>>>One thought on the Dinton etc names, would it not seem strange to >>>find Old English name elements of C5th to C7th still in use in a >>>Danish area in the late C9th. <<It was not a Danish area per se, but an area beyond the borders of the Danelaw, though not too far for its influence to be felt. A bunch of Danes had intruded, fought a messy battle, and settled by right of conquest. Which is why it was the Danes' place (personal names unknown because we don't speak to that lot) Another hamlet a few miles across country is called Eythrop - again a Danish tag, covering a settlement of aliens beyond the usual boundaries of the Danelaw. It is what happens at the interface of two opposing peoples.>> I don't think either of those names indicates Danish settlement, Eve. Certainly not Dinton, which is a wholly Anglo-Saxon place-name meaning the tun of Dunna's people (see both Place-names of Bucks and Ekwall). And while the second element of Eythrope just might be the Scandinavian -thorp, there are two other non-Danish explanations which are more likely. 1. the Scandinavian word thorp entered the English language after the Danish and Norwegian invasions, and new settlement names were formed using it at much later dates (even after the Norman Conquest) by populations that were no longer either Anglo-Saxon or Danish/Norwegian, or even Anglo-Danish, but simply English. Since Eythrope is first recorded in 1167, and its first element seems to be an Anglo-Saxon word, it may well come into this category. 2. there was also an Anglo-Saxon word throp/thorp, with exactly the same meaning as the Old Norse thorp, which was in use before the Danish and Norwegian invasions and was used to make place-names in areas far outside the Danelaw. It is of course difficult to say with certainty whether any given -thorpe place-name originated from the Scandinavian or the Anglo-Saxon word (or even the Middle English one mentioned above), but there are generally reckoned to be two pointers to an Anglo-Saxon origin: (1) location outside the parts of the Danelaw which contain many place-names of Old Norse origin, and (2) many early spellings in -throp rather than -thorp. Eythrope meets both criteria - it is not only outside the areas of dense Scandinavian place-names but is even outside the Danelaw itself (just), and the earliest recorded spellings are in -throp. From 1255 occasional -thorp spellings appear, but -throp spellings still form the majority, right up to the present day. Eythrope and the other -throp place-names in Bucks are discussed in the Place-name Society's 'English Place-name Elements' (Pt ii, p 216) and in Gillian Fellows-Jensen's 'Scandinavian Settlement Names in the East Midlands' (Copenhagen, 1978) at p 83. Both came to the conclusions I have reported above. Matt Tompkins Blaston, Leics

In message <93EC899E92A38749B4B93AC4319D25B605B3E3FE@saffron.cfs.le.ac.u k>, "Tompkins, M.L." <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk> writes >>>>One thought on the Dinton etc names, would it not seem strange to >>>find Old >English name elements of C5th to C7th still in use in a >>>Danish area in the >late C9th. > ><<It was not a Danish area per se, but an area beyond the borders of the >Danelaw, though not too far for its influence to be felt. A bunch of Danes had >intruded, fought a messy battle, and settled by right of >conquest. Which is why it was the Danes' place (personal names unknown >because we don't speak to that lot) >Another hamlet a few miles across country is called Eythrop - again a >Danish tag, covering a settlement of aliens beyond the usual boundaries >of the Danelaw. It is what happens at the interface of two opposing >peoples.>> > > >I don't think either of those names indicates Danish settlement, Eve. Certainly >not Dinton, which is a wholly Anglo-Saxon place-name meaning the tun of Dunna's >people I must disagree on both points, Matt. Dinton is so often Danington, whicth the long tradition of the Danish battle both there and at Bledlow (with some AS Chronicle back up, which I haven't the leisure to check now, but have seen). The interesting story of the plant mutation because of the presence of so much blood in the earth at one spot is backed up by the presence of these plants, to which a regular pilgrimage used to be made, in simpler times, and the story undoubtedly passed down in this way. And Thorp is definitely the Danish element for hamlet. >1. the Scandinavian word thorp entered the English language after the Danish >and Norwegian invasions, and new settlement names were formed using it at much >later dates (even after the Norman Conquest) by populations that were no longer >either Anglo-Saxon or Danish/Norwegian, or even Anglo-Danish, but simply >English. Since Eythrope is first recorded in 1167, #first recorded' must mean a prior existence - it isn't, oh, i am going to have to write down some sort of name for this place, what new name can I dream up? but a simple use of the existing name. >Eythrope meets both criteria - it is not only outside the areas of dense >Scandinavian place-names but is even outside the Danelaw itself (just), and the >earliest recorded spellings are in -throp. From 1255 occasional -thorp >spellings appear, but -throp spellings still form the majority, right up to the >present day. 'Just' is the point - Bucks was very much subject to casual raids, and inevitably, some raiders settled. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society