Very good ! cheers Thompson in PEI Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tirabasso" <zorahh@sssnet.com> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] "Rediscovered" Stenness monoliths > The text indicates that they came out from the water, but is it possible > they were originally in the Ring and went down to the Loch to get a drink? > > Pat > > > Almost a year late, but I've finally posted two pics of the monoliths > > found in 2002 by the shore of the Stenness loch. These added weight to > > the idea that the stones for Brodgar/Stenness were transported by water > > to the 'construction site(s)'. > > > > http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/brodgar/building.htm > > > > -- > > Sigurd Towrie > > Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney > > Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com > > Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com > > Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk > > > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >

" Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww" Isabella Steve Davie wrote: > Hi there, Grumpy: > > I'm breaking a rule I made last week after the bantering about on the > site of the "T" word. That was a ride of Titanic proportions. First > time I ever got a red face from e-mail. > > You see, this week I decided to dump some of the mail off the in box, > and read again a few of your comments in doing so. So here goes. > > I have to tell you that I admire your balance of common sense and > power of observation and reporting ability on one side of the equation > , and as an essential offset to keep you sane in this democratized > shrinking world, a little cynical dark humour to exercise your capable > brain where the world lets us all down. > > I gleaned from your musings that you once were a council member in > Orkney. Is that correct? Assuming that the trip for you was a little > frustrating, did you opt out? Ever think of giving it another go? When > are your municipal elections, and how often? > > I too spent a time at this art form called government. When I bucked > against the boring and popular with some of my ideas, they went over > with my council like a pregnant poll vaulter. Seems all the bad guys > were the best lobby people. Doing what was right, was usually > unpopular. I became of the opinion that many meeting would have been > more enjoyable with bar service. Poliiticians around here are either > at sleep at meetings, or at war. > > So, Grumpy, why not toss the old hat in the ring, and colour up the > political landscape on those unique little islands of ours? I'll help > with the buttons and ads. Hey, at today's rates, I could work the > phones from over here! Maybe someone in Australia would pitch in too. > How could you beat that? > > Hey, when I'm over there I'd love to sit across a table from you in > some quaint little stone dram well, and eat clams and exchange > experiences and wash it all down with something wet and intoxicating. > > Good luck to you Grumpy. Hope there are lots more like you over there. > > Stephen > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >

Please! –George >Steve Davie wrote: >Hi there, Grumpy: >I'm breaking a rule I made last week after >the bantering about on the site of the "T" >word. That was a ride of Titanic >proportions. First time I ever got a red >face from e-mail. >You see, this week I decided to dump >some of the mail off the in box, and read >again a few of your comments in doing so. >So here goes. >I have to tell you that I admire your >balance of common sense and power of >observation and reporting ability on one >side of the equation , and as an essential >offset to keep you sane in this >democratized shrinking world, a little >cynical dark humour to exercise your >capable brain where the world lets us all >down. >I gleaned from your musings that you >once were a council member in Orkney. Is >that correct? Assuming that the trip for >you was a little frustrating, did you opt >out? Ever think of giving it another go? >When are your municipal elections, and >how often? >I too spent a time at this art form called >government. When I bucked against the >boring and popular with some of my >ideas, they went over with my council like >a pregnant poll vaulter. Seems all the bad >guys were the best lobby people. Doing >what was right, was usually unpopular. I >became of the opinion that many meeting >would have been more enjoyable with bar >service. Poliiticians around here are either >at sleep at meetings, or at war. >So, Grumpy, why not toss the old hat in >the ring, and colour up the political >landscape on those unique little islands of >ours? I'll help with the buttons and ads. >Hey, at today's rates, I could work the >phones from over here! Maybe someone >in Australia would pitch in too. How could >you beat that? >Hey, when I'm over there I'd love to sit >across a table from you in some quaint >little stone dram well, and eat clams and >exchange experiences and wash it all >down with something wet and intoxicating. >Good luck to you Grumpy. Hope there are >lots more like you over there. >Stephen

The text indicates that they came out from the water, but is it possible they were originally in the Ring and went down to the Loch to get a drink? Pat > Almost a year late, but I've finally posted two pics of the monoliths > found in 2002 by the shore of the Stenness loch. These added weight to > the idea that the stones for Brodgar/Stenness were transported by water > to the 'construction site(s)'. > > http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/brodgar/building.htm > > -- > Sigurd Towrie > Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney > Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com > Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com > Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > >

With respect Juliet I think an opinion made by someone here relating to any Orcadian topic is just fine, it may broaden peoples outlook on the Orcadian way of life and how that is viewed by its people. Kindest Regards Janis p.s. it is Sigurd's job to tell folks off about 'off topic' posts if I am not mistaken! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juliet Marillier" <marill@vianet.net.au> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 12:52 AM Subject: [<orcadia>] Keep to topic please > With greatest respect for members' personal views on life, the universe > and everything, could we please remember to keep posts on topic? I don't > mind a flood of emails about Orkney and all things related, but I don't > have room in my already crowded Inbox for rants on people's pet > political or moral issues. Trees, auroras, history, holidays, great. The > evils of alcohol, out of place here. > > Juliet > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >

Hi Pat and Hi to Grumpy too My Guess is that 'G' lives in or around Stromness and whoever he or she may be takes life there very seriously and has a VERY good point on a lot of the issues raised and I agree with many of them!!!!!! Janis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grumpy" <grumpy_in_orkney@btinternet.com> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 6:30 PM Subject: [<orcadia>] Re: [] seasons greetings! Good evening Pat, Who am I ?, a very good question and one that I often ask myself. I used to be the X that appeared on the Ballot Paper when voting in what I hoped would be a councilor that would inject some common sense at Council Meetings when it came to making major decisions that would directly effect the good people of Orkney. Alas over the years I soon discovered that being an X was a futile existence, so I gave up that identity. I then thought about becoming a farmer and living off the fat of the land, and should times ever get hard, I could run to the council and shout "I am a poor farmer", the council would then find limitless funds to help me out. Unfortunately when I approached the HIE to start me off, there was no funds available, seems as if all the spare cash had been spent to fund long established jewellery firms trips abroad, and £25,000 for marketing, not forgetting the thousands handed out to Salmon Firms. It would appear that the excellent "Dounby Stores" were also given the cold shoulder by the HIE, but every cloud has a silver lining and "Dounby Stores" have more than proved their worth by becoming "Retailer of the Year", thus keeping a vital rural shop in existence. For the time being I am now the voice of the forgotten masses, unfortunately a voice that is lost in the wind, due no doubt to the lack of trees that are very beneficial in reducing wind speed! I wish there could be light at the end of the tunnel, but having just returned from Victoria Street clothed in darkness it would appear that someone has forgotten to switch on the coloured bulbs hanging from the wires Bah humbug. Take care Grumpy -------Original Message------- From: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com Date: 21 November 2003 17:26:39 To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [] seasons greetings! Dear Grumpy, What a very nice note you sent...... Your note describes you to a tee. <grin> Who are you? <g> Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grumpy" <grumpy_in_orkney@btinternet.com> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 8:02 PM Subject: [<orcadia>] seasons greetings! > Bah humbug, the festive season looms once more, another year of coloured > lights bulbs hung on wires from the Head of the Pier to the end of Victoria > Street. I keep hoping that one year the OIC will use a bit more imagination > when it comes decorating the town. Perhaps a visit to Finstown would give > the council a bit of an idea what can be archived. I remember many moons ago > visiting Glasgow as a child and being mesmerised by the dazzling display of > Xmas lights. Admittedly Kirkwall is no Glasgow but for a few thousand pounds > investment a better display could be made. Still I suppose I should not > grumble to much and be thankful for the multi million pound new pier out at > Hatston!!!!! > > Down south many towns decorate the trees with lights, but then again we are > led to believe that trees can't grow in Orkney, perhaps the main reason for > trees not growing is that they need someone to plant them in the first > place! It's said that conifers don't grow because our winters are to wet, so > I suppose the conifers that are growing down the Redland Road in Finstown > and at other localities around Orkney must be a mirage. The climate and > conditions in Orkney are said to be similar to that of the South Island of > New Zealand, in fact some of Orkney's widely planted shrubs are New Zealand > natives and thrive very well. > > Farmers south divide many of their field with mixed native trees/shrubs, not > only does this provide shelter for crops and farm animals it's a haven for > wildlife. If Orkney farmers were to use a small percentage of the thousands > of pound handouts from the goverment and spend it on planting mixed hedging > then the Orkney landscape could be made to look more attractive not to > mention the effect it would have on reducing the wind speed. > > Take care. > > Grumpy > > > > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com

----- Original Message ----- From: "Janis Counsell" <janis@jcounsell.freeserve.co.uk> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] Re: [] seasons greetings! > Hi Pat and Hi to Grumpy too > My Guess is that 'G' lives in or around Stromness and whoever he or she may > be takes life there very seriously and has a VERY good point on a lot of the > issues raised and I agree with many of them!!!!!! > Janis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Grumpy" <grumpy_in_orkney@btinternet.com> > To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 6:30 PM > Subject: [<orcadia>] Re: [] seasons greetings! > > > > Good evening Pat, > > Who am I ?, a very good question and one that I often ask myself. > > I used to be the X that appeared on the Ballot Paper when voting in what I > hoped would be a councilor that would inject some common sense at Council > Meetings when it came to making major decisions that would directly effect > the good people of Orkney. Alas over the years I soon discovered that being > an X was a futile existence, so I gave up that identity. > > I then thought about becoming a farmer and living off the fat of the land, > and should times ever get hard, I could run to the council and shout "I am a > poor farmer", the council would then find limitless funds to help me out. > Unfortunately when I approached the HIE to start me off, there was no funds > available, seems as if all the spare cash had been spent to fund long > established jewellery firms trips abroad, and £25,000 for marketing, not > forgetting the thousands handed out to Salmon Firms. It would appear that > the excellent "Dounby Stores" were also given the cold shoulder by the HIE, > but every cloud has a silver lining and "Dounby Stores" have more than > proved their worth by becoming "Retailer of the Year", thus keeping a vital > rural shop in existence. > > For the time being I am now the voice of the forgotten masses, unfortunately > a voice that is lost in the wind, due no doubt to the lack of trees that are > very beneficial in reducing wind speed! > > I wish there could be light at the end of the tunnel, but having just > returned from Victoria Street clothed in darkness it would appear that > someone has forgotten to switch on the coloured bulbs hanging from the wires > Bah humbug. > > Take care > > Grumpy > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com > Date: 21 November 2003 17:26:39 > To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [] seasons greetings! > > Dear Grumpy, > > What a very nice note you sent...... Your note describes you to a tee. > <grin> Who are you? <g> > > Pat > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Grumpy" <grumpy_in_orkney@btinternet.com> > To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 8:02 PM > Subject: [<orcadia>] seasons greetings! > > > > Bah humbug, the festive season looms once more, another year of coloured > > lights bulbs hung on wires from the Head of the Pier to the end of > Victoria > > Street. I keep hoping that one year the OIC will use a bit more > imagination > > when it comes decorating the town. Perhaps a visit to Finstown would give > > the council a bit of an idea what can be archived. I remember many moons > ago > > visiting Glasgow as a child and being mesmerised by the dazzling display > of > > Xmas lights. Admittedly Kirkwall is no Glasgow but for a few thousand > pounds > > investment a better display could be made. Still I suppose I should not > > grumble to much and be thankful for the multi million pound new pier out > at > > Hatston!!!!! > > > > Down south many towns decorate the trees with lights, but then again we > are > > led to believe that trees can't grow in Orkney, perhaps the main reason > for > > trees not growing is that they need someone to plant them in the first > > place! It's said that conifers don't grow because our winters are to wet, > so > > I suppose the conifers that are growing down the Redland Road in Finstown > > and at other localities around Orkney must be a mirage. The climate and > > conditions in Orkney are said to be similar to that of the South Island of > > New Zealand, in fact some of Orkney's widely planted shrubs are New > Zealand > > natives and thrive very well. > > > > Farmers south divide many of their field with mixed native trees/shrubs, > not > > only does this provide shelter for crops and farm animals it's a haven for > > wildlife. If Orkney farmers were to use a small percentage of the > thousands > > of pound handouts from the goverment and spend it on planting mixed > hedging > > then the Orkney landscape could be made to look more attractive not to > > mention the effect it would have on reducing the wind speed. > > > > Take care. > > > > Grumpy > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >

> By the way, IS there a link to the new library design? I've spent many hours in the old Kirkwall library, not to mention the tiny one in Stromness, and have happy memories of both. > http://www.orkneylibrary.org.uk/

Personally, I think some recent posts have considerably livened up the discussion, and cast some real light on life in Orkney as it is lived now, and not just viewed by archaeologists and tourists. Grumpy, I share both your pessimism and your idealism. Peggy

What me a romantic, bah humbug, I prefer to think of myself as an idealist and a dreamer. When I said I would have liked to live in Victorian times, I was referring to the fact that the architecture of old Kirkwall would still be visible and not hidden by ugly grey-white dashing. The legacy of the Victorians is still alive and well in Orkney, rich land owners, poverty, low wages etc, and as for health care unless you have the money to go private then for some illnesses you can have a long wait for treatment. A trip around any of Orkney's parish's will show lots of old traditional cottages going to wreck and ruin. I think it would be money well spent if these properties could be restored to their formal glory and sold at knockdown prices to those on low wages. If farmers were so strapped for cash these old houses would have been sold ages ago, the fact that farmers are quite content to see these old houses stand in a state of dereliction in their open fields speaks for it's self. I'll throw this in for debate!, how about turning Orkney and it's contents into a National Park!, a sort of well manicured Disney World. Take care Grumpy -------Original Message------- From: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com Date: 25 November 2003 07:11:07 To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [] Romanticizing the Past I don't know what will happen in the 21st century, but regardless of unsightly architecture, I can't imagine that there has actually been a better time to live in Orkney than the latter part of the 20th century. Though I've only spent weeks there, rather than years, and all of it in the 70s, I would not have traded the comforts of indoor plumbing, clean sheets, convenient meals, and the ability to travel further than a few miles from one's home (as most Victorians did not - unless they were permanent exiles) for a picturesque life that was still likely to be short, closed-in, and with few options beyond the scrabble for existence. The sky, the sea, and the shapes of the land are there to be enjoyed, as they have always been, and whatever one may think of the "intensity" of living a short but colourful life, most people would probably prefer to dream about the links with their ancestors without having to endure early death in childbirth or from rotten teeth, or a long winte! r penned in with one's animals. I would have thought the series "Victorian House" would have dispelled once and for all the idea that the Victorian life was anything but a long struggle, at least for women, and generally for all but the most privileged of either sex. That said, the Victorians were probably the "greatest generation(s)" for the immense strides they made in literacy and sobriety (the statistics are similar - from almost universal drunkenness among the lower classes and 10% literacy at the beginning of the era, to 90% literacy and an average of 10% alcoholism at the end), the schools and hospitals that they founded, and generally their almost inconceivable determination to improve themselves and society. If we could apply half their energy, self-sacrifice and idealism to our modern problems, it would be wonderful. As to Orcadian architecture, I would love to see it retain the colors of the land - the pale greens, greys and blues - and perhaps evolve into something a bit more free-form and with a low profile on the land. Skara Brae, as I recall, had many curves. If I were an architect, imagining homes for Orkney, I would put in winding walks, sheltered from the wind, linking low, comfortable dwellings, with all those cozy old features of recessed shelves and beds re-imagined for comfort and convenience - a kind of new Craftsman movement. By the way, IS there a link to the new library design? I've spent many hours in the old Kirkwall library, not to mention the tiny one in Stromness, and have happy memories of both. Peggy Stone San Diego, California To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com

Fair greetings to all readers, Call me self opinionated, an old moan or whatever, but I know what I like and I know what's right and what's wrong. But the whole culture and uniqueness of the beloved Islands will be lost in the next few decades unless a fit and proper planning policy is put into place to preserve what remains of what to me Orkney is all about. I know we must move with the times, but great care should be taken and attention to detail is vital. When ever possible any new buildings of major size should be in keeping with the traditional Orkney stone, that way they will blend into the surroundings and not stick out like a sore thumb. I believe that tourist would like to see the same stone used at Skara Brae still being used in Orkney today. I wonder how many of Orkney's children have yet to visit places like Skara Brae etc. For families on low income this would be an impossibility as the entrance fee is beyond their means. Of course they could always go to the multi-million pound new library and read about it and see pictures of the site! These ancient sites are every Orcadians heritage, it's our roots, places where communities worked for the common good. No one seems to want wind farms, but I think we need to realise we must have them as a clean form of energy. They may not look nice, but would you rather have a polluted atmosphere?. I enjoyed a rare step back in time at the week-end, when I paid a visit to the up stairs of Wm Shearers in Victoria Street. How lovely to see the old wooden floors and beams, a real coal fire and old shop memorabilia, with all the Xmas goods tastefully displayed, you could imagine yourself back in Victorian times. If I could chose a period in time that I could re-live in Orkney it would be Victorian times so I could savour the old stone buildings before they became covered in plaster and grey-white dashing (yuk). Take care Grumpy -------Original Message------- From: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com Date: 24 November 2003 21:03:46 To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [] Re: Stephen's take on The Forests of Orkney Dear George, Nature's great architect, as far as Orkney is concerned, is man. Apart from the small detail of the basic climate and geological features, clay deposits and the flooded landscape ( from 10,000 years ago ice melt) man has dictated, mainly without intention, every aspect of the Orkney that you know today. From the blanket peat bogs formation 3000 years ago to the entirely (farmers) man made green fields of the 20th century man has caused the pre-conditions that determined what things now look like. As a point of note you should be aware that organic farming is almost non-existent here. Subsidy drunk Farmers post war have and still do use extensive agro-chemical methods to force grass crops out of the land to maximise stock quotas. Mono-culture is the name of the game. Extensive land ownership by the RSPB added to large areas that are impossible to farm are what protects the "natural environment". A visit to the main part of Stronsay (excepting Rothiesholm), which by its nature (flat and rolling) shows what farmers would do if possible - over cultivated and mono-grass fields to the shoreline, very little natural environment at all. Re-establishing sustainable scrub/woodland and wildflower meadows is complex, long term and difficult.but is certainly, in my opinion, a more "natural" direction to go than species poor subsidy driven grassland. Sorry Charles, but I agree wholeheartedly with the observations on the new library. Splendid, and unusually for Orkney not from the big byre school of architecture, it may be, but it also represents the seemingly limitless money available to turn Kirkwall into a poor version of Inverness, with all the added benefits of one way systems, vandalism, litter and over centralised population in a nodal conurbation. Do our overseas cousins know of the true danger to our big sky country ? Not a few trees, but the snorting sounds of the porcine big landowners heading for the trough of Windfarm cash that is appearing as a deafening roar stage left ? The poor befuddled council seemingly incapable of doing anything to stop random turbines littering the land ? regards, Simon

I don't know what will happen in the 21st century, but regardless of unsightly architecture, I can't imagine that there has actually been a better time to live in Orkney than the latter part of the 20th century. Though I've only spent weeks there, rather than years, and all of it in the '70s, I would not have traded the comforts of indoor plumbing, clean sheets, convenient meals, and the ability to travel further than a few miles from one's home (as most Victorians did not - unless they were permanent exiles) for a picturesque life that was still likely to be short, closed-in, and with few options beyond the scrabble for existence. The sky, the sea, and the shapes of the land are there to be enjoyed, as they have always been, and whatever one may think of the "intensity" of living a short but colorful life, most people would probably prefer to dream about the links with their ancestors without having to endure early death in childbirth or from rotten teeth, or a long winte! r penned in with one's animals. I would have thought the series "Victorian House" would have dispelled once and for all the idea that the Victorian life was anything but a long struggle, at least for women, and generally for all but the most privileged of either sex. That said, the Victorians were probably the "greatest generation(s)" for the immense strides they made in literacy and sobriety (the statistics are similar - from almost universal drunkenness among the lower classes and 10% literacy at the beginning of the era, to 90% literacy and an average of 10% alcoholism at the end), the schools and hospitals that they founded, and generally their almost inconceivable determination to improve themselves and society. If we could apply half their energy, self-sacrifice and idealism to our modern problems, it would be wonderful. As to Orcadian architecture, I would love to see it retain the colors of the land - the pale greens, greys and blues - and perhaps evolve into something a bit more free-form and with a low profile on the land. Skara Brae, as I recall, had many curves. If I were an architect, imagining homes for Orkney, I would put in winding walks, sheltered from the wind, linking low, comfortable dwellings, with all those cozy old features of recessed shelves and beds re-imagined for comfort and convenience - a kind of new Craftsman movement. By the way, IS there a link to the new library design? I've spent many hours in the old Kirkwall library, not to mention the tiny one in Stromness, and have happy memories of both. Peggy Stone San Diego, California

In a message dated 11/24/03 7:51:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, grumpy_in_orkney@btinternet.com writes: > f I could chose a period in time that I could re-live in Orkney it would be > Victorian times I've been thinking about Grumpy's choice.Others have said similar things... Not for me at all! My Orcadian great-grandmother died at age 21 (1883), 5 days after her twin babies were born. If not for modern medicine I would have died at age 22 after MY twins were born (1964) (except that they were both breech, so they would have died as well). As romantic as the Victorian age may appear, I am happy to be an adult in the early 21st century..... Anne in Ardmore (PA)

> Silly me! Im in north wales. Unfortunately not mega rich- I cant blieve how > expensive the planes are. Im finding it very difficult to find connecting > planes from liverpool to wherever to kirkwall. > I will try national express- thankyou! > There's links to the websites of the main travel operators (plane, bus, rail & boat) on the Orkney Tourist Board website. http://www.visitorkney.com/getting.html The only word of warning is - remember the weather can be bad at that time of year, so be prepared in case you get stuck anywhere. It hopefully won't happen, but it's better to be prepared. Hopefully it'll be good weather and you'll have a great trip. Fiona Orkney

Dear George, Nature's great architect, as far as Orkney is concerned, is man. Apart from the small detail of the basic climate and geological features, clay deposits and the flooded landscape ( from 10,000 years ago ice melt) man has dictated, mainly without intention, every aspect of the Orkney that you know today. From the blanket peat bogs formation 3000 years ago to the entirely (farmers) man made green fields of the 20th century man has caused the pre-conditions that determined what things now look like. As a point of note you should be aware that organic farming is almost non-existent here. Subsidy drunk Farmers post war have and still do use extensive agro-chemical methods to force grass crops out of the land to maximise stock quotas. Mono-culture is the name of the game. Extensive land ownership by the RSPB added to large areas that are impossible to farm are what protects the "natural environment". A visit to the main part of Stronsay (excepting Rothiesholm), which by its nature (flat and rolling) shows what farmers would do if possible - over cultivated and mono-grass fields to the shoreline, very little natural environment at all. Re-establishing sustainable scrub/woodland and wildflower meadows is complex, long term and difficult.but is certainly, in my opinion, a more "natural" direction to go than species poor subsidy driven grassland. Sorry Charles, but I agree wholeheartedly with the observations on the new library. Splendid, and unusually for Orkney not from the big byre school of architecture, it may be, but it also represents the seemingly limitless money available to turn Kirkwall into a poor version of Inverness, with all the added benefits of one way systems, vandalism, litter and over centralised population in a nodal conurbation. Do our overseas cousins know of the true danger to our big sky country ? Not a few trees, but the snorting sounds of the porcine big landowners heading for the trough of Windfarm cash that is appearing as a deafening roar stage left ? The poor befuddled council seemingly incapable of doing anything to stop random turbines littering the land ? regards, Simon ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Coghill" <gcog@webtv.net> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 8:53 PM Subject: [<orcadia>] Re: Stephen's take on The Forests of Orkney > > --WebTV-Mail-4957-456 > Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit > > > Gentle Reader, > > Perhaps I should give in and adopt the e-message vernacular, peppering > my notes with those little sideways happy faces to avoid offending the > occasional reader who doesn't get irony, but as I mentioned to the love > of my life (whom I met through this list, which I will always be > grateful for), life just isn't worth living if you have to explain your > jokes. What I thought I was driving at was that the wind, the cold, the > salt spray, the general change in the climate of northern Europe over > the past few thousand years, have gotten together and produced a rich, > unique and stunningly beautiful ecosystem in the Orkney Islands, one > that should be toyed with neither by developers nor by well-meaning > people who think every square foot of the Earth should be occupied by > trees. And as far as the birds, bugs and other "critters," they also do > quite well in the heather and grasses that so beautifully cover the > land. I am aware that "landscape too is architecture," and I gave you a > clue to that by mentioning the name of the most famous Landscape > Architect of all time in last night's letter, but do you really believe > that even the designer of the grounds of Blenheim Palace could improve > on the stark magnificence of Orkney as bequeathed us by nature's great > architect? > > Lastly, as a fellow North American, one line in your letter caught my > eye: > > >(Over here, nowdays, huge percentages > >of resources go directly to the natives.) > > Please! > > Good bye, all, and have a pleasant weekend (especially Grumpy). Please > think twice before trying to change a place of rare and subtle beauty > into an artist's conception of what that place may have looked like a > few ages ago. > > George Coghill, > of Orcadian descent, living in Olympia, Washington, USA > > > --WebTV-Mail-4957-456 > Content-Disposition: Inline > Content-Type: Message/RFC822 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit > > Received: from smtpin-3202.bay.webtv.net (209.240.204.227) by > storefull-2177.public.lawson.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Fri, 21 Nov > 2003 07:35:10 -0800 (PST) > Received: from lists2.rootsweb.com (lists2.rootsweb.com [207.40.200.39]) by > smtpin-3202.bay.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with ESMTP id > 05BA7FEC3 for <gcog@webtv.net>; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 07:34:50 -0800 (PST) > Received: (from slist@localhost) by lists2.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) id > hALFQahm029325; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:26:36 -0700 > Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:26:36 -0700 > X-Original-Sender: stephen.davie@sympatico.ca Fri Nov 21 08:26:35 2003 > Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:28:41 -0500 > Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] The Forests of Orkney > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) > From: Steve Davie <stephen.davie@sympatico.ca> > Old-To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In-Reply-To: <5872-3FBDF9A6-46@storefull-2178.public.lawson.webtv.net> > Message-Id: <62E387D6-1C37-11D8-8F8F-0003939E1D4C@sympatico.ca> > X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) > Resent-Message-ID: <T9DF3C.A.nJH.s6iv_@lists2.rootsweb.com> > To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com > Resent-From: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com > Reply-To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com > X-Mailing-List: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/2480 > X-Loop: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com > Precedence: list > Resent-Sender: ORCADIA-L-request@rootsweb.com > X-Brightmail: Message tested, results are inconclusive > > My my my, what have we here? > > With the greatest of respect, are you suggesting, historic evidence > aside, that the creator of this planet didn't ever impose trees some > places on Orkney? Trees aren't a "new age" imposing concept, save and > except for the toxic artificial ones made with oil from the sea off > Orkney and elsewhere. They aren't a threatening foreign concept. > > I too am not a fan of hairclipped hedgrows that by design highlight > extravagant entrances to modern-day castles flaunting unconscionable > consumerism. However, on behalf of grouse, hares, songbirds, various > bugs and other critters, those historic Orkney residents now reduced in > numbers, it is fair for anyone on planet earth to look at this unique > ecosystem and compare the current form against what was years ago. Not > an unhealthy exercise. Look at how you oogle over the 3000 year old > architecture. Well, landscape too is architecture and worth examining. > Over here in gadget-guzzling America we haven't done that sort of > evaluating enough, obviously. > > You know, your Orkney yesteryear theme is a great idea for Disneyland! > Kind of an elaboration of their "Pirates of the Caribbean." I envision > a brightly decorated honey coloured wooden vessel on an invisible > track, traveling at 9.3 kph for 19 minutes on a circuitous route > through stone crofts and bleating sheep, attacked occasionally by > sword-wielding bearded Vikings, with screaming women with kicking feet, > flopped over their broad shoulders, their blood curdling cries > amplified in perfect digital stereo over speakers hidden from view by, > oops, trees. And judging by the pumping of "Orkney, the Tourist > Destination", if you aren't careful, you are small enough that you > could become a theme park! Seems like it is close enough to the UK > mainland that it becomes a smog-free affordable summertime retreat for > city-weary Londoners who's overtaxed incomes don't stretch to the Yukon > or south Africa. Think that's not a serious threat? Go to any of the > islands in the world from Malaysia through the South Pacific and the > islands England exploited such as Tortola the British Virgins, > Jamaica,Turks and Cacos, Barbados and countless others. Islands are > fragile, often complex but restricted (waste disposal, drinking water, > fuel,vegetation) and individually unique. Single malt instead of rum. > Oil instead of gold. That's why examining what was and comparing it to > what is becomes valid and natural. The more natural islands are, the > more unique in this exploited shrinking world. In this regard, Orkney > has benefited from a situation where the current population is less > than it was in 1750. Less people--less pressure. Magnificent. Unique. > Breathtaking. A population in reverse. > > Time may well be nigh to prepare for post-oil Orkney. Don't see much > in the way of significant cultural contributions to Orkney from those > international corporate giants who vacuum the black gold from beneath > your fish. (Over here, nowdays, huge percentages of resources go > directly to the natives.) Course, the demands for deductible > gratuitous expenditures have more political propellent on the U.K. > mainland. That's where the numbers are, and the political benefits. So > why contribute to Orkney in any long-term meaningful way if you aren't > even asked? It would be of no benefit to mainland political forces and > needed federal approvals, approvals to dig deeper and longer for more > oil at more risk. Better the oil giant should build, with Orkney oil > money, a football stadium in Manchester. I mean, did you ever ask > yourself how politically impotent your elected representation of > twenty five thousand shrinking fragmented islanders, unconnected by > roads, must be in London or Edinburgh? Sortof like a British > Newfoundland. They have oil beneath codfish as well. And their local > input matters not one iota. But they get even provincial with tax laws, > laid out before sea oil was discovered. They are on the edge of change > that may not be good. > > Thing to do is slip around the Globe a few times and have a current-day > peek. What they don't want you to see is seldom on the internet. Gota > buy the ticket. Lots of chainsaws out there(Brasil, Peru, Canada). > Lotsa future demand for oil (China). Lotsa traffic to Disneyworld! > > So what caught my attention? You say let the trees fall where they may? > I say, let the trees grow where they once fell--even in Orkney! Hats > off to the chap who responded that he is planting 25 hectares this > spring in Orkney. That is a positive, admirable and unselfish move, and > thank goodness likely representative of great, responsible Orkney > stewardship. Stewardship essential for survival as a cultural pearl in > an unspoiled natural setting. And he is paying the lot out of his own > pocket. Bravo! > > Gee, it's friday:..........Have a nice weekend folks..........Stephen > > > On Friday, November 21, 2003, at 06:40 AM, George Coghill wrote: > > > > > My Dear Friends, > > > > Is there a movement afoot, led by some modern incarnation of Capability > > Brown, to turn Orkney into a well-manicured new age conception of the > > forest primeval, a manor park rather than one of the most naturally > > beautiful landscapes on the planet? Sigurd, don't let them take my > > rugged rocky silhouettes softened and given a barely tangible subtlety > > by the heather and other shrubbage (not a word, I know, but I like it). > > The odd tree or grove, tough survivors as were our Norse ancestors, are > > admirable and beautiful, but the thought of disfiguring the openness of > > the land with hedgerows and other major plantings makes me a touch > > queasy. I smell a conspiracy, and I think Disney must be behind it, > > turning Orkney into an American style theme park. Or perhaps a German > > Uber-Konglomerate, to turn ancient Orca into Deutschneyland! > > > > Let the trees fall where they may. > > > > Your overseas cousin, > > George Coghill > > > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > > word > > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > > --WebTV-Mail-4957-456-- > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >

Silly me! Im in north wales. Unfortunately not mega rich- I cant blieve how expensive the planes are. Im finding it very difficult to find connecting planes from liverpool to wherever to kirkwall. I will try national express- thankyou! ----Original Message Follows---- From: Mike Clouston <mike@mikeclouston.co.uk> Reply-To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] getting to orkney Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:18:10 +0000 Erin Robinson wrote: >Hello! >I desperately want to see orkney this christmas, but can only get the 15th >to the 20th of december off work. >I cant drive, so trains/coaches will have to be used, including planes or >ferries. >Can anyone help with some info? >without a car, how can I get to scrabster this time of year, does anyone >know? is there a train station relatively near? >Please help me! I need my orkney fix!! >Thanks, from Erin. Erin, You don't say where you are travelling from. Certainly there is a train station at Thurso, just a couple of miles from Scrabster. I travelled from Cornwall to Scrabster by National Express coach in September - cheap and on time! The coach took me from Cornwall to Glasgow, Glasgow to Inverness and Inverness to Scrabster. There was an hour or so's wait in Scrabster for the Hamnavoe ferry to Stromness. On the return journey the coach was waiting at Scrabster for the 9 a.m. ferry from Stromness when it arrived at 10.30 a.m. You can always fly if you are mega-rich :-) Safe journey and enjoy your holiday. ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com from a small, smarmy, smart, smashing, smiling, smirking, smooching, smooth, smothering, smug, smitten, smevil, smental, smoozy Smerin (Smez, to her friends) from Smegypt simagining Smaustralia and the smocean. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

Erin Robinson wrote: > Hello! > I desperately want to see orkney this christmas, but can only get the > 15th to the 20th of december off work. > I cant drive, so trains/coaches will have to be used, including planes > or ferries. > Can anyone help with some info? > without a car, how can I get to scrabster this time of year, does > anyone know? is there a train station relatively near? > Please help me! I need my orkney fix!! > Thanks, from Erin. Erin, You don't say where you are travelling from. Certainly there is a train station at Thurso, just a couple of miles from Scrabster. I travelled from Cornwall to Scrabster by National Express coach in September - cheap and on time! The coach took me from Cornwall to Glasgow, Glasgow to Inverness and Inverness to Scrabster. There was an hour or so's wait in Scrabster for the Hamnavoe ferry to Stromness. On the return journey the coach was waiting at Scrabster for the 9 a.m. ferry from Stromness when it arrived at 10.30 a.m. You can always fly if you are mega-rich :-) Safe journey and enjoy your holiday.

Hello! I desperately want to see orkney this christmas, but can only get the 15th to the 20th of december off work. I cant drive, so trains/coaches will have to be used, including planes or ferries. Can anyone help with some info? without a car, how can I get to scrabster this time of year, does anyone know? is there a train station relatively near? Please help me! I need my orkney fix!! Thanks, from Erin. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband

<Drunkenness among Orkney teenagers/adults is a major issue, often highlighted by the local press, TV and radio.> I take your point, Grumpy. Clearly you feel strongly on this issue. Perhaps I misread your comments as more of a personal crusade against alcohol? I agree with the importance of addressing substance abuse issues in young (and older) people, in Orkney as anywhere. The equivalent here in Australia would be high rates of substance abuse by youth in remote country towns. Juliet

Thanks Jim: Don't drink that much that the vintage price matters. Yep, great site. Say, you wouldn't have a spare John Elroy signed jersey would you? Stephen On Friday, November 21, 2003, at 07:52 PM, JHDBDRIVER@aol.com wrote: > Stephen - > > Somewhere & sometime we must meet - I'd sure like to know someone rich > enough > to partake of the 18 year old stuff and become as delightful as you > appear to > be - how about at an Orkney wedding - it would be a grand time to meet > and > discuss our apparent love affair with our ancesteral islands, the > islands left > over from the creation of Heaven... Sigurd, again, thanks for the > site and I > apologize for not insisting that we go for a pint in 1999 when we met > in > Kirkwall on the 3rd or 4th floor of the Orcadian - I'll always regret > that > opportunity.... > > Jim D > > Denver, CO > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >