Isabella Moreland wrote: > It's beginning to sound like Dr.Seuss in here !! > Isabella Indeed. And there was I thinking I'd asked a simple, straightforward question! Norman Tulloch

[email protected] wrote: > > Remember in these "how to pronounce" discussion that we don't all pronounce > "now" "how" or many other words sometimes used for examples the same way. > Don't assume you know what it sounds like until you've heard it spoken. > > Karen > True, Karen, but I can't think of a place where "how" is pronounced as "hoe" or "now" as "no", though maybe I'm forgetting something very obvious. Certainly in Scots "how" can be pronounced as "hoo" and "now" as "noo", but if these pronunciations are intended, spelling will normally indicate that. I've come to the conclusion that proper Orkney people do indeed pronounce "Flow" to rhyme with (for want of a better example) "how", and I intend to mend my ways accordingly. Norman Tulloch

So I guess "how now brown cow" would translate to "hoo noo brun coo" in Orkney?? Peggy (WV - USA) [email protected] wrote: I was going to suggest IPA, but didn't think that would be a very popular idea. I'm a little rusty, but willing to try. Even with a phonetic alphabet you have to standardize the sounds. There may be an absolute sound to definean IPA symbol, but if you grew up not hearing and using that sound, you'll have trouble getting it without hearing it, and some will never be able to distinguish certain sounds. Generally, if we just take each other's descriptions with a grain of salt, a sense of humor, and a bit of patience when asking to clarify, I'm sure we'll get on fine. Just don't assume everyone does or should hear and use sounds the way you do. It's not a right/wrong moral issue as some would make it, just acknowledgement of the differences we were raised with. And fascinating and beautiful those differences can be. re "Bruce Fletcher: To avoid any doubt in pronounciation always use the Internation Phonetic Alphabet. But beware! This is NOT a trivial task - see or _http://tinyurl.com/yvrk34_ (http://tinyurl.com/yvrk34) " -- ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

Royce Perry wrote: > <snicker>...was wondering when somebody would bring that up. <g> > [email protected] wrote >> Remember in these "how to pronounce" discussion that we don't all pronounce >> "now" "how" or many other words sometimes used for examples the same way. >> Don't assume you know what it sounds like until you've heard it spoken. To avoid any doubt in pronounciation always use the Internation Phonetic Alphabet. But beware! This is NOT a trivial task - see <http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/IPA_chart_(C)2005.pdf> or <http://tinyurl.com/yvrk34> -- Bruce Fletcher Stronsay, Orkney <www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont> "99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name"

Hey, that sounds familiar !! Isabella ----- Original Message ----- From: Anne Slater <[email protected]> Date: Monday, August 27, 2007 6:32 am Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] The Gripping Beast To: [email protected] > Maybe from the sound the seals make??? > Ork ork.... > Onomatopoeia reigns > Anne > > On 8/27/07, dear dron <[email protected]> wrote: > > > So now we know about Ork-/Orc-. But it's still interesting > where the element > > -n- in Orkney/Orkneyjar comes from? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Isabella

2007/8/27, Anne Slater <[email protected]>: > > Absolutely "Latinized"is correct. > >From Sigurd's introduction to the Orkneyjar site: > "Pronounced "orc-nee-yahr", the name is generally taken to mean Seal > Islands - the Norsemen's interpretation of the islands' older name. > However, the Ork- element predates the Norse interpretation by > centuries. So now we know about Ork-/Orc-. But it's still interesting where the element -n- in Orkney/Orkneyjar comes from? Now, a question for you, Andrei: What is the meaning of "dear dron"?? > > Anne, polyglot lover of words and names Well, it's a parody on Status Quo's song title "Dear John" where "Dron" is a Russian slang version of my name :)) nothing apart from that. Andrei

I think the word "Orcadian" is a Latinised (is there such a word in English?) form of this word, where Latin uses mostly "c" instead of "k". "Orkadian" could be a compromise to "Orkneyjar" or something of that kind. In fact I've never met such a spelling myself. Andrei On 8/26/07, Evelyn Hlabse <[email protected]> wrote: > > I just finished reading it and I wish I could remember who recommended > > it - it is excellent. I just loved every minute of it. A wonderful > > mystery and at the same time almost a traveloque of the mainland of > > Orkney. My husband (not an Orcadian) is now reading it. I did have > > one question - in the book the author uses the spelling "Orkadian". Is > > this correct? I always thought it was Orcadian. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Well, it originates from Old Norse "flói" (such as today's Faxaflói). There's an interesting entry about the word in Etymological Dictionary of Shetland Norn: flo - 1) the sea (tabu); 2) swampy place, morass, Ork. flow (floe) occasionally denotes a) (orig) a wide mouth of a firth or widening of a bay, a sea-basin, as in "Scapa Flow"; b) occas. a bog; morass. "flow (occas. floe)" is found in Eng. dial. and in Low Scots in the sense of "bog, morass", but sense 1 of Shetl. 'flo' and Ork. 'flow (floe)' indicate tha tthe word is originally Shetl. and Ork. Norn. < Old Norse flói. <...> "*fluu" ought to have been the development in Shetl., but the Shetl. form of pronunc. (floo) has doubtless been influenced by Ork. and L.Sc. flow, floe. So it means the "flow" version is more original. Hence I wonder where the pronunciation "flow = how" comes from, could it be a consequence of a wrong spelling influenced by the words like "how, now" etc., i.e. something that wouldn't have been possible without the written language? Andrei 2007/8/27, Charles Tait <[email protected]>: > > Doon thu flouw funny floi wid be more correct. Try gaan tae Shetland fur a > few days tae maak yur spikkan broader than > Sent from my BlackBerry(r) wireless device > >

"Dear dron" is Andrei (he said that the "dron" was a play on "John" and also a nickname for Andrei. WAY north eastern pronunciation of Andrew) One must assume Andrei is a man. Maybe even a gentleman... >From what little I have learned from Russian literature, any given Russian name may have half a dozen nicknames. Not just "Frank" or "Fran"for Francis... Andrei, will you give us a list of the ordinary nicknames for "Alexander"? And Orcadians, what are some of the standard Orcadian nicknames for (eg) Mary, John, Edward, Andrew? Anne near Philadelphia On 8/27/07, Royce Perry <[email protected]> wrote: > Dang Buce!! That gave me a headache just opening the file!! Maybe Dear Dron > can make something of it.... > > On a side note,,do we know if Dear Dron is a boy or girl?...from the name > it's hard to tell....

I was going to suggest IPA, but didn't think that would be a very popular idea. I'm a little rusty, but willing to try. Even with a phonetic alphabet you have to standardize the sounds. There may be an absolute sound to definean IPA symbol, but if you grew up not hearing and using that sound, you'll have trouble getting it without hearing it, and some will never be able to distinguish certain sounds. Generally, if we just take each other's descriptions with a grain of salt, a sense of humor, and a bit of patience when asking to clarify, I'm sure we'll get on fine. Just don't assume everyone does or should hear and use sounds the way you do. It's not a right/wrong moral issue as some would make it, just acknowledgement of the differences we were raised with. And fascinating and beautiful those differences can be. re "Bruce Fletcher: To avoid any doubt in pronounciation always use the Internation Phonetic Alphabet. But beware! This is NOT a trivial task - see <http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/IPA_chart_(C)2005.pdf> or _http://tinyurl.com/yvrk34_ (http://tinyurl.com/yvrk34) " -- ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Dang Buce!! That gave me a headache just opening the file!! Maybe Dear Dron can make something of it.... On a side note,,do we know if Dear Dron is a boy or girl?...from the name it's hard to tell....It doesn't matter either way,,just wouldn't want to inadvertently cause gender offence. R -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bruce Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 12:16 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] How now Scapa Flow? Royce Perry wrote: > <snicker>...was wondering when somebody would bring that up. <g> > [email protected] wrote >> Remember in these "how to pronounce" discussion that we don't all pronounce >> "now" "how" or many other words sometimes used for examples the same way. >> Don't assume you know what it sounds like until you've heard it spoken. To avoid any doubt in pronounciation always use the Internation Phonetic Alphabet. But beware! This is NOT a trivial task - see <http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/IPA_chart_(C)2005.pdf> or <http://tinyurl.com/yvrk34> -- Bruce Fletcher Stronsay, Orkney <www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont> "99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name" ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

{> on 8/27/07 1:45 PM <} dear dron wrote -- Are there actually specific Orcadians names/nicknames in existence? "Sandy" is one for Alexander...

Nope,,,he couldn't take it...left the building about an hour ago. R -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Isabella Moreland Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:45 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] How now Scapa Flow? It's beginning to sound like Dr.Seuss in here !! Isabella ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] Date: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:50 am Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] How now Scapa Flow? To: [email protected] >   > I'd say flow to rhyme with my low which doesn't rhyme  with > my how but with > my go.  But if how  were to rhyme with who, my flow > would be flew or  flue or > flu all of which sound the same to  me.   Isn't > language fascinating? >   > Cheers > Karen

I'd say flow to rhyme with my low which doesn't rhyme with my how but with my go. But if how were to rhyme with who, my flow would be flew or flue or flu all of which sound the same to me. Isn't language fascinating? Cheers Karen In a message dated 8/27/2007 12:39:11 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: [email protected] wrote: > > Remember in these "how to pronounce" discussion that we don't all pronounce > "now" "how" or many other words sometimes used for examples the same way. > Don't assume you know what it sounds like until you've heard it spoken. > > Karen > True, Karen, but I can't think of a place where "how" is pronounced as "hoe" or "now" as "no", though maybe I'm forgetting something very obvious. Certainly in Scots "how" can be pronounced as "hoo" and "now" as "noo", but if these pronunciations are intended, spelling will normally indicate that. I've come to the conclusion that proper Orkney people do indeed pronounce "Flow" to rhyme with (for want of a better example) "how", and I intend to mend my ways accordingly. Norman Tulloch ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

I am happy with seal islands but who ever said ork for sea pig or sear is norse. Like many words it is likely very old Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -----Original Message----- From: "Anne Slater" <[email protected]> Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:31:16 To:[email protected] Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] The Gripping Beast Maybe from the sound the seals make??? Ork ork.... Onomatopoeia reigns Anne On 8/27/07, dear dron <[email protected]> wrote: > So now we know about Ork-/Orc-. But it's still interesting where the element > -n- in Orkney/Orkneyjar comes from? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Remember in these "how to pronounce" discussion that we don't all pronounce "now" "how" or many other words sometimes used for examples the same way. Don't assume you know what it sounds like until you've heard it spoken. Karen In a message dated 8/27/2007 5:02:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: In 22 years of coming to Orkney, I've never heard it rhymed with how, whether as part of Scape Flow or just as the Flow. Jim ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

It's beginning to sound like Dr.Seuss in here !! Isabella ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] Date: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:50 am Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] How now Scapa Flow? To: [email protected] >   > I'd say flow to rhyme with my low which doesn't rhyme  with > my how but with > my go.  But if how  were to rhyme with who, my flow > would be flew or  flue or > flu all of which sound the same to  me.   Isn't > language fascinating? >   > Cheers > Karen >   >   > In a message dated 8/27/2007 12:39:11 P.M. Central Daylight > Time,  > [email protected] writes: > > [email protected] wrote: > >  > > Remember in these "how to  pronounce" discussion that we > don't all  > pronounce > > "now" "how"  or many other words sometimes used for > examples the same  way. >   > > Don't assume you know what it sounds like until you've heard > it   spoken. > >  > > Karen > >  > > True, Karen, but I  can't think of a place where "how" is > pronounced as > "hoe" or "now" as  "no", though maybe I'm forgetting > something very > obvious. Certainly in  Scots "how" can be pronounced as > "hoo" and "now" > as "noo", but if these  pronunciations are intended, > spelling will > normally indicate  that. > > I've come to the conclusion that proper Orkney people do > indeed  > pronounce "Flow" to rhyme with (for want of a better example) > "how", and  > I intend to mend my ways accordingly. > > Norman  Tulloch > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the  list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word  'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the > body of the  message > > > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the > all-new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Isabella

Doon thu flouw funny floi wid be more correct. Try gaan tae Shetland fur a few days tae maak yur spikkan broader than Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -----Original Message----- From: James Thompson <[email protected]> Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 05:01:35 To:[email protected] Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] How now Scapa Flow? In 22 years of coming to Orkney, I've never heard it rhymed with how, whether as part of Scape Flow or just as the Flow. Jim --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using the UIA Web Mail Server. ULTIMATE Internet Access, Inc http://www.uia.net/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

<snicker>...was wondering when somebody would bring that up. <g> R -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] How now Scapa Flow? Remember in these "how to pronounce" discussion that we don't all pronounce "now" "how" or many other words sometimes used for examples the same way. Don't assume you know what it sounds like until you've heard it spoken. Karen In a message dated 8/27/2007 5:02:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: In 22 years of coming to Orkney, I've never heard it rhymed with how, whether as part of Scape Flow or just as the Flow. Jim ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The pronounciation may differ in other parts of Orkney but it is also the case that Orcadians modify their speech when talking to visitors. My aunt used to work in the tourist office and took a call from an Orcadian. When she put down the phone, the visitor who had been standing nearby said, "Oh, that was lovely. Tell me, what language were you speaking?" The how pronunciation may be dying out. I don't think my children use it. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of James Thompson Sent: 27 August 2007 11:02 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] How now Scapa Flow? In 22 years of coming to Orkney, I've never heard it rhymed with how, whether as part of Scape Flow or just as the Flow. Jim --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using the UIA Web Mail Server. ULTIMATE Internet Access, Inc http://www.uia.net/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message