On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:00:09 +0100, Andy Sweet wrote: > could anyone tell me if there is an Arsdale in Orkney? and what (if > any) link there is with the one in Sweden? someone on another list > is wanting to know Answering late as usual but Arsdale is in the Mainland parish of Rendall. As to its connection with Sweden, there probably isn't one other than the toponymic element. Early records show the name as Airsdale which would imply the first element derives from the Old Norse eyrr - a gravel or sand bar (but often found referring to gravelly beaches). The second element translates roughly as valley. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Email: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com

> I'm pretty sure that I passed an Arsdale farm somewhere on the north > coast towards Birsay. No idea about Sweden, though. Lower Arsdale. When in doubt, ask CANMORE (or one of its derivatives). :-) http://www.rcahms.gov.uk/ows-bin/owa/details?inumlink=2222 M -- Martin McCarthy /</ http://www.non-prophet.org marty@ancient-scotland.co.uk \>\ http://www.ancient-scotland.co.uk /</ http://www.ehabitat.demon.co.uk

> could anyone tell me if there is an Arsdale in Orkney? and what (if > any) link there is with the one in Sweden? someone on another list is > wanting to know I'm pretty sure that I passed an Arsdale farm somewhere on the north coast towards Birsay. No idea about Sweden, though. M -- Martin McCarthy /</ http://www.non-prophet.org marty@ancient-scotland.co.uk \>\ http://www.ancient-scotland.co.uk /</ http://www.ehabitat.demon.co.uk

Many thanks for all the good wishes. Our furniture did arrive safely on Friday. The removal firm (McAdie & Reeve) had unloaded our effects before 5 pm. Now all we have to do is unpack the boxes and find out what we have got and decide where it is to be put. How we manage to fit all this into our previous house is a mystery. We shall most certainly enjoy our retirement here, everyone is so friendly and helpful. Although we only arrived on Wednesday evening by Thursday lunch-time we had already had several visitors wishing us well in our new home including one lady who brought Maureen a vase of daffodils. -- Bruce Fletcher Stronsay, Orkney

Hi, could anyone tell me if there is an Arsdale in Orkney? and what (if any) link there is with the one in Sweden? someone on another list is wanting to know Cheers Andy The Megalithic sites of Perthshire: http://www.andysweet.co.uk/stones/ Begin forwarded message: > I am currently reading through some mid eighteenth-century medical > histories. I've come across a reference to ARSDALE and cannot seem to > find this location on any maps. Based on the reference, it looks like > it might be somewhere in the Orkneys. But my research has also found > that there is an Arsdale on the island of Bornholm, which is 37 km off > the coast of Sweden. Any suggestions? > > Yours, > Matthew

>>> Yes but these Ahrensburgian Points are more than 10,000 years old - millennia before the supposed arrival of the Picts from Scandinavia. Dating from the very early Mesolithic. Living just a couple of miles away from the namegiving town of Ahrensburg and the major sites I can say that according to modern standards we here use the term "Ahrensburgian" for some time between 18,000 BC and 12,000 BC - so palaeolithic or very, very, very early mesolithic ... at least on Mainland Europe ... >>> But despite looking for sites relating to this period archaeologists have (so far) found nothing which has led to the idea that these microliths are not representative of a mass settlement ... absolutely right ... small numbered hunting and gathering communities with absolutely no indications of any form of tribal organisation or permanent residence in one place/area ... only rough indication of different types of summer and winter camps of some kind ... >>> Instead, it is thought, they represent traces of small hunting parties moving by sea. May be or not. But if I got the more recent research results about the early population of the British Isles based on genetic research right, (palaeolithic? and/or) early mesolithic population of the British Isles started from an area we roughly can describe as Friesland (the border area between what is now The Netherlands and Germany); at least by migrating (that were "walking") people living west of the river Elbe and the mouth of the Elbe that changed its position to the region north of Dogger Banks at this time ... >>> Further I believe Dr Richard Cox, has translated Pictish Ogham >>> using an archaic form of Norse, I do not know if this is recognised > >>or supported by others or not? >>His book on the subject was published in 1999 or 2000 but has not been widely accepted by academia. As usual with >>anything related to the Picts there is always considerable argument ... Well - as I see to it: Cox's publication offers some more interesting ideas to identify a couple of individual/personal names as far as they are (probably) of Norse origin including both, Norse adoptions of Pictish names or Pictish adoptions of Norse names ... :-). Out of the rest: 25% are agreed standard, 50% are well done speculations and 25% are nonesense - at least in linguistic terms ... (I have to admitt that my studies in general linguistics took place in the early 1970s but as far as Germanic languages are concerned there was not that much change in general findings ... :-))

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 05:44:07 -0800 (PST), dennis herdina wrote: > Sigurd, Are there any traces still extant of these prehistoric > peoples prior to the Picts? and if so where? Everywhere you look. Brochs, wheelhouses, earth-houses for the Iron Age, chambered cairns. henges, stone circles for the Neolithic.... -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Email: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 19:31:04 +1000, Palden wrote: > If we uphold an indigenous origin for the Picts then in terms of > migration and settlement in Scotland, we see Ahrenburgian Microlith > finds in various places in Scotland suggesting early migration from > Southern Scandinavia. Yes but these Ahrensburgian Points are more than 10,000 years old - millennia before the supposed arrival of the Picts from Scandinavia. Dating from the very early Mesolithic. By 11,000 BC Scotland was was effectively free of ice and habitable but the only potential evidence of human presence are two examples of the characteristic Ahrensburgian points, found on Tiree and Wester Ross. But despite looking for sites relating to this period archaeologists have (so far) found nothing which has led to the idea that these microliths are not representative of a mass settlement but merely the remnants of small groups of people moving across the landscape but not establishing large or long-standing camps. Instead, it is thought, they represent traces of small hunting parties moving by sea. > Further I believe Dr Richard Cox, has translated Pictish Ogham > using an archaic form of Norse, I do not know if this is recognised > or supported by others or not? His book on the subject was published in 1999 or 2000 but has not been widely accepted by academia. As usual with anything related to the Picts there is always considerable argument (or should that be debate?) over most aspects. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Email: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com

Dear Sigurd, Thank you for your e-mail. If we uphold an indigenous origin for the Picts then in terms of migration and settlement in Scotland, we see Ahrenburgian Microlith finds in various places in Scotland suggesting early migration from Southern Scandinavia. Further I believe Dr Richard Cox, has translated Pictish Ogham using an archaic form of Norse, I do not know if this is recognised or supported by others or not? This is of some interest, and I would like to hear your opinion's either way. All the best. Grant South ----- Original Message ----- From: Sigurd Towrie To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] The Picts On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:57:08 +1000, Palden wrote: > What evidence survives to support the belief that Picts were from > Scandinavia? None. A Scandinavian origin for the Picts is a theory that fell out of favour many years ago, overtaken by archaeological and historical research. The few early documents concerning the Picts attribute them to Thrace ot Scythia (which some try to equate with Scandinavia - hence the origin of the theory), but it is generally accepted these days that "the Picts" were not a "new race" but were the descendants of the prehistoric people of Northern Scotland. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Email: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com

Hi to all on the List! I have joined to discuss what is known about the Picts and their Norse origins. This may have been spoken about previously on the list, but I would like to revisit this subject anew, if I may, and collect your thoughts on the matter. What evidence survives to support the belief that Picts were from Scandinavia? Does Ogham script on Pictish stones reflect our Gaelic maternal cultural influences. I look forward to your replies. Grant South FSA Scot.

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:57:08 +1000, Palden wrote: > Does Ogham script on Pictish stones reflect our Gaelic maternal > cultural influences. Ogham script was developed in Ireland, and from there is thought to have spread into Mainland Scotland - possibly with the spread of Christianity. The Picts adopted/adapted it for their own use. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Email: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:57:08 +1000, Palden wrote: > What evidence survives to support the belief that Picts were from > Scandinavia? None. A Scandinavian origin for the Picts is a theory that fell out of favour many years ago, overtaken by archaeological and historical research. The few early documents concerning the Picts attribute them to Thrace ot Scythia (which some try to equate with Scandinavia - hence the origin of the theory), but it is generally accepted these days that "the Picts" were not a "new race" but were the descendants of the prehistoric people of Northern Scotland. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Email: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com

Sigurd, Are there any traces still extant of these prehistoric peoples prior to the Picts? and if so where? FMFDOC6@YAHOO.COM Sigurd Towrie <sigurd@orkneyjar.com> wrote: On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:57:08 +1000, Palden wrote: > What evidence survives to support the belief that Picts were from > Scandinavia? None. A Scandinavian origin for the Picts is a theory that fell out of favour many years ago, overtaken by archaeological and historical research. The few early documents concerning the Picts attribute them to Thrace ot Scythia (which some try to equate with Scandinavia - hence the origin of the theory), but it is generally accepted these days that "the Picts" were not a "new race" but were the descendants of the prehistoric people of Northern Scotland. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Email: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com Always forbidden on occasion mandatory MAHALO Dennis --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today

Well done to you, I hope everything arrives on time...or it should have by now! Good Luck Janis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Fletcher (Orkney)" <ricardian@btinternet.com> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:40 PM Subject: [<orcadia>] New arrival on Stronsay > Just a short note to let anyone interested know that we have now > (eventually) arrived on Stronsay and hope to have household goods > arrive, courtesy of McAdie & Reeve, on the ferry tomorrow (Friday) > lunchtime. > -- > Bruce Fletcher > Stronsay, Orkney > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:44:47 +0100, Robin Sutherland wrote: > And so amongst other things I was wondering if anyone can tell me > what happened to the Westray Skiff project? The website hasn't > been updated since early last year, can anyone tell me if the > project was ever completed? As far as I am aware it was. The skiff was officially named at Gills Pier on Westray in July 2003. -- Sigurd Towrie

Hi Bruce, Yes very interested to hear you've arrived at your new home in Orkney - what are you and your family's first impressions of Stronsay?? Hope all worldly goods arrive safely on the ferry today. Best wishes for a happy future up there, Fiona (York UK) >From: "Bruce Fletcher (Orkney)" <ricardian@btinternet.com> >Reply-To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com >To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [<orcadia>] New arrival on Stronsay >Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 20:40:10 +0100 > >Just a short note to let anyone interested know that we have now >(eventually) arrived on Stronsay and hope to have household goods arrive, >courtesy of McAdie & Reeve, on the ferry tomorrow (Friday) lunchtime. >-- >Bruce Fletcher >Stronsay, Orkney > > >==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word >'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

Try, http://www.westray-orkney.co.uk Jim Corse.

Hope everything has gone well today with the move Bruce. We'll be looking forward to hearing from you about life on Stronsay. Have a wonderful weekend in your new home. Karen English Memphis

In a message dated 4/1/04 11:46:04 PM, robinsutherland@hotmail.com writes: << And so amongst other things I was wondering if anyone can tell me what happened to the Westray Skiff project? The website hasn't been updated since early last year, can anyone tell me if the project was ever completed? Also I'm interested in finding out more about the history of the skiffs and the ones that are still around today. Cheers, Robin Sutherland >> The skiff was completed and sailed in last year's points races. There is a page of descriptions of most of the known skiffs and I will send it to you off line when I remember where it is!! Some of the boats have been pulled out of storage and the work of getting them ready for this year's races has started. The regatta will be here before we know it. Jim Corse.

Sigurd - Is there a link to the Westray Skiff Project somewhere? Jim D