robert@scarth.net wrote: >I think the reason is practical: sandy soil = easy digging. > >Robert > > >On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:40:53 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), "Grumpy" wrote: > > > >>Evening greetings, >> >>Can anyone throw any light on why so many (although not all) of Orkney's >> >> >old > > >>graveyards are very close to the sea shore. >> >> > > > > Certainly the case in Stromness, built on the side of Brinkie's Brae which is solid granite. Out at Warbeth where the kirkyard is it's nice and sandy. Fine and easy to dig, although a bit of shoring up is usually necessary. -- Mike Clouston

Evening greetings, Can anyone throw any light on why so many (although not all) of Orkney's old graveyards are very close to the sea shore. Is this some old Orkney/Scottish tradition that the final resting place should be so close to the sea. I did toy with the idea that it may have connections with the Vikings when they used to place the dead on boats and set them on fire. And because the early Stromness settlers had nicked all the trees for their Ba games, that due to the lack of wood, the dead were then buried close to the sea. Or is this just one of Grumpy's flights of fantasy! Take care Grumpy

Greeting All, The Ba, a fine old Orkney tradition and sure to make the hearts of dedicated followers miss a beat. I am very unbiased towards the game and show no favouritism to either The Uppies or The Doonies. Could I just add one thing before I go - COME ON THE UPPIES, THEY ARE THE BOYS Take care Grumpy

Hello Nora, I may be wrong but I don't think you are writing from Orkney, in which case that is not an Orkney grown willow messing your yard. An Orkney willow is like an Orcadian, strong, never yielding under pressure, ready to brave the fiercest storm, feet firmly planted, but with a soft centre. Take care Grumpy -------Original Message------- From: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com Date: 10 December 2003 11:00:52 To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [] Old Farm House, Grimbister, and Snapping over Ginger In a message dated 12/9/2003 9:29:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, stephen.davie@sympatico.ca writes: A willow never snaps. Then why do I have branches all over my yard after a storm? Nora To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com

Hello George, Further to your question - Is Hogmanay just an excuse for excessive drunkenness and bad behaviour, as is usually the case for our own New Year's Eve parties in the states? Not really my idea of a good time, but what do I know? No, Hogmanay is not just an excuse for excessive drunkenness and bad behaviour. It's a problem every week-end, especially amongst the teenagers, but never mind once Kirkwall's grand New Library costing 3.5 million opens that sort of behaviour will all stop won't it! These drunken kids will be flocking there in their droves getting drunk on Orkney Heritage, Tradition, Folklore etc, A few years ago when Kirkwall's new Leisure Centre was opened at Picky, kids petitioned for a Bowling Alley to be installed as well, but the OIC in there superior wisdom ignored their call. It then took a private individual to open a Bowling Alley instead, and of course as wisdom goes the Orkney Licensing Board granted a drinks license at the Bowling Alley for the teenagers to have a dram or a pint while they bowled. I hope I don't paint to black a picture on Orkney teenagers, as not all are inclined towards bad behaviour and drunkenness, but any behaviour of this kind amongst the young cannot be tolerated, they are the future of Orkney at the end of the day. I am sure the local constabulary will have the problem under control shortly when their new Police Station opens, I wonder if they have more cells than the old Police Station so as to keep on top of the increasing problem. Take care Grumpy -------Original Message------- From: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com Date: 10 December 2003 13:13:06 To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [] Mike's trees Once y'all get those New Zealand trees and shrubs planted to serve as Yule logs you can revive the Stromness 'ba. I picture the sides, decorated with Maori tattoos, challenging each other with the haka before the game, then stalking the wily apteryx through the cold jungle for Christmas dinner. Plucking those hairy feathers must be quite the art. Is Hogmanay just an excuse for excessive drunkenness and bad behavior, as is usually the case for our own New Year's Eve parties in the states? Not really my idea of a good time, but what do I know? The Kirkwall Christmas lights are beautiful, thanks for that link and the one to Maeshowe. Love to all, and holiday blessings, George Sandy Coghill Olympia, Washington USA To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com

On 10/12/03 at 11:37 Mike Clouston wrote: >This game mercifully ceased about 1930 for our trees could >not sustain the loss of one per annum, ad infinitum." If memory serves correct the Stromness game was stopped following protests by local merchants/businesses, afraid for their windows. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com

I think the reason is practical: sandy soil = easy digging. Robert On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:40:53 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), "Grumpy" wrote: > > Evening greetings, > > Can anyone throw any light on why so many (although not all) of Orkney's old > graveyards are very close to the sea shore.

Charles Tait (Redirected by Sigurd Towrie ) wrote: >So the truth is finally out - it was the Stromnessians who did for the >last of the trees in Orkney! Seriously I doubt the game "died out" >without substantial encouragement from the "powers that be". Woe betide >any such who try in Kirkwall. The game is hard fought but fairly and >the players are very good at avoiding each other serious injury. Just >the occasional broken rib, collar bone, even leg (heard the crack). > > I have extracted a couple of paragraphs from Ex-Provost G.S. Robertson's "History of Stromness 1900-1972" - "Yule Log. Each Christmas Eve there was the contest of the Yule Log on the streets between the Northenders and the Southenders. It is not known if the original was a real log, but in this century, it was a tree. You would be wrong to conclude that a public spirited person donated a tree for this melee, for the facts were very different. Under conver of darkness, the selected tree was mainly sawn across, to permit of a quick get-away on the vital night. It is recorded that the Reverend James Christie stood guard on his precious trees on the occasion, and doubtless, others were doing likewise. With ropes attached to the tree, the streets were soon strewn with broken branches as the tree advanced south or north towards the goals - Ma Humphs (Alfred Square - MCC) for the southenders and the Pier for the Northenders. This game mercifully ceased about 1930 for our trees could not sustain the loss of one per annum, ad infinitum." "Youths' and Men's Ba's. On Christmas and New Year's Day, there were two Ba's - the Youths' at 11 a.m. and the Men's at 2 p.m. the latter attracted a large crowd, and provided a needed episode in the dark, drab days. Persons from all walks of life took part in the tussle, suitably dressed for the occasion. A diversion occurred when the ba' emerged from the crowd at a close-end, and the person in possession aimed to carry it to a point south or north of the contest. The most famous was the occasion when deaf Tommy Clouston escaped north, with the crowd in pursuit. Reaching the pier, he clibed the rigging of the schooner *Minnie*, and descending, threw the ba' into the basin, and along with others dived in to recover it. On one occasion, he is credited with swimming with the Ba' from the basin to his own pier below the Commercial Hotel. As Guilio Fugaccia had provided a large plate glass window in his shop at 41 Victoria Street (between the Post Office and Brown's Hostel - MCC), it was considered too risky to permit ba' play, and the games were terminated in the late 20s." I have a cousin in the Orkney Police - he tells me that many a score is settled "amicably" during the ba' in Kirkwall with a few well-delivered punches! <remainder of Charles' post snipped>

On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 09:01 AM, stephen davie wrote: > > On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 08:59 AM, stephen davie wrote: > >> Here Goes: >> >> Those would be dead or unhealthy willows or chunks thereof, who in >> ill health, give way to the ferocity of a full-winded assault, >> thereby giving the younger or healthier branches or plants, an >> opportunity to flex and bend, without the annoying interference of a >> dead or dying neighbor. >> >> Alternatively, in Orkney (and therefore on topic), the reason would >> be that someone's lose-running canine companion, under the cover of >> darkness, piddled on the tree, causing the unusual loss of life and >> limb to occur. >> >> Perhaps if that impulsive canine was given the odd stale ginger snap, >> it would recognize the benefit of squirting someone else's tree, >> don't you think? So you must give up that cookie, or rake up the >> yard. Hmmmmm. >> >> Nice discussing with you Nora. Which of those coveted isles is your >> home? >> >> Stephen >> >> >> On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 05:59 AM, Norascats@aol.com wrote: >> >>> In a message dated 12/9/2003 9:29:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, >>> stephen.davie@sympatico.ca writes: >>> A >>> willow never snaps. >>> Then why do I have branches all over my yard after a storm? >>> Nora >>> >>> >>> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >>> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with >>> the word >>> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >>> >> > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 08:59 AM, stephen davie wrote: > Here Goes: > > Those would be dead or unhealthy willows or chunks thereof, who in ill > health, give way to the ferocity of a full-winded assault, thereby > giving the younger or healthier branches or plants, an opportunity to > flex and bend, without the annoying interference of a dead or dying > neighbor. > > Alternatively, in Orkney (and therefore on topic), the reason would be > that someone's lose-running canine companion, under the cover of > darkness, piddled on the tree, causing the unusual loss of life and > limb to occur. > > Perhaps if that impulsive canine was given the odd stale ginger snap, > it would recognize the benefit of squirting someone else's tree, don't > you think? So you must give up that cookie, or rake up the yard. > Hmmmmm. > > Nice discussing with you Nora. Which of those coveted isles is your > home? > > Stephen > > > On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 05:59 AM, Norascats@aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 12/9/2003 9:29:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, >> stephen.davie@sympatico.ca writes: >> A >> willow never snaps. >> Then why do I have branches all over my yard after a storm? >> Nora >> >> >> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the >> word >> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >> >

On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 08:59 AM, stephen davie wrote: > Here Goes: > > Those would be dead or unhealthy willows or chunks thereof, who in ill > health, give way to the ferocity of a full-winded assault, thereby > giving the younger or healthier branches or plants, an opportunity to > flex and bend, without the annoying interference of a dead or dying > neighbor. > > Alternatively, in Orkney (and therefore on topic), the reason would be > that someone's lose-running canine companion, under the cover of > darkness, piddled on the tree, causing the unusual loss of life and > limb to occur. > > Perhaps if that impulsive canine was given the odd stale ginger snap, > it would recognize the benefit of squirting someone else's tree, don't > you think? So you must give up that cookie, or rake up the yard. > Hmmmmm. > > Nice discussing with you Nora. Which of those coveted isles is your > home? > > Stephen > > > On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 05:59 AM, Norascats@aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 12/9/2003 9:29:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, >> stephen.davie@sympatico.ca writes: >> A >> willow never snaps. >> Then why do I have branches all over my yard after a storm? >> Nora >> >> >> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the >> word >> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >> >

In a message dated 12/9/2003 9:29:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, stephen.davie@sympatico.ca writes: A willow never snaps. Then why do I have branches all over my yard after a storm? Nora

Once y'all get those New Zealand trees and shrubs planted to serve as Yule logs you can revive the Stromness 'ba. I picture the sides, decorated with Maori tattoos, challenging each other with the haka before the game, then stalking the wily apteryx through the cold jungle for Christmas dinner. Plucking those hairy feathers must be quite the art. Is Hogmanay just an excuse for excessive drunkenness and bad behavior, as is usually the case for our own New Year's Eve parties in the states? Not really my idea of a good time, but what do I know? The Kirkwall Christmas lights are beautiful, thanks for that link and the one to Maeshowe. Love to all, and holiday blessings, George Sandy Coghill Olympia, Washington USA

(Redirected by "Sigurd Towrie" <sigurd@orkneyjar.com>) *********** BEGIN REDIRECTED MESSAGE *********** So the truth is finally out - it was the Stromnessians who did for the last of the trees in Orkney! Seriously I doubt the game "died out" without substantial encouragement from the "powers that be". Woe betide any such who try in Kirkwall. The game is hard fought but fairly and the players are very good at avoiding each other serious injury. Just the occasional broken rib, collar bone, even leg (heard the crack). Those from outside the toon mostly cannot understand what all the fuss is about. As to loyalty to sides that generally runs in families these days, and incomers would play on the side of their friends usually. Many take great care as to how they bring their new born progeny home so that they enter the town on whatever is the right side of the Market Cross to them. The Doonies are referred to as "Shorey Boys" and the tale goes that many Ba's being thrown up by a Doonie get a bit of a dip in the basin the night before, while Uppies will touch the wall at Mackinson's Corner with it. Of course none of this has any effect on the outcome which depends solely on the skill (yes) of the players as well as their numbers, endurance, the weather and so on. Much recommended as is Orkney in general out of season. For example today was great with a lovely sunset. -- Charles Tait Photographic Limited, Kelton, St Ola, Orkney, UK KW15 1TR Tel 01856 873738 Fax 01856 875313 Mobile 07785 220269 All outgoing and incoming mail is checked by Norton Antivirus 2003 email charles.tait@zetnet.co.uk website http://www.charles-tait.co.uk *********** END REDIRECTED MESSAGE ***********

Hi all, Stromness had a game similar in concept to the Ba' but it died out after the First World War. Instead of a Ba' the North Enders and South Enders fought over a Yule Log. Obtaining a Yule Log wasn't always easy because of the shortage of trees and I can remember my father telling me that many a householder woke on a Christmas or New Year's Day to find a well-loved tree had disappeared from his or her garden! Maybe we Stromnessians contributed to the shortage of trees in Orkney :-) -- Mike Clouston

Thank you Charles & Sigurd, I found the sites and answered my own question - Looks like I would be classifed as a "Doonie" with all my male ancestors from Westray!! Jim D - Denver

Charles - Please describe the boundary(s) between the "Uppies" & Doonies" - I think I remember that the the line is near St. Magnus, but where does it go and who are from the North of the line and who from the South? What would a Westrayman be classified in this event? (My paternal line goes back to about 1720 in the Aikerness area, Westray, to one David Drever). Jim Driver - (Cold) Denver, CO

On 09/12/03 at 07:46 STRONSAY2@cs.com wrote: >I have read many references but still do not have a grasp of the .... >game? event? As well as Charles's own site (http://www.bagame.com) see http://www.orkneyjar.com/tradition/bagame for an overview of the "rules". -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com

(Redirected by "Sigurd Towrie" <sigurd@orkneyjar.com>) *********** BEGIN REDIRECTED MESSAGE *********** Although Hogmanay visiting may indeed be less, possibly partly due to changes in attitudes to drinking and driving, one custom which goes from strength to strength is the Ba' in Kirkwall on Xmas and New Year. This game is of course intensely parochial in that folk from such distant parts as Stromness or the West Mainland generally are not interested, although in the past similar games were held in other parts of orkney and indeed more generally in Britain and Europe. Although the authorities have many times tried to crack down on this rather rough and tumble game, they always have failed and hopefully always will fail to curtail the tradition. In fact apart from the players who may number 100-200 there are hundreds of spectators and the whole thing is a huge community social event as well as a serious game. When I started taking photos in 1977 no one had taken any for several years, but now of course cameras and videos abound, so that each game is well covered by imagery. It remains a hard sport to capture in the camera, whether on film of digitally. Action is quick but short interspersed by often long period of seeming inactivity. The game may reach almost any part of the centre of town and woe betide the person or business who fails to erect barricades just because "it is a while since the Ba' wis here". There will be images and reports on the Ba' website after the games at http://www.bagame.com so you all ken what CT will be doing on Christmas and New Year's days after the game! There will be a delay while images are downloaded, selected, processed and placed on the web. Everything is now shot on RAW settings to get best quality, but this does entail more processing. Anyway fir anyone interested in orcadian heritage the Ba' is an important modern part of it, although its origins are undoubtedly ancient. Maybe the tale that it used to be played with some unfortunate whose head a viking removed is apocryphal but no doubt there are gory antecedents. -- Charles Tait Photographic Limited, Kelton, St Ola, Orkney, UK KW15 1TR Tel 01856 873738 Fax 01856 875313 Mobile 07785 220269 All outgoing and incoming mail is checked by Norton Antivirus 2003 email charles.tait@zetnet.co.uk website http://www.charles-tait.co.uk *********** END REDIRECTED MESSAGE ***********

On 08/12/03 at 22:57 gcog@webtv.net wrote: >My grandfather, who was born in Stenness in 1885, told me that he and >his brothers and sisters would go out on New Year's Eve to nearby >houses, knock at their doors and say, > >>Hogmanay, Hogmanay, >>Gie (sp?) us your white bread and none o' >>your grey. > >Does such a custom still exist? Unfortunately the "Ne'er Sangs" that were once found across Orkney are now just dim memories. Even first-footing at Hogmanay is considerably less prevalent than even 20 years ago. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com