Hello! We are looking at a will, written in 1821, where the benefactor leaves her "peak" china to one of her family. What is "peak" china? David Richardson. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 30 December 2006 20:43 To: [email protected] Subject: OLD-ENGLISH Digest, Vol 1, Issue 30 ============= WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ============= Today's Topics: 1. Re: Power Looms (Barbara) 2. Re: Power Looms (Liz Parkinson) 3. Re: Power Looms (Barbara) 4. Re: Power Looms (Elizabeth Agar) 5. Xmas Festivities! (Roy) 6. Christmas Greetings (Polly Rubery) 7. That Time of The Year again! (Roy) 8. GLEBE LAND (Donald Tomkinson) 9. Re: GLEBE LAND (Roy) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:32:48 -0000 From: "Barbara" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [OEL] Power Looms To: "[email protected] Com" <[email protected]>, "Barb Johnson" <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thank you for these Barbara. I am the daughter of a weaver and feel slightly ashamed that I don?t know more about the subject. I know the basics and the effects of the cotton industry on the town ? but the mechanics! (But then I don?t understand how the machine I am using right now works either.) If these allowances were for power looms on farms (and I still don?t know this for sure) then they had (oh ? shouldn?t use that word!) to be powered by water and checking an early map and personal knowledge of the area, it seems that all the places mentioned did have access to running water, one of them possibly by a purpose built conduit, which I first saw two years ago and wondered why it was needed. Current knowledge says that handloom weaving took place here (wool first, later cotton) for several centuries and was not superseded by power until 1844 (despite great hardship at times) when the first true factory was built here. If this really does indicate the use of power looms then it adds to the history of the town. Thanks again, Barbara -----Original Message----- From: Barb Johnson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 13 December 2006 20:10 To: Barbara Subject: Re: [OEL] Power Looms Being a weaver myself thought I knew what they were but did a search, don't know if this help anyone but some sites. http://www.nps.gov/archive/lowe/loweweb/Lowell_History/powerlooms.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_loom Barbara Johnson Barbara <[email protected]> wrote: Thank you for this Audrey, A little bit 'late' for me this - my understanding of machinery of all kinds very sketchy and I was struggling with the idea of power looms in a private dwelling, even in an outhouse of some kind. However, this reply "that many very small places like farms had 3 or 4 looms and would use water power but created a small lodge to hold water until needed so that the flow would be even", received from someone with a good knowledge of the industrial history of this area, seems to tie in with the information you provided. I have got a couple more contacts to try and will see if they agree that this is possible for this area. If so it is the first time I have heard of it here, not being mentioned in any general history books about the area or those on industrial archaeology. Thanks again for your trouble, Barbara -----Original Message----- From: norman lee [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 12 December 2006 23:44 To: Barbara; [email protected] Com Subject: Re: [OEL] Power looms? Dear Barbara I have a copy of a privately published book by William Radcliffe called "The Origin of Power Loom Weaving" published in 1828. It is hard reading but, as far as I can tell, because he took exception to English and Scottish yarn being sold to European finishers to manufacture, i.e. handloom weave it, as he felt that English weavers should have the benefit of the yarn, decided to try and solve the trouble with the large amounts of spun cotton and too few weavers to make the finished pieces. This was partly because it was quicker to produce the yarn as it was then made by a mechanical process powered either by water or steam rather than the days when the yarn was spun by one member of a family in cottage industry situation and woven by another member of the family, with the children taking part by carding etc. He decided to first of all bring weavers and potential weavers together into his factory where he was already spinning yarn in order to train up as many men as he could to the trade of cotton weaving. He also began, with the help of others, to invent various other machines to perform some of the preliminary processes, e.g. warping and dressing. Then he invented a way of taking up the finished material by winding it onto a beam by means of what he called a "lathe" but may not have been quite what we understand as a lathe today. This was somehow able to be done mechanically as the handloom weaver wove the material by hand. In other words, he could also operate the winding process at the same time. This improved the finished article. There is a lot about how he had to patent machines and processes and what he had to go through in order to do it and how he felt the need, with others, to protect the English trade and workers against the theft of industrial secrets and it is not at all easy to select the wood from the trees. However, his idea seems to have been to train up the handloom weavers to work with what he called the power looms which they should then take back into their homes to use there. Clearly these are not the later power looms as only part of the process was mechanised and seems to have depended upon the action of the man to work it rather than power from water or steam. I don't know if any of this explains what you have found happening in your locality. Most of this was going on in Stockport and the areas roundabout as William Radcliffe was based in Stockport while he was doing this but he was putting out yarn and warps to the cottages over the three counties that border onto the countryside around Stockport - Derbyshire, Cheshire and Lancashire. This was, in effect, a transitional phase between hand operated looms and the fully powered looms in factory situations. Audrey ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=45083/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailb eta> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:14:50 +0000 From: "Liz Parkinson" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [OEL] Power Looms To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed My life is beyond chaotic at present with lots of sick elderly relatives in various parts of the country and I havent been following this thread, but it has suddenly dawned on me that upstairs on my landing I have an antique spinning wheel, dating to earlyish 19thC I am told, and there was at one stage a very large loom which wove wool, up to about 24" wide, which was wide for its time, but I dont know what time that was, if you get my meaning, my grandad certainly used it, I have fabric woven on it. But it wasnt new to him I dont think, I think it was passed down. So what part of the country are we talking about with these looms? I have missed that bit. Liz - harrassed in Stockport UK > >Thank you for these Barbara. I am the daughter of a weaver and feel >slightly >ashamed that I don’t know more about the subject. I know the basics and the >effects of the cotton industry on the town – but the mechanics! (But then I >don’t understand how the machine I am using right now works either.) If >these allowances were for power looms on farms (and I still don’t know this >for sure) then they had (oh – shouldn’t use that word!) to be powered by >water and checking an early map and personal knowledge of the area, it >seems >that all the places mentioned did have access to running water, one of them >possibly by a purpose built conduit, which I first saw two years ago and >wondered why it was needed. > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:28:16 -0000 From: "Barbara" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [OEL] Power Looms To: "[email protected] Com" <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" And Christmas 'looming' too. (Sorry!) Lancashire, Liz, and the transitional period from handlooms weaving (which I think is what you seem to be talking about) and the advent of power loom weaving. Started by a phrase in a document that puzzled me, referring to the possible use of power looms in a particular town before the time when published works say they arrived in the town. Barbara -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Liz Parkinson Sent: 13 December 2006 21:15 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [OEL] Power Looms My life is beyond chaotic at present with lots of sick elderly relatives in various parts of the country and I havent been following this thread, but it has suddenly dawned on me that upstairs on my landing I have an antique spinning wheel, dating to earlyish 19thC I am told, and there was at one stage a very large loom which wove wool, up to about 24" wide, which was wide for its time, but I dont know what time that was, if you get my meaning, my grandad certainly used it, I have fabric woven on it. But it wasnt new to him I dont think, I think it was passed down. So what part of the country are we talking about with these looms? I have missed that bit. Liz - harrassed in Stockport UK ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 13:28:59 +1100 From: "Elizabeth Agar" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [OEL] Power Looms To: "'[email protected] Com'" <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" And a couple more references: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1828looms.html and http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1823cotton.html Liz in smoky Melbourne ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:55:26 -0000 From: "Roy" <[email protected]> Subject: [OEL] Xmas Festivities! To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Everyone - Myself and my dear wife June, would like to wish all, as enjoyable and happy a Christmas that you may be able to, and may the New Year be more pleasant than has been the previous one; remembering all those who are not able to be with their families. Sincerely Roy & June Cox in the Wet-Wet-Wet South of England! ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 10:07:20 -0000 From: "Polly Rubery" <polly[email protected]> Subject: [OEL] Christmas Greetings To: <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi All While not at all ready for Christmas I have managed to do my online card which I would like to share with you all. You can see it at: www.rowberry.org/xmas06.html My best wishes to all of you for this holiday season, and also for the coming year, both in your researches and your personal lives. I also have some news of the ROWBERRY One-Name Study. Although I have not had much time to devote to it this year, what with selling and buying houses, moving and getting the new house and B&B up and running, the ROWBERRY One-Name Study continues to grow. Thanks to all the generous donations, before, during and after the last Family Gathering in 2005 we have been able to purchase all the modern "mystery" certificates. Most of the events on them have been now added to their correct trees, although there still remain a few mysteries even with the certificates! And then, with the complete indexing of the UK census 1841-1901 on Ancestry, many of the smaller R trees have been linked back into one of the larger main trees. In the light of this success I feel that now is an excellent time to begin a ROWBERRY Y DNA Project to see if we can link up some more of the trees. So I have started a ROWBERRY Group DNA Project with FTDNA - you can read more about it, and apply for a Y DNA test kit at: http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=C62864&special=true To start the ball rolling I have ordered a test kit for my cousin, my nearest living male relative, for his Christmas present. So if there are any ROWBERRY/RUBERYs (or other Rs) or GUMMERY/GOMERYs (or other Gs) out there I do hope that you will consider participating and encourage any relations who might be interested to join in also - it would be the best Christmas present that you could give me! A full list of surname variants covered by the Group can be found on the website. And for those of you asking why the name GUMMERY is included see my own website at: www.rowberry.org/research.html This tells the story of my research into my own family with my own family tree. Here you will find out why I should really be doing a GOMERY One-Name Study as well, and why my closest living relative in Herefordshire today is called GUMMERY! By April 2008 I hope enough people will have participated to show some interesting and significant results. Therefore I have booked the Hundred House Hotel for the next Family Gathering for the weekend of 18th - 20th April 2008 (note NOT 2007!) and it would be wonderful if you could be there to share it with us. Please make a note in your diary now! Hope to see you there! Happy Christmas! Polly Polly Rubery List admin: [email protected] A genealogy and local history list covering the Counties of Brecon, Hereford, Monmouth, Shropshire, Stafford and Worcester. [email protected] A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford [email protected] ROWBERRY/RUBERY ONS - GOONS #278 [email protected] http://www.rowberry.org Webmaster for the Herefordshire Family History Society http://www.rootsweb.com/~ukhfhs/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 15:07:49 -0000 From: "Roy" <[email protected]> Subject: [OEL] That Time of The Year again! To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A VERY MERRY XMAS TO EVERYONE, WHEREVER YOU MAY BE IN THIS OLDE WORLD OF OURS AND A HAPPIER NEW YEAR >>>>> Kind Regards Roy LD Cox Family Historian Member of SA&NHS Member No. 1066 (And all That!) Web Site: www.coxresearcher.com/index.htm I also use www.archivecdbooks.com and www.localhistory.co.uk/ambra for my research ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 16:07:05 -0000 From: "Donald Tomkinson" <[email protected]> Subject: [OEL] GLEBE LAND To: "OLD ENGLISH MESSAGE" <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I understand that glebe land was originally owned by a church and income from the land was part of the rector's income. This was altered in 1976 when glebe land was taken into the ownership of the diocese. I'd be grateful if anyone could tell me what would have happened to the proceeds from the sale of the land prior to 1976. Don Tomkinson ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 20:42:27 -0000 From: "Roy" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [OEL] GLEBE LAND To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Evening Don - An interesting query which on the face of it one would think the proceeds go to the benefice. Glebe meaning soil, land attached to a benefice. The Vicar also earning income from Glebe Lands which were set aside for him in the village. I copy below a section dealing with these transactions as the Act of 1976 outlines: ************* Glebe 7. Under Section 23(1) of the Endowments and Glebe Measure 1976 a Diocesan Board of Finance can grant glebe to the Commissioners (with or without a consideration) via Section 14 of the New Parishes Measure 1943 for those purposes of Section 13 of the New Parishes Measure which are listed in Section 23(1), i.e: (i) any glebe building consisting of a house, church or part of a church or which is suitable to be used or converted into a parsonage; (ii) as a site for a new or enlarged church, churchyard, burial ground or parsonage; (iii) to provide access to or improve the amenities of church, churchyard, burial ground or parsonage. In each case the land vests in the incumbent and any proceeds are paid into the DSF Capital Account. ************* I think the letters "DSF" should read "DBF" - Diocesan Board of Finance? Further information can be got from: http://www.cofe.anglican.org/about/churchcommissioners/pastoral/churchproper ty/npmdispparsformh.doc Kind Regards and a HAPPY NEW YEAR!! Roy LD Cox Family Historian Member of SA&NHS Member No. 1066 (And all That!) Web Site: www.coxresearcher.com/index.htm I also use www.archivecdbooks.com and www.localhistory.co.uk/ambra for my research -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Donald Tomkinson Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 4:07 PM To: OLD ENGLISH MESSAGE Subject: [OEL] GLEBE LAND I understand that glebe land was originally owned by a church and income from the land was part of the rector's income. This was altered in 1976 when glebe land was taken into the ownership of the diocese. I'd be grateful if anyone could tell me what would have happened to the proceeds from the sale of the land prior to 1976. Don Tomkinson ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ To contact the OLD-ENGLISH list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the OLD-ENGLISH mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of OLD-ENGLISH Digest, Vol 1, Issue 30 ******************************************