OK.here is the deal. The Rootsweb servers are sending to the @compuserv.com account, it then gets forwarded to a newer @cs.com address. That is all happening on AOL servers, which makes sense since AOL has owned CompuServ for a fair number of years. So,,either the AOL servers have gotten bored and stopped forwarding to old CompuServ addresses, or what's most likely, our member has moved on to other things. Anyway the short version, the one Mike wants to hear, is that I have unsubbed the CompuServ address, since it seems more dead than just a full inbox. Only thing I don't really understand is why the Rootsweb servers hadn't "bounced off" the address a long time ago. Right after Siguard left I changed the bounce limit from 4 to 10..but it still should have auto-unsubbed by now. Moral of the story,,,when you get a new email address,,sub it,,and when you are sure it's working right,..unsub the old one. It's ok to have multiple emails subscribed to the list,,but lets try to keep the dead wood to a minimum. And no,, I am not that smart,,just been lurking on the List Owners list since the change,,picked up a few pointers. R From: Lisa Conrad [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 2:23 PM To: Royce Perry Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Posts bouncing from AOL address No, that one (that had George Gray's email listed within it) - I deleted the deleted version as well! But I received a 2nd one, after I send my last mail to the list, this time with me in the code. [code below] {> on 8/24/07 8:23 AM <} Royce Perry wrote -- Can you forward that whole email to me...If you deleted it, it should still be in your deleted folder. I need to see the complete headers. [email protected] Thanks R ____________________________ Status: U Return-Path: <> Received: from noehlo.host ([127.0.0.1]) by mx-laughing.atl.sa.earthlink.net (EarthLink SMTP Server) with SMTP id 1ioABl4YI3Nl36H0; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:57:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from omr-d34.mx.aol.com ([205.188.249.132]) by mx-laughing.atl.sa.earthlink.net (EarthLink SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1ioABl63U3Nl36H1 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:57:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rly-da02.mx.aol.com (rly-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.159.48]) by omr-d34.mx.aol.com (v117.7) with ESMTP id MAILOMRD347-7e6646cef1da25b; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:57:30 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost) by rly-da02.mx.aol.com (8.13.8/8.13.6) id l7OEvPQK017906; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:57:30 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:57:30 -0400 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <[email protected]> Message-Id: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="l7OEvPQK017906.1187967450/rly-da02.mx.aol.com" Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-AOL-INRLY: liaag2af.mx.compuserve.com [149.174.40.157] rly-da02 X-AOL-IP: 205.188.159.48 X-ELNK-Received-Info: spv=0; X-ELNK-AV: 0 X-ELNK-Info: sbv=0; sbrc=.0; sbf=0b; sbw=001; This is a MIME-encapsulated message --l7OEvPQK017906.1187967450/rly-da02.mx.aol.com The original message was received at Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:57:14 -0400 from liaag2af.mx.compuserve.com [149.174.40.157] *** ATTENTION *** Your e-mail is being returned to you because there was a problem with its delivery. The address which was undeliverable is listed in the section labeled: "----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----". The reason your mail is being returned to you is listed in the section labeled: "----- Transcript of Session Follows -----". The line beginning with "<<<" describes the specific reason your e-mail could not be delivered. The next line contains a second error message which is a general translation for other e-mail servers. Please direct further questions regarding this message to your e-mail administrator. --AOL Postmaster ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <[email protected]> (reason: 552 durangohome1 MAILBOX FULL) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to air-da07.mail.aol.com.: >>> RCPT To:<[email protected]> <<< 552 durangohome1 MAILBOX FULL 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable --l7OEvPQK017906.1187967450/rly-da02.mx.aol.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; rly-da02.mx.aol.com Arrival-Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:57:14 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; [email protected] Action: failed Status: 5.2.2 Remote-MTA: DNS; air-da07.mail.aol.com Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 552 durangohome1 MAILBOX FULL Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:57:30 -0400 --l7OEvPQK017906.1187967450/rly-da02.mx.aol.com Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers Received: from liaag2af.mx.compuserve.com (liaag2af.mx.compuserve.com [149.174.40.157]) by rly-da02.mx.aol.com (v119.7) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDA024-a5446cef1c822e; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:57:12 -0400 Received: (from [email protected]) by liaag2af.mx.compuserve.com (8.13.6/8.13.4/g1.2) id l7OEv2IU012043 for [email protected]; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:57:02 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:54:13 -0400 From: Lisa Conrad <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Two inland parishes Sender: [email protected] To: [email protected] Reply-To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-AOL-IP: 149.174.40.157 X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:475045472:9395240 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: --l7OEvPQK017906.1187967450/rly-da02.mx.aol.com--

Mr. 'List Owner' Is there anything you can do to unsubscribe this person, please? ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <[email protected]> (reason: 552 durangohome1 MAILBOX FULL) I'm getting a bit fed up of getting bounce messages for each of my posts from the AOL postmaster for this addressee. Thanks -- Mike Clouston

* *Here you go, Lisa http://www.homecomingscotland.com/?gclid=CKKvkbKLjo4CFSBMGgodWzGrEA and http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2005/11/04100620 Google is your friend :-) -- Mike Clouston

Lisa Conrad wrote: > George Gray wrote > > ... but [Tom] intends to come back to Orkney in 2009 when Scotland will >> celebrate Scotland's Year of Homecoming. > George, can you tell me more about this, perhaps off-list? I suspect this event will be aimed at Rabbie Burn's 250th anniversary. -- Bruce Fletcher Stronsay, Orkney <www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont> "99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name"

George Gray wrote: > In May I met Rev Tom Corston from Canada who was here on the Homecoming. > When he was in Orkney Tom had met a man who had been born at Cottascarth > and he had told Tom that he used to play around the fishermen's gravestones > when he was a young boy living at Cottascarth. The gravestones must be > somewhere between the area known as Corston in Harray and Cottascarth in > Rendall. The man had told Tom that some of the fishermen were Corston by > name and would probably have been ancestors of his... George, It's interesting that you refer to "the fishermen's gravestones". I had assumed that those who died would have been Harray men who were probably involved in farming in some way or other but who had been driven by famine to seek food on the seashore — shellfish, presumably, or perhaps even seaweed. Is my assumption wrong? If they were indeed fishermen, did they have boats somewhere in Rendall/Firth? Or would they just have been setting out to fish from the shore? Are there good shore-fishing stations in that area? Norman Tulloch

In May I met Rev Tom Corston from Canada who was here on the Homecoming. When he was in Orkney Tom had met a man who had been born at Cottascarth and he had told Tom that he used to play around the fishermen's gravestones when he was a young boy living at Cottascarth. The gravestones must be somewhere between the area known as Corston in Harray and Cottascarth in Rendall. The man had told Tom that some of the fishermen were Corston by name and would probably have been ancestors of his. Tom's ancestor William Corston had left the parish of Rendall to go to the HBC in 1836. Tom understood that his Corstons had come from Corston in Harray before moving to Rendall. Tom did not have time to go and look for the Harray fishermen's graves but he intends to come back to Orkney in 2009 when Scotland will celebrate Scotland's Year of Homecoming. Those of you who are members of the Orkney Family History Society will be able to read about Tom Corstons Homecoming in the December issue of our magazine. George Gray, Orkney ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman Tulloch" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Two inland parishes > SIMON TREASURE wrote: >> i believe it was the 1696 famine that led to the deaths, most of the >> graves can still be found but only with someone who knows where to >> look. they are about 1 mile to the north of the cottiscarth rspb bird >> hide further up the hillside in rough ground and very evocative. i >> believe the rendall ebb is the foreshaw directly ahead of where they >> died on the north side of the bay of firth. i think the event caused >> national news at the time and led to a change in these medieval >> traditions toward a more humanitarian system but can't be certain. >> >> simon >> > > Thanks, Simon. I'll try to find the graves next time I'm in Orkney, > though unfortunately that won't be till next year. > > Norman Tulloch > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

SIMON TREASURE wrote: > i believe it was the 1696 famine that led to the deaths, most of the > graves can still be found but only with someone who knows where to > look. they are about 1 mile to the north of the cottiscarth rspb bird > hide further up the hillside in rough ground and very evocative. i > believe the rendall ebb is the foreshaw directly ahead of where they > died on the north side of the bay of firth. i think the event caused > national news at the time and led to a change in these medieval > traditions toward a more humanitarian system but can't be certain. > > simon > Thanks, Simon. I'll try to find the graves next time I'm in Orkney, though unfortunately that won't be till next year. Norman Tulloch

Can you forward that whole email to me...If you deleted it, it should still be in your deleted folder. I need to see the complete headers. [email protected] Thanks R -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lisa Conrad Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 9:52 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Posts bouncing from AOL address No, but I just got the durangohome1[at]cs.com email bounced to me too! I looked at the source code for it... oddly, though I don't know if it is connected... I saw George Gray's email address in there at the bottom of the mess 'o code.. lookie - it says the sender was; "Sender: [email protected]" {> on 8/24/07 6:02 AM <} Royce Perry wrote -- I am checking into it Mike,,but I am not sure what's happening. There is a [email protected] subscribed,,,but no [email protected] Anyone know anything about either of these members? R -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Clouston Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 7:14 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [ORCADIA] Posts bouncing from AOL address Mr. 'List Owner' Is there anything you can do to unsubscribe this person, please? ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <[email protected]> (reason: 552 durangohome1 MAILBOX FULL) I'm getting a bit fed up of getting bounce messages for each of my posts from the AOL postmaster for this addressee. Thanks ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Norman Tulloch wrote: > > It would also be quite a trek for the people of North Sandwick to cut, > tend and fetch home peats from Harray. Presumably back in the time > before 1729 roads would barely exist, and I'd guess that there would be > little (if any) use of wheeled traffic, so the peats might be brought > home in pannier baskets on the backs of ponies? Maybe I'm wrong about > that, though. Sorry for replying to my own post! However, I now guess that in the past peats would often (usually?)have been carried in baskets (caisies?) on the backs of humans rather than on those of ponies. There's a good picture in Firth's "Reminiscences of an Orkney Parish" of a woman doing just that. The picture is entitled "Bearing Home the Peats". Norman Tulloch

I have heard of a Harray man's Ebb in both parishes but mainly in Rendall, which makes sense as that would be the nearest shore for most of the parish. It was only used in times of dire need. It's a long way to go for some limpets if you have tatties, oatmeal and kale at home. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Norman Tulloch Sent: 24 August 2007 08:24 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Two inland parishes James Irvine wrote: > Yes, Harray is Orkney's only inland parish. Harray folk were known as > 'crabs', one traditional explantion of this nickname being that they were > unfamiliar with sea crabs. > > The best known access rights were to rocks known as the Harra Ebb in > Sandwick, just north of the parish border with Stromness, a valuable right > in years when there was a poor harvests. The rights were in exchange for > those of folk from North Sandwick to cut peats in Harray, needed when the > peat mosses in North Sandwick became exhausted. The original agreement > defining these respective rights, if it ever existed in writing, is long > since lost, was probably earlier than 1729. > > If the Cottiscarth deaths were associated with such access rights then > presumably Harray had also negotiated rights to access the Rendall shore, > though if so, in exchange for what? > > James Irvine. > Interesting, James. Yes, I see the Harra Ebb marked on the map, a mile or two south of the road-end at Yesnaby. It's quite a trek from Harray, isn't it? I wonder whether it was used on a regular basis by the people of Harray or only in times of desperate need? It would also be quite a trek for the people of North Sandwick to cut, tend and fetch home peats from Harray. Presumably back in the time before 1729 roads would barely exist, and I'd guess that there would be little (if any) use of wheeled traffic, so the peats might be brought home in pannier baskets on the backs of ponies? Maybe I'm wrong about that, though. Incidentally, I wonder why you say the agreement (if it existed) was "probably earlier than 1729"? What's the significance of that particular year? I came across another reference to something very similar to the Harra Ebb in a website called Polkadotmittens run by a lady called Christine Groundwater. I think she works as a nurse in Glasgow but has Orcadian roots. She writes: "Incidentally, on the Firth/Rendall coast, there is a portion of the shore called 'The Harra Man's Ebb'; during the famines of the later middle ages several men died in a snowstorm as they brought back their meagre findings. Their graves can still be seen in the hillside of the Harray/Rendall boundary." http://www.polkadotmittens.co.uk/names/field_names.html I can't see a "Harra Man's Ebb" named on the map in that area, but of course that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist; maps don't record all local names. I wonder if she could have unwittingly combined two stories, though - one of the Harra Ebb in Sandwick and the other of the Harray men who, in time of famine, died in the snow in the Harray/Rendall hills? (I'd guess these Harray men would have been heading for or returning from the Bay of Isbister or thereabouts.) Or has anyone heard of a "Harra Man's Ebb" in Firth/Rendall? Norman Tulloch ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

cs.com is part of compuserve. Clearly this person has 2 email accounts I hope s/he will read this on one or the other and perhaps empty the full mailbox. Royce, have you tried emailing a single message requesting same to BOTH addresses? That's what i would do if I were King. Well, Queen Maybe s/he is one an around-the-world cruise and not checking email.... I would say "I should be so lucky" but I am not really interested in around-the-world. I'd settle for a couple of weeks in Orkney! Anne just west of Philadelphia On 8/24/07, Royce Perry <[email protected]> wrote: > I am checking into it Mike,,but I am not sure what's happening. There is a > [email protected] subscribed,,,but no [email protected] > > Anyone know anything about either of these members?

I'm with you , Moi. It seems to have been forgotten that the union members responsible for "this sad act of aggression" (struth)! are part of the community that they serve and they're hardly likely to have taken this action lightly. With respect, Stephen, I think we can leave the locals to deal with their own issues. Jan At 05:31 AM 24/08/2007 Friday, you wrote: >Funny how that > >"free enterprise system" >is always quoted in support of the management rather than the 80%+ members >of the work force who obviously are not happy with their pay/conditions. >Knee jerk blaming of the work force rather than the management for effects >on the public of strikes is not only unfair but ill informed. If more >notice had been taken by the management and public of the concerns of >seamen in the 80's then maybe that flagship of free enterprise wouldn't >have sunk at Zeebrugge just over 20 years ago. >In my experience, strikes are very rarely totally to do with money, even >if that is the stated cause. Strikes, particularly amongst smaller groups >such as in Orkney are usually an indicator of other problems. Unions have >moved a long way on in the last few decades but sometimes management hasn't. >Moi > > > Amazing how this sad act of aggression spares the wrath of the Orkney > > mainland population, while sticking it to the wee northern outer > > islands. Sortof discriminatory don't you think? > > > > My guess from afar is that they have about umpteen union sub sectors > > under the one ferry service unionist umbrella. That's about the only > > way one could perceive that this sort of limited and selective attack > > could prevail in one company. It is punitive in a selective way which > > in this writers rural thinking is out of tune with the "equality" > > theme song of unions. > > > > Personally, I was never much of a union fellow, as in this country > > they just don't work anymore. We historically (family) always > > supported the open market free enterprise system that America was > > built on. Nowadays, the most productive car companies in Canada, > > Honda and Toyota, are not unionized. Funny thing, according to all > > the independent consumer reports, they are the best cars in this > > country with the most productive plants, while Ford, GM and Chrysler- > > Germany all sink further into a mirky bottomless swampy end of a very > > competitive market.. > > > > Seems odd that they (Scottish Gov) would allow an essential service, > > funded publicly by all in Orkney, to be arrested like this, when in > > fact the service is one perfect definition of a monopoly. > > > > Whatever in the rolling seas is going on over there, it best be > > straightened out. The issue of the constitutional legality of > > shutting down a public transport monopoly would be a tough one for a > > union to face and fund in a Scottish court of law. > > > > All very sad and unproductive stuff. Earl Thorfin Skullbasher would > > not be impressed....Stephen > > > > > > On Aug 23, 2007, at 12:10 PM, Bruce wrote: > > > > > >> Orkney Ferries have announced that because of a strike the Company > >> will > >> be cancelling all timetabled services to the Outer North Isles from > >> Wednesday 29 August until Friday 31 August 2007 inclusive. This > >> does not > >> include the services from Westray to Papa Westray. > >> -- > >> Bruce Fletcher > >> Stronsay, Orkney > >> <www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont> > >> "99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name" > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > >> in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > >-- >M.E.McCarty, Bookseller >13 North Main Street, >Wigtown, Newton Stewart >Scotland >DG8 9HL > >++44 (0)1988 402062 >VAT Reg. No. GB 430 2058 03 > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message Jan Nary 31 Leybourne St, Chelmer Queensland 4068 Publicist & Journalist Publicist National Folk Festival Exhibition Park in Canberra 5 - 9 April 2007 <http://www.folkfestival.asn.au/>http://www.folkfestival.asn.au Acoustic Harvest 4EB 98.1 FM www.4eb.org.au & Acoustic Harvest, Planet Radio 88 FM www.planetradio.com.au. tel. +61 7 3379 4178 fax +61 7 3278 2360 mob. 0429 898 328 UK 07905 976 173

i believe it was the 1696 famine that led to the deaths, most of the graves can still be found but only with someone who knows where to look. they are about 1 mile to the north of the cottiscarth rspb bird hide further up the hillside in rough ground and very evocative. i believe the rendall ebb is the foreshaw directly ahead of where they died on the north side of the bay of firth. i think the event caused national news at the time and led to a change in these medieval traditions toward a more humanitarian system but can't be certain. simon ----- Original Message ---- From: Norman Tulloch <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, 24 August, 2007 8:23:38 AM Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Two inland parishes James Irvine wrote: > Yes, Harray is Orkney's only inland parish. Harray folk were known as > 'crabs', one traditional explantion of this nickname being that they were > unfamiliar with sea crabs. > > The best known access rights were to rocks known as the Harra Ebb in > Sandwick, just north of the parish border with Stromness, a valuable right > in years when there was a poor harvests. The rights were in exchange for > those of folk from North Sandwick to cut peats in Harray, needed when the > peat mosses in North Sandwick became exhausted. The original agreement > defining these respective rights, if it ever existed in writing, is long > since lost, was probably earlier than 1729. > > If the Cottiscarth deaths were associated with such access rights then > presumably Harray had also negotiated rights to access the Rendall shore, > though if so, in exchange for what? > > James Irvine. > Interesting, James. Yes, I see the Harra Ebb marked on the map, a mile or two south of the road-end at Yesnaby. It's quite a trek from Harray, isn't it? I wonder whether it was used on a regular basis by the people of Harray or only in times of desperate need? It would also be quite a trek for the people of North Sandwick to cut, tend and fetch home peats from Harray. Presumably back in the time before 1729 roads would barely exist, and I'd guess that there would be little (if any) use of wheeled traffic, so the peats might be brought home in pannier baskets on the backs of ponies? Maybe I'm wrong about that, though. Incidentally, I wonder why you say the agreement (if it existed) was "probably earlier than 1729"? What's the significance of that particular year? I came across another reference to something very similar to the Harra Ebb in a website called Polkadotmittens run by a lady called Christine Groundwater. I think she works as a nurse in Glasgow but has Orcadian roots. She writes: "Incidentally, on the Firth/Rendall coast, there is a portion of the shore called 'The Harra Man's Ebb'; during the famines of the later middle ages several men died in a snowstorm as they brought back their meagre findings. Their graves can still be seen in the hillside of the Harray/Rendall boundary." http://www.polkadotmittens.co.uk/names/field_names.html I can't see a "Harra Man's Ebb" named on the map in that area, but of course that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist; maps don't record all local names. I wonder if she could have unwittingly combined two stories, though — one of the Harra Ebb in Sandwick and the other of the Harray men who, in time of famine, died in the snow in the Harray/Rendall hills? (I'd guess these Harray men would have been heading for or returning from the Bay of Isbister or thereabouts.) Or has anyone heard of a "Harra Man's Ebb" in Firth/Rendall? Norman Tulloch ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

James Irvine wrote: > Yes, Harray is Orkney's only inland parish. Harray folk were known as > 'crabs', one traditional explantion of this nickname being that they were > unfamiliar with sea crabs. > > The best known access rights were to rocks known as the Harra Ebb in > Sandwick, just north of the parish border with Stromness, a valuable right > in years when there was a poor harvests. The rights were in exchange for > those of folk from North Sandwick to cut peats in Harray, needed when the > peat mosses in North Sandwick became exhausted. The original agreement > defining these respective rights, if it ever existed in writing, is long > since lost, was probably earlier than 1729. > > If the Cottiscarth deaths were associated with such access rights then > presumably Harray had also negotiated rights to access the Rendall shore, > though if so, in exchange for what? > > James Irvine. > Interesting, James. Yes, I see the Harra Ebb marked on the map, a mile or two south of the road-end at Yesnaby. It's quite a trek from Harray, isn't it? I wonder whether it was used on a regular basis by the people of Harray or only in times of desperate need? It would also be quite a trek for the people of North Sandwick to cut, tend and fetch home peats from Harray. Presumably back in the time before 1729 roads would barely exist, and I'd guess that there would be little (if any) use of wheeled traffic, so the peats might be brought home in pannier baskets on the backs of ponies? Maybe I'm wrong about that, though. Incidentally, I wonder why you say the agreement (if it existed) was "probably earlier than 1729"? What's the significance of that particular year? I came across another reference to something very similar to the Harra Ebb in a website called Polkadotmittens run by a lady called Christine Groundwater. I think she works as a nurse in Glasgow but has Orcadian roots. She writes: "Incidentally, on the Firth/Rendall coast, there is a portion of the shore called 'The Harra Man's Ebb'; during the famines of the later middle ages several men died in a snowstorm as they brought back their meagre findings. Their graves can still be seen in the hillside of the Harray/Rendall boundary." http://www.polkadotmittens.co.uk/names/field_names.html I can't see a "Harra Man's Ebb" named on the map in that area, but of course that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist; maps don't record all local names. I wonder if she could have unwittingly combined two stories, though — one of the Harra Ebb in Sandwick and the other of the Harray men who, in time of famine, died in the snow in the Harray/Rendall hills? (I'd guess these Harray men would have been heading for or returning from the Bay of Isbister or thereabouts.) Or has anyone heard of a "Harra Man's Ebb" in Firth/Rendall? Norman Tulloch

I am checking into it Mike,,but I am not sure what's happening. There is a [email protected] subscribed,,,but no [email protected] Anyone know anything about either of these members? R -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Clouston Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 7:14 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [ORCADIA] Posts bouncing from AOL address Mr. 'List Owner' Is there anything you can do to unsubscribe this person, please? ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <[email protected]> (reason: 552 durangohome1 MAILBOX FULL) I'm getting a bit fed up of getting bounce messages for each of my posts from the AOL postmaster for this addressee. Thanks -- Mike Clouston ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

{> on 8/24/07 5:02 AM <} Mike Clouston wrote -- * *Here you go, Lisa http://www.homecomingscotland.com/?gclid=CKKvkbKLjo4CFSBMGgodWzGrEA and http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2005/11/04100620 Google is your friend :-) ``````````` Hi Mike - thank you! Google is obviously your friend too! - L.

No, but I just got the durangohome1[at]cs.com email bounced to me too! I looked at the source code for it... oddly, though I don't know if it is connected... I saw George Gray's email address in there at the bottom of the mess 'o code.. lookie - it says the sender was; "Sender: [email protected]" {> on 8/24/07 6:02 AM <} Royce Perry wrote -- I am checking into it Mike,,but I am not sure what's happening. There is a [email protected] subscribed,,,but no [email protected] Anyone know anything about either of these members? R -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Clouston Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 7:14 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [ORCADIA] Posts bouncing from AOL address Mr. 'List Owner' Is there anything you can do to unsubscribe this person, please? ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <[email protected]> (reason: 552 durangohome1 MAILBOX FULL) I'm getting a bit fed up of getting bounce messages for each of my posts from the AOL postmaster for this addressee. Thanks

{> on 8/24/07 3:43 AM <} George Gray wrote -- ... but [Tom] intends to come back to Orkney in 2009 when Scotland will celebrate Scotland's Year of Homecoming. George, can you tell me more about this, perhaps off-list? - Lisa

Yes, Harray is Orkney's only inland parish. Harray folk were known as 'crabs', one traditional explantion of this nickname being that they were unfamiliar with sea crabs. The best known access rights were to rocks known as the Harra Ebb in Sandwick, just north of the parish border with Stromness, a valuable right in years when there was a poor harvests. The rights were in exchange for those of folk from North Sandwick to cut peats in Harray, needed when the peat mosses in North Sandwick became exhausted. The original agreement defining these respective rights, if it ever existed in writing, is long since lost, was probably earlier than 1729. If the Cottiscarth deaths were associated with such access rights then presumably Harray had also negotiated rights to access the Rendall shore, though if so, in exchange for what? James Irvine. > Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:40:25 +0000 (GMT) > From: SIMON TREASURE <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] Two inland parishes? > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > yes it was a formal agreement. That caused the famously tragic death of a > dozen or so harray men in the early part of the 18th century who crossed > the rendall hills in a bizzard trying to reach the shore to exercise those > rights as famine threatened their families. All the men died at > cottiscarth and a visit to the grave stones of the men of harray is one of > the lesser known but very wonderful walks you can take when here. > > simon > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Norman Tulloch <[email protected]> > To: Orcadia <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, 23 August, 2007 2:21:38 PM > Subject: [ORCADIA] Two inland parishes? > > I've started reading "Orkney and the Sea - an oral history" edited and > compiled by Kate Towsey. > > At the start of the section on seaweed she writes: > > "The shoreline was as important to the livelihood of Orkney people as > the sea itself. All but two Orkney parishes have a shoreline and those > parishes have access rights to the shores of Orkney parishes." > > Harray is certainly one parish without a shoreline but I can't think of > another. Suggestions, please? Or is Ms Towsey just plain wrong? > > I'm also puzzled by the reference to "access rights". Did the people of > Harray ever have any sort of formally agreed rights to make use of the > shores of other parishes? > > The book does look interesting, though! > > Norman Tulloch > > >

SIMON TREASURE wrote: > yes it was a formal agreement. That caused the famously tragic death > of a dozen or so harray men in the early part of the 18th century who > crossed the rendall hills in a bizzard trying to reach the shore to > exercise those rights as famine threatened their families. All the > men died at cottiscarth and a visit to the grave stones of the men of > harray is one of the lesser known but very wonderful walks you can > take when here. > > simon Thanks, Simon. I had a vague recollection of reading about that somewhere (maybe in something by GMB?) but I'd forgotten the details. William Thomson in his "History of Orkney" refers to an earlier famine: "The harvest of 1633 was no better, and a petition to the Privy Council from the bishops of Orkney and Caithness graphically described what harvest failure entailed in the days before mass relief; bitterly cold gales sweeping in from the sea had destroyed the corn before it ripened; great numbers of people died in the open fields, and the minister going out with his servant buried them wherever he found them; people were reduced to stealing, eating dogs, or attempting to live off seaweed, and some were so desperate that they threw themselves into the sea... The next harvest was also a disaster; many people had consumed their seed corn and eaten their cattle; such corn as had been sown was 'utterly broken and blasted'... It was later believed that between three and four thousand had perished." Thomson also mentions other later famines, the worst being "probably 1696 when the harvest was said to have yielded not one twentieth of the normal crop". Where are the Harray Men's Graves? I can't see them on the 1:25,000 Ordnance Survey map. Somewhere off the Lyde road? I've been along to the bird hide at Dale of Cottascarth. Are they anywhere in the vicinity of that? Are the gravestones still visible? Norman Tulloch