Don't know about official figures in Orkney, but since moving here my asthma condition has improved and I take far less drugs and have far less attacks. This is probably partly due to less traffic pollution, and maybe because I lead a much less stressful life-style. Also less crops, so less crop spraying - and I don't think I've seen a field of Oil Seed Rape since I moved here, which was one trigger for me and my horse! Sian Graemsay Orkney -----Original Message----- From: Tirabasso [mailto:zorahh@sssnet.com] Sent: 18 November 2003 22:57 To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [<orcadia>] Re:Salt air Salt air. Ah. Good point. Thanks for bringing that up. Should be fairly healthy to be breathing that. I'd be curious to know what the respiratory illness rate there would be like as compared to somewhere with less salt and moisture in the air. ______________________________

Knowing Jim as I do, he would have felt worse if you fell asleep while he was playing? Do you want his address?....Stephen On Thursday, November 20, 2003, at 09:52 PM, Tammy wrote: > Hi Steven > I could claim James Corrigal as a long lost cousin, but I wonder what > he would think of me, sleeping through the last 15 minutes of the Grey > Cup!!!! > One tree lover to another. > Tammy > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

Thankyou for the information. What a healthy dose of fresh air evidence of your project offers. I am sure you will enjoy the experience more than you envision. Birds arrive and other critters, as the trees grow and prosper. It is truly an unselfish and admirable pursuit. I will look forward to taking a peek at Jenny's project. Best of luck to you.........Sephen On Friday, November 21, 2003, at 05:30 AM, Simon wrote: > > > The species I am planting are a mixture of those generally agreed to > have > been present in the original woods which are Downy Birch, Hazel, Rowan, > Aspen, Willows, Roses, Honeysuckle and Juniper. Evidence for the early > presence of these trees has been found in pollen analysis studies and > in > pieces of timber or hazel nuts found preserved in the peat. The genetic > stock we are using comes from Berriedale on Hoy, recognised as the most > northerly native woodland in the UK. > > Jenny Taylor is the project officer of the Orkney Woodland development > project (Native Tree Restoration) she lives in Stomness and can be > emailed > at > > jtlarch@btinternet.com. > > The following URL gives more information about native species, the > paragraph > below is an extract. As an addendum, from the Science festival it > became > clear that as the trees were cleared in late meso and Neolithic times > their > is an additional effect, namely you break the line of defence and > cause a > natural erosion of the environment damaging more than the original > clearing > and creating a negative feedback loop which accelerates far beyond any > man > made activity. Something to do with balance and nature, that mysterious > stuff. This may in part explain the very rapid disappearance of the > Woodlands. > > regards, > > Simon. > > http://www.firth.orkney.sch.uk/trees/natrees.htm > > The History of Native Trees in Orkney (Extract) > > It is often assumed that the windswept Orkney landscape has always been > largely open and treeless. However, it seems that Orkney, like many > other > parts of the British Isles, originally had an extensive tree cover. > This > consisted mainly of dense birch/ hazel scrub with a tangled > understorey of > roses and honeysuckle. > > Approximately 5000 years ago, the Orkney climate may have deteriorated, > perhaps with an increase in on-shore winds. This may have started the > decline of the woods, at least in exposed coastal sites, or perhaps the > activities of Neolithic farmers (eg grazing, fire etc) brought about > the > rapid loss of most of the tree cover. Towards the end of the Neolithic > period, there seems to have been a period of less extensive farming > which > permitted a minor regeneration of the woodlands. The blanket peat which > covers large areas of Orkney today did not start to form until about > 1800 BC > ie. well after the woodlands had declined. Perhaps the loss of the > trees > produced more water-logged soils and this stimulated the peat > formation. By > Norse times, there were probably only patches of woodland remaining in > sheltered areas. > > There are still unanswered questions about the original tree cover of > Orkney - did it cover all of Orkney (including the outer isles), was it > complete or in scattered groups, exactly which species were present > and, was > it climate or man (or both) that caused its almost complete, and very > sudden, loss? > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Davie" <stephen.davie@sympatico.ca> > To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 6:24 PM > Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] Re:Fiona Northern Lights at last > > >> Simon: >> Interesting. What species of trees are you planting? Is there any >> sponsored attempt to do this sort of thing on an ongoing monitored >> basis? >> On Thursday, November 20, 2003, at 12:43 PM, Simon wrote: >> >>> In current Orcadian terms they are significant. >>> >>> We don't have acres of natural woodland for the same reason most of >>> the >>> highlands are denuded of trees, and many other parts of Europe. >>> SHEEP. >>> 5000 >>> years of grazing will knock back the trees a bit. >>> >>> We do have 25 hectares of native trees planted in the last few years >>> by >>> private citizens. I am planting 1500 in the spring on a further 3 >>> hectares. >>> If you plant one tree in your garden it will most likely die. If you >>> plant >>> 100 80 will live, and 20 will grow very well. If you plant 1000 the >>> survival >>> rates increase and so will the size of the most favoured. (The >>> Balfour >>> effect). If all the farmers planted trees rather than grass Orkney >>> would >>> become substantially fully forested in less than 50 years. >>> >>> Species wise, the reason many trees which thrive in far worse coastal >>> region - Canada, Alaska, etcetera, is because of our lack of cold >>> weather. >>> Firs/Evergreens need prolonged frost/sub zero temperatures and >>> effectively >>> dry conditions to hibernate through the winter. Our winters are wet >>> and mild >>> and therefore these species never turn off, and fail to thrive as a >>> result. >>> >>> I am surprised Sigurd that you don't know this. Jenny Taylor can >>> supply you >>> with the facts, as per the URL I supplied. There was also a full day >>> given >>> over to trees in Orkney at the Science festival in September, which >>> was very >>> enlightening. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Sigurd Towrie" <sigurd@orkneyjar.com> >>> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 11:20 AM >>> Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] Re:Fiona Northern Lights at last >>> >>> >>>> On 19/11/03 at 11:00 Simon wrote: >>>> >>>>> Otherwise we have no problem growing significant woodlands - >>>>> Binscarth, >>>>> Balfour, Woodwick, etc. >>>> >>>> I think I'd draw the line at calling Binscarth and Woodwick >>>> 'significant >>> woodlands'. >>>> >>>>> but Orkney could be nearly entirely forested (and was 5000 years >>>>> ago) if >>> so >>>>> wished. >>>> >>>> Nonsense. If that were the case why do we not have acres of natural >>> woodland? >>>> >>>> The climate 5,000 years ago was considerably more suited to woodland >>>> that >>> it is now. By the Bronze Age temperatures dropped and rainfall >>> increased. >>> With it came an increase in winds. This climatic deterioration saw >>> what >>> woodland areas remaining gradually die out. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sigurd Towrie >>>> Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney >>>> Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >>>> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with >>>> the >>>> word >>>> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >>> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the >>> word >>> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >>> >> >> >> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the >> word >> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >> >> > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

Great Stuff! On Thursday, November 20, 2003, at 08:02 PM, Grumpy wrote: > Bah humbug, the festive season looms once more, another year of > coloured > lights bulbs hung on wires from the Head of the Pier to the end of > Victoria > Street. I keep hoping that one year the OIC will use a bit more > imagination > when it comes decorating the town. Perhaps a visit to Finstown would > give > the council a bit of an idea what can be archived. I remember many > moons ago > visiting Glasgow as a child and being mesmerised by the dazzling > display of > Xmas lights. Admittedly Kirkwall is no Glasgow but for a few thousand > pounds > investment a better display could be made. Still I suppose I should not > grumble to much and be thankful for the multi million pound new pier > out at > Hatston!!!!! > > Down south many towns decorate the trees with lights, but then again > we are > led to believe that trees can't grow in Orkney, perhaps the main > reason for > trees not growing is that they need someone to plant them in the first > place! It's said that conifers don't grow because our winters are to > wet, so > I suppose the conifers that are growing down the Redland Road in > Finstown > and at other localities around Orkney must be a mirage. The climate and > conditions in Orkney are said to be similar to that of the South > Island of > New Zealand, in fact some of Orkney's widely planted shrubs are New > Zealand > natives and thrive very well. > > Farmers south divide many of their field with mixed native > trees/shrubs, not > only does this provide shelter for crops and farm animals it's a haven > for > wildlife. If Orkney farmers were to use a small percentage of the > thousands > of pound handouts from the goverment and spend it on planting mixed > hedging > then the Orkney landscape could be made to look more attractive not to > mention the effect it would have on reducing the wind speed. > > Take care. > > Grumpy > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

The species I am planting are a mixture of those generally agreed to have been present in the original woods which are Downy Birch, Hazel, Rowan, Aspen, Willows, Roses, Honeysuckle and Juniper. Evidence for the early presence of these trees has been found in pollen analysis studies and in pieces of timber or hazel nuts found preserved in the peat. The genetic stock we are using comes from Berriedale on Hoy, recognised as the most northerly native woodland in the UK. Jenny Taylor is the project officer of the Orkney Woodland development project (Native Tree Restoration) she lives in Stomness and can be emailed at jtlarch@btinternet.com. The following URL gives more information about native species, the paragraph below is an extract. As an addendum, from the Science festival it became clear that as the trees were cleared in late meso and Neolithic times their is an additional effect, namely you break the line of defence and cause a natural erosion of the environment damaging more than the original clearing and creating a negative feedback loop which accelerates far beyond any man made activity. Something to do with balance and nature, that mysterious stuff. This may in part explain the very rapid disappearance of the Woodlands. regards, Simon. http://www.firth.orkney.sch.uk/trees/natrees.htm The History of Native Trees in Orkney (Extract) It is often assumed that the windswept Orkney landscape has always been largely open and treeless. However, it seems that Orkney, like many other parts of the British Isles, originally had an extensive tree cover. This consisted mainly of dense birch/ hazel scrub with a tangled understorey of roses and honeysuckle. Approximately 5000 years ago, the Orkney climate may have deteriorated, perhaps with an increase in on-shore winds. This may have started the decline of the woods, at least in exposed coastal sites, or perhaps the activities of Neolithic farmers (eg grazing, fire etc) brought about the rapid loss of most of the tree cover. Towards the end of the Neolithic period, there seems to have been a period of less extensive farming which permitted a minor regeneration of the woodlands. The blanket peat which covers large areas of Orkney today did not start to form until about 1800 BC ie. well after the woodlands had declined. Perhaps the loss of the trees produced more water-logged soils and this stimulated the peat formation. By Norse times, there were probably only patches of woodland remaining in sheltered areas. There are still unanswered questions about the original tree cover of Orkney - did it cover all of Orkney (including the outer isles), was it complete or in scattered groups, exactly which species were present and, was it climate or man (or both) that caused its almost complete, and very sudden, loss? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Davie" <stephen.davie@sympatico.ca> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] Re:Fiona Northern Lights at last > Simon: > Interesting. What species of trees are you planting? Is there any > sponsored attempt to do this sort of thing on an ongoing monitored > basis? > On Thursday, November 20, 2003, at 12:43 PM, Simon wrote: > > > In current Orcadian terms they are significant. > > > > We don't have acres of natural woodland for the same reason most of the > > highlands are denuded of trees, and many other parts of Europe. SHEEP. > > 5000 > > years of grazing will knock back the trees a bit. > > > > We do have 25 hectares of native trees planted in the last few years by > > private citizens. I am planting 1500 in the spring on a further 3 > > hectares. > > If you plant one tree in your garden it will most likely die. If you > > plant > > 100 80 will live, and 20 will grow very well. If you plant 1000 the > > survival > > rates increase and so will the size of the most favoured. (The Balfour > > effect). If all the farmers planted trees rather than grass Orkney > > would > > become substantially fully forested in less than 50 years. > > > > Species wise, the reason many trees which thrive in far worse coastal > > region - Canada, Alaska, etcetera, is because of our lack of cold > > weather. > > Firs/Evergreens need prolonged frost/sub zero temperatures and > > effectively > > dry conditions to hibernate through the winter. Our winters are wet > > and mild > > and therefore these species never turn off, and fail to thrive as a > > result. > > > > I am surprised Sigurd that you don't know this. Jenny Taylor can > > supply you > > with the facts, as per the URL I supplied. There was also a full day > > given > > over to trees in Orkney at the Science festival in September, which > > was very > > enlightening. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sigurd Towrie" <sigurd@orkneyjar.com> > > To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 11:20 AM > > Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] Re:Fiona Northern Lights at last > > > > > >> On 19/11/03 at 11:00 Simon wrote: > >> > >>> Otherwise we have no problem growing significant woodlands - > >>> Binscarth, > >>> Balfour, Woodwick, etc. > >> > >> I think I'd draw the line at calling Binscarth and Woodwick > >> 'significant > > woodlands'. > >> > >>> but Orkney could be nearly entirely forested (and was 5000 years > >>> ago) if > > so > >>> wished. > >> > >> Nonsense. If that were the case why do we not have acres of natural > > woodland? > >> > >> The climate 5,000 years ago was considerably more suited to woodland > >> that > > it is now. By the Bronze Age temperatures dropped and rainfall > > increased. > > With it came an increase in winds. This climatic deterioration saw what > > woodland areas remaining gradually die out. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Sigurd Towrie > >> Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney > >> Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com > >> > >> > >> > >> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > >> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > >> word > >> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >> > > > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > > word > > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >

My my my, what have we here? With the greatest of respect, are you suggesting, historic evidence aside, that the creator of this planet didn't ever impose trees some places on Orkney? Trees aren't a "new age" imposing concept, save and except for the toxic artificial ones made with oil from the sea off Orkney and elsewhere. They aren't a threatening foreign concept. I too am not a fan of hairclipped hedgrows that by design highlight extravagant entrances to modern-day castles flaunting unconscionable consumerism. However, on behalf of grouse, hares, songbirds, various bugs and other critters, those historic Orkney residents now reduced in numbers, it is fair for anyone on planet earth to look at this unique ecosystem and compare the current form against what was years ago. Not an unhealthy exercise. Look at how you oogle over the 3000 year old architecture. Well, landscape too is architecture and worth examining. Over here in gadget-guzzling America we haven't done that sort of evaluating enough, obviously. You know, your Orkney yesteryear theme is a great idea for Disneyland! Kind of an elaboration of their "Pirates of the Caribbean." I envision a brightly decorated honey coloured wooden vessel on an invisible track, traveling at 9.3 kph for 19 minutes on a circuitous route through stone crofts and bleating sheep, attacked occasionally by sword-wielding bearded Vikings, with screaming women with kicking feet, flopped over their broad shoulders, their blood curdling cries amplified in perfect digital stereo over speakers hidden from view by, oops, trees. And judging by the pumping of "Orkney, the Tourist Destination", if you aren't careful, you are small enough that you could become a theme park! Seems like it is close enough to the UK mainland that it becomes a smog-free affordable summertime retreat for city-weary Londoners who's overtaxed incomes don't stretch to the Yukon or south Africa. Think that's not a serious threat? Go to any of the islands in the world from Malaysia through the South Pacific and the islands England exploited such as Tortola the British Virgins, Jamaica,Turks and Cacos, Barbados and countless others. Islands are fragile, often complex but restricted (waste disposal, drinking water, fuel,vegetation) and individually unique. Single malt instead of rum. Oil instead of gold. That's why examining what was and comparing it to what is becomes valid and natural. The more natural islands are, the more unique in this exploited shrinking world. In this regard, Orkney has benefited from a situation where the current population is less than it was in 1750. Less people--less pressure. Magnificent. Unique. Breathtaking. A population in reverse. Time may well be nigh to prepare for post-oil Orkney. Don't see much in the way of significant cultural contributions to Orkney from those international corporate giants who vacuum the black gold from beneath your fish. (Over here, nowdays, huge percentages of resources go directly to the natives.) Course, the demands for deductible gratuitous expenditures have more political propellent on the U.K. mainland. That's where the numbers are, and the political benefits. So why contribute to Orkney in any long-term meaningful way if you aren't even asked? It would be of no benefit to mainland political forces and needed federal approvals, approvals to dig deeper and longer for more oil at more risk. Better the oil giant should build, with Orkney oil money, a football stadium in Manchester. I mean, did you ever ask yourself how politically impotent your elected representation of twenty five thousand shrinking fragmented islanders, unconnected by roads, must be in London or Edinburgh? Sortof like a British Newfoundland. They have oil beneath codfish as well. And their local input matters not one iota. But they get even provincial with tax laws, laid out before sea oil was discovered. They are on the edge of change that may not be good. Thing to do is slip around the Globe a few times and have a current-day peek. What they don't want you to see is seldom on the internet. Gota buy the ticket. Lots of chainsaws out there(Brasil, Peru, Canada). Lotsa future demand for oil (China). Lotsa traffic to Disneyworld! So what caught my attention? You say let the trees fall where they may? I say, let the trees grow where they once fell--even in Orkney! Hats off to the chap who responded that he is planting 25 hectares this spring in Orkney. That is a positive, admirable and unselfish move, and thank goodness likely representative of great, responsible Orkney stewardship. Stewardship essential for survival as a cultural pearl in an unspoiled natural setting. And he is paying the lot out of his own pocket. Bravo! Gee, it's friday:..........Have a nice weekend folks..........Stephen On Friday, November 21, 2003, at 06:40 AM, George Coghill wrote: > > My Dear Friends, > > Is there a movement afoot, led by some modern incarnation of Capability > Brown, to turn Orkney into a well-manicured new age conception of the > forest primeval, a manor park rather than one of the most naturally > beautiful landscapes on the planet? Sigurd, don't let them take my > rugged rocky silhouettes softened and given a barely tangible subtlety > by the heather and other shrubbage (not a word, I know, but I like it). > The odd tree or grove, tough survivors as were our Norse ancestors, are > admirable and beautiful, but the thought of disfiguring the openness of > the land with hedgerows and other major plantings makes me a touch > queasy. I smell a conspiracy, and I think Disney must be behind it, > turning Orkney into an American style theme park. Or perhaps a German > Uber-Konglomerate, to turn ancient Orca into Deutschneyland! > > Let the trees fall where they may. > > Your overseas cousin, > George Coghill > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

Dear Grumpy, What a very nice note you sent...... Your note describes you to a tee. <grin> Who are you? <g> Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grumpy" <grumpy_in_orkney@btinternet.com> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 8:02 PM Subject: [<orcadia>] seasons greetings! > Bah humbug, the festive season looms once more, another year of coloured > lights bulbs hung on wires from the Head of the Pier to the end of Victoria > Street. I keep hoping that one year the OIC will use a bit more imagination > when it comes decorating the town. Perhaps a visit to Finstown would give > the council a bit of an idea what can be archived. I remember many moons ago > visiting Glasgow as a child and being mesmerised by the dazzling display of > Xmas lights. Admittedly Kirkwall is no Glasgow but for a few thousand pounds > investment a better display could be made. Still I suppose I should not > grumble to much and be thankful for the multi million pound new pier out at > Hatston!!!!! > > Down south many towns decorate the trees with lights, but then again we are > led to believe that trees can't grow in Orkney, perhaps the main reason for > trees not growing is that they need someone to plant them in the first > place! It's said that conifers don't grow because our winters are to wet, so > I suppose the conifers that are growing down the Redland Road in Finstown > and at other localities around Orkney must be a mirage. The climate and > conditions in Orkney are said to be similar to that of the South Island of > New Zealand, in fact some of Orkney's widely planted shrubs are New Zealand > natives and thrive very well. > > Farmers south divide many of their field with mixed native trees/shrubs, not > only does this provide shelter for crops and farm animals it's a haven for > wildlife. If Orkney farmers were to use a small percentage of the thousands > of pound handouts from the goverment and spend it on planting mixed hedging > then the Orkney landscape could be made to look more attractive not to > mention the effect it would have on reducing the wind speed. > > Take care. > > Grumpy > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > >

My Dear Friends, Is there a movement afoot, led by some modern incarnation of Capability Brown, to turn Orkney into a well-manicured new age conception of the forest primeval, a manor park rather than one of the most naturally beautiful landscapes on the planet? Sigurd, don't let them take my rugged rocky silhouettes softened and given a barely tangible subtlety by the heather and other shrubbage (not a word, I know, but I like it). The odd tree or grove, tough survivors as were our Norse ancestors, are admirable and beautiful, but the thought of disfiguring the openness of the land with hedgerows and other major plantings makes me a touch queasy. I smell a conspiracy, and I think Disney must be behind it, turning Orkney into an American style theme park. Or perhaps a German Uber-Konglomerate, to turn ancient Orca into Deutschneyland! Let the trees fall where they may. Your overseas cousin, George Coghill

Bah humbug, the festive season looms once more, another year of coloured lights bulbs hung on wires from the Head of the Pier to the end of Victoria Street. I keep hoping that one year the OIC will use a bit more imagination when it comes decorating the town. Perhaps a visit to Finstown would give the council a bit of an idea what can be archived. I remember many moons ago visiting Glasgow as a child and being mesmerised by the dazzling display of Xmas lights. Admittedly Kirkwall is no Glasgow but for a few thousand pounds investment a better display could be made. Still I suppose I should not grumble to much and be thankful for the multi million pound new pier out at Hatston!!!!! Down south many towns decorate the trees with lights, but then again we are led to believe that trees can't grow in Orkney, perhaps the main reason for trees not growing is that they need someone to plant them in the first place! It's said that conifers don't grow because our winters are to wet, so I suppose the conifers that are growing down the Redland Road in Finstown and at other localities around Orkney must be a mirage. The climate and conditions in Orkney are said to be similar to that of the South Island of New Zealand, in fact some of Orkney's widely planted shrubs are New Zealand natives and thrive very well. Farmers south divide many of their field with mixed native trees/shrubs, not only does this provide shelter for crops and farm animals it's a haven for wildlife. If Orkney farmers were to use a small percentage of the thousands of pound handouts from the goverment and spend it on planting mixed hedging then the Orkney landscape could be made to look more attractive not to mention the effect it would have on reducing the wind speed. Take care. Grumpy

Wow, it must be amazing growing up with this going on in your skies at night. What are some of the Orkney folktales about the lights? Hello, by the way. I'm new to the list and very happy to be here. I look forward to learning more about life in your islands. Roxyanne Young San Diego, CA, USA

Hi Steven I could claim James Corrigal as a long lost cousin, but I wonder what he would think of me, sleeping through the last 15 minutes of the Grey Cup!!!! One tree lover to another. Tammy

Stephen, Oh, my, I should have asked and have no idea what the trees were. I'll have to dig around a bit and try and find out. Actually, I had already wondered about it during the recent discussion, and was a little embarrassed that I had no idea. At the time I was too busy being amazed by the beautiful and exotic looking flowers, and, I guess, the trees didn't seem that unusual to me. We did walk down a road/path that was shaded by many of them. Charles Tait's aerial of Shapinsay shows the large group of trees. It's really quite a forest for Orkney. You don't realize it goes on for so far. I grew up in Iowa where farmers planted long rows of trees on what had been open prairie land to shelter their buildings and animals from all that wind and snow descending upon us from Canada. And, yes, the ducks are still parading at the Peabody. They'll be marching in for the lighting of the giant Christmas tree in the lobby in a few days. I'm afraid the tree is fake, though splendid. The ducks and the water in the fountain are very real. Karen

In current Orcadian terms they are significant. We don't have acres of natural woodland for the same reason most of the highlands are denuded of trees, and many other parts of Europe. SHEEP. 5000 years of grazing will knock back the trees a bit. We do have 25 hectares of native trees planted in the last few years by private citizens. I am planting 1500 in the spring on a further 3 hectares. If you plant one tree in your garden it will most likely die. If you plant 100 80 will live, and 20 will grow very well. If you plant 1000 the survival rates increase and so will the size of the most favoured. (The Balfour effect). If all the farmers planted trees rather than grass Orkney would become substantially fully forested in less than 50 years. Species wise, the reason many trees which thrive in far worse coastal region - Canada, Alaska, etcetera, is because of our lack of cold weather. Firs/Evergreens need prolonged frost/sub zero temperatures and effectively dry conditions to hibernate through the winter. Our winters are wet and mild and therefore these species never turn off, and fail to thrive as a result. I am surprised Sigurd that you don't know this. Jenny Taylor can supply you with the facts, as per the URL I supplied. There was also a full day given over to trees in Orkney at the Science festival in September, which was very enlightening. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sigurd Towrie" <sigurd@orkneyjar.com> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] Re:Fiona Northern Lights at last > On 19/11/03 at 11:00 Simon wrote: > > >Otherwise we have no problem growing significant woodlands - Binscarth, > >Balfour, Woodwick, etc. > > I think I'd draw the line at calling Binscarth and Woodwick 'significant woodlands'. > > >but Orkney could be nearly entirely forested (and was 5000 years ago) if so > >wished. > > Nonsense. If that were the case why do we not have acres of natural woodland? > > The climate 5,000 years ago was considerably more suited to woodland that it is now. By the Bronze Age temperatures dropped and rainfall increased. With it came an increase in winds. This climatic deterioration saw what woodland areas remaining gradually die out. > > > > > > -- > Sigurd Towrie > Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney > Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

Simon: Interesting. What species of trees are you planting? Is there any sponsored attempt to do this sort of thing on an ongoing monitored basis? On Thursday, November 20, 2003, at 12:43 PM, Simon wrote: > In current Orcadian terms they are significant. > > We don't have acres of natural woodland for the same reason most of the > highlands are denuded of trees, and many other parts of Europe. SHEEP. > 5000 > years of grazing will knock back the trees a bit. > > We do have 25 hectares of native trees planted in the last few years by > private citizens. I am planting 1500 in the spring on a further 3 > hectares. > If you plant one tree in your garden it will most likely die. If you > plant > 100 80 will live, and 20 will grow very well. If you plant 1000 the > survival > rates increase and so will the size of the most favoured. (The Balfour > effect). If all the farmers planted trees rather than grass Orkney > would > become substantially fully forested in less than 50 years. > > Species wise, the reason many trees which thrive in far worse coastal > region - Canada, Alaska, etcetera, is because of our lack of cold > weather. > Firs/Evergreens need prolonged frost/sub zero temperatures and > effectively > dry conditions to hibernate through the winter. Our winters are wet > and mild > and therefore these species never turn off, and fail to thrive as a > result. > > I am surprised Sigurd that you don't know this. Jenny Taylor can > supply you > with the facts, as per the URL I supplied. There was also a full day > given > over to trees in Orkney at the Science festival in September, which > was very > enlightening. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sigurd Towrie" <sigurd@orkneyjar.com> > To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 11:20 AM > Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] Re:Fiona Northern Lights at last > > >> On 19/11/03 at 11:00 Simon wrote: >> >>> Otherwise we have no problem growing significant woodlands - >>> Binscarth, >>> Balfour, Woodwick, etc. >> >> I think I'd draw the line at calling Binscarth and Woodwick >> 'significant > woodlands'. >> >>> but Orkney could be nearly entirely forested (and was 5000 years >>> ago) if > so >>> wished. >> >> Nonsense. If that were the case why do we not have acres of natural > woodland? >> >> The climate 5,000 years ago was considerably more suited to woodland >> that > it is now. By the Bronze Age temperatures dropped and rainfall > increased. > With it came an increase in winds. This climatic deterioration saw what > woodland areas remaining gradually die out. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sigurd Towrie >> Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney >> Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com >> >> >> >> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the >> word >> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >> > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

Dear Fiona: Thanks for your kind comment. Would not it be great to be able to slip back in time a thousand years and island-hop in Orkney on a longship? We could have an evening bonfire from driftwood collected on a deserted west-facing beach, and enjoy the warmth of our huge crackling and dancing blaze, roast a few fish and birds, drink some ale, and watch with the seals that flaming red sunset washed away slowly by a subtle blackness that provides an eery backdrop for frolicking northern lights and a billion glittering stars. I have done this in our north. It surly clears the crud out of one's mind, and fuels the soul. People living in Orkney will laugh.Yep, we're all nuts! But you see, they aren't us. They are still there. I read the old records of my family forefathers, who left young and penniless their tough little Orkney farms and hungry families, fought their way across a treacherous frozen ocean in cork-like wooden boats driven by wind and prayer, and lived and paddled with first nations people here, across a vast mapless and often cruel land where in the winter each breath they drew was a mixture of dry frozen air, snow and ice, and in the summer, a gritty mixture of squirming black flies and mosquitoes, and where a deserved dead sleep could result in a fight for life with a polar bear. I've experienced the encounters with the bears and the bugs and the weather, but within yards of a dependable bushplane and radio. I just now received a painting of our ancient farm in Grimbister which fortunately has the blessing of truly deserving present- day owners. The owners make Grimbister cheese. The farm is on the sea, a mile or two from Finstown west of Kirkwall. Earlier ancestors lived on other islands where in one case thousand year old ruins of a fort occupied by them still exist. The Kirkwall artist, Jane Glue (Shorelines Gallery), was so understanding and incredibly fairminded. Her painting speaks as much by emotion as it does through her magic colours. I met, sortof through this site this summer, a dear older relative living in Stennes. We connect very distinctly back in the mid 1700's. I spoke to her on the phone. Dead spots both ways I assumed were lumps in throats. For they were on my end for sure. She has been studying family history all her life in Orkney, and had hoped someone would pop up to answer questions about her kin who disappeared in the great north west. I sent her my notes. She knew the farm well. Our family trees were both identical back to 1700. Beyond that, we had the benefit of an older report from Orkney, reaching back to our vikings of the Saga. She enjoyed a copy of that report, and she remembered the gentleman who compiled it, from her early childhood years ago. I recall saying to her, "Margaret, this late fall I am going to stand in that place and soak it up, breathe it in and plant it in my heart and brain forever." She said," OOH Stephen, ye dinna' want to just stand there. You'll wan teh walk rright rround it all! Hilda won't mind I'm surre." Bless her big 79-year-old heart! Would it be nice to have that walk with her. Standing or walking, regardless of wind and cold, those crocodile tears on my cheeks won't be a reaction to the weather. Our extended family here, significant now in numbers and firmly established in the modern America, are going to re-attach those ancient researched and proven Orcadian roots, and like a scrub willow tree, we won't get blown away. I am not alone in these thoughts. I'm the last runner in what has been a long relay race, my position owed to others and my task clear. People are counting on a good finish. Thanks, Fiona of York. I understand how incredibly impacting and emotional your trips back there have been. Humble as they were, those homes you describe were yours. And they weren't easy to build and heat. Great stuff, actually, isn't it? Cheers.......Stephen On Wednesday, November 19, 2003, at 05:13 PM, Fiona Pearson wrote: > What an eloquent and interesting piece, Steve Davie. i did enjoy your > views on trees. It has made me want to send my two penneth... > I have only been to Orkney three times, but i've read and devoured > much on my obsession (with the orkney archipelago). i understood that > the reason trees didn't grow in abundance was much to do with the > seeds being blown away, that they didn't have a chance to take root. > Re the wind: I remember being told about a trip to Sanday (where i > actually spent a wonderfully calm and sunny day) - and an experience > of strong horizontal winds that blew so long and so hard that a blue > hire car became white with sea salt after a couple of days - a white > out! The sea is always so close on all the straggly-limbed land of > Sanday. > I do remember seeing a specifically grown copse in a gully somewhere > just south of Kirkwall (?), a dense patch, sculpted by the wind as if > the trees were deliberately trying to huddle together for survival, > planted by someone who had to fight the elements until they grew > strong enough to cope on their own (?) - those of you who live on > Mainland qualified to add to that one... > And as a child, before i was aware of my ancestral connections with > Orkney, i loved wide open spaces, particularly unfenced fields (which > i first discovered in Elie, Fife, Scotland). I now think Orkney was in > my blood!! i feel i 'remembered' my roots - like a dog that pads > around in circles to flatten the imaginary grass of its bed! I was > bowled over when i first saw the oh-so-wide open panoramas, as far as > the eye could see - sea and low rolling treeless hills (no deflection > for the wind). > Since childhood (and Katie Morag books...) i've also had a fascination > for small islands and a sheer delight in proximity to sea with small > sandy beaches - i know, who doesn't! :>) > Orkney's islands are abundant with such - i have twice stood on > gloriously windy and uplifting sandy/sandy-pebbly shores to view the > ruins of actual humble homes of my rich (in life) ancestors. Both > families of my father's parents lived thus, one on Westray and one on > Shapinsay. It's an amazing feeling - to stand and stare at these - to > see with my eyes the views that they saw every day, and more than > likely took for granted. > Aaaah....... > > Fiona - the Fiona in York, UK - who is in awe of Fiona in Orkney's > wonderful photographic capturings of Scottish islands... > > _________________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! > http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

*********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** On 19/11/03 at 22:42 Charles Tait <charles.tait@zetnet.co.uk> wrote: >While on the subject of trees just to say that much of the large areas >of plantings on the Flow Country of Caithness and Sutherland which were >created as a result of tax breaks in the 1980s are being cleared as they >are inappropriate and in fact now considered bad for the environment >there - it is a huge peat bog. > >All the evidence suggests that there never were forests in Orkney after >the Ice Age but that the vegetation was rather scrub which gave way to >grassland on the lower levels and heather moorland higher up. This may >already have been happening before the Neolithic farmers, perhaps with >some assistance from Mesolithic hunter-gatherers. > >The climate is quite different to anywhere in Canada on account of the >different effect of the sea. At the same latitude in Canada there are >cold ocean currents, whereas here we have the NE Atlantic Slope Current >which warms our waters and leads to the rich seas to the west. The same >ocean gives us our maritime air, which is rarely very cold, but always >moist and when windy always laden with salt. > >While trees find this climate harsh, many other flora seem to thrive, so >that we end up with a very rich and diverse environment which depends on >the juxtaposition of farmland, moorland, sea coast and marshes for its >variety. It is not much use lecturing Orcadians on eating meat - cattle >are the best suited crop here. Anyway humans can't eat grass but cows >can. > >The long hours of daylight and sunshine in summer make up for the >relatively short growing season with the result that while orkney may >not be much good for trees it is great for grass, and any other plants >that like such conditions, like the 1,000s of wild flowers which grace >the verges, field edges, banks, cliffs, etc. > >The short-sighted folks who wish to use weedkillers as a means of making >their monocultures even more monochrome should really come and look. >Thing is they probably wouldn't see. It is a bit like when I am out and >about in Scotland or wherever. I might stop the car and consider a >photo or two, so I just look for a while and maybe take a picture and >maybe not depending on the light, etc. In the meantime several cars >will stop, folk will put a little box to their face press the button and >roar off. > >They never look at the view. Japanese folk will ask to be photographed >in front of the view, but never looking at it, although they usually do >look when the photo is taken. Often I will come back later or another >time and sometimes it might take many visits to get a shot worth >thinking about. > >Oh well reminds me of the poem "Oh what is life if we have not time to >stand and stare..." >-- >Charles Tait Photographic Limited, Kelton, St Ola, Orkney, UK KW15 1TR >Tel 01856 873738 Fax 01856 875313 Mobile 07785 220269 >All outgoing and incoming mail is checked by Norton Antivirus 2003 >email charles.tait@zetnet.co.uk >website http://www.charles-tait.co.uk > > > *********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE ***********

Karen: Your points about trees are apreciated. What type of trees were planted around Balfour Castle? But my they can be so tough! Many times, for example, while flying low level in the floatplane, I have seen typically, a huge white pine tree on the edge of a soil-free granite outcrop cliff, it's roots running helplessly down that sheer rock face. Often this example of tree courage is exposed to, for example, Georgian Bay where for over a hundred miles, accelerating ferocious winds would assault that exposed cliff and tree. On Hudson's Bay, the scrub willow tree thrives. Although you would not pick this species for a manicured front lawn in Memphis, it has a giving bending nature that eliminates the wind problem, and ptarmagin and foxes and hare all feed and shelter where they are thick. It provides no resistance to the wind. By the way, I love your Peabody Hotel! Hope they still have their ducks. Stephen On Wednesday, November 19, 2003, at 07:26 PM, KJEMEM@aol.com wrote: > Winds can definitely take there toll on the tree population. We're not > subject to the strong winds on a regular basis in Memphis, but this > summer we were > hit by a storm of straight line winds at hurricane speeds. Hundred > year old > Oaks were pulled completely out of the ground. It was a very sad > sight. > Sadder for those who had one of those big trees land on there homes. > I escaped > that kind of damage, but was without electricity for two weeks. I > can't imagine > the trees ever getting as big as ours do if those winds were a frequent > occurrence. > > I do remember seeing a wonderful collection of trees around the > gardens at > Balfour castle. So it is possible with a lot of time, effort, careful > planning, > and probably money to start over when some get lost, to grow trees in > Orkney. > > Karen > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

Dear Tammy: When I took off on my tree tangent yesterday, I afterwards underwent a red-faced period of concern for what I had done, or overdone. Thankyou for your comments. Very timely. No, I am not a teacher. I simply have broad and diversified interests and have been in the habit of standing up for time to time for what I think seems rightminded. I am trying to compile, while I am able, our Orkney history in it's final form, from work that three successive previous generations have worked on. I have a son who is a teacher, living in Taiwan. His old mysterious island blood curdles like yours, and next year he is going to move to Manitoulin Island in Georgian Bay/Lake Huron, when he will live out his life in a special quiet place, which I observe draws parallels to Orkney. It is often said so of that place. It is heartwaming to see a Canorky (Orkney rooted Canadian) respond in kind with reference to our national passion for dead- end clear cutting. It fascinates me that your gg grandfather James Corrigal bears the same name as the football great James Corrigal from here. I think I still have his phone number in the USA. He is a CFL legend. Thanks Kido.........Stephen On Wednesday, November 19, 2003, at 12:13 PM, Tammy wrote: > Good morning everyone! > > It is snowing, right now! I love the snow, makes everything look > clean. > I have never been to Orkney, but plan to someday soon! This would > be my most, exciting trip ever. > In British Columbia, Canada, the forests were thick, but with clear > cutting, the forests are thinning out quickly. If clear cutting isn't > stopped, we too will be saying "where are all the trees"?. Very sad > question. > Here, in Edmonton, we get the Northern Lights all the time. Some > nights, they are bright and seem to dance in the winter's sky. I love > taking my dog out for walks around 11pm, just to watch them. All the > pictures of the Nothern Lights in Orkney are beautiful! > As for Betty Corrigal's grave, and the old Corrigal Farm, I do not > know if they belong to my family. My great great grandfather, James > Corrigal was born 1794 in Orkney. I have lots of information after > arriving to Canada in 1813. I do not know anything about him or his > family before 1813. This is were my search ends, but I want to know > more. > Steve Davie, are you a teacher? Your note was very powerful and > makes one think! And all your spelling is correct. I am the worst > speller as you will notice! > > Cheers > Tammy Corrigal > > > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

In a message dated 11/19/03 7:32:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, KJEMEM@aol.com writes: > careful planning, > and probably money to start over when some get lost, to grow trees in > Orkney. > The most important part is the planning. It would, for instance, be ridiculous to plant a forest of evergreens in an area that was originaly populated (so to speak) with a variety of deciduous trees in the majority, and a minority of evergreens. Careful study of ancient writings will reveal what kinds of trees and hedge-rows are native. Then the right birds must be brought in, if they have completely gone. The trees are not just for humans.... Anne, planter this year of 1 Callery Pear, 2 maples, and 1 holly in my little corner plot near Philadelphia

What an eloquent and interesting piece, Steve Davie. i did enjoy your views on trees. It has made me want to send my two penneth... I have only been to Orkney three times, but i've read and devoured much on my obsession (with the orkney archipelago). i understood that the reason trees didn't grow in abundance was much to do with the seeds being blown away, that they didn't have a chance to take root. Re the wind: I remember being told about a trip to Sanday (where i actually spent a wonderfully calm and sunny day) - and an experience of strong horizontal winds that blew so long and so hard that a blue hire car became white with sea salt after a couple of days - a white out! The sea is always so close on all the straggly-limbed land of Sanday. I do remember seeing a specifically grown copse in a gully somewhere just south of Kirkwall (?), a dense patch, sculpted by the wind as if the trees were deliberately trying to huddle together for survival, planted by someone who had to fight the elements until they grew strong enough to cope on their own (?) - those of you who live on Mainland qualified to add to that one... And as a child, before i was aware of my ancestral connections with Orkney, i loved wide open spaces, particularly unfenced fields (which i first discovered in Elie, Fife, Scotland). I now think Orkney was in my blood!! i feel i 'remembered' my roots - like a dog that pads around in circles to flatten the imaginary grass of its bed! I was bowled over when i first saw the oh-so-wide open panoramas, as far as the eye could see - sea and low rolling treeless hills (no deflection for the wind). Since childhood (and Katie Morag books...) i've also had a fascination for small islands and a sheer delight in proximity to sea with small sandy beaches - i know, who doesn't! :>) Orkney's islands are abundant with such - i have twice stood on gloriously windy and uplifting sandy/sandy-pebbly shores to view the ruins of actual humble homes of my rich (in life) ancestors. Both families of my father's parents lived thus, one on Westray and one on Shapinsay. It's an amazing feeling - to stand and stare at these - to see with my eyes the views that they saw every day, and more than likely took for granted. Aaaah....... Fiona - the Fiona in York, UK - who is in awe of Fiona in Orkney's wonderful photographic capturings of Scottish islands... _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband