Thanks, Martyn, for the page 4 corrections. As usual I agree with all of them. Now here is Page 5. I'll leave the Latin probate on page 6 for someone else. Cheers, liz 1. duringe her life and after her death to make stock[es][?] 2. for her Children borne of her bodie the s[ai]d six and 3. twentie shilling[es] and eight pence to be paide 4, quarterly duringe the s[ai]d Xy[s]tian[?] Joyliefes life 5. and the life of Richard Crumpelher and the 6. longest liver of them Item I give unto my sonne 7. John Crumpelher my furnis pann[?] provided alwaies 8. that my wife and Richard Crumpelher his brother 9. shall have the use of him to brewe in duringe 10. theire lives and if Richard Crumpelher doe 11. fortune to overlive his Brother John Crumpelher 12. that then my will is that the s[ai]d furnis pann[?] 13. shall remayne unto his brother Richard Crumpelher 14. The residue of all my good[es] not before given 15. nor bequeathed my debts and legacies beinge 16. first paid I give and bequeath unto my 17. sonne John Crumpelher whom I make my 18. whole executor of this my last will and 19. Testament for [?] causes [?] thereunto 20. movinge and of p[?]etially for that the s[ai]d John 21. Crumpelher and his assignes shall duringe my 22. wives life be att all charges for the ploughinge 23. of her grounde and barryinge in her corne and 24. hey and barryinge all such fryth and fier wood 25. as she shall have occasion to use at his and 26. theire owne cost[es] and charges without payinge 27. any homige for the same; Item my will is 28. that my sonne Richard Crumpelher shall have 29. the use of halfe the p[ar]sonage of Winterborne 30. Kingston and my sonne Will[ia]m Crumpelher and 31. John Crumpelher the use of thother hafe for 32. these six yeares from and after Midsomer day 33. next, doeinge, payinge and p[er]forming all such 34. covenant[es] as shalbe in a lease expressed which is 35. to be graunted unto them by John Foyle of 36. Shaf[ts]bury gen[tleman?] and for the lower roomes of 37. the dwellinge howse my will is that my sonne 38. Richard Crumpleher shall have the use of them 39. wholly to himselfe and the lofte to remayne in 40. Com[m]on amongest them all three to lay theire corne 41. in duringe the whole terme and that my sonne 42. Richard shall have the use and p[ro]fitt of all the little 43. garden at the east end of the dwellinge howse and 44. three g [?] square of ground more lyinge in the south 45. side of the dwellinge howse next peaceably 46. wholly to his owne use hidginge it at his owne cost and 47. Charges; Will[ia]m Crumpelher his marke / witnes 48. hereunto Huberte Galltow John Galltow Richard 49. Crumpelher his m[ar]ke Thomas Strangwaies snip

A passage in an indenture of 1712 has a couple of things that intrigue me: "And whereas the said Edward Thornes departed this life intestate in or about the yeare of our Lord God One thousand seven hundred and one And whereas certaine Articles of Agreemt. beareing date the thirteenth day of Aprill seventeene hundred & two Edward Thornes gent Jane Williams & Catherine Hanmer widdows Sister of the said Edwd.Thornes of the one parte & Children of the said Edwd. Thornes the Asignee and John Thornes & Mary Thornes sister of the said Edwd. Thornes of the other parte & other Children of the said Edwd. Thornes the Asignee aforesaid touching the division of the personall Estate of Edward Thornes of Kinaston aforesaid..." The document could not have been redacted in a more confusing manner. There are two Edward Thornes, the one who died in 1701 and his grandson of the same name, also called the "asignee" because he was assigned a lease of the parcel of land in question in 1694. Edward (the "asignee"), John and Mary Thornes were siblings. Catherine Hanmer was neé Thornes, a sister of the older Edward. a) I suspect that Jane Williams was also née Thornes, and was another sister of the older Edward. The text where they are named clearly reads "widdows" - the final "s" is practically identical to the one in Williams in the same line. But then, why "Sister" in singular? A mistake? b) If the unspecified children of Edward Thornes the asignee appear as part the second party, why would they be mentioned again afterwards ("and other children of the said Edward Thornes the Asignee aforesaid")? A third party is not mentioned, perhaps the writer didn't realize he had already included the children earlier in the sentence? I can send a scan of this section if anybody wants to take a look. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thank you! Alejandro Milberg Boston, Mass. **************You're invited to Hollywood's biggest party: Get Oscars updates, red carpet pics and more at Moviefone. (http://movies.aol.com/oscars-academy-awards?ncid=emlcntusmovi00000001)

Hi Matt, Thanks for solving that one. I was not happy with my offering at all!! Having re-examined it I totally agree with e being hidden by the h in the above line. All the best, Martyn 2009/2/23 Tompkins, M.L.L. <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk> > <<44 I read it as yead[es], i.e. yards, which makes sense although the > first > letter does look remarkably like a g!>> > > > I, too, at first read it as 'yeade', also assuming that it meant 'yard', > but the fact that the initial letter was so clearly a 'g', and the second > looked rather more like an 'o' than an 'e', pushed me to look up 'goad' in > the OED, where I found this: > > Goad, n. > > 3. A measure of length. > a. A cloth-measure = 4 feet. Obs. > > 1481 Howard Househ. Bks. (Roxb.) 17 My Lord schal haue of hym iiij.c goodes > off white..and my Lord schal pay him for euery goode, ix.d. > 1552 Act 5 & 6 Edw VI, c. 6 §1 Cottonnes called Manchester..and Chesshire > Cottonnes..shalbe in lenghe twentie two goades and conteyne in bredith thre > quarters of a yarde in the water. > 1674 S. JEAKE Arith. (1696) 65 In 1 Goad..4 Feet, a Measure in some places > for Land and Cloth received by Custom. > 1721 C. KING Brit. Merch. I. 181, 1200 C. Goads of Cotton. > 1727 W. MATHER Yng. Man's Comp. 399 In London, the Yard is used for Silks, > Woollen Cloth, &c. The Ell for Linnen Cloth, &c., and the Goad for Frizes, > Cotton, and the like. > > b. A land-measure (see quots. and cf. GAD 6). > > 1587 FLEMING Contn. Holinshed III. 1353/1 The space of fortie goad (euerie > goad conteining fifteene foot). > 1880 E. Cornw. Gloss. s.v., It represents nine feet, and two goads square > is called a yard of ground. > > > The Gad 6 entry says: > > Gad, n. > > 6. A measuring rod for land; hence, a measure of length differing in > various districts. Cf. GOAD n. > > c1440 Promp. Parv. 184/1 Gad, to mete wythe londe (P. gadde, or rodde), > decempeda. > 1502 ARNOLDE Chron. (1811) 173 In dyuers odur placis in this lande they > mete ground by pollis gaddis and roddis some be of xviij. foote some of xx > fote and som xvi fote in lengith. > 1599 SKENE De Verb. Sign. s.v. Particata, Ane rod is ane staffe, or gade of > tymmer, quhairwith land is measured. > 1706 PHILLIPS (ed. Kersey), Gad, or Geometrical Pearch, a Measure of Ten > Foot, and in some places but Nine Foot. > > b. A division of an open pasture, in Lincolnshire usually 6 feet wide; = > SWATH. > > 1593 Kirton-in-Lindsey Court Roll (N.W. Linc. Gloss.). > 1717 N. Riding Rec. VII. 285, I am seized of..four gads in the Bishop Ings. > 1794 Act Inclos. S. Kelsey 19 Owners and Proprietors of Gads in a certain > Piece of Ground..each Gad being Two Roods, Two Perches and a Half. > > > If you look carefully the final letter, hidden under the tail of the h in > the line above, it is 'e', not -es. > > Matt Tompkins > > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/<http://homepages.rootsweb.com/%7Eoel/> > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

<<44 I read it as yead[es], i.e. yards, which makes sense although the first letter does look remarkably like a g!>> I, too, at first read it as 'yeade', also assuming that it meant 'yard', but the fact that the initial letter was so clearly a 'g', and the second looked rather more like an 'o' than an 'e', pushed me to look up 'goad' in the OED, where I found this: Goad, n. 3. A measure of length. a. A cloth-measure = 4 feet. Obs. 1481 Howard Househ. Bks. (Roxb.) 17 My Lord schal haue of hym iiij.c goodes off white..and my Lord schal pay him for euery goode, ix.d. 1552 Act 5 & 6 Edw VI, c. 6 §1 Cottonnes called Manchester..and Chesshire Cottonnes..shalbe in lenghe twentie two goades and conteyne in bredith thre quarters of a yarde in the water. 1674 S. JEAKE Arith. (1696) 65 In 1 Goad..4 Feet, a Measure in some places for Land and Cloth received by Custom. 1721 C. KING Brit. Merch. I. 181, 1200 C. Goads of Cotton. 1727 W. MATHER Yng. Man's Comp. 399 In London, the Yard is used for Silks, Woollen Cloth, &c. The Ell for Linnen Cloth, &c., and the Goad for Frizes, Cotton, and the like. b. A land-measure (see quots. and cf. GAD 6). 1587 FLEMING Contn. Holinshed III. 1353/1 The space of fortie goad (euerie goad conteining fifteene foot). 1880 E. Cornw. Gloss. s.v., It represents nine feet, and two goads square is called a yard of ground. The Gad 6 entry says: Gad, n. 6. A measuring rod for land; hence, a measure of length differing in various districts. Cf. GOAD n. c1440 Promp. Parv. 184/1 Gad, to mete wythe londe (P. gadde, or rodde), decempeda. 1502 ARNOLDE Chron. (1811) 173 In dyuers odur placis in this lande they mete ground by pollis gaddis and roddis some be of xviij. foote some of xx fote and som xvi fote in lengith. 1599 SKENE De Verb. Sign. s.v. Particata, Ane rod is ane staffe, or gade of tymmer, quhairwith land is measured. 1706 PHILLIPS (ed. Kersey), Gad, or Geometrical Pearch, a Measure of Ten Foot, and in some places but Nine Foot. b. A division of an open pasture, in Lincolnshire usually 6 feet wide; = SWATH. 1593 Kirton-in-Lindsey Court Roll (N.W. Linc. Gloss.). 1717 N. Riding Rec. VII. 285, I am seized of..four gads in the Bishop Ings. 1794 Act Inclos. S. Kelsey 19 Owners and Proprietors of Gads in a certain Piece of Ground..each Gad being Two Roods, Two Perches and a Half. If you look carefully the final letter, hidden under the tail of the h in the line above, it is 'e', not -es. Matt Tompkins

Hi Liz, Again only a few minor alterations - 1 stock[es] is ok 2 the children 3 paied 4 [Chris]tian 7 & 12 pann is ok 15 debt[es] 16 paied 19 first one is div[er]s the second on I took as a hurriedly written and having compared with other examples 20 especially 23 ground Carryinge 24 carryinge 25 occation - the top of the t can just be seen as it merges with the descender from the line above 27 thinge rather than homige 36 I agree with gen[tleman] although I suppose it could equally be gen[erosus] 39 loft[es] 44 I read it as yead[es], i.e. yards, which makes sense although the first letter does look remarkably like a g! 48 Gallton - there is a flourish on each occasion above the final n Alll the best Martyn 2009/2/23 Elizabeth Agar <emagar@hotkey.net.au> > Thanks, Martyn, for the page 4 corrections. As usual I agree with all of > them. > Now here is Page 5. > > I'll leave the Latin probate on page 6 for someone else. > > Cheers, > > liz > > > snip

Hi all, I think I need a break! Line 30 in page 3 should read 30. and meadowe ground[es], and halfe the p[ro]fitt of the And for something new, Page 4: 1. except some beddinge which she may dispose at her will 2. and pleasure and after the death of the s[ai]d Edith my 3. wife my will is that my sonne Richard Crumpelher shall 4. have the one halfe of my livinge accordinge unto 5. my former graunt made unto him under my hand 6. in writinge, Item my will is that my said sonne 7. Richard Crumpelher shall presently after my 8. decease have and possesse halfe of all my sev[er]all 9. ground[es] and halfe of all my meadowe ground[es] 10. duringe his mothers life payinge for the same six 11/ pound[es] yearely unto my sonne John Crumpelher And 13. that the said Richard Crumpelher shall pay two 14. yeares rent aforehand for the two first yeares 15. and aferwards to paye the s[ai]d six pound[es] halfe yearely 16. by even porc]i]ons Item my will is that my sonne 17. John Crumpelher shall have p[rese]ntely after my death 18. the other halfe of my errable ground lyinge in the 19. three Com[m]on fields of Kingston duringe his mothers 20. life withall the appurtenanc[es] thereunto belonginge 21. and after her use and p[ro]fitt of the fowerth p[ar]te of all my 22. sev[er]all ground[es], and meadowes, and all the rent of 23. six pound[es] yearely for the other half of the said 24. sev[er]all ground[es] and meadowes which his brother 25. Richard Crumpelher is to pay him as I have before 26. sett downe and appoynted duringe theire mothers 27. life the s[ai]d John Crumpelher payinge thother three 28. p[ar]t[es] of all duties, rent[es], and rep[ar]ac[i]ons against his 29. mother duringe her life; And besides that my sonne 30. John Crumpelher shall have sufficient howse roome 31. as well within dores as without bothe farme, stable 32. and other howsinge fitt for his use and halfe the 33. orchard and garden, against his mother duringe 34. his said mothers life; And after her death of the 35. s[ai]d Edith my wife I give and bequeath unto 36. my s[ai]d sonne John Crumpelher thother halfe of my 37. Farme withall the appurtenanc[es] thereunto belonginge 38. to be enioyed by him and his assignes against his 39. brother Richard Crumpelher for by and duringe the 40. whole time and terme of my lease in as large 41. and ample manner as is in the s[ai]d lease specified 42. duringe payinge and p[er]forminge all covenants herein 43. conteyned and payinge halfe of all rent[es], duties, and 44. other payment[es], whatsoever and in repayringe of halfe 45. of all the howsing[es] and hedging[es] upon the farme; And 46. Alsoe payinge after my s[ai]d wives death six and 47 twentie shilling[es] and eight pence yearely unto 48. mydaughter Christian Joyleife or unto such as I 49. have appoynted already to recant[?] the same to her use Page 5 in progress. Liz

<<I'll leave the Latin probate on page 6 for someone else.>> A translation is: "The before written testament of William Crumpelher of Winterborne Kingston deceased was proved before the reverend Sir John Gordon Doctor of Theology Dean of the Cathedral church of Salisbury on the thirteenth day of the month of May AD 1614. There was granted etc to the executors named in the same sworn in the lawful form etc Saving the rights of anyone etc [in the margin:] Value of the Inventory £127 12s. 4d." Also, a friend has pointed out that the two words in the second line of the probate clause on the original 1594 will are "necno[n] tutele", so the whole clause may be translated as: "19th November 1595 was granted administration of the goods etc of Richard Crumplehere and Marie Crumplehere his relict, deceased, and also the guardianship of Thomas Crumplehere their son during his minority, to Richard Michell, Thomas Strangwayes gentleman, Hubert Galton and John Galton, in the person of John Symons notary public, their proxy, sworn etc., and they have to render account at Michaelmas next" Matt Tompkins

I must apologise to Martyn for calling him Matt!! Thank you Martyn for all your corrections. Liz -----Original Message----- From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Agar Sent: Monday, 23 February 2009 7:02 AM To: OLD-ENGLISH@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] Will of William Crumpleher 1614 Page 3 line 30: The missing word is meadowe. Liz -----Original Message----- From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Agar Sent: Monday, 23 February 2009 6:35 AM To: OLD-ENGLISH@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] Will of William Crumpleher 1614 Thanks again, Matt. The corrected page 3 is below. I have made a couple of extra corrrections, in lines 29 & 30 -- ground[es] not grounds. A mistake I keep making! Page 4 later. Liz snip

HI Liz I agree with following minor exceptions ....... 19 feild[es] 21 and alsoe the use 31 barne not farme 32 howsing[es] 42 covenant[es] therein 44 whatsoev[er] 45 same not farme 49 recave (i.e. receive) All the best Martyn 2009/2/23 Elizabeth Agar <emagar@hotkey.net.au> > Hi all, > > I think I need a break! Line 30 in page 3 should read > > 30. and meadowe ground[es], and halfe the p[ro]fitt of the > > And for something new, Page 4: > > 1. except some beddinge which she may dispose at her will > 2. and pleasure and after the death of the s[ai]d Edith my > 3. wife my will is that my sonne Richard Crumpelher shall > 4. have the one halfe of my livinge accordinge unto > 5. my former graunt made unto him under my hand > 6. in writinge, Item my will is that my said sonne > 7. Richard Crumpelher shall presently after my > 8. decease have and possesse halfe of all my sev[er]all > 9. ground[es] and halfe of all my meadowe ground[es] > 10. duringe his mothers life payinge for the same six > 11/ pound[es] yearely unto my sonne John Crumpelher And > 13. that the said Richard Crumpelher shall pay two > 14. yeares rent aforehand for the two first yeares > 15. and aferwards to paye the s[ai]d six pound[es] halfe yearely > 16. by even porc]i]ons Item my will is that my sonne > 17. John Crumpelher shall have p[rese]ntely after my death > 18. the other halfe of my errable ground lyinge in the > 19. three Com[m]on fields of Kingston duringe his mothers > 20. life withall the appurtenanc[es] thereunto belonginge > 21. and after her use and p[ro]fitt of the fowerth p[ar]te of all my > 22. sev[er]all ground[es], and meadowes, and all the rent of > 23. six pound[es] yearely for the other half of the said > 24. sev[er]all ground[es] and meadowes which his brother > 25. Richard Crumpelher is to pay him as I have before > 26. sett downe and appoynted duringe theire mothers > 27. life the s[ai]d John Crumpelher payinge thother three > 28. p[ar]t[es] of all duties, rent[es], and rep[ar]ac[i]ons against his > 29. mother duringe her life; And besides that my sonne > 30. John Crumpelher shall have sufficient howse roome > 31. as well within dores as without bothe farme, stable > 32. and other howsinge fitt for his use and halfe the > 33. orchard and garden, against his mother duringe > 34. his said mothers life; And after her death of the > 35. s[ai]d Edith my wife I give and bequeath unto > 36. my s[ai]d sonne John Crumpelher thother halfe of my > 37. Farme withall the appurtenanc[es] thereunto belonginge > 38. to be enioyed by him and his assignes against his > 39. brother Richard Crumpelher for by and duringe the > 40. whole time and terme of my lease in as large > 41. and ample manner as is in the s[ai]d lease specified > 42. duringe payinge and p[er]forminge all covenants herein > 43. conteyned and payinge halfe of all rent[es], duties, and > 44. other payment[es], whatsoever and in repayringe of halfe > 45. of all the howsing[es] and hedging[es] upon the farme; And > 46. Alsoe payinge after my s[ai]d wives death six and > 47 twentie shilling[es] and eight pence yearely unto > 48. mydaughter Christian Joyleife or unto such as I > 49. have appoynted already to recant[?] the same to her use > > Page 5 in progress. > > Liz > > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/<http://homepages.rootsweb.com/%7Eoel/> > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Page 3 line 30: The missing word is meadowe. Liz -----Original Message----- From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Agar Sent: Monday, 23 February 2009 6:35 AM To: OLD-ENGLISH@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] Will of William Crumpleher 1614 Thanks again, Matt. The corrected page 3 is below. I have made a couple of extra corrrections, in lines 29 & 30 -- ground[es] not grounds. A mistake I keep making! Page 4 later. Liz Page 3 1. In the name of god Amen 2. the sixth day of Aprill in the yeares of the reigne 3. of our Sov[er]aigne Lord James by the grace 4. of god of England France and Ireland 5. Kinge defender of the faith etc the twelfe and 6. of Scotland the seaven and fortieth Anno D[om]ini 7. one thowsand six hundred and fourteene I Will[ia]m 8. Crumpleher of Winterborne Kingston in the 9. Countie of Dors[e]t yeoman beinge sicke in body 10. but of good and p[er]fect remembrance thanks be 11. given unto almightie god doe make my last 12. will and testament in mann[er] and forme following 13. First I Comitt my soule unto almightie god 14. my creator and redeemer by whose death 15. and passion I hope to be saved and my bodey 16. to be buried in the Church litten of Kingston 17. aforesaid as neere unto the place as my father 18. was buried as may bee Item I give unto 19. the rep[ar]ac[i]ons of my p[ar]ish Church of Kingston 20. five shillings. Item I give unto Will[ia]m 21. Joeyleife, George Gould, Prudence Crumpleher 22. and Margarett Fryers my Children's children 23. to eyther of them a sheepe being hogg[es] Item my 24. will is that my wife Edith Crumpleher shall have 25. the use and p[ro]fitt of halfe of all my errable 26. land lyinge within the three com[m]on feilds of 27. Kingston afores[ai]d togeather with all the appurtenanc[es] 28. thereunto belonginge and the Comoditie and p[ro]fitt 29. of the fowerth p[ar]te of all my severall ground[es] 30. and my --?-- ground[es], and halfe the p[ro]fitt of the 31. orchard, garden and all other necessarie comodities 32. with sufficient howse roome bothe within dores and 33. without to laye her Corne and hay in and 34. howse roome to lye her beasts in, and the use and 35. occupation of halfe of all my goods both within 36. dores and without, bothe Corne as well within 37. dores as in the barne, and likewise halfe my 38. Corne in the fields; and halfe my beasts and 39. sheepe to be enioyed by her duringe her life 40. payinge the fowerth p[ar]te of duties rent[es] and 41. rep[ar]ac[i]ons what soever during her life, And after 42. her decease all the said goods and Cattels that 43. my s[ai]d wife shall have the use and occupac[i]on of my 44. virtue of this my will shall remayne unto my 45. sonne John Crumpleher if he be living except ________________________________________

Thanks again, Matt. The corrected page 3 is below. I have made a couple of extra corrrections, in lines 29 & 30 -- ground[es] not grounds. A mistake I keep making! Page 4 later. Liz Page 3 1. In the name of god Amen 2. the sixth day of Aprill in the yeares of the reigne 3. of our Sov[er]aigne Lord James by the grace 4. of god of England France and Ireland 5. Kinge defender of the faith etc the twelfe and 6. of Scotland the seaven and fortieth Anno D[om]ini 7. one thowsand six hundred and fourteene I Will[ia]m 8. Crumpleher of Winterborne Kingston in the 9. Countie of Dors[e]t yeoman beinge sicke in body 10. but of good and p[er]fect remembrance thanks be 11. given unto almightie god doe make my last 12. will and testament in mann[er] and forme following 13. First I Comitt my soule unto almightie god 14. my creator and redeemer by whose death 15. and passion I hope to be saved and my bodey 16. to be buried in the Church litten of Kingston 17. aforesaid as neere unto the place as my father 18. was buried as may bee Item I give unto 19. the rep[ar]ac[i]ons of my p[ar]ish Church of Kingston 20. five shillings. Item I give unto Will[ia]m 21. Joeyleife, George Gould, Prudence Crumpleher 22. and Margarett Fryers my Children’s children 23. to eyther of them a sheepe being hogg[es] Item my 24. will is that my wife Edith Crumpleher shall have 25. the use and p[ro]fitt of halfe of all my errable 26. land lyinge within the three com[m]on feilds of 27. Kingston afores[ai]d togeather with all the appurtenanc[es] 28. thereunto belonginge and the Comoditie and p[ro]fitt 29. of the fowerth p[ar]te of all my severall ground[es] 30. and my --?-- ground[es], and halfe the p[ro]fitt of the 31. orchard, garden and all other necessarie comodities 32. with sufficient howse roome bothe within dores and 33. without to laye her Corne and hay in and 34. howse roome to lye her beasts in, and the use and 35. occupation of halfe of all my goods both within 36. dores and without, bothe Corne as well within 37. dores as in the barne, and likewise halfe my 38. Corne in the fields; and halfe my beasts and 39. sheepe to be enioyed by her duringe her life 40. payinge the fowerth p[ar]te of duties rent[es] and 41. rep[ar]ac[i]ons what soever during her life, And after 42. her decease all the said goods and Cattels that 43. my s[ai]d wife shall have the use and occupac[i]on of my 44. virtue of this my will shall remayne unto my 45. sonne John Crumpleher if he be living except ________________________________________ From: mjcl [mailto:mjcl111@googlemail.com] Sent: Monday, 23 February 2009 2:31 AM To: Elizabeth Agar Cc: OLD-ENGLISH@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] Will of William Crumpleher 1614 Hi Liz, 2   sixth , yeares 4   is a struck through 'l' or similar 5   &c 6   is seaven 9   Dors[e]t 16 litten - i.e. church yard 18 bee 19 rep[ar]ac[i]ons 21 Jeoylife  ...... modern spelling Joliffe 23 eyther  sheepe   hogg[es] 27 appurtenanc[es] 28 necessarie comodities 34 lye 40 rent[es] 41 rep[ar]ac[i]ons 43 by 44 vertue of this my will shall remayne unto my 46 sonne John Crumpelher if he be livinge except All the best Martyn snip

Thanks Matt, I agree with the 12th Jamuary. I transcribed the copy then just tried to spot the differences with the original and missed the clearer xij. Amd x li is obvious once you know!! Once all comments are in, I'll correct the transcription and send it all to Craig. I'll have a go at more in the morning. Thanks also for the Latin bits. The writing is hard enough without my very deficient Latin. Liz -----Original Message----- From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tompkins, M.L.L. Sent: Sunday, 22 February 2009 9:52 PM To: OLD-ENGLISH@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] How can I find and hire a translator? - Page 1and 2 Hello Liz, the date of the first will, in both copies, is xij, ie 12th January, not 11th January (it's fairly clear in the original will, in photo 2, but less clear in the will register copy in photo 1, where the j in xij runs into the t of th). The yearly annuity from Richard Michell is x li', ie 10 libre or £10. I've sent Craig English translations of the two probate clauses, as follows. There are four bits, two in each, where I either can't decipher the hand or am not sure how to translate it - I'd be grateful for any suggestions on what they say or mean. They're indicated by asterisks. Matt Tompkins [Will register probate clause:] On the nineteenth day of the month of November AD 1595 was granted administration \?and letters of ?guardianship*/ of all and singular the goods rights and credits of Richard Crumplehere deceased, late, while he lived, parishioner of Winterborne Kingston, a peculiar jurisdiction of the Dean of Salisbury, ?from intestacy**, to Richard Michell, Thomas Strangwayes gentleman, Hubert Galton and John Galton during the minority of Thomas Crumplehere ,son of the said deceased, in the person of John Symes their proxy, sworn well and truly to administer and to pay the debts … … * the original Latin appears to be 'ac l’ro ?Vitele'. ** the original Latin is 'ab intestat’ [Original will probate endorsement:] 19th November 1595 was granted administration of the goods etc of Richard Crumplehere and Marie Crumplehere his relict, deceased, ?--- ---* to Thomas Crumplehere their son, during his minority to Richard Michell, Thomas Strangwayes gentleman, Hubert Galton and John Galton, in the person of John Symes notary, public, their proxy, sworn etc., and they have to render account at the feast of ?---* next ________________________________________ From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Agar [emagar@hotkey.net.au] Sent: 21 February 2009 21:32 To: OLD-ENGLISH@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] How can I find and hire a translator? - Page 1and 2 As Craig has published the URL of his documents, herewith my attempt at the first 2 pages. Perhaps someone can fill in the blanks and/or correct me. The first page seems to be a copy of the original will which appears on the second page. I haven't attempted the Latin probates although I think probate was granted on 19th November 1595? The second page appears to be the original of this will and varies only a little from the copy. I include that below as well. Cheers, Liz in Melbourne Copy (page 1) 1. In the name of God Amen 1594 I Richard 2. Crunplehere of the p[ar]ish of Winterborne Kingston 3. sick in body but of good and p[er]fect remembrance 4. do make this[?] my last will and Testament the 5. xith of Januarie in man[ner and Forme Following 6. First I comitt my soule into the hands of 7. allmighti god and my body to be buried in 8. Christian buriall Item I give to my p[ar]ish 9. Church of Kingstone xijd Item to the poore 10. of the same p[ar]ish xijd whereas I receaved 11. yearley during the terme of fower or fyve yeare[s] 12. of Mr Richard Mychell --?-- by the yere to the 13. use of mary my Wiff and Thomas my sonne In 14. Considerac[i]on hereof I give and bequeth to mary 15. my Wiff and Thomas my sonne all my goods and 16. Cattels moveable and unmoveable in full satisfac[tion] 17. of the anuiti aforsaid In Witness whereof I 18. have putt my hand and witness Mr Richard 19. Michell Thomas Strongways Robert Powell 20. Clarke Original (Page 2): 1. In the name of God Amen 1594 I Richard [Crum]plhere of 2. the p[ar]ish of Winterborne Kingstone sicke in bodie but 3. of good and p[er]fect remembrance, doe make my last 4. will and Testament ^the xith of Januarie^ in man[ner and forme following 5. first I comitt my soule into to Almightie god & my bodie 6. to be buried in Christian buryall 7. Item I geve to my p[ar]ish Church of Kingstone xijd 8. Item to the poore of the same p[ar]ish --?-- xijd 9. whereas I rec[-?-] yearely during the terme of 10. foure or five yeares of Mr Richard Mychell --?-- by 11. the yere to the use of marie my Wiffe and 12. Thomas my son[ne], In Considerac[i]on hereof I 13. geve and bequeth to marie my Wiff and Thomas my 14. son[ne] all my goods and cattels moveable and 15. unmoveable in full satisfac[tion] of the anuytie 16. aforsaid 17. In Witnesse hereof I have putte my hand 18. --?-- Mr Richard Mychell 19. Thomas Strongwayes 20. Robert Powell /Clerke/

Hello everyone, Herewith my attempt at page 3 of Craig's merged document at http://www.lordoflucies.com/tng/histories/Crumpler.pdf Comments and corrections welcomed. That's all from me till tomorrow -- feeding time and Charles Darwin followed by BBC's Cranford are on the box tonight. Cheers, Liz in Melbourne Page 3 1. In the name of god Amen 2. the first day of Aprill in the yeare of the reigne 3. of our Sov[er]aigne Lord James by the grace 4. of god [?] of England France and Ireland 5. Kinge defender of the faith --?-- the twelfe and 6. of Scotland the seaven[?] and fortieth Anno D[om]ini 7. one thowsand six hundred and fourteene I Will[ia]m 8. Crumpleher of Winterborne Kingston in the 9. Countie of Dorset yeoman beinge sicke in body 10. but of good and p[er]fect remembrance thanks be 11. given unto almightie god doe make my last 12. will and testament in mann[er] and forme following 13. First I Comitt my soule unto almightie god 14. my creator and redeemer by whose death 15. and passion I hope to be saved and my bodey 16. to be buried in the Church --?-- of Kingston 17. aforesaid as neere unto the place as my father 18. was buried as may be Item I give unto 19. the rep[ar]ations of my p[ar]ish Church of Kingston 20. five shillings. Item I give unto Will[ia]m 21. Jean?eif, George Gould, Prudence Crumpleher 22. and Margarett Fryers my Children's children 23. to either of them a --?-- being --?-- Item my 24. will is that my wife Edith Crumpleher shall have 25. the use and p[ro]fitt of halfe of all my errable 26. land lyinge within the three com[m]on feilds of 27. Kingston afores[ai]d togeather with all the appurtenances 28. thereunto belonginge and the Comoditie and p[ro]fitt 29. of the fowerth p[ar]te of all my severall grounds 30. and my --?-- grounds, and halfe the p[ro]fitt of the 31. orchard, garden and all other --?-Farme comodities 32. with sufficient howse roome bothe within dores and 33. without to laye her Corne and hay in and 34. howse roome to --?-- her beasts in, and the use and 35. occupation of halfe of all my goods both within 36. dores and without, bothe Corne as well within 37. dores as in the barne, and likewise halfe my 38. Corne in the fields; and halfe my beasts and 39. sheepe to be enioyed by her duringe her life 40. payinge the fowerth p[ar]te of duties rente and 41. reparac[i]ons what soever during her life, And after 42. her decease all the said goods and Cattels that 43. my s[ai]d wife shall have the use and occupac[i]on of my 44. [unreadable - most of line missing]

Hi Liz, 2 sixth , yeares 4 is a struck through 'l' or similar 5 &c 6 is seaven 9 Dors[e]t 16 litten - i.e. church yard 18 bee 19 rep[ar]ac[i]ons 21 Jeoylife ...... modern spelling Joliffe 23 eyther sheepe hogg[es] 27 appurtenanc[es] 28 necessarie comodities 34 lye 40 rent[es] 41 rep[ar]ac[i]ons 43 by 44 vertue of this my will shall remayne unto my 46 sonne John Crumpelher if he be livinge except All the best Martyn 2009/2/22 Elizabeth Agar <emagar@hotkey.net.au> > Hello everyone, > > Herewith my attempt at page 3 of Craig's merged document at > http://www.lordoflucies.com/tng/histories/Crumpler.pdf > > Comments and corrections welcomed. > > That's all from me till tomorrow -- feeding time and Charles Darwin > followed > by BBC's Cranford are on the box tonight. > > Cheers, > Liz in Melbourne > > Page 3 > 1. In the name of god Amen > 2. the first day of Aprill in the yeare of the reigne > 3. of our Sov[er]aigne Lord James by the grace > 4. of god [?] of England France and Ireland > 5. Kinge defender of the faith --?-- the twelfe and > 6. of Scotland the seaven[?] and fortieth Anno D[om]ini > 7. one thowsand six hundred and fourteene I Will[ia]m > 8. Crumpleher of Winterborne Kingston in the > 9. Countie of Dorset yeoman beinge sicke in body > 10. but of good and p[er]fect remembrance thanks be > 11. given unto almightie god doe make my last > 12. will and testament in mann[er] and forme following > 13. First I Comitt my soule unto almightie god > 14. my creator and redeemer by whose death > 15. and passion I hope to be saved and my bodey > 16. to be buried in the Church --?-- of Kingston > 17. aforesaid as neere unto the place as my father > 18. was buried as may be Item I give unto > 19. the rep[ar]ations of my p[ar]ish Church of Kingston > 20. five shillings. Item I give unto Will[ia]m > 21. Jean?eif, George Gould, Prudence Crumpleher > 22. and Margarett Fryers my Children's children > 23. to either of them a --?-- being --?-- Item my > 24. will is that my wife Edith Crumpleher shall have > 25. the use and p[ro]fitt of halfe of all my errable > 26. land lyinge within the three com[m]on feilds of > 27. Kingston afores[ai]d togeather with all the appurtenances > 28. thereunto belonginge and the Comoditie and p[ro]fitt > 29. of the fowerth p[ar]te of all my severall grounds > 30. and my --?-- grounds, and halfe the p[ro]fitt of the > 31. orchard, garden and all other --?-Farme comodities > 32. with sufficient howse roome bothe within dores and > 33. without to laye her Corne and hay in and > 34. howse roome to --?-- her beasts in, and the use and > 35. occupation of halfe of all my goods both within > 36. dores and without, bothe Corne as well within > 37. dores as in the barne, and likewise halfe my > 38. Corne in the fields; and halfe my beasts and > 39. sheepe to be enioyed by her duringe her life > 40. payinge the fowerth p[ar]te of duties rente and > 41. reparac[i]ons what soever during her life, And after > 42. her decease all the said goods and Cattels that > 43. my s[ai]d wife shall have the use and occupac[i]on of my > 44. [unreadable - most of line missing] > > > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/<http://homepages.rootsweb.com/%7Eoel/> > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

From: eve@varneys.org.uk [eve@varneys.org.uk] <<lre tutele>> <<Mich(aelma)s>> Thank you, Eve. I knew I'd kick myself once the answer had been pointed out. Matt

Hello Liz, the date of the first will, in both copies, is xij, ie 12th January, not 11th January (it's fairly clear in the original will, in photo 2, but less clear in the will register copy in photo 1, where the j in xij runs into the t of th). The yearly annuity from Richard Michell is x li', ie 10 libre or £10. I've sent Craig English translations of the two probate clauses, as follows. There are four bits, two in each, where I either can't decipher the hand or am not sure how to translate it - I'd be grateful for any suggestions on what they say or mean. They're indicated by asterisks. Matt Tompkins [Will register probate clause:] On the nineteenth day of the month of November AD 1595 was granted administration \?and letters of ?guardianship*/ of all and singular the goods rights and credits of Richard Crumplehere deceased, late, while he lived, parishioner of Winterborne Kingston, a peculiar jurisdiction of the Dean of Salisbury, ?from intestacy**, to Richard Michell, Thomas Strangwayes gentleman, Hubert Galton and John Galton during the minority of Thomas Crumplehere ,son of the said deceased, in the person of John Symes their proxy, sworn well and truly to administer and to pay the debts … … * the original Latin appears to be 'ac l’ro ?Vitele'. ** the original Latin is 'ab intestat’ [Original will probate endorsement:] 19th November 1595 was granted administration of the goods etc of Richard Crumplehere and Marie Crumplehere his relict, deceased, ?--- ---* to Thomas Crumplehere their son, during his minority to Richard Michell, Thomas Strangwayes gentleman, Hubert Galton and John Galton, in the person of John Symes notary, public, their proxy, sworn etc., and they have to render account at the feast of ?---* next ________________________________________ From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Agar [emagar@hotkey.net.au] Sent: 21 February 2009 21:32 To: OLD-ENGLISH@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] How can I find and hire a translator? - Page 1and 2 As Craig has published the URL of his documents, herewith my attempt at the first 2 pages. Perhaps someone can fill in the blanks and/or correct me. The first page seems to be a copy of the original will which appears on the second page. I haven't attempted the Latin probates although I think probate was granted on 19th November 1595? The second page appears to be the original of this will and varies only a little from the copy. I include that below as well. Cheers, Liz in Melbourne Copy (page 1) 1. In the name of God Amen 1594 I Richard 2. Crunplehere of the p[ar]ish of Winterborne Kingston 3. sick in body but of good and p[er]fect remembrance 4. do make this[?] my last will and Testament the 5. xith of Januarie in man[ner and Forme Following 6. First I comitt my soule into the hands of 7. allmighti god and my body to be buried in 8. Christian buriall Item I give to my p[ar]ish 9. Church of Kingstone xijd Item to the poore 10. of the same p[ar]ish xijd whereas I receaved 11. yearley during the terme of fower or fyve yeare[s] 12. of Mr Richard Mychell --?-- by the yere to the 13. use of mary my Wiff and Thomas my sonne In 14. Considerac[i]on hereof I give and bequeth to mary 15. my Wiff and Thomas my sonne all my goods and 16. Cattels moveable and unmoveable in full satisfac[tion] 17. of the anuiti aforsaid In Witness whereof I 18. have putt my hand and witness Mr Richard 19. Michell Thomas Strongways Robert Powell 20. Clarke Original (Page 2): 1. In the name of God Amen 1594 I Richard [Crum]plhere of 2. the p[ar]ish of Winterborne Kingstone sicke in bodie but 3. of good and p[er]fect remembrance, doe make my last 4. will and Testament ^the xith of Januarie^ in man[ner and forme following 5. first I comitt my soule into to Almightie god & my bodie 6. to be buried in Christian buryall 7. Item I geve to my p[ar]ish Church of Kingstone xijd 8. Item to the poore of the same p[ar]ish --?-- xijd 9. whereas I rec[-?-] yearely during the terme of 10. foure or five yeares of Mr Richard Mychell --?-- by 11. the yere to the use of marie my Wiffe and 12. Thomas my son[ne], In Considerac[i]on hereof I 13. geve and bequeth to marie my Wiff and Thomas my 14. son[ne] all my goods and cattels moveable and 15. unmoveable in full satisfac[tion] of the anuytie 16. aforsaid 17. In Witnesse hereof I have putte my hand 18. --?-- Mr Richard Mychell 19. Thomas Strongwayes 20. Robert Powell /Clerke/

As Craig has published the URL of his documents, herewith my attempt at the first 2 pages. Perhaps someone can fill in the blanks and/or correct me. The first page seems to be a copy of the original will which appears on the second page. I haven't attempted the Latin probates although I think probate was granted on 19th November 1595? The second page appears to be the original of this will and varies only a little from the copy. I include that below as well. Cheers, Liz in Melbourne Copy (page 1) 1. In the name of God Amen 1594 I Richard 2. Crunplehere of the p[ar]ish of Winterborne Kingston 3. sick in body but of good and p[er]fect remembrance 4. do make this[?] my last will and Testament the 5. xith of Januarie in man[ner and Forme Following 6. First I comitt my soule into the hands of 7. allmighti god and my body to be buried in 8. Christian buriall Item I give to my p[ar]ish 9. Church of Kingstone xijd Item to the poore 10. of the same p[ar]ish xijd whereas I receaved 11. yearley during the terme of fower or fyve yeare[s] 12. of Mr Richard Mychell --?-- by the yere to the 13. use of mary my Wiff and Thomas my sonne In 14. Considerac[i]on hereof I give and bequeth to mary 15. my Wiff and Thomas my sonne all my goods and 16. Cattels moveable and unmoveable in full satisfac[tion] 17. of the anuiti aforsaid In Witness whereof I 18. have putt my hand and witness Mr Richard 19. Michell Thomas Strongways Robert Powell 20. Clarke Original (Page 2): 1. In the name of God Amen 1594 I Richard [Crum]plhere of 2. the p[ar]ish of Winterborne Kingstone sicke in bodie but 3. of good and p[er]fect remembrance, doe make my last 4. will and Testament ^the xith of Januarie^ in man[ner and forme following 5. first I comitt my soule into to Almightie god & my bodie 6. to be buried in Christian buryall 7. Item I geve to my p[ar]ish Church of Kingstone xijd 8. Item to the poore of the same p[ar]ish --?-- xijd 9. whereas I rec[-?-] yearely during the terme of 10. foure or five yeares of Mr Richard Mychell --?-- by 11. the yere to the use of marie my Wiffe and 12. Thomas my son[ne], In Considerac[i]on hereof I 13. geve and bequeth to marie my Wiff and Thomas my 14. son[ne] all my goods and cattels moveable and 15. unmoveable in full satisfac[tion] of the anuytie 16. aforsaid 17. In Witnesse hereof I have putte my hand 18. --?-- Mr Richard Mychell 19. Thomas Strongwayes 20. Robert Powell /Clerke/ -----Original Message----- From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Craig Walsh Sent: Sunday, 22 February 2009 4:05 AM To: OLD-ENGLISH@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] How can I find and hire a translator? Wow! Thanks for the great response to my posting for assistance with a translation project. I appreciate it. I am all set. Incidentally, I've posted the documents at: http://www.lordoflucies.com/tng/histories/Crumpler.pdf This is a 5MB Adobe Acrobat Reader (PDF) file. Kind regards, Craig Craig W. Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd. * Colletts Green * Worcester * WR2 4RY ******************************************************* 01905-830-380 (In USA 888-880-1531) 07833 433 871 ******************************************************* Sent from my MacBook ________________________________ Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system. ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Wow! Thanks for the great response to my posting for assistance with a translation project. I appreciate it. I am all set. Incidentally, I've posted the documents at: http://www.lordoflucies.com/tng/histories/Crumpler.pdf This is a 5MB Adobe Acrobat Reader (PDF) file. Kind regards, Craig Craig W. Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd. * Colletts Green * Worcester * WR2 4RY ******************************************************* 01905-830-380 (In USA 888-880-1531) 07833 433 871 ******************************************************* Sent from my MacBook ________________________________ Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.

What language is it written in and from what country? Kelly ---------------------------------------- > From: craig@hmdp.com > To: OLD-ENGLISH@rootsweb.com > Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 21:21:30 -0500 > Subject: [OEL] How can I find and hire a translator? > > I just read the posting by Tom Atkinson on January 20. > > Like Tom, I have a lengthy will from 1612 that I simply can't read. I've looked at the detailed tutorials on various websites, but I don't even have the patience to do a crossword puzzle. > > Can anyone recommend a "translator" who would be able to translate this will, and one other shorter document, for me for a fee? I've done a Google search as well, but didn't come up with anyone. > > Please contact me via the list, or directly at craig@hmdp.com. The documents are scanned so they would be easy to send via e-mail. > > Thanks! > > Craig Walsh > > > Craig W. Walsh > Lucies Farm Ltd. * Colletts Green * Worcester * WR2 4RY > ******************************************************* > 01905-830-380 (In USA 888-880-1531) 07833 433 871 > ******************************************************* > Sent from my MacBook > > > ________________________________ > Privacy and Confidentiality Notice > This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system. > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Discover 10 secrets about the new Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!7540.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_ugc_post_022009

Alejandro Milberg wrote: > An indenture dated 1712 has a few instances of an abbreviation that looks > like a "w" with a taller final tail. One instance is in what I assume > means > "Sealed and delivered" - the last word is written "deli(w)ed" - is this > an > abbreviation for "ver"? I'd guess that's a 'v' followed by an abbreviation mark standing for 'er'. You can see some illustrations of this mark (albeit from much earlier documents) here (number 3): http://www.bibliographics.com/PALAEOG-lite/HECTOR.htm Chris Phillips