Well spotted Eve! I have that booklet, and also others of more recent origin. It seems the jury is still out on the exact cause and while I am not enough of an expert to suggest that I might lay the debate to rest I am hoping to gain some insight from this particular PR, which as you have also guessed is in Lancashire, Ashton under Lyne to be precise. As far as nunc: child goes I do think, as I work through the register and find more examples, that these are unbaptised children and not necessarily illegitimate - I have just found a nunc: child and a wife of an individual buried in one coffin. This is the entry for the incumbent, Henry Fairfax, in VCH: He was a younger son of Sir Thomas Lord Fairfax, and was fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge; inherited Oglethorpe, near Tadcaster, where he died..... His eldest son Henry, born at Ashton, became the fourth Lord Fairfax; a younger son, Brian, was an author. So perhaps not the half educated curate I imagined at first. Thank you to everyone for this - you have all helped confirm my idea of what these children were, even if there are still puzzling aspects to his use of the word. I will be sure to acknowledge you all!(Though, if my tutors are familiar with the term I could write almost anything I wished I think :-) Barbara Y -----Original Message----- From: eve@varneys.org.uk [mailto:eve@varneys.org.uk] Sent: 30 December 2008 13:06 To: Barbara Youds Subject: Re: [OEL] re Nunc child > The reason I would like to know is that I am looking at a mortality > crisis and the term abortive is given for many burials indicating > possibly the effects of a famine and I need to be able to assign these > nunc entries to a particular category of burial in order to come up > with a set of stats to manipulate. Is this the mortality crisis of 1623, which Dr Colin Rogers studied as affecting a large number of Lancs parishes - way back in 1979 or so? He did publish a paper on it - but I dare say you are familiar with this. I recall he concluded it was famine related, since mothers are babies were malnourished and so died. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1868 - Release Date: 29/12/2008 10:48 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1868 - Release Date: 29/12/2008 10:48

Could these babies have been born very sickly and baptized by the midwife? This would mean that the midwife was "unqualified" to perform baptisisms as such but had, nevertheless, performed a baptism of sorts. I believe that it was the practice of midwives to do this where a child was born on the point of death. This could cover the nuncupative meaning. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Youds" <barbara.youds@ntlworld.com> To: <eve@varneys.org.uk>; "OLD-ENGLISH@rootsweb. com" <OLD-ENGLISH@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] re Nunc child > Well spotted Eve! I have that booklet, and also others of more recent > origin. It seems the jury is still out on the exact cause and while I am > not > enough of an expert to suggest that I might lay the debate to rest I am > hoping to gain some insight from this particular PR, which as you have > also > guessed is in Lancashire, Ashton under Lyne to be precise. > > As far as nunc: child goes I do think, as I work through the register and > find more examples, that these are unbaptised children and not necessarily > illegitimate - I have just found a nunc: child and a wife of an individual > buried in one coffin. This is the entry for the incumbent, Henry Fairfax, > in > VCH: > He was a younger son of Sir Thomas Lord Fairfax, and was fellow of Trinity > College, Cambridge; inherited Oglethorpe, near Tadcaster, where he > died..... > His eldest son Henry, born at Ashton, became the fourth Lord Fairfax; a > younger son, Brian, was an author. > > So perhaps not the half educated curate I imagined at first. > > Thank you to everyone for this - you have all helped confirm my idea of > what > these children were, even if there are still puzzling aspects to his use > of > the word. I will be sure to acknowledge you all!(Though, if my tutors are > familiar with the term I could write almost anything I wished I think :-) > > Barbara Y > > -----Original Message----- > From: eve@varneys.org.uk [mailto:eve@varneys.org.uk] > Sent: 30 December 2008 13:06 > To: Barbara Youds > Subject: Re: [OEL] re Nunc child > > > The reason I would like to know is that I am looking at a mortality >> crisis and the term abortive is given for many burials indicating >> possibly the effects of a famine and I need to be able to assign these >> nunc entries to a particular category of burial in order to come up >> with a set of stats to manipulate. > > Is this the mortality crisis of 1623, which Dr Colin Rogers studied as > affecting a large number of Lancs parishes - way back in 1979 or so? > He did publish a paper on it - but I dare say you are familiar with this. > I recall he concluded it was famine related, since mothers are babies > were malnourished and so died. > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1868 - Release Date: > 29/12/2008 > 10:48 > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1868 - Release Date: > 29/12/2008 > 10:48 > > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1869 - Release Date: 30/12/2008 12:06