(Redirected by "Sigurd Towrie" <sigurd@orkneyjar.com>) *********** BEGIN REDIRECTED MESSAGE *********** The one thing we don't get here in winter is much daylight time, saving or otherwise. Especially when like today it is overcast. Grand weather otherwise though. Pity so few visit in the quiet time, but all our visitors seem to prefer the summer crowds. -- Charles Tait Photographic Limited, Kelton, St Ola, Orkney, UK KW15 1TR Tel 01856 873738 Fax 01856 875313 Mobile 07785 220269 All outgoing and incoming mail is checked by Norton Antivirus 2003 email charles.tait@zetnet.co.uk website http://www.charles-tait.co.uk

Thanks to those who asked to peek by e-mail at Jane Glue's painting of the old farmhouse at Grimbister. She did a wonderful job. It is now the home of Grimbister cheese.( I am ordering some of the cheese so we will see how it travels. It has a shelf life of about 30 days, like raw beers.) Jane has a studio in Kirkwall and a great website. Now then Sig, I have watched the cookie chat finally crumble on the site, and I can see both sides, liberal and conservative, democrat and republican. I looked up your website and reviewed the instructions, and I can truly appreciate the frustrations you go through to preserve quality. Someone who doesn't like a message will always shoot the messenger, and that would be you I am sure. I further don't understand why we aren't paying some little amount to belong to this " discussing society". Perhaps you underestimate how we (many from afar) all feel about your great site, in short, it's value. The surviving tree in Orkney is the willow. It bends to the wind when winds are fierce, then bounces back to normal as the wind subsides. A willow never snaps. Don't get too whacked out of shape over cookies. Cookies are a highly personalized, emotional, and very timely Christmas issue, and an expression of pureness of heart from all those wonderful moms and wives out there. Sometimes it pays to be a willow, even if you are an oak by nature. As a Borwick descendant as well, I just know that family had both the oak strength and the willow flexibility, and the wisdom to apply them as needed or they never would have survived, here or over there. Your strength is in your roots, Laddie! For my part, I'll stay on topic, when I can figure out what those might be, save and except I should like your blessing to pass along an "Orkney Oriented" Christmas wish, before Xmas, to those faceless friends I have encountered on your wonderful site while "discussing." I would have done this on a one to one but my heartless service provider wiped out my mail files while "fixing" my hookup. Thus said, would there be anything wrong with some Christmas love and cheer cross-pollinating on your site? The "chatting" can be done one to one without irritating others. I figured that out too late it seems. So we could have the best of both worlds! We all get too soon old and too late smart. Submitted "gingerly" and with the greatest of respect; Stephen (I accept stale cookies in the mail!)

Yes it's 5 hours to Eastern Time, 6 hours difference from UK to Central, etc. But, beware, the UK goes to summer time a week before the US goes on daylight savings. I've twice lost that hour over there and then lost it again the next week when I got home. But you only get it back once in the fall! Karen

In a message dated 12/9/03 6:46:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, charles.tait@zetnet.co.uk writes: > the Ba' in Kirkwall on Xmas and New Year. I have read many references but still do not have a grasp of the .... game? event? Men only? Anyone? Please describe! Anne

In a message dated 12/9/03 5:31:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, charles.tait@zetnet.co.uk writes: > The one thing we don't get here in winter is much daylight time, saving > or otherwise. Especially when like today it is overcast. Grand weather > otherwise though. Pity so few visit in the quiet time, but all our > visitors seem to prefer the summer crowds. This is one would-be traveller who does NOT enjoy crowds. Tell me what your favorite non-tourist time of year is in Orkney, please. In a couple of hours I will be sitting with a financial advisor who will be telling me just when I can retire (I have been working at the same place, literally, for just over 30 years, and am finally losing patience and stamina). I know that a great time to visit Italy and France is March and April, So what about Orkney? I don't mind a bit of rain, but would like to ba able to do some walking. Anne in SE Pennsylvania

G'day Lance, Isn't' Hoy Orkney? Pat <Ohio> USA P.S. Recycled grass in the form of beef there in Orkney...... Great concept! I did notice that sheep weren't near as prevalent there as they were on Mainland Scotland. I think the Orcadians are doing something good there. I heard that the Scots get a govt. subsidy for so many sheep. Does this occur in Orkney? > Both my mother's and father's families are/were Groundwater's from the Orkneys. One group from the Hoy area and the other from Orkney. Or so I've been told. Typing with 13 fingers has always been a snap; but, I'm sure there's no correlation.

Dear list members, My grandfather, who was born in Stenness in 1885, told me that he and his brothers and sisters would go out on New Year's Eve to nearby houses, knock at their doors and say, >Hogmanay, Hogmanay, >Gie (sp?) us your white bread and none o' >your grey. Does such a custom still exist? I didn't succeed in finding it in the Orkneyjar site, but I know they also celebrate Hogmanay across the Pentland Firth, so perhaps it wasn't sufficiently Orkney-specific to make the cut. Regarding the recycled grass, my cousin Doddie Coghill was rightly very proud of the delicious grass-fed beef he raised and fed me when I visited his family at their farm in Birsay. I believe his son, Terry, still raises prize winners. Regards, George Coghill Olympia, Washington USA

Hi there I wonder what your hat looks like Sigurd, somehow I can't remember ever seeing you in one, or under one in this case. The relevance of ginger snaps is simple to me - my step mum made really good ones, and my father still does so if anyone wants the recipe.... Sadly not much sun at Maeshowe, although Saturday was great. At least the technology is all working. Personally I think the tree thread is a bit threadbare now. I suggest those who still want to argue should go and read some of the ample literature on the subject of plants in the north. We are all much more partial to reprocessed grass, or rather prime Orkney beef. Sadly cattle would not do well if they only had scrubby trees to eat, which is why we have lots of nice grass. -- Charles Tait Photographic Limited, Kelton, St Ola, Orkney, UK KW15 1TR Tel 01856 873738 Fax 01856 875313 Mobile 07785 220269 All outgoing and incoming mail is checked by Norton Antivirus 2003 email charles.tait@zetnet.co.uk website http://www.charles-tait.co.uk

STRONSAY2@cs.com wrote: >Please tell me the time difference between the eastern seaboard of the US and >Orkney: when I look at my email in the evening, I get darkness and Christmas >lights, so I know it's too late... >Anne (slightly chastened) >who found, aside from the Deerness Cookbook two small stones, one marked "B" >for The Bu, and the other marked "H" for Housebay (both Stronsay) and >imagining bitterwinds in those houses standing bare and unprotected by hedgerows by St >Catherine's and House Bays > > It is now 9 p.m. (almost) GMT here in UK -- Mike Clouston

With the deepest of respect to all readers and listeners (and three cheers to Anne for her ideal solution to hard ginger snaps)!, Don't feel to down hearted Anne and if you feel grumped then join me Grumpy, for there is strength in numbers. I think Anne, if you had said an old Orkney tradition was to dip hard ginger snaps in tea or coffee, then you would had got off the hook, instead of being rebuked by the male fraternity (oh my god will I now be accused of being a feminist)! I sympathise with Sigurd in trying to keep things under control, one minute his hat is on, next minute his hat is off!, which is a sure and certain way to catch a head cold (according to an Orkney tradition) Unfortunately Sigurd certain rules and guide lines are hard to interpret as black and white, grey areas can form (a bit like the OIC's Planning Policy). Sigurd you can never keep all of the people happy all of the time, but for those that are unhappy with some postings, I have the following message - Remember Jesus is not just for Christmas, ( oh my god here comes the bible bashing accusation)!, lets try and be a bit more understanding towards others, and wether you believe in him or not, there is no denying that throughout the course of the last 2,000 years, people with a kind and gentle spirit have shown great kindness and understanding towards others. This religious bit does have something to do with Orkney history (St Magnus etc etc) Take care and God Bless you All, especially Anne. Grumpy PS. Hello Lance, I see you have noticed the lack of trees in Orkney, there are many species of trees that grow well in Orkney even with the salt laded winds. Species such as Acer pseudoplatanus, Sorbus aria, Sorbus aucuparia, many Salix species. Unfortunately there is this old Orkney tradition which states that tree won't grow in Orkney, therefore people don't plant them. The Orkney climate is very similar to the South Islands of New Zealand where trees and shrubs flourish in abundance, in fact many shrubs that grow in Orkney are from New Zealand, planted by more open minded people. Take care Grumpy

So Anne, I think it's 5 hours from EST to Orkney - he sent that at 1:00 pm my time & I'm 3 hrs behind you on the west coast. Charlie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Clouston" <mike@mikeclouston.co.uk> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] Kirkwall's Lights > STRONSAY2@cs.com wrote: > > >Please tell me the time difference between the eastern seaboard of the US and > >Orkney: when I look at my email in the evening, I get darkness and Christmas > >lights, so I know it's too late... > >Anne (slightly chastened) > >who found, aside from the Deerness Cookbook two small stones, one marked "B" > >for The Bu, and the other marked "H" for Housebay (both Stronsay) and > >imagining bitterwinds in those houses standing bare and unprotected by hedgerows by St > >Catherine's and House Bays > > > > > It is now 9 p.m. (almost) GMT here in UK > -- > Mike Clouston > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >

Lance Groundwater wrote: >Hi Mike, I guess this is your list? I've only been on it one day and got >8 emails having to do with some kind of argument about cookies. > >Before I opt out of this list....was this exchange typical of what I'll be >receiving? > >Our daughter was there this (Stromness) weekend and we're excited to hear >what she thought. I looked at the pictures on your website and couldn't >help but wonder why you folks don't plant some trees. > >thanks, Lance Groundwater > Valdez > United State of Alaska > Hello Lance, Welcome to the list! No! It's not *mine" - Sigurd Towrie is the *listowner*. Sigurd has a wonderful web site about Orkney, its history and folklore and lots more at http://www.orkneyjar.com. Enjoy. Don't opt out - stick around, please. You'll learn a lot about Orkney and Orcadians. We're not always arguing about biscuits, or cookies as you call them. You'll find the archives going back to 1998 at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ORCADIA - some good reading there. You'll also learn why there aren't many trees - too much salt in the windy atmosphere. We do grow good grass though, on which the best beef cattle in the world are raised. -- Mike Clouston

Here's a good place to look for time questions. http://www.worldtimeserver.com/ You never have to try and remember or check for daylight time etc...they do it for you. lg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Petersen" <charliep@olypen.com> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] Kirkwall's Lights > So Anne, I think it's 5 hours from EST to Orkney - he sent that at 1:00 pm > my time & I'm 3 hrs behind you on the west coast. > Charlie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Clouston" <mike@mikeclouston.co.uk> > To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] Kirkwall's Lights > > > > STRONSAY2@cs.com wrote: > > > > >Please tell me the time difference between the eastern seaboard of the US > and > > >Orkney: when I look at my email in the evening, I get darkness and > Christmas > > >lights, so I know it's too late... > > >Anne (slightly chastened) > > >who found, aside from the Deerness Cookbook two small stones, one marked > "B" > > >for The Bu, and the other marked "H" for Housebay (both Stronsay) and > > >imagining bitterwinds in those houses standing bare and unprotected by > hedgerows by St > > >Catherine's and House Bays > > > > > > > > It is now 9 p.m. (almost) GMT here in UK > > -- > > Mike Clouston > > > > > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >

Please tell me the time difference between the eastern seaboard of the US and Orkney: when I look at my email in the evening, I get darkness and Christmas lights, so I know it's too late... Anne (slightly chastened) who found, aside from the Deerness Cookbook two small stones, one marked "B" for The Bu, and the other marked "H" for Housebay (both Stronsay) and imagining bitterwinds in those houses standing bare and unprotected by hedgerows by St Catherine's and House Bays

STRONSAY2@cs.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/8/03 6:22:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, >sigurd@orkneyjar.com writes: > > >>For the third time, could we keep postings to this mailing list on topic. >> >> >> > If food is not part of our heritage (and it started with a DEERNESS >cookbook), as well as a basic part of our daily life, then what is? >Do Orcadians only eat oarcakes and old potted hough? > >Maybe we should post an outline of what is permitted to discuss? > >Anne (feeling grumped upon) > > > Anne, When I joined this group five years ago, Sigurd sent me a "welcome" letter at the end of which were listed six rules. The first of these rules began thus:- "This list is for the discussion of Orcadian tradition, folklore, heritage, history and generally anything to do with Orkney." With all due respect, how you eat your gingersnaps does not come into any of these categories in my opinion. Best wishes -- Mike Clouston

Grumpy, thanks for the note. I suspected that the idea that trees wouldn't grow there was worng. For one thing, I believe that prior to the Iron Age all of Great Britain was covered with trees and that our forefathers saw fit to cut them down for the smelters. Anyway, I was going to say that here in Alaska we have a tree called the Sitka Spruce that would grow in a keg of salt...they grow in rocks on storm swept beaches where you wouldn't think a limpet would be able to live. We're coming over there next year. Let me know if you need some seeds. Best, lg > Grumpy > > PS. > > Hello Lance, > > I see you have noticed the lack of trees in Orkney, there are many species > of trees that grow well in Orkney even with the salt laded winds. Species > such as Acer pseudoplatanus, Sorbus aria, Sorbus aucuparia, many Salix > species. Unfortunately there is this old Orkney tradition which states that > tree won't grow in Orkney, therefore people don't plant them. The Orkney > climate is very similar to the South Islands of New Zealand where trees and > shrubs flourish in abundance, in fact many shrubs that grow in Orkney are > from New Zealand, planted by more open minded people. > > Take care > > Grumpy > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >

On 08/12/03 at 08:19 STRONSAY2@cs.com wrote: > If food is not part of our heritage (and it started with a DEERNESS >cookbook), as well as a basic part of our daily life, then what is? Yes it started with a Deerness cookbook but how is the topic of gingersnaps relevant to a mailing list created specifically for the discussion of: "Orkney, Orcadian traditions and heritage." I for one already receive volumes of junk mail in my inbox and would like to think of the material reaching the orcadia list as being informative at least. When the list was created it was decided to be strict with the posting rules in order to provide interesting posts from members. The emphasis is on "discussion". It is not and was never meant to be a chat room. Sorry you feel "grumped upon" but you should try receiving mail from irate listmembers (of which there are over 300 now) about irrelevant postings. <official hat off> -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com

My apologies to you all for this mornings post. I thought it was just going to Mike. My name is Lance Groundwater, I live in Alaska. Both my mother's and father's families are/were Groundwater's from the Orkneys. One group from the Hoy area and the other from Orkney. Or so I've been told. Typing with 13 fingers has always been a snap; but, I'm sure there's no correlation. My initial interest is in some of the place names that my family is from. Places that have ceased to exist, I see. For what it's worth, our daughter is in Stromness as I write this, seeing all she can. I see in the guidelines that this is not for genealogy. That's something I'm very interested in; but, as we've done a lot of research and traced our family's back to Thag the kelp picker...there's not much of that left to do. If there are any Groundwaters out there on this list, I'd be pleased to hear from you via personal email. Later, lg

For the third time, could we keep postings to this mailing list on topic. Thank you. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com

On 07/12/03 at 22:29 Tammy wrote: > How do people in Orkney celebrate Christmas? What are some old traditions? See http://www.orkneyjar.com/tradition/yule -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com