-----Original Message----- From: Roy [mailto:roy.cox@btinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 7:14 PM To: 'norman.lee1' Subject: RE: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised Good Evening All - http://www.motco.com/map/81006/ If you know the address, this map will show it. If this page 81006 is wrong, go to the home page http://www.motco.com/ And navigate to what you might think it is. VERY GOOD site Cowman is a quite interesting title, don't you think - Obviously keeps cows but not probably as a farmer? I've come across this "Job Description" several times and I wonder if it indicates a person with a place where animals could be kept in readiness for the market; I think the word would apply to bulls and yearlings mainly, rather than cows, as they would be not be sold unless it were for beef ('ole Beef)! The London markets at that time may not have included young milk cows I think? Lambeth had become a borough by the creation of an act of parliament in 1832; in 1861 it must have been a growing concern as Audry says, which is reflected in my 1870 gazetteer with 3 pages of it's description. The manufacturing establishments were very numerous and very various, employing the greater part of its inhabitants. There were also wharves for lime, coal and timber, and piers to accommodate river steamers. Kind Regards June & Roy http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm -----Original Message----- From: norman.lee1 [mailto:norman.lee1@virgin.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:05 PM To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised An observation on the location as well as the occupation(s) - from what I remember of Lambeth, who would have thought that such a short time ago (historically speaking) a place could change so much! I was more familiar with the Lambeth of the 1960s and it was certainly on its way down then although, like many of the London suburbs at the time, you could see signs of the glories of yesteryear. What is more, these glories would have postdated the 1860s of the man you mention with most of the houses probably dating from 1880-1910. The time you mention must have been when, in the neighbouring parish, the Camberwell Beauty was still flourishing. But, perhaps the upper middle class housing development had already begun and your man was supplying some of these larger prestigious households with their coal and coke requirements. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra Lovegrove" <sandra@lovegrove.org.uk> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:24 PM Subject: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > Further to my recent posting about the "baker and coal dealer" in > Nottinghamshire, how about this is in Lambeth 1861: "Cowkeeper, coal > and coke > dealer". > (NB: "Cowkeeper" is definitely correct: this was previously his sole > occupation.) > > SANDRA LOVEGROVE > > Researching LOVEGROVEs in all places and at all times. > Please do visit the LOVEGROVE Information Centre on http://www.lovegrove.org.uk > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== OLD-ENGLISH Web Page http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/

Hello Roy Don't we still have cowmen? As far as I know, they are just farmworkers that specialise in the care of the cows on the farm where they are working and the farm and cows may well not belong to them. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy" <roy.cox@btinternet.com> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 7:16 PM Subject: FW: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roy [mailto:roy.cox@btinternet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 7:14 PM > To: 'norman.lee1' > Subject: RE: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > > Good Evening All - > > http://www.motco.com/map/81006/ > > If you know the address, this map will show it. > If this page 81006 is wrong, go to the home page http://www.motco.com/ And > navigate to what you might think it is. > > VERY GOOD site > > Cowman is a quite interesting title, don't you think - Obviously keeps cows > but not probably as a farmer? > I've come across this "Job Description" several times and I wonder if it > indicates a person with a place where animals could be kept in readiness for > the market; I think the word would apply to bulls and yearlings mainly, > rather than cows, as they would be not be sold unless it were for beef ('ole > Beef)! The London markets at that time may not have included young milk cows > I think? > > Lambeth had become a borough by the creation of an act of parliament in > 1832; in 1861 it must have been a growing concern as Audry says, which is > reflected in my 1870 gazetteer with 3 pages of it's description. The > manufacturing establishments were very numerous and very various, employing > the greater part of its inhabitants. > > There were also wharves for lime, coal and timber, and piers to accommodate > river steamers. > > Kind Regards > > June & Roy > http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: norman.lee1 [mailto:norman.lee1@virgin.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:05 PM > To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > > An observation on the location as well as the occupation(s) - from what I > remember of Lambeth, who would have thought that such a short time ago > (historically speaking) a place could change so much! I was more familiar > with the Lambeth of the 1960s and it was certainly on its way down then > although, like many of the London suburbs at the time, you could see signs > of the glories of yesteryear. What is more, these glories would have > postdated the 1860s of the man you mention with most of the houses probably > dating from 1880-1910. The time you mention must have been when, in the > neighbouring parish, the Camberwell Beauty was still flourishing. But, > perhaps the upper middle class housing development had already begun and > your man was supplying some of these larger prestigious households with > their coal and coke requirements. > > Audrey > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sandra Lovegrove" <sandra@lovegrove.org.uk> > To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:24 PM > Subject: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > > > > Further to my recent posting about the "baker and coal dealer" in > > Nottinghamshire, how about this is in Lambeth 1861: "Cowkeeper, coal > > and > coke > > dealer". > > (NB: "Cowkeeper" is definitely correct: this was previously his sole > > occupation.) > > > > SANDRA LOVEGROVE > > > > Researching LOVEGROVEs in all places and at all times. > > Please do visit the LOVEGROVE Information Centre on > http://www.lovegrove.org.uk > > > > > > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > THREADED archives for OLD-ENGLISH: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH >

Greetings all, A cowkeeper was a dairyman I believe and not necessarily rural. There's a picture of a cow-keeper's establishment in London on the Sainsbury museum site at http://www.j-sainsbury.co.uk/museum/1869.htm Click on the image to enlarge. Cheers, Liz snip

Thanks Liz. See what I've written to Roy. Both of these messages seem compatible, I'd say. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: <emagar@hotkey.net.au> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > Greetings all, > > A cowkeeper was a dairyman I believe and not necessarily rural. There's a picture > of a cow-keeper's establishment in London on the Sainsbury museum site at > http://www.j-sainsbury.co.uk/museum/1869.htm > Click on the image to enlarge. > > Cheers, > > Liz > > snip > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > >

>Cowman is a quite interesting title, don't you think - Obviously keeps cows >but not probably as a farmer? >I've come across this "Job Description" several times and I wonder if it >indicates a person with a place where animals could be kept in readiness for >the market; no - a cow is a cow, not a bull. They kept a couple of cows in a town backyard, to milk for sale locally. if the cow went dry it was sent out to the country and swapped for another. They liked to have the water pump handy to eke out supplies. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society