durable, would surface on a somewhat regular basis. You might > >>> google viking beads, or Dr. Dan Carlsson, who is the acknowledged > >>> expert on the subject. I wrote to him once, and he is a very > >>> interesting and obviouosly expert historian. IN researching for the > >>> book project, I discovered that authors in Scotland interested in > >>> Orkney, would travel to Norway to fill in the blanks where Scottish > >>> notes were thin in some centuries. > >>> > >>> The absence of viking possessions in Orkney is redolent of an > >>> ongoing > >>> mystery, considering that their culture flourished for centuries in > >>> Orkney, and the object of their lusty voyages, was in large part, > >>> material valuables which would have returned to Orkney and been > >>> deposited in their private earthy banks. > >>> > >>> Looking forward to my trip over to Orkney and Norway in September. > >>> > >>> Cheers all....stephen > >>> _______________________________________ > >>> Orcadia Group Photo Album > >>> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- > >>> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> _______________________________________ > >> Orcadia Group Photo Album > >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- > >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > >> in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > _______________________________________ > > Orcadia Group Photo Album > > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > _______________________________________ > > Orcadia Group Photo Album > > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:30:49 -0400 > From: "Linda Rice" <vmaa2@cox.net> > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes > To: <orcadia@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <4A4682B1FDB94F5E9F15303CAFD92B6A@VMAA1> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > The beginning of the so-called "Viking Age" is generally accepted by most > scholars to be the raid at Lindisfarne in 793. The culture had its heyday > in > the 9th and 10th centuries, with the Battle of Stamford Bridge (Vikings vs > Anglo-Saxons) and then the Battle of Hastings (Anglo-Saxons vs Normans) in > 1066 most usually considered to be the "end" of the age. However it is also > worth noting that many consider the Battle of Largs (Scotland) in 1263 to > be > the ultimate final skirmish initiated by Vikings. It wasn't a big battle > and > had little historic impact, so it's pretty much been lost in the dust, so > to > speak. > > "Vikings" had a good run for about 250+ years. It is worth noting that the > Normans who won at Hastings were in fact of Norse descent. "Norman" means > North Man, the region of France from whence they came was settled by Norse. > > But getting back to the original posting... yes, I'm quite keen to see what > gets dug up anywhere on Orkney that is Viking. If a person who was very > interested in learning more about Vikings in Orkney wanted to plan a visit > someday, where would the best 'must see' places be? Is there a museum or > have all the best artifacts been carted off to London or someplace? > > Thanks! > > ::Linda:: > > > > -----Original Message----- > On Behalf Of Royce Perry > > Remember, the > time frame we are talking about only lasted from the mid 800's until the > late 900s early 1000s. Little more than 150 years. > R > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 15:59:40 +0100 > From: Norman Tulloch <norman@nwtulloch.vispa.com> > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <4A6B1DDC.7030309@nwtulloch.vispa.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Linda Rice wrote: > > > > But getting back to the original posting... yes, I'm quite keen to see > what > > gets dug up anywhere on Orkney that is Viking. If a person who was very > > interested in learning more about Vikings in Orkney wanted to plan a > visit > > someday, where would the best 'must see' places be? Is there a museum or > > have all the best artifacts been carted off to London or someplace? > > > > Thanks! > > > > ::Linda:: > > Tankerness House Museum in Kirkwall: > http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/kirkwall/orkneymuseum/index.html > > The Brough of Birsay: > > http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/westmainland/broughofbirsay/index.html > > St Magnus Cathedral, of course, and Orphir Church: > http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/westmainland/orphirchurch/index.html > > There must be a fair amount of Viking stuff at the National Museum of > Scotland in Edinburgh, but I haven't been there for a very long time, > and the British Museum in London is bound to have a lot too, from > various parts of the UK. > > Norman T. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 11:16:30 -0400 > From: Tuck <tuck12@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Fw: Orkney Viking Hordes > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <FE62D8B6-9F3F-47BD-8171-983BE7302FC0@comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > All, > > Normandy is called that because in the year 911 (auspicious number?) > the king of France, tired or Norse raids into the French interior with > their shallow draft boats, told the Norse he wold give them a chunk of > France if they wold stop raiding. He did, they did, and it is called > Normandy after their Northern origins. > > As for digging up Norse artifacts, there is yet another question that > must be asked and answered: suppose you do find things. Who owns them? > What do you do with them? Are they all carted off to London or > Edinburgh, can you sell them, can you keep them, or do they stay in > Orkney somehow? > > > Tuck > On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:30 AM, Linda Rice wrote: > > > The beginning of the so-called "Viking Age" is generally accepted by > > most > > scholars to be the raid at Lindisfarne in 793. The culture had its > > heyday in > > the 9th and 10th centuries, with the Battle of Stamford Bridge > > (Vikings vs > > Anglo-Saxons) and then the Battle of Hastings (Anglo-Saxons vs > > Normans) in > > 1066 most usually considered to be the "end" of the age. However it > > is also > > worth noting that many consider the Battle of Largs (Scotland) in > > 1263 to be > > the ultimate final skirmish initiated by Vikings. It wasn't a big > > battle and > > had little historic impact, so it's pretty much been lost in the > > dust, so to > > speak. > > > > "Vikings" had a good run for about 250+ years. It is worth noting > > that the > > Normans who won at Hastings were in fact of Norse descent. "Norman" > > means > > North Man, the region of France from whence they came was settled by > > Norse. > > > > But getting back to the original posting... yes, I'm quite keen to > > see what > > gets dug up anywhere on Orkney that is Viking. If a person who was > > very > > interested in learning more about Vikings in Orkney wanted to plan a > > visit > > someday, where would the best 'must see' places be? Is there a > > museum or > > have all the best artifacts been carted off to London or someplace? > > > > Thanks! > > > > ::Linda:: > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > On Behalf Of Royce Perry > > > > Remember, the > > time frame we are talking about only lasted from the mid 800's until > > the > > late 900s early 1000s. Little more than 150 years. > > R > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > Orcadia Group Photo Album > > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of ORCADIA Digest, Vol 2, Issue 54 > ************************************** > -- Nan Fowler Adult Education Program Department of Lifelong Education, Administration, and Policy River's Crossing, 4th Floor 850 College Station Road University of Georgia Athens, GA USA 30602

Oh Dear. Sorry, I forgot to include the dates of my visit, which are August 15 - 22. Unfortunately, I'll miss you by three days, Peggy. Janice Langland On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Margaret Bainton wrote: > What are the dates you'll be in South Flat? I'm in Orphir until > Aug. 12th > Peggy > > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Janice Langland <callmejanice@aol.com> wrote: > > > From: Janice Langland <callmejanice@aol.com> > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Ness of Brodgar excavations > To: orcadia@rootsweb.com > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 11:10 AM > > > Thanks, Sian. One of the things I enjoy most about Orkney is the > archaeology, and this is a short walk from the house we usually rent. > The others are the bird life, art, crafts, Orcadians themselves, the > beautiful scenery that changes within seconds as the light changes, > and the food. > > This year I'm going for only a week, not our usual long stay, so > I'll be car-free and living in Stromness. I'm renting South Flat near > the ferry - in case anyone on this link is interested in dropping by > for a cup of tea. > > Janice Langland > (P.S. Tuck will not be with me this time. He'll be in England, > singing in cathedrals while I'm in Orkney with my friend Lynda.) > > > On Jul 24, 2009, at 10:01 AM, Sian Thomas wrote: > >> The Ness of Brodgar is currently undergoing more excavation by a >> team of >> archaeologists. There's a daily blog posted by members of the team >> via >> Sigurd's web site if anyone is interested in keeping up with what is >> going on there : http://www.orkneyjar.com/archaeology/nessofbrodgar/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> Orcadia Group Photo Album >> http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > > > > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

All, Normandy is called that because in the year 911 (auspicious number?) the king of France, tired or Norse raids into the French interior with their shallow draft boats, told the Norse he wold give them a chunk of France if they wold stop raiding. He did, they did, and it is called Normandy after their Northern origins. As for digging up Norse artifacts, there is yet another question that must be asked and answered: suppose you do find things. Who owns them? What do you do with them? Are they all carted off to London or Edinburgh, can you sell them, can you keep them, or do they stay in Orkney somehow? Tuck On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:30 AM, Linda Rice wrote: > The beginning of the so-called "Viking Age" is generally accepted by > most > scholars to be the raid at Lindisfarne in 793. The culture had its > heyday in > the 9th and 10th centuries, with the Battle of Stamford Bridge > (Vikings vs > Anglo-Saxons) and then the Battle of Hastings (Anglo-Saxons vs > Normans) in > 1066 most usually considered to be the "end" of the age. However it > is also > worth noting that many consider the Battle of Largs (Scotland) in > 1263 to be > the ultimate final skirmish initiated by Vikings. It wasn't a big > battle and > had little historic impact, so it's pretty much been lost in the > dust, so to > speak. > > "Vikings" had a good run for about 250+ years. It is worth noting > that the > Normans who won at Hastings were in fact of Norse descent. "Norman" > means > North Man, the region of France from whence they came was settled by > Norse. > > But getting back to the original posting... yes, I'm quite keen to > see what > gets dug up anywhere on Orkney that is Viking. If a person who was > very > interested in learning more about Vikings in Orkney wanted to plan a > visit > someday, where would the best 'must see' places be? Is there a > museum or > have all the best artifacts been carted off to London or someplace? > > Thanks! > > ::Linda:: > > > > -----Original Message----- > On Behalf Of Royce Perry > > Remember, the > time frame we are talking about only lasted from the mid 800's until > the > late 900s early 1000s. Little more than 150 years. > R > > > > _______________________________________ > Orcadia Group Photo Album > http://tinyurl.com/28bx9x > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Topping my pet peeve would be those who attempt to debate in written medium yet cannot spell consider or Welsh. Perhaps those of a same mind would be willing to start a yahoo group for those who are more interested in debating then presenting information or sources. Oh yeah, another peeve, is those who don't change the subject line AND delete information that isn't pertinent. I prefer to have some empathy for those who receive via digest mode. One of the lessons learned while exploring the interweb was "Do not feed the trolls" or the topic of main interest will get de-railed indefinitely while endlessly discussing "their" pet peeve.