Good thought. But the numbers seem somewhat overwhelming. 24 canine skulls in one little cairn. On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 07:52 PM, Juliet Marillier wrote: > <Why would one in those days, when excavations and stonework involved > so > much backache and sweat, would someone choose to bury their canine > comrades in a fashion that mimics an Egyptian royal?> > > Interring the skulls of various animals most likely had a ritual > purpose. I realise these are Neolithic remains, but if you think > forward > to the Picts, their symbol stones feature all manner of creatures along > with the more obscure symbols, in keeping with their close relationship > with the natural environment. And there's one theory that says the > Orcadian Picts were actually descended from the Neolithic inhabitants > of > the islands. It's highly likely the Neolithic people of Orkney had a > faith and ritual observance closely tied the elements, the seasons, > heavenly phenomena etc, so a representative sample of animal skulls is > perhaps not so surprising. > > Juliet > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

Sorry for the Sears info folks. Dear old Outlook put this address in my book and I sent out a mass mailing without checking all the addresses. Maybe Sears was from the Orkney's and this all fits in? lg

IVE SEEN THIS BEFORE BUT ITS WORTH PASSING ON I assume you have all seen the reports about how Sears is treating its reservist employees who are called up? By law, they are required to hold their jobs open and available, but nothing more. Usually, people take a big pay cut and lose benefits as a result of being called up...Sears is voluntarily paying the difference in salaries and maintaining all benefits, including medical insurance and bonus programs, for all called up reservist employees for up to two years. I submit that Sears is an exemplary corporate citizen and should be recognized for its contribution. Suggest we all shop at Sears, and be sure to find a manager to tell them why we are there so the company gets the positive reinforcement it well deserves. Pass it on. So I decided to check it out before I sent it forward. I sent the following email to the Sears Customer Service Department: I received this email and I would like to know if it is true. If it is, the Internet may have just become one very good source of advertisement for your store. I know I would go out of my way to buy products from Sears instead of another store for a like item even if it was cheaper at the other store. Here is their answer to my email...................... Dear Customer: Thank you for contacting Sears. The information is factual. We appreciate your positive feedback. Sears regards service to our country as one of greatest sacrifices our young men and women can make We are happy to do our part to lessen the burden they bear at this time. Bill Thorn Sears Customer Care webcenter@sears.com 1-800-349-4358 Please pass this on to all your friends, Sears needs to be recognized for this outstanding contribution and we need to show them as Americans, we do appreciate what they are doing for our military, Checked Snopes.com and copied the status:Claim: Sears pays the difference in salaries and maintains benefits for their called-up reservist employees. Status: True.

... sorry, but I don't know, whether or not it was reported here: If you have missed the actual broadcast of the daily morning news (0730 - 0800 hours local time) follow the link to http://www.orkneycommunities.co.uk/radioorkney.asp and click on "click here" at the end of the first line of the text. OrkneyComunities provide a record of the news and make them available for the whole day ... Best to have the BBC-Real Player Version installed, but a non embeded real player version is available as well.

On 15 December 2003 20:30, Sigurd Towrie wrote: > Reading through an excavation report of the Cuween > cairn opening this morning, although he does document the dog > bones, there is no real analysis. Forgot to mention that the Cuween skulls were "lost" at some point after the excavation, but in April this year, when speaking to Dr Colin Richards, who is carrying out a project on the chambered cairns of Wideford, Quanterness, Cuween etc, he confirmed that human skulls and two of the 24 dog skulls found in the "excavation" had turned up in the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh. Their re-discovery will allow the cairn to be finally dated accurately - a date which is thought could be much earlier than the current 3,000BC estimate. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk

On 15 December 2003 14:46, stephen davie wrote: > Back to the Orkney topic, while a crude but enthusiastic amateur > student of Orkney history, I have read and believe that dog > bones were > found in elaborate stone manmade cave-like structures, carefully > excavated by the scientists of the day. I was wondering > simply if there > was any data from these archaeologists and scientists examining the > findings, as to the probable size and structure of these dogs, and if > there was similarities that were somewhat commonplace like big leg > bones and big skulls. Dog skulls have been found within the Neolithic chambered cairns at Cuween (where 24 were found) and Burray (seven found), along with the remains of numerous other animals such as sheep, red deer, otter, pig, sea-eagle, fish, cattle etc etc. A single (small) canine skull was one of the only surviving artefacts after the Iron Age structre Minehowe was "excavated" in 1945. Unfortunately these "excavations" (the crudeness of which is remarked upon by archaeologist John Hedges who examined the Isbister Cairn)took place in the 1800s and as such were not as meticulous as they would have been were the cairns opened today. Reading through an excavation report of the Cuween cairn opening this morning, although he does document the dog bones, there is no real analysis. However, they were, I believe, not big dogs but probably terrier/Jack Russell type of size. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk

On 15 December 2003 14:46, stephen davie wrote: > Back to the Orkney topic, while a crude but enthusiastic amateur > student of Orkney history, I have read and believe that dog > bones were > found in elaborate stone manmade cave-like structures, carefully > excavated by the scientists of the day. I was wondering > simply if there > was any data from these archaeologists and scientists examining the > findings, as to the probable size and structure of these dogs, and if > there was similarities that were somewhat commonplace like big leg > bones and big skulls. Dog skulls have been found within the Neolithic chambered cairns at Cuween (where 24 were found) and Burray (seven found), along with the remains of numerous other animals such as sheep, red deer, otter, pig, sea-eagle, fish, cattle etc etc. A single (small) canine skull was one of the only surviving artefacts after the Iron Age structre Minehowe was "excavated" in 1945. Unfortunately these "excavations" (the crudeness of which is remarked upon by archaeologist John Hedges who examined the Isbister Cairn)took place in the 1800s and as such were not as meticulous as they would have been were the cairns opened today. Reading through an excavation report of the Cuween cairn opening this morning, although he does document the dog bones, there is no real analysis. However, they were, I believe, not big dogs but probably terrier/Jack Russell type of size. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk

Dear Sig: Fascinating stuff! Why would one in those days, when excavations and stonework involved so much backache and sweat, would someone choose to bury their canine comrades in a fashion that mimics ad Egyptian royal? I understand the concept of crypts and so on as they pertain to humans, but dogs? This Cuween Hill is very close to our farm. I have a photo of it on my computer home page. It is taken from a hole-in-the-ground called Fairy Knowe and from there we can see the old farm and Holme of Grimbister. I also have a shot from a Wideford Hill, looking I presume west towards Finstown over Grimbister. Puzzles me. Why 24 dogs in a Cairn?( Gosh, I wonder if they were our dogs!) Somehow when I read the Saga for the second time (wore out the book Fiona sent me. Fell in the hot tub once too many times), I in my imagination cannot conceive of life in those old and volatile times without a canine sentry. Around here in the country, to this day, when men leave to go to town or whatever, they often feel some satisfaction knowing that their dog is accompanying their loved ones. Often that proves to be a worthwhile and practical solution to what is becoming more of a concern as people stream in here from the cities. Newfoundlanders would simply love that Orkney seaside, windswept environment. Where does Dr. Colin Richards hang his hat? He might have a thought or two about this mysterious practice of exotic yesteryear pet burials. Buried human bodies about ten feet from the high water mark in sand, and the dogs in former years, were virtually entombed. There has to be a reason for this. And my normally exotic imagination can't muster one up. Thanks for your information. By the way, I checked out in this process your site and the info on Cuween. Once again you have Orkney in the Jar, so to speak! Well done. Very informative. Must check out the location exactly on my ordinance charts, it it is on them. Appears to be within a mile or less of the Bay of Firth south of Finstown. Thanks Again:.........Stephen (-8C and 1.5 feet of snow. ) On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 03:56 PM, Sigurd Towrie wrote: > On 15 December 2003 20:30, Sigurd Towrie wrote: > >> Reading through an excavation report of the Cuween >> cairn opening this morning, although he does document the dog >> bones, there is no real analysis. > > Forgot to mention that the Cuween skulls were "lost" at some point > after > the excavation, but in April this year, when speaking to Dr Colin > Richards, who is carrying out a project on the chambered cairns of > Wideford, Quanterness, Cuween etc, he confirmed that human skulls and > two of the 24 dog skulls found in the "excavation" had turned up in the > National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh. > > Their re-discovery will allow the cairn to be finally dated accurately > - > a date which is thought could be much earlier than the current 3,000BC > estimate. > > -- > Sigurd Towrie > Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney > Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com > Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com > Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

Hi Toni: Glad you liked it. Once it is framed it will keep me focused on my roots. All the best....Stephen On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 11:31 AM, Richard Oliveto/Toni Sammons Oliveto wrote: >> Thanky you Steven, belatedly, for sharing the beautiful watercolor >> and the > sory about your dog; and am fascinated by this erudite exposition. > What a > pleasure. Toni in La Conner, Washington state > >> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the >> word >> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >> > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

I was deeply saddened to hear on the Radio Orkney news bulletin this morning of the death of artist, art teacher and headmaster Mr Ian MacInnes. Born and brought up in Stromness, he taught at Stromness Academy for many years, firstly as Art Teacher and latterly as Headmaster. He loved Orkney, Stromness, the coast around Yesnaby and Rackwick in particular and produced some magnificent pictures of these and many other subjects. -- Mike Clouston

Hi there: The name Landseer, and it pertains to Newfoundland dogs, was not ever a derivative of "Landsheer" or of any sheepdog. Skeletons of giant dogs have been found in Newfoundland since the fifth century. Best information is that the dogs were originally Viking in origin. When Leif Erikson discovered North America, aboard his boat he had a large black dog resembling a Newfoundland, called "Oolum." As recent as the 19 century, Norwegians used Newfoundland-like dogs for wolf and bear hunting. It is possible if not probable when you look at a Landseer Newfoundland (black and white), that some Great Pyrenees were bred to Newfoundland dogs by the Basque folks who routinely sailed from their homeland in northern Spain, to Newfoundland for fish. They had their big white pooches in tow, it seems, on these trips, some of which trips of course were recorded assumedly by the sea captains. These Spanish sailor dogs made friends in Newfoundland, and had puppies. A good latter-day report on the Newfoundland dog, was the Newfoundland journal of Aaron Thomas, 1794, which was a diary kept by able seaman Thomas during his voyage to Newfoundland from England, returning home to England in 1795 notes in hand. As to the Landseer name and origin, it is exclusively British, and proudly so. Sir Edwin Landseer (1802-1873) was and is still one of the pre-eminent masters of paintings of animals. He became world famous for his works, was knighted in 1850 and also received a gold medal in Paris in 1855 for his splendid work. The Landseer Newfoundland was proudly named so, after a famous painting of Sir Edwin Landseer called " A Distinguished Member of the Humane Society." If you punch up any Newfoundland site, you can see this incomparable painting of a loveable large black and white Newfoundland dog. Back to the Orkney topic, while a crude but enthusiastic amateur student of Orkney history, I have read and believe that dog bones were found in elaborate stone manmade cave-like structures, carefully excavated by the scientists of the day. I was wondering simply if there was any data from these archaeologists and scientists examining the findings, as to the probable size and structure of these dogs, and if there was similarities that were somewhat commonplace like big leg bones and big skulls. The active Viking connection between Iceland and Orkney was such that one might conclude that dogs travelled back and forth with the people, as expressed herein with Leif Erikson's dog. Newfoundlands are physically, by their structure and nature, a water dog, and their history of involvement with water and people in and around water, further confirms what has been concluded from research, that is that they are of Viking descent, a thousand years ago at least. At 175 pounds, our Landseer family member Logan, was physically trim and fit, fast, an incredible swimmer who would routinely hold his head under water looking for things, and there was even a thought that he had a Norwegian accent. He was no sheepdog--never. And there is no question whatsoever that he was named after a man knighted for painting a picture of one of his ancestors. Maybe someone in Orkney knows about those ancient Viking dogs. It would have made sense for people to have these dogs for niightlong vigil, watching over a sleeping family in the days of the Saga, when out of the blue in the dark of night, someone or some group could arrive, blades in hand, intent on settling some current-day score by burning the house after killing the sleeping occupants. The dogs would make this stealthy task more of a challenge. They also would protect the children, and would pull them from the water, if indeed we are talking about the same breed, which I think we are. In Newfoundland and perhaps in Orkney, they were used to draw fuel wood which was often miles from shore encampments in difficult terrain. Darn sure Leif Erikson's dog wasn't a fabrication. That's where the breed came from originally, according to the dog experts. Stephen On Sunday, December 14, 2003, at 06:31 PM, Wolfgang Schlick wrote: >>>>> He was a gentle giant, an Newfoundland, in fact a Landseer >>>>> Newfoundland, > a black and white fellow named Major Logan (aka Logie), from the Robbie > Burns poem. He weighed 175 pounds. > In the books relating to this breed there is speculation that it came > originally from mainland Europe from the mastiff breed, or from Basque > region of Spain, ... > > Sorry, but that's "a bit confusing" ... it's just "speculations" to > keep the > prices high ... > a Landseer (or Landsheer) has nothing to do with a mastiff ... > the mastiff has nothing to do with the Basque or the (pure white) > pyranees > (sheepdog) ... > > A Landseer (Landsheer) is a sheepdog from the northern parts of Sweden > and > (possibly) an ancestor of the Newfoundland ... > > ... and with his 175 pounds he seems to be a "light heavy weight > champion": > My dearest friend "Floh" (flee) showed 97 vital kilogramms yesterday > :-))) > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

<My ancestors, James and Mary (nee Flett) arrived in Australia in 1856.> Welcome, Richard. I also live in Australia and am also descended from Fletts - my paternal grandmother was Annie Flett, whose parents came out from Scotland to New Zealand in the 1850s. I have yet to discover whether they were Orcadian Fletts. Juliet

> Thanky you Steven, belatedly, for sharing the beautiful watercolor and the sory about your dog; and am fascinated by this erudite exposition. What a pleasure. Toni in La Conner, Washington state > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

>>>>He was a gentle giant, an Newfoundland, in fact a Landseer Newfoundland, a black and white fellow named Major Logan (aka Logie), from the Robbie Burns poem. He weighed 175 pounds. In the books relating to this breed there is speculation that it came originally from mainland Europe from the mastiff breed, or from Basque region of Spain, ... Sorry, but that's "a bit confusing" ... it's just "speculations" to keep the prices high ... a Landseer (or Landsheer) has nothing to do with a mastiff ... the mastiff has nothing to do with the Basque or the (pure white) pyranees (sheepdog) ... A Landseer (Landsheer) is a sheepdog from the northern parts of Sweden and (possibly) an ancestor of the Newfoundland ... ... and with his 175 pounds he seems to be a "light heavy weight champion": My dearest friend "Floh" (flee) showed 97 vital kilogramms yesterday :-)))

Hi My name is Richard Linklater and I live in Sydney, Australia. I am married with 3 children (20, 18 & 16). My wife was born in Finland and her family migrated to Australia when she was 9. My ancestors, James and Mary (nee Flett) arrived in Australia in 1856. I am not sure where they lived in Orkney but my father's name was Harray, presumably after Loch Harray. Harray seems to crop up every now and then in the family history I have been working on. I am interested in finding out more about the Orkney Islands as I may have a chance to visit there in mid 2004. Thank you Richard Linklater

On 14 December 2003 16:47, stephen davie wrote: > In Orkney, is there any evidence of big dogs or a breed like Newfies > that have been established over time on those islands? All the dog > bones that archaeologists dig up seemed to get a rather royal > burial in > many cases in Orkney of old. I have read when these ancient imbedded > stone caverns are opened, that dog bones were interred there, > evidently with more dignity than any other critter. Was there any > examination of > these old bones to determine what size of dog they were? Any idea of > the breed? Was there any similarity in size or skull design and > structure? A good question! From memory I think they were fairly small but will have to check to confirm. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk

Dogs of Orkney: We lost our dog in a freak accident a couple of years ago, and come springtime we hope to get another. He was a gentle giant, an Newfoundland, in fact a Landseer Newfoundland, a black and white fellow named Major Logan (aka Logie), from the Robbie Burns poem. He weighed 175 pounds. In the books relating to this breed there is speculation that it came originally from mainland Europe from the mastiff breed, or from Basque region of Spain, a cross from the pyranees breed. There is evidence that somewhere along the way the breed was mixed up with wolves on Newfoundland, our Island province. But he was a Viking, most say. Fascinating it is to discover that there seems to be proof handed down through history, that the original breed arrived here a thousand years ago with the Vikings, first to arrive from Europe notwithstanding all the noise abut the Italian fellow, Christopher Columbus. (I think he was merely delivering pizza to the Vikings). This breed of dog is ideally suited to a cold island terrain. Over the years they have developed an instinctive urge to pull people from the water. And countless records of their courage are expressed wherever they are discussed. In particular, a dog named Gander, from whence he came, was posthumously decorated by the government for in world war two, Japanese theater, picking up a ticking grenade thrown amongst his friends, only to die a sudden death as he scooted off with the bomb in his mouth to dispose of it, in order to protect his friends engaged in the heat of the battle. In Orkney, is there any evidence of big dogs or a breed like Newfies that have been established over time on those islands? All the dog bones that archaeologists dig up seemed to get a rather royal burial in many cases in Orkney of old. I have read when these ancient imbedded stone caverns are opened, that dog bones were interred there, evidently with more dignity than any other critter. Was there any examination of these old bones to determine what size of dog they were? Any idea of the breed? Was there any similarity in size or skull design and structure? After all the speculation, the Newfie gets the most votes as an original Viking family member, who endured on Newfoundland and Labrador, and thereafter interbred with whatever canines settlers brought over a few hundred years, from Scotland, Ireland England and France to Newfoundland. Most believe truly he is t probably a Viking, being water adapted and devoutly faithful and protective of children. I would be interested in knowing if there is one dog breed that is historically significant in Orkney, before the islands were officially handed over to the Scots. It was said that Iceland would be where the dogs originated from. The ties between Iceland and Orkney being what they were a thousand years ago, it makes me wonder more about dogs in Orkney. Any ideas? Stephen and Elaine ( missing Logie terribly)

George Coghill wrote: >Mike Clouston wrote: > > > >>Don't forget he'll need a drop of ginger >>wine too over the Yule :-) >> >> >__________________________________ > >GINGER WINE?!? That sounds wonderful. Is that a home-made concoction, >or something commercially available? An Orkney tradition, perhaps? I >had some delicious beet root wine when I was in Orkney, produced by one >of my cousins. Seriously, though, I am addicted to ginger and always >happy to discover new ways to ingest it, so if you, Mike, or any of the >other kind people on the list could clarify the ginger wine mystery for >me, I would be most grateful. > > > Ginger wine is commercially available from supermarkets and off-licences in the UK, George. A well-known brand is "Crabbie's". It is an essential ingredient in a whisky mac. Nice and warming on a cold winter's night :-) However it can be made at home - a recipe can be found here - http://www.greenchronicle.com/recipes/ginger_wine.htm Enjoy :-) Cheers -- Mike Clouston

On 13 December 2003 20:52, Peggy Stone wrote: > My question is, has anyone thought to flash any fertility > symbols at stodgy female bankers? Are there any Orcadian > pictographs that turn them on? Inquiring minds want to know.... Well, if you believe the woman who wrote "Landscapes of Desire", there's plenty of upright, masculine symbols in the Ring o' Brodgar ;o) -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk

Hello again, Many thanks for all the interesting and thought provoking ideas for the graveyards. Having considered the facts and especially the one important fact that no one has been able to come up with any documented historical reason for the locations, I am off the opinion that perhaps it stems from an ancient pagan mixed with Christian belief that over the centuries has been lost in antiquity. Although digging in sandy ground would be easy, you cannot dismiss the fact that soft easy digging could also been achieved in many parts of Orkney, not just the sea shore. When these graves were dug, none were dug to deeply, unlike today when a new grave has to go down the whole 6 feet and 4 feet 6 inches for a re-open. Does anyone know about the site on the sea shore in Costa?, it lies almost directly below the cottage of Brekan, on the corner of the Whitemire road. I remember this site as a child, at which time there was the remains of a low wall, only about 18 inches high. Within the site there was a quite few stone markers, not proper grave stones as such. The nearest proper graveyard to Costa would be the one in Evie I think, down at Aikerness. So perhaps the site in Costa is a very old graveyard for long forgotten Costa departed inhabitants! There was a church at the corner of the Whitemire road (still there but converted into a house), and there was no graveyard beside the church. Take care Grumpy