Hi, Martyn --- I've posted the next Crumplehere (Crumpler) document you kindly transcribed to the family website. The direct link to the document is: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=736&medialinkID=1484 (This is page 8 of the Crumpler2 PDF file.) There is a place for me to describe this document --- and I confess I don't really know how to do so. What is this document? Does it have a particular name or purpose? As always, if there are any corrections, etc., please let me know and I will make them straight away. Thank you for your help with this transcription. On to the next page . . . . Kind regards, Craig Craig W. Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd. * Colletts Green * Worcester * WR2 4RY ******************************************************* 01905-830-380 (In USA 888-880-1531) 07833 433 871 ******************************************************* Sent from my MacBook ________________________________ From: mjcl <mjcl111@googlemail.com> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:07:24 -0500 To: Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com> Subject: Re: Crumpler2 pp. 4 & 5 Hi Craig, When you're dealing with a lot of people, as you are with this transcription process, things like that can easily occur! I attach a couple more for you pp. 8 and 12 (p. 10 was the blank reverse of p. 9). I am now starting on p. 14. All the best, Martyn ________________________________ Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.

Hi Liz and Martyn --- HTML coding problems now fixed -- more or less. Sorry for the slight intrusion of technology. I have now posted the transcriptions of the Richard Crumplehere probate account. Richard's page is located at: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/getperson.php?personID=I1300&tree=Walsh And the probate account (stitched together in Photoshop) and transcription are located at: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=729&medialinkID=1476 (This single document was pages 3, 4, and 5 of the Crumpler2 PDF file.) Please let me know if there are any corrections, changes, amendments, etc. and I will be glad to make them. Thank you for your help with the transcription of this document. I am off to do the next documents that Martyn has kindly sent to me --- pages 8 and 12 from the Crumpler 2 PDF. I will advise when these have been posted to the internet. Kind regards Craig Craig W. Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd. * Colletts Green * Worcester * WR2 4RY ******************************************************* 01905-830-380 (In USA 888-880-1531) 07833 433 871 ******************************************************* Sent from my MacBook ________________________________ From: mjcl <mjcl111@googlemail.com> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 08:37:21 -0500 To: Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com> Subject: Re: Crumpler2 pp. 4 & 5 Hi Craig, It is actually a Probate Account which is the last bit of the grant of probate. You will quite often find in the Latin endorsements reference to a full account being submitted more often also in Administration Bonds. I had to have a lot of "double takes" to find where the over lap between pages 3 and for occurs it is actually in line 41 after "deceased[es]" .....XX...... w[hi]ch I hope that's clear, as Liz appears to have left out "which" and the following line. (That happened last time so I think her view is chopping the final line of the image.) Yes page 4 and 5 go together. Hopefully Matt or Eusebeia will proveide you with a much better translation of the Latin than I am likely to! Good luck with the encoding! All the best, Martyn ________________________________ Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.

Hi, I have now posted Martyn's transcription of Thomas Cromplehere's will on his web page. The link to Thomas' page is: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/getperson.php?personID=I0888&tree=Walsh and the direct link to a scanned image of Thomas' will and Martyn's transcription is: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=735&medialinkID=1480 (This is page 12 in the Crumpler2.pdf file for those of you who are keeping track.) Please let me know if there are corrections, changes, alterations, amplifications, etc. --- and I will gladly make them. Martyn has also sent me the transcriptions for further sections of Richard Crumpler's probate document. I've managed to figure out how to get rid of the large blank space at the top of this document, and the transcription is now starting to appear at: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=729 Because of the necessity to use a table (a limitation of HTML code) this transcription needs to be hand coded. Not a problem for me, but a little slow. I will work on getting it completed tonight. I've received more transcriptions from Martyn which I'll then post, and a couple of e-mail messages with suggested corrections which I will handle asap, but (realistically) probably tomorrow. I'll post messages here as each stage is completed. Thank you again for all of your help. Kind regards, Craig Craig W. Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd. * Colletts Green * Worcester * WR2 4RY ******************************************************* 01905-830-380 (In USA 888-880-1531) 07833 433 871 ******************************************************* Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.

Hi Craig, I don't know about everyone else, but to me it would be easier if all the various pieces of the transcription were posted in one place for now, with pdf page numbers as headings. But keep the transcription separate from the original pdf document. Then when we are all done, the various pieces of the transciption can be separated out and posted where you want them. It will be much easier, I think, to check that we have it all, including the bits and pieces of Latin. Cheers, Liz -----Original Message----- From: Craig Walsh [mailto:craig@hmdp.com] Sent: Monday, 2 March 2009 9:33 AM To: Elizabeth Agar Cc: old-english@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [OEL] Mary Crumpler --- The Two Are Now Merged Hi, Liz --- The 159 - 1595 typo is now corrected --- thanks. Even I'm a bit confused about the various documents --- my apologies. I wanted to upload the documents in a high-resolution format so y'all would have the maximum possible clarity when reading them. Also, until the documents are transcribed, I don't really know where they should go on the www.lordoflucies.com website. (This is evidenced by the fact that even after transcription I was still confused about Mary.) I could add the transcriptions to the PDF document if that would be helpful, and re-post on the internet. Or leave the one that's posted as-is, and post another "after" version. The pages on the PDF are all numbered, but, in retrospect, perhaps I should have put labels on each page. I realized after creating the PDF that three of the pages were the top, middle, and bottom of Richard Crumpler's inventory. I can also add links to each page on the PDF --- linking each page back to the page on the www.lordoflucies.com website where the document and the transcription have been added. Would that be helpful? I am glad to cooperate and assist in whatever way that I can to make this as easy as possible. Suggestions welcome, and I will do my best to implement straight away. Kind regards, Craig Craig W Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd * Whitecroft * Colletts Green * Worcester WR2 4RY ***************************************************************** t 01905 830 380 m 07833 433 871 In the United States: 888-880-1531 See our online photo gallery at www.bark.ch Stock imagery available at www.hmdp.net ***************************************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Agar [mailto:emagar@hotkey.net.au] Sent: 01 March 2009 19:49 To: Craig Walsh Subject: RE: [OEL] Mary Crumpler --- The Two Are Now Merged Craig, there is an obvious typo in page 11 (now page 2 of Mary's album, I think). The year should be 1595, not 159. Liz PS Does everyone on the list know that this is page 11 of the 2nd pdf document? I admit to getting confused myself now as to where everything is. Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.

<<My first post and I confess that I don't know if this troublesome contracted word is English or a Latin legal phrase. It is written Juterrie and means something like allegation or claim or statement. The document is in English.>> Hello Peter, if it's something to do with litigation then my guess would be Interr[ogator]ie, but it's impossible to do more than guess without more context. Could you tell us the sentence it is found in, and say something about the document which contains it (date and description at least)? Matt Tompkins

Any chance of a scan? Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Taylor" <bristolloggerheads@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <OLD-ENGLISH@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:22 PM Subject: [OEL] 1605 Star Chamber Case > Hi, > > > > My first post and I confess that I don't know if this troublesome > contracted > word is English or a Latin legal phrase. > > > > It is written Juterrie and means something like allegation or claim or > statement. The document is in English. > > > > Any ideas?, > > > > Peter > > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date: 03/01/09 17:46:00

Ooops!! Yes there is that Latin probate bit. You are welcome to it martyn! Liz -----Original Message----- From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Agar Sent: Sunday, 1 March 2009 11:02 PM To: 'mjcl'; 'old-english@rootsweb.com'; 'Craig Walsh' Subject: Re: [OEL] Crumpler Wills etc. Hi Martyn, Aren't you doing the even numbers?? I've done Page 7, 9, 11, 13. Just checking them. I've sent Craig page 3. I can't work out page 5 at all!! For future ref: After a quick look at the documents at http://www.crumpler-family.com/Crumpler2.pdf , it appears that pages 16 -19 contain the original of William Crumpleher's will of 1615. So we don't necessarily need a new transcription, but a comparison with the will already done. Cheers, Liz -----Original Message----- From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of mjcl Sent: Sunday, 1 March 2009 10:56 PM To: old-english@rootsweb.com; Craig Walsh Subject: [OEL] Crumpler Wills etc. If no one else is doing it, I have started on the Probate Account on Page 7 All the best, Martyn ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Martyn, Aren't you doing the even numbers?? I've done Page 7, 9, 11, 13. Just checking them. I've sent Craig page 3. I can't work out page 5 at all!! For future ref: After a quick look at the documents at http://www.crumpler-family.com/Crumpler2.pdf , it appears that pages 16 -19 contain the original of William Crumpleher's will of 1615. So we don't necessarily need a new transcription, but a comparison with the will already done. Cheers, Liz -----Original Message----- From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of mjcl Sent: Sunday, 1 March 2009 10:56 PM To: old-english@rootsweb.com; Craig Walsh Subject: [OEL] Crumpler Wills etc. If no one else is doing it, I have started on the Probate Account on Page 7 All the best, Martyn ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, My first post and I confess that I don't know if this troublesome contracted word is English or a Latin legal phrase. It is written Juterrie and means something like allegation or claim or statement. The document is in English. Any ideas?, Peter

Hello Peter, Could it be an abbreviated form of "interrogatory" - a question posed in a formal legal context? Normally used in church courts, I think. What kind of document did you find it in and what date? Best wishes, Margaret McG In a message dated 01/03/2009 21:21:34 GMT Standard Time, bristolloggerheads@blueyonder.co.uk writes: Hi, My first post and I confess that I don't know if this troublesome contracted word is English or a Latin legal phrase. It is written Juterrie and means something like allegation or claim or statement. The document is in English. Any ideas?, Peter

Hi, Liz --- The 159 - 1595 typo is now corrected --- thanks. Even I'm a bit confused about the various documents --- my apologies. I wanted to upload the documents in a high-resolution format so y'all would have the maximum possible clarity when reading them. Also, until the documents are transcribed, I don't really know where they should go on the www.lordoflucies.com website. (This is evidenced by the fact that even after transcription I was still confused about Mary.) I could add the transcriptions to the PDF document if that would be helpful, and re-post on the internet. Or leave the one that's posted as-is, and post another "after" version. The pages on the PDF are all numbered, but, in retrospect, perhaps I should have put labels on each page. I realized after creating the PDF that three of the pages were the top, middle, and bottom of Richard Crumpler's inventory. I can also add links to each page on the PDF --- linking each page back to the page on the www.lordoflucies.com website where the document and the transcription have been added. Would that be helpful? I am glad to cooperate and assist in whatever way that I can to make this as easy as possible. Suggestions welcome, and I will do my best to implement straight away. Kind regards, Craig Craig W Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd * Whitecroft * Colletts Green * Worcester WR2 4RY ***************************************************************** t 01905 830 380 m 07833 433 871 In the United States: 888-880-1531 See our online photo gallery at www.bark.ch Stock imagery available at www.hmdp.net ***************************************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Agar [mailto:emagar@hotkey.net.au] Sent: 01 March 2009 19:49 To: Craig Walsh Subject: RE: [OEL] Mary Crumpler --- The Two Are Now Merged Craig, there is an obvious typo in page 11 (now page 2 of Mary's album, I think). The year should be 1595, not 159. Liz PS Does everyone on the list know that this is page 11 of the 2nd pdf document? I admit to getting confused myself now as to where everything is. Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.

<<Today a will is not valid for many reasons, of which one is failure to name an executor. So while there is a will it is not a legally realised one, and so in legal terms the testator has died "intestate" and letters of administration, with a will attached (and the terms of which must be met) are granted instead of probate of the will itself. I am not sure that nowadays the minority of the executor would prove a bar to the vaidity of the will - just that the minor would have to have someone to act for them. So either this was different at the time, or perhaps the other will was not "legal" for some other of the many reasons - not signed, not properly witnessed, not dated...?>> Hello Polly, Yes, that's pretty much what I suppose must be the case here. But back in the late 16C the formalities required for a valid will were few compared to today, and I think many other probate courts of the period would have accepted these two Crumpler wills. They might have issued letters of administration with will annexed, rather than probate, but I'm not sure they would have described making a will appointing an underage executor as dying intestate - but then again, perhaps that was the practice of the Dean of Salisbury's peculiar. Matt

Hi Matt Today a will is not valid for many reasons, of which one is failure to name an executor. So while there is a will it is not a legally realised one, and so in legal terms the testator has died "intestate" and letters of administration, with a will attached (and the terms of which must be met) are granted instead of probate of the will itself. I am not sure that nowadays the minority of the executor would prove a bar to the vaidity of the will - just that the minor would have to have someone to act for them. So either this was different at the time, or perhaps the other will was not "legal" for some other of the many reasons - not signed, not properly witnessed, not dated...? Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tompkins, M.L.L." <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk> Cc: <old-english@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 11:27 AM Subject: [OEL] Mary Crumpler 1595, ab intesta' deceden' I see the original of the same will appears again, on page 11. This time the probate clause says (in translation): 19th November 1595 administration was granted to Richard Michel Thomas Strangwaies Hubert Galton and John Galton the overseers and guardians of Thomas Crumplehere the son and executor etc during his minority etc in the person of John Symons, notary, public sworn etc and they have to account at Michaelmas next On the question of 'ab intestat' deceden' - I ought to explain that what is baffling is that its obvious meaning ('dying intestate') doesn't fit the context - it appears in relation to both Richard and Mary Crumpler, who both clearly did leave wills. Eve has suggested, in relation to Richard's will, that it may be something to do with the fact that he didn't appoint an executor (though failure to name a will does not constitute intestacy, and one would have to re-interpret the words to produce a different meaning). Mary did nominate an executor, however - but he was under age, and so administration has again been granted to individuals not explicitly appointed as executors in the will. So I think Eve is on the right lines, and the use of 'ab intestat' deceden' must be somehow a consequence of the will either not nominating an executor, or nominating an executor who cannot act (which is why letters of administration were granted, rather than probate - these are letters of administration with will annexed) - but the problem remains that this is not intestacy, so how should the phrase be interpreted? Perhaps the explanation is just that in the Dean of Sarum's peculiar court at this time leaving a will which didn't nominate an executor who could act was indeed regarded as intestacy. Matt ________________________________________ From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tompkins, M.L.L. [mllt1@leicester.ac.uk] Sent: 28 February 2009 22:58 Cc: old-english@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] The Crumpler Wills This is Mary, wife of Richard Crumplehere, whose 1594/5 will we transcribed last weekend. I think she didn't say her husband is William Crumplehere - rather she gave him her husband's best coat (the sentence is 'I geve to W[illia]m Crumplehere my husband_ beste coate' and I think the strong tail at the end of 'husband', though it definitely doesn't loop, nevertheless indicates a gentival 'es', making it 'I give to William Crumplehere my husband's best coat.' The probate entry says (translated): The 19th day of the month of November AD 1595 was granted and [sic] administration of all and singular the goods rights and credits of Mary Crumplehere deceased late while she lived parishioner of Winterborne Kingeston in the peculiar jurisdiction of the Dean of Sarum 'ab intestas deceden' to Richard Michell Thomas Strangwayes Hubert Galton and John Galton overseers and guardians of Thomas Crumplehere during his minority in the person of John Symons, sworn well and faithfully to administer and to pay the debts and also to exhibit an inventory and to render an account etc Saving the right of anybody I'm still baffled by the phrase " ab intestas deceden' ". I think the 'et' in the second line was intended to be followed (as in the probate endorsement of the same date on her husband's original will) by 'littere tutele' Matt ________________________________________ From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Craig Walsh [craig@hmdp.com] Sent: 28 February 2009 16:31 To: mjcl Cc: davidmichael_uk@yahoo.co.uk; old-english@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] The Crumpler Wills Hi, Martyn --- Thank you! I've posted the document and your transcription at: http://www.lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=721&medialinkID=1462 I confess to being at a loss as to who this Mary might be. She died in 1595, and her will indicates her husband was William and her son was Thomas. "Our" William --- with the 1614 will y'all so kindly helped me translate last week --- was married, at least at the time of his death, to Edith: http://www.lordoflucies.com/tng/getperson.php?personID=I0840&tree=Walsh And Edith's "lawful and natural son" was John, born (we believe) between 1590 and 1610. So if Edith was married to "our" William in this period, Mary couldn't have been married to him (her death was 1595). William's father, Thomas, had other children who's first names we don't know: http://www.lordoflucies.com/tng/getperson.php?personID=I0888&tree=Walsh Perhaps another William? Seems strange and unlikely. A project for the near future is to try to find the parish records for this period, if they still exist, and try to decipher how these people connected to one another. Please let me know if you have corrections, changes, etc., to the transcription now posted on the website. Yes, this is a great list with incredibly helpful folks. Thanks again. Kind regards, Craig Craig W Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd * Whitecroft * Colletts Green * Worcester WR2 4RY ***************************************************************** t 01905 830 380 m 07833 433 871 In the United States: 888-880-1531 See our online photo gallery at www.bark.ch Stock imagery available at www.hmdp.net ***************************************************************** From: mjcl [mailto:mjcl111@googlemail.com] Sent: 28 February 2009 15:37 To: Craig Walsh Subject: Re: [OEL] The Crumpler Wills Hi Craig, I have attached my first attempt ..... Mary Crumplehere's will of July 1595. You probably saw my comments to Liz Agar. So she should be posting her own efforts as I suggested. I'm not going to bulldoze through this one and will do alternate documents as I suggested to her. I would ask that you post my effort for all to see as you did Eusebeia's. That way other learn and I get my errors corrected!!. By now you have found out what a great bunch are on this list! And I'm sure that Judith Werner, who looks after the list. will be over the moon as this was the objective of the list when set up! All the best, Martyn Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system. ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If no one else is doing it, I have started on the Probate Account on Page 7 All the best, Martyn

<<(though failure to name a will does not constitute intestacy>> I meant, failure to name *an executor* does not ... Matt

I see the original of the same will appears again, on page 11. This time the probate clause says (in translation): 19th November 1595 administration was granted to Richard Michel Thomas Strangwaies Hubert Galton and John Galton the overseers and guardians of Thomas Crumplehere the son and executor etc during his minority etc in the person of John Symons, notary, public sworn etc and they have to account at Michaelmas next On the question of 'ab intestat' deceden' - I ought to explain that what is baffling is that its obvious meaning ('dying intestate') doesn't fit the context - it appears in relation to both Richard and Mary Crumpler, who both clearly did leave wills. Eve has suggested, in relation to Richard's will, that it may be something to do with the fact that he didn't appoint an executor (though failure to name a will does not constitute intestacy, and one would have to re-interpret the words to produce a different meaning). Mary did nominate an executor, however - but he was under age, and so administration has again been granted to individuals not explicitly appointed as executors in the will. So I think Eve is on the right lines, and the use of 'ab intestat' deceden' must be somehow a consequence of the will either not nominating an executor, or nominating an executor who cannot act (which is why letters of administration were granted, rather than probate - these are letters of administration with will annexed) - but the problem remains that this is not intestacy, so how should the phrase be interpreted? Perhaps the explanation is just that in the Dean of Sarum's peculiar court at this time leaving a will which didn't nominate an executor who could act was indeed regarded as intestacy. Matt ________________________________________ From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tompkins, M.L.L. [mllt1@leicester.ac.uk] Sent: 28 February 2009 22:58 Cc: old-english@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] The Crumpler Wills This is Mary, wife of Richard Crumplehere, whose 1594/5 will we transcribed last weekend. I think she didn't say her husband is William Crumplehere - rather she gave him her husband's best coat (the sentence is 'I geve to W[illia]m Crumplehere my husband_ beste coate' and I think the strong tail at the end of 'husband', though it definitely doesn't loop, nevertheless indicates a gentival 'es', making it 'I give to William Crumplehere my husband's best coat.' The probate entry says (translated): The 19th day of the month of November AD 1595 was granted and [sic] administration of all and singular the goods rights and credits of Mary Crumplehere deceased late while she lived parishioner of Winterborne Kingeston in the peculiar jurisdiction of the Dean of Sarum 'ab intestas deceden' to Richard Michell Thomas Strangwayes Hubert Galton and John Galton overseers and guardians of Thomas Crumplehere during his minority in the person of John Symons, sworn well and faithfully to administer and to pay the debts and also to exhibit an inventory and to render an account etc Saving the right of anybody I'm still baffled by the phrase " ab intestas deceden' ". I think the 'et' in the second line was intended to be followed (as in the probate endorsement of the same date on her husband's original will) by 'littere tutele' Matt ________________________________________ From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Craig Walsh [craig@hmdp.com] Sent: 28 February 2009 16:31 To: mjcl Cc: davidmichael_uk@yahoo.co.uk; old-english@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] The Crumpler Wills Hi, Martyn --- Thank you! I've posted the document and your transcription at: http://www.lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=721&medialinkID=1462 I confess to being at a loss as to who this Mary might be. She died in 1595, and her will indicates her husband was William and her son was Thomas. "Our" William --- with the 1614 will y'all so kindly helped me translate last week --- was married, at least at the time of his death, to Edith: http://www.lordoflucies.com/tng/getperson.php?personID=I0840&tree=Walsh And Edith's "lawful and natural son" was John, born (we believe) between 1590 and 1610. So if Edith was married to "our" William in this period, Mary couldn't have been married to him (her death was 1595). William's father, Thomas, had other children who's first names we don't know: http://www.lordoflucies.com/tng/getperson.php?personID=I0888&tree=Walsh Perhaps another William? Seems strange and unlikely. A project for the near future is to try to find the parish records for this period, if they still exist, and try to decipher how these people connected to one another. Please let me know if you have corrections, changes, etc., to the transcription now posted on the website. Yes, this is a great list with incredibly helpful folks. Thanks again. Kind regards, Craig Craig W Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd * Whitecroft * Colletts Green * Worcester WR2 4RY ***************************************************************** t 01905 830 380 m 07833 433 871 In the United States: 888-880-1531 See our online photo gallery at www.bark.ch Stock imagery available at www.hmdp.net ***************************************************************** From: mjcl [mailto:mjcl111@googlemail.com] Sent: 28 February 2009 15:37 To: Craig Walsh Subject: Re: [OEL] The Crumpler Wills Hi Craig, I have attached my first attempt ..... Mary Crumplehere's will of July 1595. You probably saw my comments to Liz Agar. So she should be posting her own efforts as I suggested. I'm not going to bulldoze through this one and will do alternate documents as I suggested to her. I would ask that you post my effort for all to see as you did Eusebeia's. That way other learn and I get my errors corrected!!. By now you have found out what a great bunch are on this list! And I'm sure that Judith Werner, who looks after the list. will be over the moon as this was the objective of the list when set up! All the best, Martyn Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system. ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, Robert --- Thanks for the information about the location of the Winterborne Kingston parish records. It's under 90 miles to Trowbridge from our farm in sunny Worcestershire. And it's not far from Bath --- I love the Pump Room there. So a trip to Trowbridge will be put in the diary, and hopefully these records can help me to unravel the various Crumpler strands. Kind regards, Craig Craig W Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd * Whitecroft * Colletts Green * Worcester WR2 4RY ***************************************************************** t 01905 830 380 m 07833 433 871 In the United States: 888-880-1531 See our online photo gallery at www.bark.ch Stock imagery available at www.hmdp.net ***************************************************************** Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.

Hi, Robert --- Thanks for your message. I'd found the excellent Dorset Online Parish Clerk website some time ago: http://www.opcdorset.com/ The page for Winterborne Kingston is located at: http://www.opcdorset.com/WinterborneFiles/W.Kingston/WinterborneKingston.htm The online parish clerk is Jill Morley. I contacted her last Sunday, using the link on the web page. I hope to hear from her sometime soon. The Crumpler family seemed to come from different parishes in Dorset, and some of the other parishes have (online) information that goes back quite far. I've also found, at Ancestry.co.uk, a scanned copy of a 1907 book with a complete transcription of the parish records from Almer, Dorset. I updated many of the Crumpler web pages with information from that book yesterday, or double-checked the information I already had. It starts to get gnarly with the different Daniel Crumplers, all seemingly born at about the same time! There's also a Crumpler list on Rootsweb, but not many participants. At one time there was a Crumpler.org website where various Crumpler researchers --- in the UK, Australia, and the States --- pooled their resources. But something seems to have happened to the site, and it's vanished from the internet. I have an archival copy, but don't want to post it on the internet as it's not my property. My efforts to find the original webmasters of the crumpler.org website have been dead ends. Kind regards, Craig Craig W Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd * Whitecroft * Colletts Green * Worcester WR2 4RY ***************************************************************** t 01905 830 380 m 07833 433 871 In the United States: 888-880-1531 See our online photo gallery at www.bark.ch Stock imagery available at www.hmdp.net ***************************************************************** Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.

Hi -- Earlier I'd misunderstood that Mary was the widow of Richard Crumpler --- in my eagerness, I'd misread a sentence in the will. Matt has pointed out, "This is Mary, wife of Richard Crumplehere, whose 1594/5 will we transcribed last weekend. I think she didn't say her husband is William Crumplehere - rather she gave him her husband's best coat (the sentence is 'I geve to W[illia]m Crumplehere my husband_ beste coate' and I think the strong tail at the end of 'husband', though it definitely doesn't loop, nevertheless indicates a gentival 'es', making it 'I give to William Crumplehere my husband's best coat.'" I'd created a separate Mary on our website: I've now merged the two Mary webpages into a single page: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/getperson.php?personID=I513983931&tree=Walsh The will of Mary Crumpler is attached to this page, or the direct link is: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=721&medialinkID=1462 The inventory of Mary Crumpler is in what's called an album (containing, so far, pages 1, 3, and 5). It's linked to Mary's page (first URL above), or the direct link is: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showalbum.php?albumID=8 Sorry that my confusion has resulted in a few changes in the web links. I hope I have it straight now. Glad there wasn't another Mary to confuse me! Kind regards, Craig Craig W Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd * Whitecroft * Colletts Green * Worcester WR2 4RY ***************************************************************** t 01905 830 380 m 07833 433 871 In the United States: 888-880-1531 See our online photo gallery at www.bark.ch Stock imagery available at www.hmdp.net ***************************************************************** Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.

Hi, Liz --- Thank you for the transcriptions of three of the pages of Mary Crumpler's inventory. (I'm not really sure what to actually call it --- suggestions welcome.) I've uploaded the three pages, have added your transcriptions, and have then grouped the three pages together into an album linked to Mary's page on our website. The album is located here: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showalbum.php?albumID=8 If you then click on the links for any of the three pages, you'll see your transcriptions. As always, please let me know if there are any changes, alterations, updates, etc., and I will take care of them ASAP. Can I ask a "big picture" question? By modern standards, it seems quite strange to have such a formal will --- complete with Latin clauses and a small army of executors --- when the items being bequeathed seem so modest: working petticoats, dresses, etc. Before seeing these documents, I imagined that only a small percentage of the people alive in the late 1500's and early 1600's would have had a will. Was it common for folks of relatively modest means to have such elaborate wills? Or, by the standards of the day, were these ancestors quite prosperous? Thank you again for your assistance. Kind regards, Craig Craig W Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd * Whitecroft * Colletts Green * Worcester WR2 4RY ***************************************************************** t 01905 830 380 m 07833 433 871 In the United States: 888-880-1531 See our online photo gallery at www.bark.ch Stock imagery available at www.hmdp.net ***************************************************************** Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.