The following is from the Calendar of Patent Rolls, Edward III, Vol. 1 May 8 1327, Nottingham. ............... "complaining that divers men of the counties of Middlesex, Surrey, Berks and Oxford have kidels along the banks of the river between London and Oxford, have made weirs in the same river, and fixed pales and piles along its course, and tied the cords of their nets athwart the stream, to the obstruction of ships and boats, contrary to divers charters of the citizens, and more especially to Magna Carta,—to enquire by jury of those counties as to the premises, with power to remove the said kidels, etc., and to punish offenders by fine and otherwise." Can someone please advise as to what a "kidel" is. Thanks, in anticipation, Martyn

From one website I found on a Google search I got from the German: Kittel: apron or work shirt, from middle/old German kedel, keel, kidel. Sue [email protected] DNA Group R1b1 Y-Search 2C534 Y-Base TZPH1 -----Original Message----- From: mjcl [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 1:34 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [OEL] Meaning of "kidel" The following is from the Calendar of Patent Rolls, Edward III, Vol. 1 May 8 1327, Nottingham. ............... "complaining that divers men of the counties of Middlesex, Surrey, Berks and Oxford have kidels along the banks of the river between London and Oxford, have made weirs in the same river, and fixed pales and piles along its course, and tied the cords of their nets athwart the stream, to the obstruction of ships and boats, contrary to divers charters of the citizens, and more especially to Magna Carta,-to enquire by jury of those counties as to the premises, with power to remove the said kidels, etc., and to punish offenders by fine and otherwise." Can someone please advise as to what a "kidel" is. Thanks, in anticipation, Martyn ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== To UNSUBSCRIBE from list mode -- Send the one word UNSUBSCRIBE to [email protected]

Good Evening Martyn - KIDEL - the nearest I can find is 'KID' - A bundle of wood or brushwood twigs for kindling? May or may not lead to something hot!? Incidentally, this is also a surname more common in USA it appears? Kind Regards Roy LD Cox Family Historian Member of SA&NHS Member No. 1066 (And all That!) Web Site: www.coxresearcher.com/index.htm I also use www.archivecdbooks.com and www.localhistory.co.uk/ambra for my research -----Original Message----- From: mjcl [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 6:34 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [OEL] Meaning of "kidel" The following is from the Calendar of Patent Rolls, Edward III, Vol. 1 May 8 1327, Nottingham. ............... "complaining that divers men of the counties of Middlesex, Surrey, Berks and Oxford have kidels along the banks of the river between London and Oxford, have made weirs in the same river, and fixed pales and piles along its course, and tied the cords of their nets athwart the stream, to the obstruction of ships and boats, contrary to divers charters of the citizens, and more especially to Magna Carta,—to enquire by jury of those counties as to the premises, with power to remove the said kidels, etc., and to punish offenders by fine and otherwise." Can someone please advise as to what a "kidel" is. Thanks, in anticipation, Martyn ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== To UNSUBSCRIBE from list mode -- Send the one word UNSUBSCRIBE to [email protected] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.3/423 - Release Date: 18/08/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.3/423 - Release Date: 18/08/2006

In message <[email protected]>, Roy <[email protected]> writes >Good Evening Martyn - > >KIDEL - the nearest I can find is 'KID' - A bundle of wood or brushwood >twigs for kindling? a close extension is that a kid is a wickerwork basket, so this 'little kid' could be a wickerwork fish trap or curved wicker construction, cunningly placed in the stream to trap fish (hence a kiddle or kettle of fish).. The modern survival on a small scale is a lobster pot. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Hi Martyn, The OED has: kiddle. Forms: kiddell, kydle, kydell, kedel(l), kiddel, kidle, kettle, kedle, keddle, kidel, kiddle. [a. AF. kidel, kydel (whence med.(Anglo-)L. kidellus), OF. quidel (1289 in Godef. Compl.), later quideau 'a Wicker Engine whereby fish is caught' (Cotgr.), also guidel (1322 in Godef.), mod.F. guideau, a stake-net, also, a line of sloping planks placed to direct a current; Breton kidel stake-net (Le Gonidec).] a. A dam, weir, or barrier in a river, having an opening in it fitted with nets or other appliances for catching fish. b. An arrangement of stake-nets on the sea-beach for the same purpose (see quot. 1891). The word is chiefly found in some early statutes (Latin and Anglo-French) and in later references to these: there is no clear evidence that it was actually current in sense a later than c 1550. Cheers, Liz in Melbourne -----Original Message----- From: mjcl [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, 20 August 2006 3:34 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [OEL] Meaning of "kidel" The following is from the Calendar of Patent Rolls, Edward III, Vol. 1 May 8 1327, Nottingham. ............... "complaining that divers men of the counties of Middlesex, Surrey, Berks and Oxford have kidels along the banks of the river between London and Oxford, have made weirs in the same river, and fixed pales and piles along its course, and tied the cords of their nets athwart the stream, to the obstruction of ships and boats, contrary to divers charters of the citizens, and more especially to Magna Carta,-to enquire by jury of those counties as to the premises, with power to remove the said kidels, etc., and to punish offenders by fine and otherwise." Can someone please advise as to what a "kidel" is. Thanks, in anticipation, Martyn ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== To UNSUBSCRIBE from list mode -- Send the one word UNSUBSCRIBE to [email protected]

People, Thanks as as ever for a very rapid and accurate response. Regards, Martyn.