Dear Everyone: I've not posted to the list before, but I've been impressed by the help that is given here, so I hope that someone can give me some ideas. I have a will written in 1704. It is pretty straightforward, except for the deceased's wife's name. It appears to be, 'Denny,' and I'm pretty certain that it is some sort of 'pet name' or 'nickname.' Does anyone have any idea what the actual name would be for a person called, 'Denny?' If you'd like to see how it it is written, you can view this segment of the will here: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~daycogs/id12.html I would really appreciate any suggestions. I've yet to be able to find a marriage record for this couple and she seems to have disappeared after his death - I have no idea who she was! Best regards, Lee Cognetta

Further thoughts: Line 5: Comparison makes it certain (to me at least) that the initial letters are both f, not s. "It' 2 fybbes one fate" [i.e.vat?]. But I haven't got the 30-vol OED to hand, nor the big 6-vol. Enlish Dialect Dictionary. Have a notion that a fibbe was a lidded bin, but that's only a guess. Line 6: Having eliminated steel (the plain or fluted rods with handle used for sharpening knives, in use from 1541), styling iron (device heated in the fire for making the hair into ringlets -nnot around then?), and steelyard (pronounced "stillyard", weighing device used from 1639), I'm now pretty certain this word is STILLING iron.(used from 1604, a stand or gantry for a cask).This goes with the beer barrels; the only problem is that it was usually called simply a stilling, and didn't I think need to be made of iron instead of wood. John ----- Original Message ----- From: <DEBBIEKENNETT@aol.com> To: <old-english-l@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [OEL] Unsolved - 1674 Inventory of Alice Cruse ofBrushford,Somerset - Pa... > Thanks Audrey and Austin for your further comments. Alice's inventory does > include three beer barrels so it is possible that these vats and pails > were > used for brewing. If the word is sybb not jybb then cheese-making is > another > possibility. I hadn't realised that the art of cheesemaking was so > ancient. > > Debbie > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ NOD32 3829 (20090205) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > >

----- Original Message ----- From: <DEBBIEKENNETT@aol.com> To: <old-english-l@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [OEL] Unsolved - 1674 Inventory of Alice Cruse ofBrushford,Somerset - Pa... > Thanks Audrey and Austin for your further comments. Alice's inventory does > include three beer barrels so it is possible that these vats and pails > were > used for brewing. If the word is sybb not jybb then cheese-making is > another > possibility. I hadn't realised that the art of cheesemaking was so > ancient. > > Debbie > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ NOD32 3829 (20090205) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > >

Hi Debbie - You are right about the iron, my grandparents had some - she was a seamstress - I still have three of the olde irons and a stand. They were classed in sizes according to the garment to be ironed; which as a matter of interest, was at first only a method of drying clothes. I have sizes two of No. 2 and one of No. 5 - No.1 would probably have been the styling iron for delicate work and frills etc., - the iron was heated either on a stand attached to the fire grate or over a flame from the open range or when gas arrived, on the gas ring. A No. 5 iron was used by my grandfather for his starched collars, he would use a piece of candle to test the heat, if it ran slowly then it was about right!! I have used these before the advent of affordable electric irons! Cheers Roy (Ex-Somerset - not far from Brushford - as the Crow flies!) -----Original Message----- From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of DEBBIEKENNETT@aol.com Sent: 06 February 2009 10:06 To: old-english-l@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] Unsolved - 1674 Inventory of Alice Cruse ofBrushford, Somerset - Pa... John We did in fact have an extensive discussion about this inventory some time ago now. The stiling iron was I think used for ironing clothes. This usage seems to be particularly prevalent in the West Country: The Oxford English Dictionary includes the following definition of the word “ steel”: 7. dial. To iron (clothes). 1746 Exmoor Scolding 273 Tha hasn't tha Sense to stile thy own Dressing. The English Dialect Dictionary also has a similar definition sourced from the Somerset Word Book.: Steel: 8.v. To iron clothes. w.Cy. To stile linen, A Provincial Glossary. Grose (1790) Dev. The back o' a zittle is a choice thing to steel clothes 'pon. 46, ed Palmer. n.Dev. Tha hasn't the sense etc....Exm. Scold. 1746. Hence Stiling-iron, an iron. Debbie ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

'yrn' of course being 'iron'. I'm wondering whether the line 6 'stil(ring?) iron is some kind of Stilton cheese iron, a hollow device for sampling cores, and also for (I think) putting the blue veins in. John

(Just looked at this so I don't know what suggestions have been made): 1. ....one bedstead and bedding. 3. two coverletts 7 spitt (7 bis) It. tressle & yrn box and other things. 9. Sund[ry] tot'[al] (name) George (G?)ooding John ----- Original Message ----- From: <DEBBIEKENNETT@aol.com> To: <old-english-l@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [OEL] Unsolved - 1674 Inventory of Alice Cruse ofBrushford,Somerset - Pa... > Thanks Audrey and Austin for your further comments. Alice's inventory does > include three beer barrels so it is possible that these vats and pails were > used for brewing. If the word is sybb not jybb then cheese-making is another > possibility. I hadn't realised that the art of cheesemaking was so ancient. > > Debbie > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ NOD32 3829 (20090205) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > >

John We did in fact have an extensive discussion about this inventory some time ago now. The stiling iron was I think used for ironing clothes. This usage seems to be particularly prevalent in the West Country: The Oxford English Dictionary includes the following definition of the word “ steel”: 7. dial. To iron (clothes). 1746 Exmoor Scolding 273 Tha hasn't tha Sense to stile thy own Dressing. The English Dialect Dictionary also has a similar definition sourced from the Somerset Word Book.: Steel: 8.v. To iron clothes. w.Cy. To stile linen, A Provincial Glossary. Grose (1790) Dev. The back o' a zittle is a choice thing to steel clothes 'pon. 46, ed Palmer. n.Dev. Tha hasn't the sense etc....Exm. Scold. 1746. Hence Stiling-iron, an iron. Debbie

1674 does seem somewhat ancient but I was in fact referring to the interesting link which Austin provided which describes the long history of cheese-making. http://www.cheesemaking.com/includes/modules/jWallace/OnLineNews/FeedbackPics/ 06_11/Friends/pics/Meidieval.pdf Coincidentally I was just watching the programme about the Victorian Farm on TV tonight which provided a practical demonstration of the cheese-making process. The Victorians had all sorts of fancy new gadgets to make the process easier. For those of you in the UK you can catch up on the series on the BBC I Player (cheese-making is episode 5). http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00gn2bl Debbie

Good people I had as a medievalist to smile when Debbie referred to 'ancient' and 'cheesemaking' in the context of 1674! :) 1674..why that was practically last week. Cheesemaking predates recorded human history...now That's ancient! KBG ---------------------------------------- > From: DEBBIEKENNETT@aol.com > Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 07:21:51 -0500 > To: old-english-l@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [OEL] Unsolved - 1674 Inventory of Alice Cruse ofBrushford, Somerset - Pa... > > Thanks Audrey and Austin for your further comments. Alice's inventory does > include three beer barrels so it is possible that these vats and pails were > used for brewing. If the word is sybb not jybb then cheese-making is another > possibility. I hadn't realised that the art of cheesemaking was so ancient. > > Debbie > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009

Hi Could it also be for cheesemaking, where a sieve was used? EXTRACT:"4. Pour curds and whey into a butter muslin lined colander" FROM the following website on medieval cheese making.http://www.cheesemaking.com/includes/modules/jWallace/OnLineNews/FeedbackPics/06_11/Friends/pics/Meidieval.pdf Austin _________________________________________________________________ Love Hotmail?  Check out the new services from Windows Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/132630768/direct/01/

Thanks Audrey and Austin for your further comments. Alice's inventory does include three beer barrels so it is possible that these vats and pails were used for brewing. If the word is sybb not jybb then cheese-making is another possibility. I hadn't realised that the art of cheesemaking was so ancient. Debbie

Hello Debbie A vat, tub and pail could also be used in brewing. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: <DEBBIEKENNETT@aol.com> To: <old-english@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] Unsolved - 1674 Inventory of Alice Cruse of Brushford,Somerset - P... > > Austin > > Thanks for the interest in this old inventory of mine. We did read the > word > before as jybbs. > > A gib is an iron hook or a pot clip. It could equally be an S at the > beginning of the word, but sieve seems less likely as the kitchen > equipment is dealt > with in the earlier part of the inventory. The vat, tub and pails sound to > me like the equipment used for the laundry. Would they have used a sieve > for > washing in the 1600s? > > Debbie Kennett > > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1934 - Release Date: 02/04/09 08:24:00

Hi I never thought of sieves. That looks fine. Vessel timber could be salvaged from an old boat, or to go to build a new boat? Again, I never thought of that. I have seen trestle before but it was spelt differently:"One table one frame one dishboard with all forms cheires stooles bords trestles benches & such like" ... in a 1623 Will, in Cheshire. Regards Austin Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:47:14 +0000Subject: Re: [OEL] Unsolved - 1674 Inventory of Alice Cruse of Brushford, Somerset - Part IIFrom: mjcl111@googlemail.comTo: ajf12345@hotmail.com; OLD-ENGLISH@rootsweb.com; DEBBIEKENNETT@aol.com Hi I read it as below :- 1. It[em[ one standing Bedsteed one Bed=ty 2. 2 feather boulsters 2 blanketts and iij - o - o 3. 2 coverletts 4. It[em] one silver spoone o - vj - viij 5. It[em] [? 2 sybbs] one fate one Tub & 2 pailes o - xv - o 6. It[em] 2 candlestickes one stiling Iron 7. one spitt and one Tub o - v - o 8. It[em] vessle Tymber and other things 9. forgott and out of mynd o - ij - vj 10. Sum[ma] tot[alis] xij - vij - o 11. Richard Bishop 12. George Gooding I am still uncertain of the first letter of the first item in Line 5 as to whether its an S or I (J) ...... i take the sybbs to be sieves and if its an I (J) then I take it to be jibs ...... All the best Martyn On 04/02/2009, aj smith <ajf12345@hotmail.com> wrote: Unsolved... 1674 Inventory of Alice Cruse of Brushford, Somerset - Part II 1. It one standing Bedsteed one Bed=ty? [modern = tie?] 2. 2 feather boulsters 2 blanketts and 3. 2 coversetts iij o o 4. It one silver spoone o vj viij 5. It 2 jybbs one fate one Tub x 2 pailes o xv o [modern=jibs] 6. It 2 candlestickes one filing Iron 7. one spitt and one Tub o v o 7. It tressle tymber and other things 8. forgot and out of mynd o ij vj 9. sum tot xij vij o [suma totalis] 10. Richard Bishop 11. George Goodring_________________________________________________________________Check out the new and improved services from Windows Live. Learn more!http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/132630768/direct/01/====================================WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH-------------------------------To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail, Messenger, Photos and more - all with the new Windows Live. Get started! http://www.download.live.com/

Austin Thanks for the interest in this old inventory of mine. We did read the word before as jybbs. A gib is an iron hook or a pot clip. It could equally be an S at the beginning of the word, but sieve seems less likely as the kitchen equipment is dealt with in the earlier part of the inventory. The vat, tub and pails sound to me like the equipment used for the laundry. Would they have used a sieve for washing in the 1600s? Debbie Kennett

Hi I read it as below :- 1. It[em[ one standing Bedsteed one Bed=ty 2. 2 feather boulsters 2 blanketts and iij - o - o 3. 2 coverletts 4. It[em] one silver spoone o - vj - viij 5. It[em] [? 2 sybbs] one fate one Tub & 2 pailes o - xv - o 6. It[em] 2 candlestickes one stiling Iron 7. one spitt and one Tub o - v - o 8. It[em] vessle Tymber and other things 9. forgott and out of mynd o - ij - vj 10. Sum[ma] tot[alis] xij - vij - o 11. Richard Bishop 12. George Gooding I am still uncertain of the first letter of the first item in Line 5 as to whether its an S or I (J) ...... i take the sybbs to be sieves and if its an I (J) then I take it to be jibs ...... All the best Martyn On 04/02/2009, aj smith <ajf12345@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > Unsolved... 1674 Inventory of Alice Cruse of Brushford, Somerset - Part > II 1. It one standing Bedsteed one Bed=ty? [modern = > tie?] 2. 2 feather boulsters 2 blanketts and 3. 2 > coversetts iij o o 4. It one silver spoone o vj viij 5. It 2 > jybbs one fate one Tub x 2 pailes o xv o [modern=jibs] 6. It 2 > candlestickes one filing Iron 7. one spitt and one Tub o v o 7. It > tressle tymber and other things 8. forgot and out of > mynd o ij vj 9. sum > tot xij vij o [suma totalis] > 10. Richard Bishop 11. George Goodring > _________________________________________________________________ > Check out the new and improved services from Windows Live. Learn more! > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/132630768/direct/01/ > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Unsolved... 1674 Inventory of Alice Cruse of Brushford, Somerset - Part II 1. It one standing Bedsteed one Bed=ty? [modern = tie?] 2. 2 feather boulsters 2 blanketts and 3. 2 coversetts iij o o 4. It one silver spoone o vj viij 5. It 2 jybbs one fate one Tub x 2 pailes o xv o [modern=jibs] 6. It 2 candlestickes one filing Iron 7. one spitt and one Tub o v o 7. It tressle tymber and other things 8. forgot and out of mynd o ij vj 9. sum tot xij vij o [suma totalis] 10. Richard Bishop 11. George Goodring _________________________________________________________________ Check out the new and improved services from Windows Live. Learn more! http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/132630768/direct/01/

Hi Mike This is just the normal opening in wills for that time "In the name of God" but written in abbreviated Latin, so "In dei no[mi]ne". The dots are just to indicate the end of the phrase and possibly the abbreviation - although that would normally have been indicated by a tilde (~) over the none itself. Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Nason" <mfcn@btinternet.com> To: "List, OE" <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 12:12 PM Subject: [OEL] Will, opening phrase Colleagues, I am hoping to assist a Canadian friend with a Warwickshire will dated February 1551. It would seem to be a will written in the legatrix's own hand - it is unsigned by her and was probated in July 1552. The will has an opening phrase which could be in Latin /'In lei none/ (with abbreviation mark. horiz line over) /omnes?' /and I suspect it may qualify the whole document. Then follows what looks like the mathematical symbol for 'therefore' (3 dots) before '/I Joan tymes of Sutton/ . . .' I have a PDF of the Latin? phrase if someone would care to take a look. Mike Nason ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Mike, I think the first three words are probably 'In dei no[mi]ne', meaning 'in God's name'. The 'omnes' bit is a bit strange in a will, but may be an abbreviation of a phrase commonly found at the start of title deeds, meaning 'To all who see this ...' (though that ought really to be 'Omnibus ...'). Could it be 'Amen'? Anyway, send me the Pdf and I'll have a look. Matt Tompkins -----Original Message----- From: Mike Nason Sent: 04 February 2009 12:13 To: List, OE Subject: [OEL] Will, opening phrase Colleagues, I am hoping to assist a Canadian friend with a Warwickshire will dated February 1551. It would seem to be a will written in the legatrix's own hand - it is unsigned by her and was probated in July 1552. The will has an opening phrase which could be in Latin /'In lei none/ (with abbreviation mark. horiz line over) /omnes?' /and I suspect it may qualify the whole document. Then follows what looks like the mathematical symbol for 'therefore' (3 dots) before '/I Joan tymes of Sutton/ . . .' I have a PDF of the Latin? phrase if someone would care to take a look. Mike Nason

Colleagues, I am hoping to assist a Canadian friend with a Warwickshire will dated February 1551. It would seem to be a will written in the legatrix's own hand - it is unsigned by her and was probated in July 1552. The will has an opening phrase which could be in Latin /'In lei none/ (with abbreviation mark. horiz line over) /omnes?' /and I suspect it may qualify the whole document. Then follows what looks like the mathematical symbol for 'therefore' (3 dots) before '/I Joan tymes of Sutton/ . . .' I have a PDF of the Latin? phrase if someone would care to take a look. Mike Nason

"In gould of foure" possibly means "of four francs", since gold pistoles (usually 10 francs) and pistolets varied in value different parts of France and the Swiss cantons:- "Early Cantonal Coins Before 1848, most if not all of the cantons issued their own coins, and there are a variety of different denominations, including ducats, duplone, ecus, pistolet, goldgulden, franken and multiples and fractions of these". {website on early Swiss coinage). ----- Original Message ----- From: "YvonnePurdy" <von@yvonnepurdy.free-online.co.uk> To: <old-english@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 5:20 AM Subject: [OEL] Difficult line in 1590 will > Dear all, > > Many thanks indeed to everyone who responded and offered help with the > difficult word in my 1590 will. The > word appears to be "Pystolet" followed by "in gould of foure the value > 24s", and the term "Pystolet" is an old > name for a foreign gold coin, value c.a. 1590 about 6s. > > I've never come across this term before, so your replies are more than > helpful for me, and much appreciated. > > Thanks for all the help so speedily offered. > > With my best regards, > Yvonne > > > > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ NOD32 3822 (20090203) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > >