On 11 March 2004 21:58, Jan Nary wrote: > I don't know if there > was a similar > experience in Orkney - Sigurd? There was indeed. I just learned on Sunday that my great-great-great grandparents were evicted from their home on Hoy because the laird/landowner wanted the land for sheep. As Wolfgang said earlier the best known examples of these clearances took place on Rousay and Shapinsay but aside from the incidents I know took place (Hoy and Firth) there were probably other such occurrences. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk

At 01:04 AM 3/13/2004 +0000, Sigurd wrote: >As Wolfgang said earlier the best known examples of these clearances >took place on Rousay and Shapinsay but aside from the incidents I know >took place (Hoy and Firth) there were probably other such occurrences. Where can I find out more about the clearances on Shapinsay? Any books to recommend? Alan HEPBURN

Thanks Wolfgang -and Trish! Jan At 09:24 AM 12/03/2004, you wrote: >Hello! > > >>>the land clearances of farmers from Scotland. I don't know if there was a >similar >experience in Orkney ... > >Well there were similar clearances in Orkney (Quendale/Rousay or Shapinsay) >but with regard to the things that happened on Scotland mainland there were >no such things as "Driven out by fire and flame / From land that bore their >father's name ..." [probably reflecting the 'Sutherland burnings'] > >According to "The Crofters' War" the Napier Reports "critizied" the >developments on Rousay as (my words) minor events but highlighted as >positive examples the "Balfour approach" and the developments on Shapinsay. > >... but Sigurd should know better :-) > > >==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word >'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com Jan Nary 31 Leybourne St, Chelmer Queensland 4068 Publicist & Journalist National Folk Festival Publicist <http://www.folkfestival.asn.au/>http://www.folkfestival.asn.au/ Co-host Acoustic Harvest Bay FM 100.3 <http://www.bayfm.org.au/>http://www.bayfm.org.au/ tel. 44 7 3379 4178 fax 447 3278 2360 mob. 0429 898 328 UK 07905 976 173

Hi, All.! The ongoing interest in Orcadian roots from the folk in Canada makes me wonder if it's appropriate to post on the list the words of song. It's on a new CD release "Goin' Home", written by Gibb Todd, a Scot recently emigrated to Australia. Called "Canada" it's about the whole process of upheaval, removal and putting down roots into new soil -in this case, Canadian soil. Gibb was moved to write it after researching the land clearances of farmers from Scotland. I don't know if there was a similar experience in Orkney - Sigurd? but I suppose people driven from their homes - be it by a landlord or financial need - would have shared experiences. Even without the music the words are beautiful, I think - the song makes me cry and I'm not Orcadian , Scottish or Canadian! Perhaps they'll strike a chord. Cheers, Jan (Brisbane) CANADA From a burned and broken land And desolation all around All the ancient ways are gone By landlord’s greed undone Their homes to see no more Forever As they stared across the sea In terrible uncertainty Through the mist the pibroch sound We shall return no more With broken dreams they sailed To Canada Loud and long the women wailed Great is the sorrow of the gael Men bound up like beasts of toil Herded from their native soil Their glens to see no more Forever Driven out by fire and flame From land that bore their father’s name Now the great sheep walk the glen Where once grew the fields of men Who are all gone away To Canada So far away to Canada Far away to Canada In ships not worth of their name Through the oceans storms they came Many died, the strong survived And barely reached the land alive Their shores to see no more Forever They cut the forest and cleared the stone From wild country that they made their own Through hard times and sacrifice Remembering how they paid the price When first their fathers came To Canada Now the grandsons of grandsons Return to the ancestral home With their music and their song And memories of time long gone They will cherish them Forever In pride the celebrate their blood In footsteps where the old ones stood And think how it must have been Forever gone a broken dream And they go home again To Canada So far away to Canada Far away to Canada Then they go home again To Canada © Gibb Todd 2003 Compass Records

Hello! >>>the land clearances of farmers from Scotland. I don't know if there was a similar experience in Orkney ... Well there were similar clearances in Orkney (Quendale/Rousay or Shapinsay) but with regard to the things that happened on Scotland mainland there were no such things as "Driven out by fire and flame / From land that bore their father's name ..." [probably reflecting the 'Sutherland burnings'] According to "The Crofters' War" the Napier Reports "critizied" the developments on Rousay as (my words) minor events but highlighted as positive examples the "Balfour approach" and the developments on Shapinsay. ... but Sigurd should know better :-)

Thank you very much for bringing up this subject, as St. Magnus has been what has occupied my mind for many months now. Since I was studying about the hymn written in his praise, all info relating to this person is welcome indeed. Thanks again, very much! Susan in Yakima, USA

Very touching. Thanks for sharing, Jan. Trish ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Nary" <jnarypr@gil.com.au> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:58 PM Subject: [<orcadia>] Canada > Hi, All.! The ongoing interest in Orcadian roots from the folk in Canada > makes me wonder if it's appropriate to post on the list the words of song. > It's on a new CD release "Goin' Home", written by Gibb Todd, a Scot > recently emigrated to Australia. Called "Canada" it's about the whole > process of upheaval, removal and putting down roots into new soil -in this > case, Canadian soil. Gibb was moved to write it after researching the land > clearances of farmers from Scotland. I don't know if there was a similar > experience in Orkney - Sigurd? but I suppose people driven from their homes > - be it by a landlord or financial need - would have shared experiences. > Even without the music the words are beautiful, I think - the song makes me > cry and I'm not Orcadian , Scottish or Canadian! Perhaps they'll strike a > chord. > Cheers, > Jan (Brisbane) > > > CANADA > > From a burned and broken land > And desolation all around > All the ancient ways are gone > By landlord’s greed undone > Their homes to see no more > Forever > > As they stared across the sea > In terrible uncertainty > Through the mist the pibroch sound > We shall return no more > With broken dreams they sailed > To Canada > > Loud and long the women wailed > Great is the sorrow of the gael > Men bound up like beasts of toil > Herded from their native soil > Their glens to see no more > Forever > > Driven out by fire and flame > From land that bore their father’s name > Now the great sheep walk the glen > Where once grew the fields of men > Who are all gone away > To Canada > > So far away to Canada > Far away to Canada > > In ships not worth of their name > Through the oceans storms they came > Many died, the strong survived > And barely reached the land alive > Their shores to see no more > Forever > > They cut the forest and cleared the stone > From wild country that they made their own > Through hard times and sacrifice > Remembering how they paid the price > When first their fathers came > To Canada > > Now the grandsons of grandsons > Return to the ancestral home > With their music and their song > And memories of time long gone > They will cherish them > Forever > > In pride the celebrate their blood > In footsteps where the old ones stood > And think how it must have been > Forever gone a broken dream > And they go home again > To Canada > > So far away to Canada > Far away to Canada > > Then they go home again > To Canada > > © Gibb Todd 2003 > Compass Records > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

<quote from "The Orcadian" web site> The Orcadian Online fully operational Following the technical problems on Tuesday night, The Orcadian Online is once again fully operational. All search and contact functions are now back up and running, along with our secure Orkney bookshop. We apologise for any inconvenience. <unquote> Well done Sigurd - bet you had fun :-) -- Mike Clouston

Well, may be or not . But let us think about the parallels GMB drew about the sceene in one of his novels . There is a victim . His eyes looked up "into" the heaven . . or into the eyes of his "murder" . ... or praying . down to his knees . ??? There is the "butcher", obviously trained to slaughter a sheep or bull . Why should such a guy need two "hits" or "blows" . to kill a man? Because of the fact, that the "sheep" looks up to the sky, the "bull" into his eyes or the "innocent" down to the ground . ??? ... and taking all that into acount there are some "three over three over two over two over two" (sorry, I don't know the proper English formular) possibilities about the fact where the marks could be and what they should look alike like that actually found on the skull. Despite all the other facts . the date of starting the building of St Magnus, the position where the "bones" were placed, the way how they where inshrined . ??? Despite all that, I (personally spoken) think, it's better to believe than to know .

In March 1919 a wooden box containing a skull and bones was found during extensive renovation work in St Magnus Cathedral. The skull, which showed clear signs of injury, was heralded as that of Saint Magnus - the martyr of Orkney who was murdered at Easter 1117. But are the remains actually those of the Orkney saint? Not necessarily, says the eminent archaeologist Professor Don Brothwell, who has concluded that the damage to the skull does not match the Orkneyinga Saga's account of the murder of Magnus on Egilsay in 1117. Full story at http://www.orkneyjar.com/archaeology/magnusremains.htm -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk

Thank you Wolfgang for "Despite all that, I (personally spoken) think, it's better to believe than to know ." I've no problem with academic speculation, or scientific research, but they will both be creating debates on this question long after my bones and gone to....oh, my, after that article I'm not sure where I want them to go--hidden well, I think. The article says-- "As such it is either not Magnus' skull, or the saga's version of events is not correct." Logic also leaves the possibility that neither is correct. But if I have to live with one until better evidence arrives for the other, I never thought the Sagas were meant to be eye witness accounts, recorded just as we read them today, written at the time of the incident so that no details got blurred. Karen

In a message dated 3/10/2004 5:14:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, sigurd@orkneyjar.com writes: > http://www.orkneyjar.com/archaeology/magnusremains.htm Thank you so much Sigurd. This is very interesting, and I have enjoyed reading it.. Beth Greenville, SC, USA

Hi: I have all the time you need to help unload my Isbister files. some of this information I just received from Orkney. I will be away this weekend, but i am generally around. I found an Isbister relative in Aurstralia, and a few elsewhere, including one in Orkney. Stephen On Tuesday, March 9, 2004, at 07:15 AM, J. Harold Ivester wrote: > Stephen, > Our Ivester ancestor, Hugh Isbister, came from Orkney to Savannah, > Georgia in 1775, the only Isbister to come to the South that I am > aware of > (and I've done tons of research). We went back to Orkney in 1996, the > first > of Hugh's descendents to do so, arriving in Stromess, where Hugh > departed as > an indentured servant of Col. Thomas Browne - a famous Loyalist here in > Georgia. The story is fascinating and I'll tell you more if you are > interested. Am sending this to you off-line since it is more genealogy > than > Orkney related. Don't have much time now so will talk to you later > > Janice Ivester > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

As Geoffrey correctly says, Franklin's ships are specifically mentioned on the plaque alongside Login's Well. Login was a shipping agent with his offices just across the road from the well. Ships would have sent men ashore to fill their water barrels from his well. No piped water in those days. The plaque actually reads <quote> There watered here the Hudson Bay Coy's ships 1670 - 1891. Capt. Cook's vessels Resolution and Discovery 1780. Sir John Franklin's ships Erebus and Terror on Arctic Exploration 1845. Also the merchant vessels of former days Well sealed up 1931. <unquote> In the book "Sea Haven - Stromness in the Orkney Islands" it states "Elaborately equipped by the Admiralty, Sir John Franklin's ships, Erebus and Terror, had made Stromness their last port of call in 1846, before seeking the elusive North-West Passage to the Orient." Dr. John Rae, a son of the Hudson Bay Coy's agent in Stromness, was sent to the North West Territories by the HBC and explored huge tracts of the west coast of Hudson Bay, the Gulf of Boothia and the Mackenzie river. He discovered from the Eskimos the fate of Franklin's ships and men. Because Rae had "gone native" and used Eskimo techniques to survive the harsh climate and adopted their clothing he was not accepted by the Victorian establishment back in the UK. He remains largely unhonoured, even in Orkney, apart from a tomb in St. Magnus Cathedral, and having a sheltered housing scheme in Stromness named after him! His birthplace, the Hall of Clestrain, stands in ruins. A terrible indictment really. His face didn't fit so no rewards for Dr. John Rae. -- Mike Clouston

Which never happened, the salvage operation or the plan to dye local wool (or both)? The article I read was in the March/April 2004 issue of "The Highlander" magazine. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sigurd Towrie" <sigurd@orkneyjar.com> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, 09 March, 2004 2:23 PM Subject: RE: [<orcadia>] Shipwreck > On 09 March 2004 17:02, Dan wrote: > > > I recently read an article about plans to salvage a 300 > > year old shipwreck off the coast of North Ronaldsay that > > contains a cargo of Indian dyewood. If possible, the > > Islanders then want to use the wood to make dye to color > > local wool products for market. Does anyone have an update on > > this story or more information? > > Not much to report really other than it never happened. > > -- > Sigurd Towrie > Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney > Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com > Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com > Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

Hi- I'm nit-picking here, but last night here in Canada on the History TV channel there was a story about Franklin's 1848 voyage to find the Northwest passage. I missed most of the show but managed to catch a glimpse of the route superimposed on a map of northern Europe/north Atlantic...and it showed his 2 ships-Terror & Arabus ?- heading from London through the English Channel and then across past Iceland to Hudson's Bay. I had always thought he'd gone up along the east coast of Britain and stopped in Stromness before carrying on to North Amer. Am I wrong ? cheers Thompson

No, you a re quite right - he did stop in Stromness, as the inscription on Login's Well, Stromness, testifies. Franklin was inept, and when he vanished, his foolish young wife spent a fortune trying to find the truth of the last expedition. She refused to accept the truthful account of Dr. John Rae, and was unpleasant about him, as was Dickens. Now it is known that Rae, also from Stromness was correct in his conclusions. Yours, Geoffrey Elborn

I remember reading an article on this possibly either in Scotland on Sunday or the Sunday Times about a year ago. Was it a hoax? Robin Edinburgh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sigurd Towrie" <sigurd@orkneyjar.com> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: RE: [<orcadia>] Shipwreck > On 09 March 2004 17:02, Dan wrote: > > > I recently read an article about plans to salvage a 300 > > year old shipwreck off the coast of North Ronaldsay that > > contains a cargo of Indian dyewood. If possible, the > > Islanders then want to use the wood to make dye to color > > local wool products for market. Does anyone have an update on > > this story or more information? > > Not much to report really other than it never happened. > > -- > Sigurd Towrie > Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney > Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com > Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com > Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >

On 09 March 2004 19:42, Mike Clouston wrote: > "The Orcadian" web site seems to have a fault as well as it > is showing > last Saturday's news page and I can't get into the archives > at all. Where did you read this article and how long ago was it? I've just been informed of server problems due to the volumes of spam and "virused" emails doing the rounds. As a result our webhosts have reverted to a backup (hence Saturday's news). Looks like I'll be having a fun day tomorrow. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk

On 09 March 2004 17:02, Dan wrote: > I recently read an article about plans to salvage a 300 > year old shipwreck off the coast of North Ronaldsay that > contains a cargo of Indian dyewood. If possible, the > Islanders then want to use the wood to make dye to color > local wool products for market. Does anyone have an update on > this story or more information? Not much to report really other than it never happened. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk