Hello Durham List! Thank you for sharing your citing frustrations! Yes, I've had the same. And, yes, I find the lack of good words to describe it all, very frustrating too. The good thing is that the new MLA guidelines (fifth edition) are available this year. The MLA standards are great for books, etc., such as in the following example: << Baxter, Angus. _In Search of Your British & Irish Roots: a Complete Guide to Tracing your English, Welsh, Scottish, & Irish Ancestors_. Fourth Edition. Toronto: McClelland & Stewart, 2000. This edition was first published in the United States by Genealogical Publishing in 1999. Most of Baxter's "In Search of ..." books are genealogical classics in Canada. >> However, genealogical sources are not included in the MLA guidelines. Other than that, I use Family Tree Maker. They have space for recording the individual sources used, as you enter your data, and they have some pages attempting to explain how to document genealogical sources too. However, they only have one or two examples, and genealogy includes many unusual sources, including those from cemeteries, archives, family histories, census returns, and so on. I'm trying to put a guide together for us up here in Ontario, Canada, for our small publishing company, and am surprised how little information there is about something which should be (in my opinion) important for all family historians and genealogists. Also, does Ultimate Family Tree have a website with some of the same info? I'm curious to see how they define and explain the need for "citations." How do other genealogical software programs deal with documenting sources and evidence? Meanwhile, Pat, I know what you mean by preferring "proof" instead of "citation," although I prefer the slightly longer word "evidence." Unfortunately, neither "proof" nor "evidence" are quite enough, although maybe they are necessary in the question somehow. The problem in using the word "proof" is that we don't only document sources to prove our evidence, but also do it to allow others to find the same sources for their own research. Also, just by documenting sources, we don't necessarily prove anything ... especially if the source we are quoting is completely wrong. Maybe the words "evaluating" or "analysing" are needed too? *Groan* Do you think the question"How do you record your sources?" is clear enough or still really fuzzy? How about ... ? *at this point my mind suddenly gets clogged up and completely stops* * * * Anyway, thank you to everyone who tried to decipher my question. If you didn't make sense of it, I don't blame you. I know what question I'm asking, but obviously haven't found understandable words with which to ask it yet. Thanks again, Astrid * * * *Researching families from England (esp. from Cornwall and Devon) who settled in the Ontario / Upper Canada counties of Durham and Ontario in the 19th century: BROAD, BURR, CAIRNS, NEWBERRY / NEWBURY, STACEY / STACY. Also interested in the related families of BRAUND, CHISHOLM, DAVIS, ELFORD, FRANKISH, GIMBLETT, GRILLS (GRYLLS), HEWSON, HOGARTH, HALL, JOHNS, NEWSTEAD, SAWYER, SNIDER (SNYDER), TENNANT, VEAL / VEALE. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 3:33 AM <<I have been trying to cite sources recently using my genealogy software, Ultimate Family Tree, which attempts to explain it. If they would only define their terms. Why don't they use "proof" instead of "citation"? I always took a citation to be the backing document to an honourary medal. > <<I am utterly confused between a general citation, e.g. "monumental inscription", and an extremely specific one, e.g. Pleasant Green Cemetery, Townville, Something County, Section 3, Plot 2. I don't think the software will allow for individual sources for the 4 standard events for the 600 people I now have in my tree and yet general citations do not really appear to be acceptable.>> > << /cheers Pat Jeffs>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: 10 August 2000 05:00 <<Anyone know of web-sites (or available books) which specifically show how to document genealogical sources well? I am familiar with non-genealogical sites and books, but know only two books for genealogy: one by the late Richard S. Lackey, another by Elizabeth Shown Mills. Both seen difficult (to impossible) to beg, borrow or steal. >> > > > > Thanks, > > Astrid Terras > > Gravenhurst (Muskoka Lakes), Ontario, Canada > > terras@vianet.on.ca