Can't help you with this one Dan, sorry. "The Orcadian" web site seems to have a fault as well as it is showing last Saturday's news page and I can't get into the archives at all. Where did you read this article and how long ago was it? -- Mike Clouston Dan wrote: > Hello, > I recently read an article about plans to salvage a 300 year old shipwreck off the coast of North Ronaldsay that contains a cargo of Indian dyewood. If possible, the Islanders then want to use the wood to make dye to color local wool products for market. Does anyone have an update on this story or more information? > Dan

Dear Janice, Although it is not my line of the family, there is a Cromarty (Cromartie) line that moved about that same time to Bladen, North Carolina from S. Ronaldsey? Have you researched the connection to see why they were being moved to that area from Orkney, and if there was a connection? Edward Cromarty ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Harold Ivester" <jhivester@hi-s.com> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] HBC > Stephen, > Our Ivester ancestor, Hugh Isbister, came from Orkney to Savannah, > Georgia in 1775, the only Isbister to come to the South that I am aware of > (and I've done tons of research). We went back to Orkney in 1996, the first > of Hugh's descendents to do so, arriving in Stromess, where Hugh departed as > an indentured servant of Col. Thomas Browne - a famous Loyalist here in > Georgia. The story is fascinating and I'll tell you more if you are > interested. Am sending this to you off-line since it is more genealogy than > Orkney related. Don't have much time now so will talk to you later > > Janice Ivester > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >

Harold, Are you aware of a piece of software called "Time and Chaos"? The company that produces it was called Isbister Software but I see they now call themselves Chaos Software, but a search on Google for Isbister software still brings them up. Wouldn't mind betting there's some Orkney connection there. I may have mentioned this to you before. -- Mike Clouston J. Harold Ivester wrote: > Stephen, > Our Ivester ancestor, Hugh Isbister, came from Orkney to Savannah, > Georgia in 1775, the only Isbister to come to the South that I am aware of > (and I've done tons of research). We went back to Orkney in 1996, the first > of Hugh's descendents to do so, arriving in Stromess, where Hugh departed as > an indentured servant of Col. Thomas Browne - a famous Loyalist here in > Georgia. The story is fascinating and I'll tell you more if you are > interested. Am sending this to you off-line since it is more genealogy than > Orkney related. Don't have much time now so will talk to you later > > Janice Ivester > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > >

Dear Marion, What year did your ancestor arrive in Massachusetts (Maine)? What was his name? My family left Orkney in the 1500's for London and lived in London until they were moved as officers by the Army and Royal Navy to Barbados in the 1800's were they purchased several estates in Barbados and the British West Indies. They still apparently primarily lived in London but they had there plantations in the BWI. From London and the BWI they moved to NYC in the 1900's. It is interesting that the parishes in London they came from are the same parishes that settled the Massachusetts and Virginia colonies. If you give me more detail perhaps I will know something of the history you are interested in. Edward Cromarty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marion" <marion@pivot.net> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] HBC > Hi! I am interested! How or where did you find where your ancestor departed > from? > My mother's side of the family - Ridlon - came from Orkney - Magnus came > to Maine - the story goes that the English "took him" and he jumped ship in > what is now Maine (was Massachusetts). I went to Scotland in 2002 with a > tour group and have been back (to Orkney) twice since. > Marion Brooks, Naples, Maine > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >

Hello, I recently read an article about plans to salvage a 300 year old shipwreck off the coast of North Ronaldsay that contains a cargo of Indian dyewood. If possible, the Islanders then want to use the wood to make dye to color local wool products for market. Does anyone have an update on this story or more information? Dan

Hi!!! I?m a portuguese student of archaelogy and i wanted to learn more about orkney. Please help me... i visited the web site just for fun and that is how i learned about the place. but now i?m interested in learning more... Send me all the information you have. Thank you all!!! Ana

Hi! I am interested! How or where did you find where your ancestor departed from? My mother's side of the family - Ridlon - came from Orkney - Magnus came to Maine - the story goes that the English "took him" and he jumped ship in what is now Maine (was Massachusetts). I went to Scotland in 2002 with a tour group and have been back (to Orkney) twice since. Marion Brooks, Naples, Maine

Stephen, Our Ivester ancestor, Hugh Isbister, came from Orkney to Savannah, Georgia in 1775, the only Isbister to come to the South that I am aware of (and I've done tons of research). We went back to Orkney in 1996, the first of Hugh's descendents to do so, arriving in Stromess, where Hugh departed as an indentured servant of Col. Thomas Browne - a famous Loyalist here in Georgia. The story is fascinating and I'll tell you more if you are interested. Am sending this to you off-line since it is more genealogy than Orkney related. Don't have much time now so will talk to you later Janice Ivester

Hi Ana, It was pleasant to hear from you as Orkney is a topic of interest of mine as well. Orkney is a very large topic to cover so generally. You can learn the general information by reading books and by visiting the island and possibly even studying on Orkney, and I do believe there are archaeology courses offered at Orkney College. My own interest is in my family history and genealogy, I know this may not be of interest to you as it is a rather specialized topic, but the Cromarty history is a good one. I would think another item you can check would be the Orkney Library and Archives to see if they have any information, and living there for a time as it would help you to understand the region. I hope I have been of some assistance. Edward Cromarty ----- Original Message ----- From: <AnaBraga13@sapo.pt> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 5:59 AM Subject: Unidentified subject! > Hi!!! > I?m a portuguese student of archaelogy and i wanted to learn more about orkney. > Please help me... i visited the web site just for fun and that is how i learned > about the place. but now i?m interested in learning more... Send me all the > information you have. > Thank you all!!! > > Ana > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >

Stephen- I work backstage at Confederation Centre theatre in Ch'town & last week I had a chat w/ the singer/actor Tom Jackson, prob best known for his "Huron Xmas Carole" . He's Cree and we chatted about his roots, but he didn't mention any Orkney influences. cheers Dutch ----- Original Message ----- From: "stephen davie" <stephen.davie@sympatico.ca> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] HBC > Thank you, Dutch, for the offer: > > Your note is the first encounter I have had to indicate that music was > a part of the Orcadian existence here with the HBC. I always felt the > highland Scots and the English in charge of the larger forts would > impose their own style. But then there were all those inland trips and > posts dominated by Orcadians. It would be interesting to hear some of > it, played by our Orkney/Cree relatives in the Athabaska. > > When I first discovered that the HBC might have records about oury > relatives service with the company, I contacted them in Winnipeg, and > was astounded with what they came up with. Oddly, whereas our relatives > here all know where the old farm is in Orkney, and many have visited, > nobody ever thought to contact the HBC. The first file the lady sent > was the employment of William Davie, one of ours for sure. He was a > clerk with the company when the Constitution was signed in Canada in > 1867. On the bottom of the file was a note that said, "His Grandfather > Also Served." Then they gave us the grandfather's file as well as many > others dating well back to the 1700's. The first Governor of the > company in the North West at Fort York was an Isbister, a common Orkney > name, and one intermingled with our family and many others in the > 1700's. > > One of the amazing stories was the John Gunn story, the chap who > travelled by water and land and on snow to get to Fort York. He > collapsed in the factor's house in the freezing night. When he began to > scream, his coat was removed and it was discovered by his incredible > chest configuration that John Gunn was a woman, Isobel (I think) in > fact. She was looking for her boyfriend, and the screaming was an > announcement of labour pains. She was a determined lady. She remained > in the fort for years. > > Dutch, I have flown several times over that Hudson's Bay area east of > Churchill, in a small floatplane. and the very thought of trying to > squeak through the Hudson Strait pack ice in August in a wooden > sailboat with no escape option is frightening to me. The shoreline is > very inhospitable, and there is very little shelter from the wind and > water, save as to river mouths. You sense an overwhelming feeling of > being exposed to the elements in that country. I can't imagine how it > would have imprinted on the mind and heart of a young teenager from > Orkney. Once they boarded those boats, there was no turning back. They > (HBC) have records of the boats that sank. Some of the boat names > appear year after year for decades, sailing back and forth from home. > > I am familiar with Beaver and see it on the bookshelf still. Another > good one in Up Here. How did you find a 1988 Beaver? > > Stephen- > > The article I'm quoting from was written by Dr Glyndwr Williams > > Head of > > Dept & Prof of History Queen Mary College, Univ of London & former > > general > > editor of the Hudson's bay Record Society. The Beaver Magazine dates > > from > > autumn 1983. > > Hearne's ( plus Isham & Graham) journals are primary sources for the > > long > > article-in fact the entire magazine is this article -in this special > > issue > > which I'm more than willing to pass along to you if you wish. > > I have no HBC connections- my Thomsons & Burgars ( & Pottingers I > > think) > > emigrated to Nova Scotia only (as far as I can figure-although there's > > a 20 > > year blank spot from around 1800-1820 when I have found written > > records from > > NS) > > Life wasn't much better in NS at that time- lots of trees & bears, but > > no > > factors barking out orders ! > > I have 2 letters sent from family in Papa W & Kirkwall from 1823 & > > 1832 > > describing "this vast & howling wilderness" left behind-Orkney- which > > might > > well describe the weather there in the past 24-48 hrs ! > > > > cheers Thompson > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "stephen davie" <stephen.davie@sympatico.ca> > > To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 10:31 PM > > Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] HBC > > > > > >> Interesting About the Orcadian HBC Employee Stature > >> > >> At dinner a relative said our Orkneymen explorer relatives were all > >> short and squat. I did a little research and discovered that as they > >> did with our family, the HBC picked clean the Orkney landscape of > >> young > >> virile men, often numerous generations off the same farm. Then > >> apparently rules were set in place to minimize the exodus. One of > >> these > >> rules was a height limitation. The result was many boys of twelve > >> years > >> or so were signed on. The reason therefore that many were short is > >> simply that they were still children. > >> > >> The HBC have incredible records of Orkneymen. All their records were > >> moved from London to Winnipeg and the Manitoba Museum does a good job > >> of portraying the HBC. > >> Interestingly enough, the natives respected the Orkney way, and the > >> natives and Orcadians got on better than the Brits and the Scots. My > >> relative, Andrew, was captured in Fort Prince of Wales in 1782 by the > >> French. The Orkneymen on the post never fired a shot. They were > >> treated > >> with respect by their captors and set free. Among them was SAmuel > >> Hearne.I suppose the alternative was to die for the British? > >> > >> Fascinating stuff. > >> On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 05:46 AM, Dutch Thompson wrote: > >> > >>> Hello- > >>> From autumn 1983 The Beaver magazine, an article titled : "The > >>> HBC > >>> and the Fur Trade:1670-1870': > >>> > >>> " The rations served out to the men consisted of provisions from > >>> England-salt pork & beef, flour, suet, peas, bacon, cheese, butter, > >>> and oatmeal- together with geese, ptarmigan, venison, rabbit and > >>> fish. > >>> To the modern eye the amounts seem gargantuan. On Christmas Day, > >>> 1705, > >>> each mess of four men at Albany was given twenty pounds of flour, 2 > >>> lb > >>> of bacon, 8 pints of oatmeal, 2 pints of rice, 2 lb of raisins, 1/2 > >>> lb > >>> of currants, 8 lb of mutton, 3 fresh and 2 salted geese, one 'piece' > >>> of salt bread, 12 partridges, 4 lb of biscuit bread, 2 lb of cheese, > >>> 1 > >>> 1/2 lb of butter, 3 lb of suet, and 60 fish. This was, the factor > >>> concluded, rather more than usual, but it was matched by the list > >>> given by Andrew Graham a half-century later of daily rations. Graham > >>> claimed...' the Orkney servants yearly send home to their wives and > >>> children flour that they store up.' > >>> If true, this was a bizzare stae of affairs, since the flour had been > >>> expensively shipped from England to the Bay only the previous year. " > >>> > >>> " The patent unsuitability for hard work of many of those > >>> prepared > >>> to sign on for Hudson Bay was one reason for the Company's decision > >>> to > >>> hire, first, Lowland Scots, and then Orkneymen, in increasing > >>> numbers. > >>> If dour and clannish, the later were hardier and more reliable than > >>> the general run of urbanized labourers, and by the 1730s most of the > >>> Company's labourers and some of the craftsmen came from the Orkneys > >>> (sic)-a regular port of call for the Company ships on their voyage > >>> from the Thames'north about' to the Bay... > >>> ...the French Wars from 1793 onwards came as a heavy blow. > >>> European wars had always broght their own difficulties to the > >>> HBC...above all a shorage of manpower. The British navy's demand for > >>> seamen drew many Orkneymen onto the service, and this hit the Company > >>> hard, for they were now providing 3/4 of the workforce in the Bay-390 > >>> out of 498 officers and men in 1800. If David Thompson is to be > >>> believed, by about 1796 the Orkneymen reaching York in the annual > >>> ship > >>> were few in number and small in stature-so much so that the Indian > >>> wife of one of the Company servants challenged him with the > >>> observation: ' have you not always told me, that the people in your > >>> country are as numerous as the leaves on the trees, how can you speak > >>> such a falsehood, do we not see plainly that the very last of them is > >>> come, if there were any more would these dwarfs have come here.' > >>> > >>> cheers Thompson > >>> > >>> > >>> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > >>> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > >>> word > >>> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > >> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > >> word > >> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > > word > > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >

Hi Dutch: I admire Tom Jackson, and Graham Green as well. Might as well throw Chief Dan George onto the appreciated list as well. Wonder where his (Jackson) Cree roots are? When you see him next, say " MINNOW-GISHY- GOW". That's Cree for "Nice Day." Hello is "WATCH-AY" with the emphasis on the WATCH. The Cree Nation is huge. By comparison, it makes all Great Britian look like an undersized campsite. I spoke last night with a man who stumbled upon some unique HBC artifacts. His source was from the north, an older fellow married to a Cree lady. I purchased a medallion, 3"X4", inscribed with Port Albany, 1704. These "tokens' were given to Indian Chiefs and other natives of influence, which they would trade amongst each other, or keep as a valuable. My Bro-in-law bought a bale tag which would have clipped onto a compressed bale of furs bound for England. He has beads (redhearts and greenhearts), hatchets, a spear head, knives, HBC money, trade trinkets etc. Most of the stuff is sold in the USA. That Albany fort was settled first by the HBC, and many in not most names appear on the register from Orkney. One of the names is Isbister, which family we are related to going back to the 1600'-1700 era. Two James DAvie men married Isbister sisters. Joseph Isbister took a Cree wife. His half breed son was a clever fellow and went to England where he became a somewhat prominent and for sure unique lawyer, who used his considerable influence to better the relationship between HBC and early settlers and the Metis (mixed race) natives. My dream is to have HBC arrange to meet interested Orkney-rooted HBC descendants in Winnipeg where the Foundation is now based, as is the HBC museum in concert with the Manitoba Govt. I am sure they could at least provide a meaningful presentation, and an explanation of how to search their massive databank for old Orkneymen. A side trip by train up to Churchill and then to Fort York would be nice. They have spent a bundle rebuilding that old fort, built by Orkneymen, so it makes some simple sense to have a visitation by the descendants of those who worked out of there, landed there, and in some cases, built the place, wouldn't you agree? Hope you got Tom Jackson's autograpy! I'll cast off now. Keep in touch..........Stephen Tuesday, March 9, 2004, at 05:13 AM, Dutch Thompson wrote: > Stephen- > I work backstage at Confederation Centre theatre in Ch'town & > last > week I > had a chat w/ the singer/actor Tom Jackson, prob best known for his > "Huron > Xmas Carole" . He's Cree and we chatted about his roots, but he didn't > mention any Orkney influences. > > cheers Dutch > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "stephen davie" <stephen.davie@sympatico.ca> > To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:37 PM > Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] HBC > > >> Thank you, Dutch, for the offer: >> >> Your note is the first encounter I have had to indicate that music was >> a part of the Orcadian existence here with the HBC. I always felt the >> highland Scots and the English in charge of the larger forts would >> impose their own style. But then there were all those inland trips and >> posts dominated by Orcadians. It would be interesting to hear some of >> it, played by our Orkney/Cree relatives in the Athabaska. >> >> When I first discovered that the HBC might have records about oury >> relatives service with the company, I contacted them in Winnipeg, and >> was astounded with what they came up with. Oddly, whereas our >> relatives >> here all know where the old farm is in Orkney, and many have visited, >> nobody ever thought to contact the HBC. The first file the lady sent >> was the employment of William Davie, one of ours for sure. He was a >> clerk with the company when the Constitution was signed in Canada in >> 1867. On the bottom of the file was a note that said, "His >> Grandfather >> Also Served." Then they gave us the grandfather's file as well as many >> others dating well back to the 1700's. The first Governor of the >> company in the North West at Fort York was an Isbister, a common >> Orkney >> name, and one intermingled with our family and many others in the >> 1700's. >> >> One of the amazing stories was the John Gunn story, the chap who >> travelled by water and land and on snow to get to Fort York. He >> collapsed in the factor's house in the freezing night. When he began >> to >> scream, his coat was removed and it was discovered by his incredible >> chest configuration that John Gunn was a woman, Isobel (I think) in >> fact. She was looking for her boyfriend, and the screaming was an >> announcement of labour pains. She was a determined lady. She remained >> in the fort for years. >> >> Dutch, I have flown several times over that Hudson's Bay area east of >> Churchill, in a small floatplane. and the very thought of trying to >> squeak through the Hudson Strait pack ice in August in a wooden >> sailboat with no escape option is frightening to me. The shoreline is >> very inhospitable, and there is very little shelter from the wind and >> water, save as to river mouths. You sense an overwhelming feeling of >> being exposed to the elements in that country. I can't imagine how it >> would have imprinted on the mind and heart of a young teenager from >> Orkney. Once they boarded those boats, there was no turning back. They >> (HBC) have records of the boats that sank. Some of the boat names >> appear year after year for decades, sailing back and forth from home. >> >> I am familiar with Beaver and see it on the bookshelf still. Another >> good one in Up Here. How did you find a 1988 Beaver? >> >> Stephen- >>> The article I'm quoting from was written by Dr Glyndwr Williams >>> Head of >>> Dept & Prof of History Queen Mary College, Univ of London & former >>> general >>> editor of the Hudson's bay Record Society. The Beaver Magazine dates >>> from >>> autumn 1983. >>> Hearne's ( plus Isham & Graham) journals are primary sources for the >>> long >>> article-in fact the entire magazine is this article -in this special >>> issue >>> which I'm more than willing to pass along to you if you wish. >>> I have no HBC connections- my Thomsons & Burgars ( & Pottingers I >>> think) >>> emigrated to Nova Scotia only (as far as I can figure-although >>> there's >>> a 20 >>> year blank spot from around 1800-1820 when I have found written >>> records from >>> NS) >>> Life wasn't much better in NS at that time- lots of trees & bears, >>> but >>> no >>> factors barking out orders ! >>> I have 2 letters sent from family in Papa W & Kirkwall from 1823 & >>> 1832 >>> describing "this vast & howling wilderness" left behind-Orkney- which >>> might >>> well describe the weather there in the past 24-48 hrs ! >>> >>> cheers Thompson >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "stephen davie" <stephen.davie@sympatico.ca> >>> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 10:31 PM >>> Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] HBC >>> >>> >>>> Interesting About the Orcadian HBC Employee Stature >>>> >>>> At dinner a relative said our Orkneymen explorer relatives were all >>>> short and squat. I did a little research and discovered that as they >>>> did with our family, the HBC picked clean the Orkney landscape of >>>> young >>>> virile men, often numerous generations off the same farm. Then >>>> apparently rules were set in place to minimize the exodus. One of >>>> these >>>> rules was a height limitation. The result was many boys of twelve >>>> years >>>> or so were signed on. The reason therefore that many were short is >>>> simply that they were still children. >>>> >>>> The HBC have incredible records of Orkneymen. All their records were >>>> moved from London to Winnipeg and the Manitoba Museum does a good >>>> job >>>> of portraying the HBC. >>>> Interestingly enough, the natives respected the Orkney way, and the >>>> natives and Orcadians got on better than the Brits and the Scots. My >>>> relative, Andrew, was captured in Fort Prince of Wales in 1782 by >>>> the >>>> French. The Orkneymen on the post never fired a shot. They were >>>> treated >>>> with respect by their captors and set free. Among them was SAmuel >>>> Hearne.I suppose the alternative was to die for the British? >>>> >>>> Fascinating stuff. >>>> On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 05:46 AM, Dutch Thompson wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello- >>>>> From autumn 1983 The Beaver magazine, an article titled : "The >>>>> HBC >>>>> and the Fur Trade:1670-1870': >>>>> >>>>> " The rations served out to the men consisted of provisions from >>>>> England-salt pork & beef, flour, suet, peas, bacon, cheese, butter, >>>>> and oatmeal- together with geese, ptarmigan, venison, rabbit and >>>>> fish. >>>>> To the modern eye the amounts seem gargantuan. On Christmas Day, >>>>> 1705, >>>>> each mess of four men at Albany was given twenty pounds of flour, 2 >>>>> lb >>>>> of bacon, 8 pints of oatmeal, 2 pints of rice, 2 lb of raisins, 1/2 >>>>> lb >>>>> of currants, 8 lb of mutton, 3 fresh and 2 salted geese, one >>>>> 'piece' >>>>> of salt bread, 12 partridges, 4 lb of biscuit bread, 2 lb of >>>>> cheese, >>>>> 1 >>>>> 1/2 lb of butter, 3 lb of suet, and 60 fish. This was, the factor >>>>> concluded, rather more than usual, but it was matched by the list >>>>> given by Andrew Graham a half-century later of daily rations. >>>>> Graham >>>>> claimed...' the Orkney servants yearly send home to their wives and >>>>> children flour that they store up.' >>>>> If true, this was a bizzare stae of affairs, since the flour had >>>>> been >>>>> expensively shipped from England to the Bay only the previous >>>>> year. " >>>>> >>>>> " The patent unsuitability for hard work of many of those >>>>> prepared >>>>> to sign on for Hudson Bay was one reason for the Company's decision >>>>> to >>>>> hire, first, Lowland Scots, and then Orkneymen, in increasing >>>>> numbers. >>>>> If dour and clannish, the later were hardier and more reliable than >>>>> the general run of urbanized labourers, and by the 1730s most of >>>>> the >>>>> Company's labourers and some of the craftsmen came from the Orkneys >>>>> (sic)-a regular port of call for the Company ships on their voyage >>>>> from the Thames'north about' to the Bay... >>>>> ...the French Wars from 1793 onwards came as a heavy blow. >>>>> European wars had always broght their own difficulties to the >>>>> HBC...above all a shorage of manpower. The British navy's demand >>>>> for >>>>> seamen drew many Orkneymen onto the service, and this hit the >>>>> Company >>>>> hard, for they were now providing 3/4 of the workforce in the >>>>> Bay-390 >>>>> out of 498 officers and men in 1800. If David Thompson is to be >>>>> believed, by about 1796 the Orkneymen reaching York in the annual >>>>> ship >>>>> were few in number and small in stature-so much so that the Indian >>>>> wife of one of the Company servants challenged him with the >>>>> observation: ' have you not always told me, that the people in your >>>>> country are as numerous as the leaves on the trees, how can you >>>>> speak >>>>> such a falsehood, do we not see plainly that the very last of them >>>>> is >>>>> come, if there were any more would these dwarfs have come here.' >>>>> >>>>> cheers Thompson >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >>>>> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with >>>>> the >>>>> word >>>>> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >>>> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with >>>> the >>>> word >>>> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >>> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the >>> word >>> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >>> >> >> >> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the >> word >> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >> >> > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

Thanks to all who responded. Yes, the answer should have been obvious, even to me. I appreciate all the replies. AlanS --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.614 / Virus Database: 393 - Release Date: 5/03/2004

On Tuesday, March 9, 2004, at 05:13 AM, Dutch Thompson wrote: > Stephen- > I work backstage at Confederation Centre theatre in Ch'town & > last > week I > had a chat w/ the singer/actor Tom Jackson, prob best known for his > "Huron > Xmas Carole" . He's Cree and we chatted about his roots, but he didn't > mention any Orkney influences. > > cheers Dutch > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "stephen davie" <stephen.davie@sympatico.ca> > To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:37 PM > Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] HBC > > >> Thank you, Dutch, for the offer: >> >> Your note is the first encounter I have had to indicate that music was >> a part of the Orcadian existence here with the HBC. I always felt the >> highland Scots and the English in charge of the larger forts would >> impose their own style. But then there were all those inland trips and >> posts dominated by Orcadians. It would be interesting to hear some of >> it, played by our Orkney/Cree relatives in the Athabaska. >> >> When I first discovered that the HBC might have records about oury >> relatives service with the company, I contacted them in Winnipeg, and >> was astounded with what they came up with. Oddly, whereas our >> relatives >> here all know where the old farm is in Orkney, and many have visited, >> nobody ever thought to contact the HBC. The first file the lady sent >> was the employment of William Davie, one of ours for sure. He was a >> clerk with the company when the Constitution was signed in Canada in >> 1867. On the bottom of the file was a note that said, "His >> Grandfather >> Also Served." Then they gave us the grandfather's file as well as many >> others dating well back to the 1700's. The first Governor of the >> company in the North West at Fort York was an Isbister, a common >> Orkney >> name, and one intermingled with our family and many others in the >> 1700's. >> >> One of the amazing stories was the John Gunn story, the chap who >> travelled by water and land and on snow to get to Fort York. He >> collapsed in the factor's house in the freezing night. When he began >> to >> scream, his coat was removed and it was discovered by his incredible >> chest configuration that John Gunn was a woman, Isobel (I think) in >> fact. She was looking for her boyfriend, and the screaming was an >> announcement of labour pains. She was a determined lady. She remained >> in the fort for years. >> >> Dutch, I have flown several times over that Hudson's Bay area east of >> Churchill, in a small floatplane. and the very thought of trying to >> squeak through the Hudson Strait pack ice in August in a wooden >> sailboat with no escape option is frightening to me. The shoreline is >> very inhospitable, and there is very little shelter from the wind and >> water, save as to river mouths. You sense an overwhelming feeling of >> being exposed to the elements in that country. I can't imagine how it >> would have imprinted on the mind and heart of a young teenager from >> Orkney. Once they boarded those boats, there was no turning back. They >> (HBC) have records of the boats that sank. Some of the boat names >> appear year after year for decades, sailing back and forth from home. >> >> I am familiar with Beaver and see it on the bookshelf still. Another >> good one in Up Here. How did you find a 1988 Beaver? >> >> Stephen- >>> The article I'm quoting from was written by Dr Glyndwr Williams >>> Head of >>> Dept & Prof of History Queen Mary College, Univ of London & former >>> general >>> editor of the Hudson's bay Record Society. The Beaver Magazine dates >>> from >>> autumn 1983. >>> Hearne's ( plus Isham & Graham) journals are primary sources for the >>> long >>> article-in fact the entire magazine is this article -in this special >>> issue >>> which I'm more than willing to pass along to you if you wish. >>> I have no HBC connections- my Thomsons & Burgars ( & Pottingers I >>> think) >>> emigrated to Nova Scotia only (as far as I can figure-although >>> there's >>> a 20 >>> year blank spot from around 1800-1820 when I have found written >>> records from >>> NS) >>> Life wasn't much better in NS at that time- lots of trees & bears, >>> but >>> no >>> factors barking out orders ! >>> I have 2 letters sent from family in Papa W & Kirkwall from 1823 & >>> 1832 >>> describing "this vast & howling wilderness" left behind-Orkney- which >>> might >>> well describe the weather there in the past 24-48 hrs ! >>> >>> cheers Thompson >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "stephen davie" <stephen.davie@sympatico.ca> >>> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 10:31 PM >>> Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] HBC >>> >>> >>>> Interesting About the Orcadian HBC Employee Stature >>>> >>>> At dinner a relative said our Orkneymen explorer relatives were all >>>> short and squat. I did a little research and discovered that as they >>>> did with our family, the HBC picked clean the Orkney landscape of >>>> young >>>> virile men, often numerous generations off the same farm. Then >>>> apparently rules were set in place to minimize the exodus. One of >>>> these >>>> rules was a height limitation. The result was many boys of twelve >>>> years >>>> or so were signed on. The reason therefore that many were short is >>>> simply that they were still children. >>>> >>>> The HBC have incredible records of Orkneymen. All their records were >>>> moved from London to Winnipeg and the Manitoba Museum does a good >>>> job >>>> of portraying the HBC. >>>> Interestingly enough, the natives respected the Orkney way, and the >>>> natives and Orcadians got on better than the Brits and the Scots. My >>>> relative, Andrew, was captured in Fort Prince of Wales in 1782 by >>>> the >>>> French. The Orkneymen on the post never fired a shot. They were >>>> treated >>>> with respect by their captors and set free. Among them was SAmuel >>>> Hearne.I suppose the alternative was to die for the British? >>>> >>>> Fascinating stuff. >>>> On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 05:46 AM, Dutch Thompson wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello- >>>>> From autumn 1983 The Beaver magazine, an article titled : "The >>>>> HBC >>>>> and the Fur Trade:1670-1870': >>>>> >>>>> " The rations served out to the men consisted of provisions from >>>>> England-salt pork & beef, flour, suet, peas, bacon, cheese, butter, >>>>> and oatmeal- together with geese, ptarmigan, venison, rabbit and >>>>> fish. >>>>> To the modern eye the amounts seem gargantuan. On Christmas Day, >>>>> 1705, >>>>> each mess of four men at Albany was given twenty pounds of flour, 2 >>>>> lb >>>>> of bacon, 8 pints of oatmeal, 2 pints of rice, 2 lb of raisins, 1/2 >>>>> lb >>>>> of currants, 8 lb of mutton, 3 fresh and 2 salted geese, one >>>>> 'piece' >>>>> of salt bread, 12 partridges, 4 lb of biscuit bread, 2 lb of >>>>> cheese, >>>>> 1 >>>>> 1/2 lb of butter, 3 lb of suet, and 60 fish. This was, the factor >>>>> concluded, rather more than usual, but it was matched by the list >>>>> given by Andrew Graham a half-century later of daily rations. >>>>> Graham >>>>> claimed...' the Orkney servants yearly send home to their wives and >>>>> children flour that they store up.' >>>>> If true, this was a bizzare stae of affairs, since the flour had >>>>> been >>>>> expensively shipped from England to the Bay only the previous >>>>> year. " >>>>> >>>>> " The patent unsuitability for hard work of many of those >>>>> prepared >>>>> to sign on for Hudson Bay was one reason for the Company's decision >>>>> to >>>>> hire, first, Lowland Scots, and then Orkneymen, in increasing >>>>> numbers. >>>>> If dour and clannish, the later were hardier and more reliable than >>>>> the general run of urbanized labourers, and by the 1730s most of >>>>> the >>>>> Company's labourers and some of the craftsmen came from the Orkneys >>>>> (sic)-a regular port of call for the Company ships on their voyage >>>>> from the Thames'north about' to the Bay... >>>>> ...the French Wars from 1793 onwards came as a heavy blow. >>>>> European wars had always broght their own difficulties to the >>>>> HBC...above all a shorage of manpower. The British navy's demand >>>>> for >>>>> seamen drew many Orkneymen onto the service, and this hit the >>>>> Company >>>>> hard, for they were now providing 3/4 of the workforce in the >>>>> Bay-390 >>>>> out of 498 officers and men in 1800. If David Thompson is to be >>>>> believed, by about 1796 the Orkneymen reaching York in the annual >>>>> ship >>>>> were few in number and small in stature-so much so that the Indian >>>>> wife of one of the Company servants challenged him with the >>>>> observation: ' have you not always told me, that the people in your >>>>> country are as numerous as the leaves on the trees, how can you >>>>> speak >>>>> such a falsehood, do we not see plainly that the very last of them >>>>> is >>>>> come, if there were any more would these dwarfs have come here.' >>>>> >>>>> cheers Thompson >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >>>>> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with >>>>> the >>>>> word >>>>> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >>>> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with >>>> the >>>> word >>>> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >>> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the >>> word >>> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >>> >> >> >> ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >> To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the >> word >> 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >> >> > > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

An old document refers to land as being in Birsay Stewartry – at least that is how I read it. Could this be correct? What does it mean? Alan S --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.614 / Virus Database: 393 - Release Date: 5/03/2004

well, on Scotland Mainland a "stewartry" in general is a term applied to any area which was crown property and administered by a "steward" (rather than a "sheriff") as were Strathearne and Mentieth after the annexation by James I, ... after the end of the Stewart Earls of Orkney the term was applied to the similar situation in Orkney & Shetland as well ... But, Sigurd, as far as I know, the Stewart properties in Orkney included much more than the lands in Birsay and that brings me up to the question whether or not the "Birsay stewartry" for a topographic area is a term more or less synonymous to "The Barony" (Baron of Birsay as heir of the modern Earls of Orkney) and "stewartry" simply meaning "in the hands/management of the Earl's family" ... although this tradition may have started with the Stewart Earl's as well ... :-)

On 07 March 2004 20:33, AlanS wrote: > An old document refers to land as being in Birsay Stewartry - > at least that is how I read it. Probably land owned by the infamous Stewart Earls. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk

----- Original Message ----- From: "AlanS" <alan.spence@xtra.co.nz> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 8:32 PM Subject: [<orcadia>] Birsay Stewartry? > An old document refers to land as being in Birsay Stewartry – at least that > is how I read it. > > Could this be correct? > > What does it mean? > The Earldom of Orkney was given to Earl Robert Stewart, illegitimate son of King James V of Scotland and half brother to Mary, Queen of Scots. He built a "palace" in Birsay in the early 1570s, which was finished by his son Patrick. Robert was a tyrant - Patrick was ten times worse. Patrick also built the Earl's Palace in Kirkwall and Scalloway Castle in Shetland. Patrick had a son called Robert who led an armed rebellion against James VI of Scotland - not a good career move. Both he and his father ended up being executed in 1615 I suspect the Stewartry referred to is land once owned by the Stewart earls. -- Mike Clouston

Dear Stephen: Don't worry about the kilt (tartan) or shield..Canorkies (Canorkites) will catch on to this identification and distinction, and something is bound to turn up. If you are looking deeper into this I wonder if you or any others here could research if there are Indorkies out there? Best Regards. Vikram Rawal/ USA.

According to the new symphony schedule, "An Orkney Wedding with Sunrise" will be performed Oct. 22, 23 and 24 at Copley Hall, along with Bruch's Scottish Fantasy and Mendelssohn's Scottish Symphony (No. 3). Peggy

I have described myself and others as being Canorky (Canorkies in plural) as a brief and recognizable was of saying (Canadian person with family roots or ties that extend to Orkney). It has saved me a lot of strokes on the keyboard. Offline, I have discussed with other friends and indeed relatives I met on this site from the US and Australia, the apparent need of similar description of our American and Australian friends. Would Amerorky and Austrorky do for our Amerorcadian and Austrorcadian counterparts? Maybe Aussiorky and Yankorky are a little too casual, while they are a touch more chique. My thought is, that as we have no kilt to wear, and no family shield to hang over the fireplace, the least we could do is have a descriptive one-word definition of who we are insofar as our heritage is concerned, and this intriguing new title could define our being to others, instantly. This little reward seems appropriate for all who struggle to learn more of Orkney and our collective heritage, notwithstanding the long miles that separate us from that wonderful place. Maybe we will need a poll from each of the nation groups, which will include others. Must be lots of Britorkies out there, and a Spanorky turned up recently. Gosh! Stephen (Canorky)