Thank you for these Barbara. I am the daughter of a weaver and feel slightly ashamed that I don’t know more about the subject. I know the basics and the effects of the cotton industry on the town – but the mechanics! (But then I don’t understand how the machine I am using right now works either.) If these allowances were for power looms on farms (and I still don’t know this for sure) then they had (oh – shouldn’t use that word!) to be powered by water and checking an early map and personal knowledge of the area, it seems that all the places mentioned did have access to running water, one of them possibly by a purpose built conduit, which I first saw two years ago and wondered why it was needed. Current knowledge says that handloom weaving took place here (wool first, later cotton) for several centuries and was not superseded by power until 1844 (despite great hardship at times) when the first true factory was built here. If this really does indicate the use of power looms then it adds to the history of the town. Thanks again, Barbara -----Original Message----- From: Barb Johnson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 13 December 2006 20:10 To: Barbara Subject: Re: [OEL] Power Looms Being a weaver myself thought I knew what they were but did a search, don't know if this help anyone but some sites. http://www.nps.gov/archive/lowe/loweweb/Lowell_History/powerlooms.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_loom Barbara Johnson Barbara <[email protected]> wrote: Thank you for this Audrey, A little bit 'late' for me this - my understanding of machinery of all kinds very sketchy and I was struggling with the idea of power looms in a private dwelling, even in an outhouse of some kind. However, this reply "that many very small places like farms had 3 or 4 looms and would use water power but created a small lodge to hold water until needed so that the flow would be even", received from someone with a good knowledge of the industrial history of this area, seems to tie in with the information you provided. I have got a couple more contacts to try and will see if they agree that this is possible for this area. If so it is the first time I have heard of it here, not being mentioned in any general history books about the area or those on industrial archaeology. Thanks again for your trouble, Barbara -----Original Message----- From: norman lee [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 12 December 2006 23:44 To: Barbara; [email protected] Com Subject: Re: [OEL] Power looms? Dear Barbara I have a copy of a privately published book by William Radcliffe called "The Origin of Power Loom Weaving" published in 1828. It is hard reading but, as far as I can tell, because he took exception to English and Scottish yarn being sold to European finishers to manufacture, i.e. handloom weave it, as he felt that English weavers should have the benefit of the yarn, decided to try and solve the trouble with the large amounts of spun cotton and too few weavers to make the finished pieces. This was partly because it was quicker to produce the yarn as it was then made by a mechanical process powered either by water or steam rather than the days when the yarn was spun by one member of a family in cottage industry situation and woven by another member of the family, with the children taking part by carding etc. He decided to first of all bring weavers and potential weavers together into his factory where he was already spinning yarn in order to train up as many men as he could to the trade of cotton weaving. He also began, with the help of others, to invent various other machines to perform some of the preliminary processes, e.g. warping and dressing. Then he invented a way of taking up the finished material by winding it onto a beam by means of what he called a "lathe" but may not have been quite what we understand as a lathe today. This was somehow able to be done mechanically as the handloom weaver wove the material by hand. In other words, he could also operate the winding process at the same time. This improved the finished article. There is a lot about how he had to patent machines and processes and what he had to go through in order to do it and how he felt the need, with others, to protect the English trade and workers against the theft of industrial secrets and it is not at all easy to select the wood from the trees. However, his idea seems to have been to train up the handloom weavers to work with what he called the power looms which they should then take back into their homes to use there. Clearly these are not the later power looms as only part of the process was mechanised and seems to have depended upon the action of the man to work it rather than power from water or steam. I don't know if any of this explains what you have found happening in your locality. Most of this was going on in Stockport and the areas roundabout as William Radcliffe was based in Stockport while he was doing this but he was putting out yarn and warps to the cottages over the three counties that border onto the countryside around Stockport - Derbyshire, Cheshire and Lancashire. This was, in effect, a transitional phase between hand operated looms and the fully powered looms in factory situations. Audrey ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=45083/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailb eta>

My life is beyond chaotic at present with lots of sick elderly relatives in various parts of the country and I havent been following this thread, but it has suddenly dawned on me that upstairs on my landing I have an antique spinning wheel, dating to earlyish 19thC I am told, and there was at one stage a very large loom which wove wool, up to about 24" wide, which was wide for its time, but I dont know what time that was, if you get my meaning, my grandad certainly used it, I have fabric woven on it. But it wasnt new to him I dont think, I think it was passed down. So what part of the country are we talking about with these looms? I have missed that bit. Liz - harrassed in Stockport UK > >Thank you for these Barbara. I am the daughter of a weaver and feel >slightly >ashamed that I don’t know more about the subject. I know the basics and the >effects of the cotton industry on the town – but the mechanics! (But then I >don’t understand how the machine I am using right now works either.) If >these allowances were for power looms on farms (and I still don’t know this >for sure) then they had (oh – shouldn’t use that word!) to be powered by >water and checking an early map and personal knowledge of the area, it >seems >that all the places mentioned did have access to running water, one of them >possibly by a purpose built conduit, which I first saw two years ago and >wondered why it was needed. > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb