I agree that killing seals in front of their mothers is cruel, but how pertinent is it to Orkney history, tradition, and lore in the current context? Anne Slater

Hi Stephen! As a regular visitor to the Islands I'm happy to say that they (try to) keep them as a tourist attraction and don't "harvest" them. (Despite some bustards who shoot with no regard pubs and/or breading mothers and who may be called before the procurator fiscal). I don't agree with all the attitudes of the "anti-fur folks", as you call them, but as far as the oil is concerned: Some Inuit may need it, some Faeroese may want it - and they may harvest seals (in accordance with all the major environment associations); but "we" neither in Europe nor in Canada "need" it ... so there ist no reason for harvesting them for oil. ... and as far as the fishermen are concerned: If a single seal or any seal population in any region will be a risk for a single fisherman or a fishing community within that said region, it is nothing else but one of our home-baked problems on planet Earth: We - the human folks - and not they - the selkies - have taken to much fish from the waters ... :-) cu Wolfgang

Hi Wolfgang: That is about my sentiments as well. I don't have a problem with a fur coat ( Beaver, racoon etc.). And I don't object to a goose dinner. But in truth if you ever saw first hand what a seal "harvest ' looks like, it mellows the coldest of hearts. They basically go onto the ice flows and whack the little critters to death with a club, while the mothers painfully watch. If they took adults in accordance with some rational formula, it wouldn't be as gross. Some of the oils of seals and whales still is a sort of item. Lipstick and other cosmetics for example employ mink oil and others. Not sure about seals. But you never see a picture of a mink in the fashion ads. What sparked my interest was the goose numbers that were quoted as staging on one of the small northern islands . Where I live, there are so many that everyone wants them reduced. The new name for a Canada Goose, that icon of the north, in southern Ontario at least is now a "nuisance" goose, unless it can be identified as a bird just visiting in migration season, a feathered tourist kinda. Parks, grain fields, beaches, everywhere you look, huge ugly goose dung. Point is, in Orkney I see these fields of grain waving in the wind, and wonder if those thousands of birds have acquired a taste for bere. If they haven't as yet, bets are on. When a big flock pounds on a grain field for a day or two, the farmer has a right to be concerned. Your point about fishing is well taken. I suppose the fish farmers from time to time have their days with the seals. and yes, in this country, we have stood by while the famous Grand Banks have been dragnetted into a biological desert, compared to what they were. Yours truly: Stephen On Thursday, October 21, 2004, at 03:59 PM, Wolfgang Schlick wrote: > Hi Stephen! > > As a regular visitor to the Islands I'm happy to say that they (try > to) keep > them as a tourist attraction and don't "harvest" them. (Despite some > bustards who shoot with no regard pubs and/or breading mothers and who > may > be called before the procurator fiscal). > I don't agree with all the attitudes of the "anti-fur folks", as you > call > them, but as far as the oil is concerned: > Some Inuit may need it, some Faeroese may want it - and they may > harvest > seals (in accordance with all the major environment associations); but > "we" > neither in Europe nor in Canada "need" it ... so there ist no reason > for > harvesting them for oil. > ... and as far as the fishermen are concerned: If a single seal or any > seal > population in any region will be a risk for a single fisherman or a > fishing > community within that said region, it is nothing else but one of our > home-baked problems on planet Earth: We - the human folks - and not > they - > the selkies - have taken to much fish from the waters ... :-) > > cu > Wolfgang > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the > word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com >

I observed that on one of the small islands in Orkney I am visiting, geese stage in particular in the fall of the year. In this country and in the US they are hunted. Are they hunted in Orkney? Same as to seals. In this part of the world, the fishermen support the notion of a balanced seal population, which gives rise to an annual "harvest' which ends up with anti-fur folks interfering with the hunt. How do they control seals in Orkney? Are they harvested for their hides and oil? Thanks: Stephen

There's also a new title out there dealing with "Eskimos in Europe" which, I believe, covers Orkney's 17th Century Finfolk sightings. I've not been able to find details of this book online though. -- Sigurd Towrie ___________________________________________ Sigurd, have a look at this page http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf087/sf087a03.htm It refers to a book which might be the one >>THE AMERICAN DISCOVERY OF EUROPE! Quote: Inuits (Eskimos) are said to have landed in the Orkneys, off Scotland. Old Inuit harpoon heads have been dug up in Ireland and Scotland.

It's been a while since I posted an update of new books available.... Trace Your Orkney Ancestors by James Irvine The Fungus Flora of Orkney Braes Woodland Diary: The First Ten Years : Charting the progress and involvement of the Rousay community in growing trees. The Scottish Islands by By Hamish Haswell-Smith A new, third edition, of the "acknowledged Rosetta Stone of island hopping". Hawkfall and other stories : A collection of eleven George Mackay Brown stories, first published in 1974. All the above available from www.orcadian.co.uk/orkneybooks Also of interest is: Civilization One by Christopher Knight/Alan Butler : Pushing back the veil of civilization, the authors identify the contours of an advanced culture in Britain that predates the Egyptians, using a field of megaliths to draw conclusions about their capacity to make complicated measurements of celestial and earthly dimensions. There's also a new title out there dealing with "Eskimos in Europe" which, I believe, covers Orkney's 17th Century Finfolk sightings. I've not been able to find details of this book online though. -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk

ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com writes: >which program does one listen to *.ram files? >i have a one-year old WINXP machine (state-of-the-art) and Windows Media >Player will not open the *.ram file Go to <http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/help/> and then read "How to listen to Radio 4 on the web". -- Bruce Fletcher Stronsay, Orkney http://www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont http://www.caytonwitheastfield.btinternet.co.uk "Dogs have owners, cats have staff"

Bill, Real Player will open these (the free one will do) Ian -----Original Message----- From: Bill Irvine [mailto:wji@shaw.ca] Sent: 15 October 2004 16:09 To: ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [<orcadia>] Radio 4 - Papa Stronsay thnx for the headsup which program does one listen to *.ram files? i have a one-year old WINXP machine (state-of-the-art) and Windows Media Player will not open the *.ram file thnx bill ----- Original Message ----- From: KJEMEM@aol.com Date: Friday, October 15, 2004 4:35 am Subject: [<orcadia>] Radio 4 - Papa Stronsay > If you missed the live broadcast of the program on the monastery > (It was > 5am over here!) it's available on Radio 4's online "Listen Again" > page click on > "Age Old Habits" > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml > > Karen > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with > the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com

Thanks, Karen, just listened and enjoyed it. Nicely produced programme which let the monks speak for themselves and evoked that chill northern isle a treat. highly recommended. Lyn ----- Original Message ----- From: <KJEMEM@aol.com> To: <ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 12:35 PM Subject: [<orcadia>] Radio 4 - Papa Stronsay > If you missed the live broadcast of the program on the monastery (It was > 5am over here!) it's available on Radio 4's online "Listen Again" page click on > "Age Old Habits" > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml > > Karen > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > > >

ORCADIA-L@rootsweb.com writes: >If you missed the live broadcast of the program on the monastery (It was >5am over here!) it's available on Radio 4's online "Listen Again" page >click on >"Age Old Habits" Have just listened to the online version from Radio 4 website. Excellent good sound quality and good stereo seperation, I even recognised a couple of the voices. And a sensible approach to the Transalpine Redemptorist philosophy. -- Bruce Fletcher Stronsay, Orkney http://www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont http://www.caytonwitheastfield.btinternet.co.uk "Dogs have owners, cats have staff"

Any of you Orkney music fans who are down London way, I just got an email from Royal Festival Hall that the Wrigley Sisters will be playing free in the Foyer on the 21st. I'm sure it would be great to encourage others you may know who would enjoy them to drop in if they can. In case these links don't work, it says 12:30 pm Main Foyer Music <A HREF="http://www.rfh.org.uk/main/events/110718.html?section=free&file=index&month=0&week=1">The Wrigley Sisters</A> 'Orkney's favorite musical ambassadors take the classic folk duo format of fiddle and guitar/piano to fresh heights of invention and panache' (The Scotsman) <A HREF="http://www.rfh.org.uk/main/events/110718.html?section=all&file=index&remsite=email_info_button">The Wrigley Sisters | Free Events</A> http://www.rfh.org.uk/main/free/index.asp?l1=l1 Karen

I just noticed this will be on the radio in just under an hour from now. Probably of interest to some folk on this list. Age Old Habits Fri 15 Oct, 11:00 - 11:30 30 mins More than a thousand years ago, monks worshipped on the remote Orkney island of Papa Stronsay. Today, the silhouettes of young men in black robes grace the shoreline again. It's no place for cloisters and manicured lawns. The island is a cross between a hill farm and a building site. Britain's newest monastery is under construction but you won't find any newfangled ideas here. The order demands absolute obedience, poverty and chastity - and this traditional approach to monastic life is attracting followers from all over the world. On BBC Radio 4. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/ You can listen online by clicking "Listen Live". Cheers, Martin -- Martin McCarthy /</ http://www.theasis.co.uk marty@ancient-scotland.co.uk \>\ http://www.ancient-scotland.co.uk /</ http://www.non-prophet.org

thnx for the headsup which program does one listen to *.ram files? i have a one-year old WINXP machine (state-of-the-art) and Windows Media Player will not open the *.ram file thnx bill ----- Original Message ----- From: KJEMEM@aol.com Date: Friday, October 15, 2004 4:35 am Subject: [<orcadia>] Radio 4 - Papa Stronsay > If you missed the live broadcast of the program on the monastery > (It was > 5am over here!) it's available on Radio 4's online "Listen Again" > page click on > "Age Old Habits" > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml > > Karen > > > ==== ORCADIA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Orcadia mailing list, send an e-mail with > the word > 'unsubscribe' in the message body to orcadia-l-request@rootsweb.com > >

If you missed the live broadcast of the program on the monastery (It was 5am over here!) it's available on Radio 4's online "Listen Again" page click on "Age Old Habits" http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml Karen

On 12 October 2004 00:55, robert m. osyer wrote: > Sigurd : when did onions first become common in Orkney ? Not until the early eighteenth century, although prior to that it is noted they were "being grown <in gardens> but not used" -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk

On 12 October 2004 00:55, robert m. osyer wrote: > Sigurd : when did onions first become common in Orkney ? Not until the early eighteenth century, although prior to that it is noted they were "being grown <in gardens> but not used" -- Sigurd Towrie Blackhall - Kirbister - Stromness - Orkney Heritage of Orkney: www.orkneyjar.com Home: sigurd@orkneyjar.com Work: sigurd.towrie@orcadian.co.uk

-----Original Message----- From: robert m. osyer [mailto:saltire@midcoast.com] >"For supper, kail or turnips boiled with pared potatoes were >mashed together , and well savored with salt and pepper , eaten >with bere bannocks. This vegetarian dish bore the curious name >of 'clapshot' ". I'd be interested in others' views on the "turnips" in this recipe. My father liked what he called clapshot and, indeed it was sometimes made with kale but, when not available, he would use turnip tops (turnip greens) rather than swede turnip or white turnip roots - are turnip greens used in Orkney? Ian Holliday

10/11/04 Greetings , The best book that I have ever seen on life in 19th cent. Orkney is " Reminiscences of an Orkney Parish" by John Firth (b.1838) . Originally published in 1920 and republished in 1974 . [Sigurd will know of its present availability - or lack thereof ] "For supper, kail or turnips boiled with pared potatoes were mashed together , and well savored with salt and pepper , eaten with bere bannocks . This vegetarian dish bore the curious name of 'clapshot' ". (pg 98) Today this is often served with mince ( hamburger ) at church suppers etc . I will often make some and serve with hot dogs . [ I live alone and do not like to spend too much time cooking ! There are also directions for the preparation of malt and ale and bere bannocks . You will notice that there is no mention of spices or other additions to the above , but times were not good and you could throw in whatever leftovers that were on hand . The 1946 edition of the SWRI Cookery Book does not mention stovies but my late wife and her mother made them ( in Orkney , Canada, and the U S ) ; consisted of potatoes and onion only . Sigurd : when did onions first become common in Orkney ? Bob O , mid coast Maine .

Here you go! Found George Mackay Brown's recipe for home brew in our own archives - http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/ORCADIA/2002-05/1021573796 Beautiful prose as well! Enjoy Mike

Stephen and listers, I was weaned on both "floorie" (plain) bannocks and bere bannocks as a kid growing up in Stromness. I must have eaten hundreds of the things over the years but at no time have I ever seen them served with fruit among the contents - oven scones might have had a few currants and raisins but nothing else. Don't know where you got the idea they are "typical" from. If you get a recipe for decent home-brew please share it :-) Kind regards Mike