Thanks Norman. Got to wonder just how the bere version....bygg...is pronounced in NOrway and in Orkney. Both the same?? On Sep 4, 2007, at 2:19 PM, Norman Tulloch wrote: > Steve Davie wrote: >> I learned that bere is still referred to as 'bygg' in Norway. I >> wondered if that word ever still pops up in Orkney, and further how >> it is pronounced. Bygg= bye-g or begg or bigg or beeg? hmm > > The word was certainly used in Orkney in the past. Gregor Lamb in his > "Orkney Wordbook" gives three meanings for the word "big": > > big 1 to build. Bigging 1 a building 2. anything built [also Scots; ON > byggia] > > big 2 big. Big end, the room in the Orkney two-teacher school in which > the big children are taught... > > big 3 barley [ON bygg] > > Others do indeed say that "bygg" means bere rather than just barley. > > There's a lot more on the word in the "Dictionary of the Scottish > Language" at http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/ > Search for the word "big" and look at meaning 5. > > The word also occurs in some place-names. In "The Place-Names of > Birsay" Hugh Marwick refers to a few of them. For example, he writes: > > "In the 1627 report on Earldom Parishes... is the following: 'ane > littel > piece land in Birsay callit Bigquoy, not far distant from the kirk, > now > in the hands of Thomas Swintoune, minister, being designit to him for > his gleib.' Probable O.N. bygg-kvi 'bere (barley) quoy'; cf Bigland in > Rousay." > > Marwick also suggests that Bigbreck in Twatt tunship may well be > derived > from big (bere) + O.N. brekka, a slope. I very much doubt if the > word is > used now. > > Meg, I've just seen your message. Bigging, Newbigging and so on aren't > connected with bygg/big. See the first meaning given by Gregor Lamb > that I quoted above. Bigging just means building. See too this verse > from Burns's "To a Mouse": > > Thy wee-bit housie, too, in ruin! > It's silly wa's the win's are strewin! > An' naething, now, to big a new ane, > O' foggage green! > An' bleak December's win's ensuin, > Baith snell an' keen! > > > Norman Tulloch > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ORCADIA- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Interesting side note. I am not sure how much credit I give it, but some linguists are starting to think that "Scots" is not a dialect of English. That they both branched off of the original Old German trunk language at about the same point in time. The reason given is the marked vocabulary differences. Too many words are totally different they think to be accounted for by local additions and mutations. Anyone heard any recent information on this? R -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Norman Tulloch Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 1:55 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] BERE =BYGG Royce Perry wrote: > I thought translating Burns to "English",,especially modern English was akin > to treason? Perhaps even a hanging offence. Most admit it takes a bit of > close reading to get at the meaning though. > R Well, the translation certainly is a pretty lukewarm, wishy-washy, dishwatery kind of thing, but even Scots need to have some of Burns's language translated. Of course, too, Burns was writing in the dialect of a particular part of Scotland; I don't think his contemporaries from, say, Orkney or Aberdeenshire would have found his writing easy to understand - and for Gaelic speakers it might as well have been in Chinese. The translation's a poor thing but there's no shame in having to make use of it! Norman T. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I thought translating Burns to "English",,especially modern English was akin to treason? Perhaps even a hanging offence. Most admit it takes a bit of close reading to get at the meaning though. R -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Norman Tulloch Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 1:22 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ORCADIA] BERE =BYGG If anyone wants a translation of "To a Mouse", go to: http://www.worldburnsclub.com/poems/translations/554.htm Norman T. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 04/09/2007 13:25:53, [email protected] wrote: > Is anyone elses Radio Orkney link not working? or is it just me? It's broken, Karen. The BBC have got massive problems at the moment -- Mike Clouston

There are a decent amount of placenames with that a very similar syllable : Biggings Newbiggings Mid Biggings Upper Bigging, etc These places in my experience have been rural and pre-1850, not found one yet in a town setting but not looking. Might they be structures named for being situated near bere fields when built ? Most of my knowlege is near Orphir. Would early island folk have commonly had a storage building for grain like black oats or bere that later became larger and housed people ? Trying to account for a residence name containing a reference to bere or bygg. MegG in OK =========================

Begin forwarded message: > From: Steve Davie <[email protected]> > Date: September 4, 2007 9:55:09 AM EDT (CA) > To: [email protected] > Subject: BERE =BYGG > > I learned that bere is still referred to as 'bygg' in Norway. I > wondered if that word ever still pops up in Orkney, and further how > it is pronounced. Bygg= bye-g or begg or bigg or beeg? hmm

I learned that bere is still referred to as 'bygg' in Norway. I wondered if that word ever still pops up in Orkney, and further how it is pronounced. Bygg= bye-g or begg or bigg or beeg? hmm

Is anyone elses Radio Orkney link not working? or is it just me? Karen English ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

To all those who contacted me regarding "Voyageurs" off list and those on list, I would be pleased to hear your feedback on this great book. S Davie

And I just put it on hold at my library. I love libraries and we have one of the best. On Aug 29, 2007, at 12:34 PM, Anne Slater wrote: Voyageurs : a novel Author : Elphinstone, Margaret. Publisher, Date : New York : Canongate, 2003. ISBN : 1841955493 - Description : viii, 466 p. ; 22 cm. I am so pleased that this book is available to me in my local public library system! Anne, thanks Steve! On 8/29/07, Steve Davie <[email protected]> wrote: > Occasionally, I trip over a book which embodies what in my studies > appears to be the essence of that time and lifestyle. ...... > Occasionally I find a book that hits the mark...for me at least. S ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Evelyn, Emma, Robbie & Spencer Sweet Pea Digory waiting at the Bridge (12/8/89 - 11/8/96) Help support Corgi Aid -- http://www.corgiaid.org/ Ohio Corgi Picnic - June 22, 2008 in Marion, Ohio http://homepage.mac.com/evelynhlabse/Home/home.html If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it.

Voyageurs : a novel Author : Elphinstone, Margaret. Publisher, Date : New York : Canongate, 2003. ISBN : 1841955493 - Description : viii, 466 p. ; 22 cm. I am so pleased that this book is available to me in my local public library system! Anne, thanks Steve! On 8/29/07, Steve Davie <[email protected]> wrote: > Occasionally, I trip over a book which embodies what in my studies > appears to be the essence of that time and lifestyle. ...... >Occasionally I find a book that hits the mark...for me at least. S

Over the many years, several on this site have indeed expressed interested in that particular group of Orcadians of that particular period in history, that were in fact responsible for being the primary trading force in the wilderness for the Hudson Bay Company.These indeed were the men that opened up the great north west, "opening up" being the one term that both the white man and indians here can both agree upon to this day. (discovered, founded, settled, and tamed just don't reflect accuracy). Occasionally, I trip over a book which embodies what in my studies appears to be the essence of that time and lifestyle. Sometimes it is historical reflection from original journals in archives, however depending on the author, they might read with or without descriptive detail and passion. There are countless "report" style works by scholars from throughout the subsequent years. Occasionally I find a book that hits the mark...for me at least. Something that touches the soul, captivates the attention, and creates the mood while painting the compelling and colourful setting without hesitation or inaccuracy. It is like living in the shoes of the characters, with nothing missing, to make it very real. To those who have discussed this over the last six or seven years with me, I would recommend the book VOYAGEURS, by Margaret Elphinstone, a novelist living in Glasgow and teaching english at the University of Strathclyde. This amazing book, indeed follows the factual lines paddled by the North West Company, the latter day (1779) rival to the Hudson's Bay Company (1670) which was appended to the HBC in 1821. Inasmuch as the main characters were Scottish (the opposition NW Company was Highland Scottish), the experience parallels that of the HBC traders from Orkney. Indeed the book story takes place a hundred years after the HBC Orkneymen arrived. The accuracy of the geography and history throughout, and the descriptive expressions employed to paint the pictures into a blazing mosaic of colour and emotion suspense and nature, is simply very strong and captivating. Only the best authors can hold the mind and heart in an unbroken bond throughout an entire work. The most uncelebrated cornerstone people from across the oceans, in this country's discovery from afar, are those young courageous Orkneymen. I recall the ninth Earl of Orkney who lives here, comment on this theme. This book, like Robert Ballantyne's works "Hudson's Bay' and "Ungava" not only gives a clear picture of life in the area, but the story, the romance and the emotions jump out in a way that demonstrates real talent on behalf of Margaret Elphinstone. The area central to the book, is familiar to me, as it is very near our northern property on Manitoulin Island, which from our shorefront, overlooks that same old fur trade route, where the colourful brigades paddled for so long. I could not remember all those who expressed interest in the HBC Orkney connection. That was my original reason for joining this site years ago, until thanks to some very kind Orcadians, who helped me discover and verify the romantic depth of our viking roots and connected me with relatives there. I hope that this note will reach at least one of those people interested in that proud past, who might enjoy this book as much as I did. S Davie

Patricia Long wrote: > In case anyone missed it, I'd like to point out the Ramblings programme on > the Radio 4 Listen Again page. > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/radioplayer_holding.shtml Clare Balding > walks from Rackwick to the Old Man of Hoy with Morag MacInnes and David Lea > and, on the way, talks to Jack Rendall in Rackwick > Thanks for that, Patricia. I didn't know about the programme, and I'm listening to it now. It seems promising! Some familiar names in the programme — and I'm not referring to Ms Balding. Norman Tulloch

In case anyone missed it, I'd like to point out the Ramblings programme on the Radio 4 Listen Again page. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/radioplayer_holding.shtml Clare Balding walks from Rackwick to the Old Man of Hoy with Morag MacInnes and David Lea and, on the way, talks to Jack Rendall in Rackwick

Enjoyed the show. Thanks for the info. But those BBC people from doon sooth used the "O's" word and put the wrong accent on Stromness. How can visitors get it right if we hear that sort of thing? (I'm still pronouncing Scapa Flow like BBC documentaries do, because I haven't figured out what else to do.) Karen English Memphis ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Bruce wrote: > Latest Fletcher Saga is at <http://tinyurl.com/262byo> Thanks for the link to the BBC sound and film archives, Bruce. I hadn't come across that particular bit of the BBC site before. Norman Tulloch

Latest Fletcher Saga is at <http://tinyurl.com/262byo> -- Bruce Fletcher Stronsay, Orkney <www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont> "99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name"

Please tell Maureen that she is not alone in choosing the wrong aerosol can. A male friend once, post shower, doused his armpits with HAIR SPRAY instead of anti-perspirant! Might I suggest that you get a goat or two to keep your lawn clipped? If you get females, you could then make goat cheese.... Anne in SE PA On 8/28/07, Bruce <[email protected]> wrote: > Latest Fletcher Saga is at <http://tinyurl.com/262byo> > --

To answer all the questions in one... I don't have problems with this file and it's a good idea about IPA. In its simplified version how is noted as [hau], know/no = [nou], in fact I'm used to this way of transcription above everything else and recommend it to you because the English way of transcripting is very misleading in many cases. As for my personality I´m definitely a man! To ladies: yes, I'm a gentleman as well, take a notice :D The most common nickname for Alexander in Russian is Sasha (stress on the first syllable). Are there actually specific Orcadians names/nicknames in existence? All the best! Andrei

Royce Perry wrote: > On a side note,,do we know if Dear Dron is a boy or girl?...from the name > it's hard to tell....It doesn't matter either way,,just wouldn't want to > inadvertently cause gender offence. > R Andrei is a masculine name, surely? Isn't it, Andrei? Norman T.