Hi Craig, If the web site hasn't changed since I last looked, the last document referenced in the Richard and Mary Crumplehere Album at http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showalbum.php?albumID=8 or directly at http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=732&albumlinkID=29 is the Original of Mary Crumplehere's Will of 1595. It is not an Inventory. This was transcribed from page 11 of the 19 page pdf document. There were typos in my original attempt and also several corrections made by Eusebeia, for which I thank her. Corrections are included as follows: 2. 1595 not 159 3. in not int 4. remembraunce not remembtaunce 7. soule not spule 14. remove [?] after duke 14. frice not frise 15. buggis not briggis 16. punginto[u]on not p[?] 18. Keyser not keyster 19. chepma[n] not chepma[?] 20. Marye not marye 27. 'M[aste]r Powell' not 'Mr y Cowell' 31. M[aste]r not Mr 32. M[aste]r not Mr 35. thomas cru[m]plehere not a complete mental aberration! 40. ' M[aste]r Powell' not 'Mr y Cowell' 1. In dei no[min]e amen, the xvth of July, in the yere of o[ur] 2. Lorde god 1595. I marie cru[m]plehere of the parishe 3. of Winterbo[u]rne Kingstone in the countie of Dorset, 4. wydowe, Sick in bodye, but p[er]fect of remembraunce / 5. thanks be to god. doe make my last will & testament / 6. in manner and form followinge. First I bequethe my 7. soule into the hand[es] of god, the maker of heaven / 8. and earth. And by the sheddinge of Jesus christ bloude / 9. I doe verely beleve, that all my sinnes, and offences / 10. be forgiven, and washed awaye, and my bodie I will / 11. to be buried at the discretion of my executor / 12. Imprimus I give to Will[ia]m cru[m]plehere my husband['s?] 13. best cote and shirt / 14. Item I give to duke a frice [Note 1] cote & a paire of briggis / 15. Item to my sist[er] tamsey buggis my best petticott & waskett / 16. Item to punginto[u]n an olde cloke / 17. Item to maude Audeley________________vjd 18. Item to peter Keyser eight pounde of woll / 19. Item to ydeth chepma[n]_________ijs vjd 20. Item. to marye cru[m]plehere,______ijs vjd 21. Item. to my sister Joan, xxs, and my best coffer/ 22. Item to my sist[er] Catherine a black frice gowne / 23. and my workinge day petticott / 24. Item more to my sister Joan all the rest of myne 25. apparell / 36. It[e]m. to mary clerke________xijd / 27. It[e]m to M[aste]r Powell________xijd / 28. It[e]m. to my sonne thomas, all the residue of my / 29. goods and cattle whom I make my sole executor / 30. of this my last will and testament / finallye / 31. I doe ordayne, and appoint, M[aste]r Richard mychell / 32. M[aste]r thomas strangwaies, Hubbert galton, and / 33. John galton to be my overseers, and to take the / 34. benefitt of the goods and to imploy it to the 35.. use of my son thomas cru[m]plehere/: / In Wittnes 36. Whereof I have called these my neighbo[u]rs / 37. whose names are under written.. // 38. Marster Richarde Mychell 39. Mystres Mychell 40. M[aste]r Powell Note 1: frice = frieze = rough heavy woollen cloth. [again some Latin here]

A transcription of a manuscript of 1583 published in the Transactions of the Shroshire Arch. & Nat. Hist. Soc. in 1880 reads: ...and ye sayd Robart by reasoon of the infect'on dieed there also (in London), who was of greate estimac'on wth. the queenes mti. and the nobilytie because he coulde speacke perfectly soondry forrayne langags by reason of hys longe absence in his youthe owt of England in forrayne coontreys... What could be "the queenes mti."? It is printed with the last two letters as superscripts and no final dot. Thank you, Alejandro Milberg Boston, Mass. **************Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession. (http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare00000002)

Craig, Could you do me a big favour please. It would be extremely helpful if you could provide in one message a summary of each of the original page numbers from the pdf document with the URLs where the transcriptions have been placed. Thank you, Liz

Good morning --- I'm off to Torquay for the day. Visiting my wife's elderly aunt for her birthday. I ** think ** the location of the documents has now settled down on the website. I will do a single message that provides an index from each page of the two PDF files (Crumpler.pdf and Crumpler2.pdf) to the www.lordoflucies.com website. I will also make the changes in Liz' e-mail entitled, "Corrections to Transcript of Page 11, Mary's Original Will, and to Web Site." Sorry for all of the page moves. This was a work-in-progress, and some of that involved (and still involves) my trying to understand what these documents are, whose web pages they belong to, and what the documents should be called. (And I ran into some technological limitations along the way, trying to use a table as a description of an image.) Kind regards, Craig Craig W. Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd. * Colletts Green * Worcester * WR2 4RY ******************************************************* 01905-830-380 (In USA 888-880-1531) 07833 433 871 ******************************************************* Sent from my MacBook ________________________________ Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.

Dear Barbara In the larger suburbs that were growing up around London, houses were in multiple occupancy with a landlord living in the larger number of usually groundfloor rooms. It was noted in Mayhew's book on London Labour and the London Poor that a family would start off in a small room and gradually move between rooms, houses and streets as the family grew in size and numbers. It can be interesting to follow families between the 1851 and 61 censuses. When it comes to identifying streets in the present day, as Barbara has mentioned, a number of houses and, in some cases, whole streets have been demolished. In London just after WW2, clearing bomb sites and demolishing slum property was undertaken where whole streets not only vanished but were replaced with green spaces. In other parts, large blocks of flats were erected. This is where street maps come in handy and there is a publication for London called A Victorian A-Z, based on two sets of maps for the period. They are very interesting and are a great help with other sources such as the census. I woud certainly recommend looking at contemporary maps if you can. I think you will find them a great help. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Walker" <msbwalker@tiscali.co.uk> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] 1851 census > Hi > > I've just been working with this interesting question. One further > complication to consider is the fact that a number of old buildings may > have > ceased to exist between the early censuses and others arrive especially if > there was a marked change in the economy like the arrival of the railways > for example. Also of course, as families changed size one building could > have been divided into two to accomodate this and then revert to one > later. > What I discovered, by carefully noting the family name patterns and > structures across 1841 - 1871 for the streets I was researching, is that > the > enumerator 'walked round' one way for the first two censuses and then > reversed the route for the third. Fortunately there were enough > identifiable > 'fixed' buildings - pubs as it happens - although they too changed names > according to changes in the economy with, for example the Miners Arms > being > replaced with the Skinners Arms and sometimes the inns were only > identifiable by the occupation of the resident being recorded as > 'Innkeeper'. I look forward to hearing what others say about this subject > because in a rural village with no fixed buildings and varying periods of > expansion it is difficult as there isn't always a handy static limekiln or > grist mill. > > Best wishes > Barbara > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Talbot" <richard.talbot88@btinternet.com> > To: <> > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 12:48 PM > Subject: [OEL] 1851 census > > >> This was taken on the 31st March 1851. Schedules were issued then the >> enumerator transfer this information into the lists as we have them >> today. >> The question is, would they have been sorted before that listing in as >> much that one property would be listed after each other as they appeared >> in the street, or could then have been mixed up and therefore not follow >> in strict order? >> In the area of study no street names are identified only the general >> area. >> >> In the 1841 census there is a preamble as to the way the enumerator >> walked >> but there is no such entry for the 1851 I have. >> >> I have identified one listing to a property, could I assume that the next >> entry in the census return would be that of the property next door, or >> could it have been one further down the street. >> >> Thanks for a clear indication to this question. >> >> Richard >> Stoke-on-Trent >> >> >> ==================================== >> WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ >> ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date: 03/01/09 17:46:00

Hi I've just been working with this interesting question. One further complication to consider is the fact that a number of old buildings may have ceased to exist between the early censuses and others arrive especially if there was a marked change in the economy like the arrival of the railways for example. Also of course, as families changed size one building could have been divided into two to accomodate this and then revert to one later. What I discovered, by carefully noting the family name patterns and structures across 1841 - 1871 for the streets I was researching, is that the enumerator 'walked round' one way for the first two censuses and then reversed the route for the third. Fortunately there were enough identifiable 'fixed' buildings - pubs as it happens - although they too changed names according to changes in the economy with, for example the Miners Arms being replaced with the Skinners Arms and sometimes the inns were only identifiable by the occupation of the resident being recorded as 'Innkeeper'. I look forward to hearing what others say about this subject because in a rural village with no fixed buildings and varying periods of expansion it is difficult as there isn't always a handy static limekiln or grist mill. Best wishes Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Talbot" <richard.talbot88@btinternet.com> To: <> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 12:48 PM Subject: [OEL] 1851 census > This was taken on the 31st March 1851. Schedules were issued then the > enumerator transfer this information into the lists as we have them today. > The question is, would they have been sorted before that listing in as > much that one property would be listed after each other as they appeared > in the street, or could then have been mixed up and therefore not follow > in strict order? > In the area of study no street names are identified only the general area. > > In the 1841 census there is a preamble as to the way the enumerator walked > but there is no such entry for the 1851 I have. > > I have identified one listing to a property, could I assume that the next > entry in the census return would be that of the property next door, or > could it have been one further down the street. > > Thanks for a clear indication to this question. > > Richard > Stoke-on-Trent > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Craig, I think that particular page works as you are able to place the transcription alongside the original document. Of course, as I've said before, it's your website and ultimately you're the one who has the say in its design! All the best, Martyn On 03/03/2009, Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com> wrote: > > Hi, Martyn --- > > > > Good the way it is? No further tinkering needed? > > > > Glad to tinker --- and glad to stop tinkering. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Craig > > > > *Craig W Walsh* > > *Lucies Farm Ltd * Whitecroft * Colletts Green * Worcester WR2 4RY* > > ******************************************************************* > > *t 01905 830 380 m 07833 433 871* > > * In the United States: 888-880-1531* > > * See our online photo gallery at www.bark.ch* > > * Stock imagery available at www.hmdp.net* > > ******************************************************************* > > > > ------------------------------ > Privacy and Confidentiality Notice > This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or > organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and > confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must > not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have > received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and > delete it and any attached files from your system. >

Hi Craig, Yes that looks better. All the best, Martyn On 03/03/2009, Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com> wrote: > > Hi, Martyn --- > > Great idea --- thanks. > > I have tried to re-order the pages in the “album” as you’ve suggested. The > album is at: > > http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showalbum.php?albumID=8 > > The page with the complicated table (called Mary Crumpler - Will Inventory > - 1597 - Page 2) is still giving me problems. I’m having a hard time moving > it up/down in the list of documents in the album. I’ll continue to work on > this. > > In the meantime, in trying to fix the problem, I think I’ve made this page > display a little better on screen --- please see: > > http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=729&albumlinkID=35 > > I will find a way to fix the order of the pages. Can you please take a > moment to look at the current order of the pages and please let me know what > (if anything) needs to be moved, and moved where. > > Thanks. > > Kind regards, > > Craig > * > > Craig W. Walsh > Lucies Farm Ltd. * Colletts Green * Worcester * WR2 4RY > ******************************************************* > 01905-830-380 (In USA 888-880-1531) 07833 433 871 > ******************************************************* > **Sent from my MacBook > * > > > ------------------------------ > *From: *mjcl <mjcl111@googlemail.com> > *Date: *Tue, 3 Mar 2009 07:08:37 -0500 > *To: *Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com> > *Cc: *"Tompkins, M.L.L." <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk>, < > old-english@rootsweb.com> > *Subject: *Re: William Crumpelhere > > Hi Craig, > > I've had a look at what you've posted. Pages 1 & 2 are the Probate > Account, 3 the Inventory and 4-7 the various Wills. Can I suggest that it > might perhaps be better to place the wills at the start then the inventory > followed by the probate account as this would be the chronologically correct > order. Of course that is down to you and your preferences. > > All the best, > > Martyn > > ------------------------------ > Privacy and Confidentiality Notice > This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or > organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and > confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must > not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have > received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and > delete it and any attached files from your system. >

This was taken on the 31st March 1851. Schedules were issued then the enumerator transfer this information into the lists as we have them today. The question is, would they have been sorted before that listing in as much that one property would be listed after each other as they appeared in the street, or could then have been mixed up and therefore not follow in strict order? In the area of study no street names are identified only the general area. In the 1841 census there is a preamble as to the way the enumerator walked but there is no such entry for the 1851 I have. I have identified one listing to a property, could I assume that the next entry in the census return would be that of the property next door, or could it have been one further down the street. Thanks for a clear indication to this question. Richard Stoke-on-Trent

Hi Craig, I've had a look at what you've posted. Pages 1 & 2 are the Probate Account, 3 the Inventory and 4-7 the various Wills. Can I suggest that it might perhaps be better to place the wills at the start then the inventory followed by the probate account as this would be the chronologically correct order. Of course that is down to you and your preferences. All the best, Martyn On 03/03/2009, Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com> wrote: > > Hi, Matt and Martyn --- > > Thank you for the clarification on the various images and how they fit > together. > > I hadn’t appreciated, until now, that pages 7 and 8 in the Crumper2.pdf > were the top and bottom of the same page. My apologies. > > I have now combined the two into a single document using Photoshop, and > have also combined the transcriptions. > > Page 7 and 8 from the PDF are now located at: > > http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=730&albumlinkID=27 > > (I’ve deleted the web page of what was page 8 in the PDF file.) > > I’ve also tried to make things less confusing --- hopefully --- by grouping > the documents into a single “album,” which I’ve linked to Richard and Mary > (Marie’s) pages on the website: > > http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showalbum.php?albumID=8 > > This album contains the various images and transcriptions that relate to > Richard and Marie (Mary) --- I’m sorry I didn’t think of doing this before, > as may have saved much confusion. > > If there’s anything that can be changed in the album (page names, order of > pages, etc.) please let me know ---- this is easy to do. > > Thanks for the explanation about original and register copies of wills. > Makes sense to me now. > > Here’s the original copy: > > http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=711&medialinkID=1447 > > And the register copy: > > http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=710&medialinkID=1446 > > Both are in the “album,” mentioned above. > > Kind regards, > > Craig > * > > Craig W. Walsh > Lucies Farm Ltd. * Colletts Green * Worcester * WR2 4RY > ******************************************************* > 01905-830-380 (In USA 888-880-1531) 07833 433 871 > ******************************************************* > **Sent from my MacBook > * > > > ------------------------------ > *From: *mjcl <mjcl111@googlemail.com> > *Date: *Tue, 3 Mar 2009 03:48:18 -0500 > *To: *"Tompkins, M.L.L." <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk> > *Cc: *Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com> > *Subject: *Re: William Crumpelhere > > Hi Matt, > > Thank you for resolving that ..... I was trying to examine it last night > following you suggesting it. Unfortunately my lap top crashed and as it was > late so I left it at that! > > And thankyou for answering the question re the will. Obviously we had the > Register Copy and two other copies. > > All the best Martyn > > > On 03/03/2009, *Tompkins, M.L.L.* <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk> wrote: > > <<Do you have any idea why there are several copies of William's will? In > a day long before the invention of the photocopier, I'd have thought there > would have only been one copy. Which of these (if any) is the "original" > will, signed by William before his death?>> > > > Are there more than two copies of William's will? Two copies is standard - > (i) the original, signed by the testator and the witnesses, and (ii) a > register copy, written up in the probate court's will register. The latter > is always easy to identify because it is written on leaves of a bound book, > and is usually more neatly written, with everything, signatures and all, in > the same hand - the latter can be on paper of any size, often badly written, > and with the signatures in different hands. > > It wasn't uncommon for there to be yet more copies, though one doesn't > normally find them in the probate court's records. With the original filed > at the court, there had to be a third copy for the executors/administrators > to keep, and sometimes still more copies were made for other purposes. > > Pages 7, 8, 3, 4 and 5 of the Crumpler2 pdf are all the same probate > account, beginning on p7 and ending on p5. > > Matt > > > > > ------------------------------ > Privacy and Confidentiality Notice > This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or > organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and > confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must > not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have > received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and > delete it and any attached files from your system. >

Hi, Martyn --- Your wish is my command. I've ordered the documents from the Wiltshire & Swindon Record Office (except for the first one) from your list. I thought they'd post them to me --- imagine my pleasant surprise to discover I could download them straight away. I've downloaded the images and have combined them into another PDF file. It's located at: www.crumpler-family.com/Crumpler3.pdf<http://www.crumpler-family.com/Crumpler3.pdf> It's a 5.85 MB file --- 7 pages, including the invoice. Some of these look familiar to me: are they duplicates? The John Crumpler will (1742) is something that I can almost read. Kind regards, Craig Craig W Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd * Whitecroft * Colletts Green * Worcester WR2 4RY ***************************************************************** t 01905 830 380 m 07833 433 871 In the United States: 888-880-1531 See our online photo gallery at www.bark.ch Stock imagery available at www.hmdp.net ***************************************************************** From: mjcl [mailto:mjcl111@googlemail.com] Sent: 03 March 2009 15:31 To: Craig Walsh Cc: Tompkins, M.L.L. Subject: Re: William Crumpelhere Hi Craig, I've checked the list against the references pencilled on the documents. The ones you appear to be missing are - P5/1595/17 Account Mary - although this may be duplicated in P5/1595/52 P5/1633/13 Administration Bond - Edith P5/1752/8 Administration Bond and Will John P5/6Reg/111B Administration Bond - Richard & P5/6Reg/111C Adminsitration Bond - Mary All the best, Martyn = = = = = = = = On 03/03/2009, Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com<mailto:craig@hmdp.com>> wrote: Hi, Martyn --- Thanks for the list of documents. A distant relative of Marjorie's actually obtained the documents that I posted in the PDF files. I believe he visited the Wiltshire and Swindon Record Office. The list you kindly sent to me seems to be the same documents. Or am I mistaken? Glad to order more documents if any are missing . . . Kind regards, Craig From: mjcl [mailto:mjcl111@googlemail.com<mailto:mjcl111@googlemail.com>] Sent: 03 March 2009 14:53 To: Tompkins, M.L.L.; Craig Walsh Subject: Re: William Crumpelhere Hi Matt, I concur. And it is rare to get all the documents together. Craig, I don't know whether you have searched the Wiltshire and Swindon Record Office wills site but I did a search on "Crump" (because of the alternate spellings) and weeded out the irrelevancies. I have attached the search results for your information and if you are so minded you could apply for any documents that are of interest to them. I used to use their site for transcription practice as it used to be Free of Charge. This has since 26.1.09 changed and I believe the charge is now £5 for each reference, which can, as you can see be made up of a single or several documents. All the best, Martyn On 03/03/2009, Tompkins, M.L.L. <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk<mailto:mllt1@leicester.ac.uk>> wrote: Yes, the same thought had occurred to me - the probate process began with an inventory and ended with a probate account - while both of them post-dated the will, of course. What a fine thing it is to have all three documents for the same testator (and the two different versions of the will) - it's not often you get the complete set like this. With the added bonus of two testators. If only we had the probate/administration bond(s) as well,. Matt ________________________________ Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.

I sent Craig a transcript of page 7 some time ago. It is the start of the account. I can't keep up with where it is on the web site. Liz -----Original Message----- From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tompkins, M.L.L. Sent: Tuesday, 3 March 2009 9:59 AM To: mjcl Cc: old-english@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] Richard Hello Martyn, you're referring to pages 3-5 of the Crumpler2 pdf? I think the first part of the account is on pages 7 and 8 (headed 'The accompte' and 'The charge'). A transcript of page 8 ('The Charge') appears on the next page, page 4, of the 'Richard and Marie Crumplehere' webpage. Matt ________________________________ From: mjcl [mjcl111@googlemail.com] Sent: 02 March 2009 22:27 To: Craig Walsh Cc: Elizabeth Agar; Tompkins, M.L.L.; old-english@rootsweb.com; David Michael Subject: Re: Richard Hi Craig, Seems to work well! I am of a mind that somewhere is a first page of this Probate Account as in Line 2 the phrase "do further charge" is used. All the best, Martyn 2009/3/2 Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com<mailto:craig@hmdp.com>> Hi Liz and Martyn --- HTML coding problems now fixed -- more or less. Sorry for the slight intrusion of technology. I have now posted the transcriptions of the Richard Crumplehere probate account. Richard's page is located at: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/getperson.php?personID=I1300&tree=Walsh And the probate account (stitched together in Photoshop) and transcription are located at: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=729&medialinkID=1476 (This single document was pages 3, 4, and 5 of the Crumpler2 PDF file.) Please let me know if there are any corrections, changes, amendments, etc. and I will be glad to make them. Thank you for your help with the transcription of this document. I am off to do the next documents that Martyn has kindly sent to me --- pages 8 and 12 from the Crumpler 2 PDF. I will advise when these have been posted to the internet. Kind regards Craig Craig W. Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd. * Colletts Green * Worcester * WR2 4RY ******************************************************* 01905-830-380 (In USA 888-880-1531) 07833 433 871 ******************************************************* Sent from my MacBook ________________________________ From: mjcl <mjcl111@googlemail.com<http://mjcl111@googlemail.com>> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 08:37:21 -0500 To: Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com<http://craig@hmdp.com>> Subject: Re: Crumpler2 pp. 4 & 5 Hi Craig, It is actually a Probate Account which is the last bit of the grant of probate. You will quite often find in the Latin endorsements reference to a full account being submitted more often also in Administration Bonds. I had to have a lot of "double takes" to find where the over lap between pages 3 and for occurs it is actually in line 41 after "deceased[es]" .....XX...... w[hi]ch I hope that's clear, as Liz appears to have left out "which" and the following line. (That happened last time so I think her view is chopping the final line of the image.) Yes page 4 and 5 go together. Hopefully Matt or Eusebeia will proveide you with a much better translation of the Latin than I am likely to! Good luck with the encoding! All the best, Martyn ________________________________ Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system. ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, Martyn --- Good the way it is? No further tinkering needed? Glad to tinker --- and glad to stop tinkering. Kind regards, Craig Craig W Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd * Whitecroft * Colletts Green * Worcester WR2 4RY ***************************************************************** t 01905 830 380 m 07833 433 871 In the United States: 888-880-1531 See our online photo gallery at www.bark.ch Stock imagery available at www.hmdp.net ***************************************************************** ________________________________ Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.

Hi, Martyn --- Great idea --- thanks. I have tried to re-order the pages in the "album" as you've suggested. The album is at: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showalbum.php?albumID=8 The page with the complicated table (called Mary Crumpler - Will Inventory - 1597 - Page 2) is still giving me problems. I'm having a hard time moving it up/down in the list of documents in the album. I'll continue to work on this. In the meantime, in trying to fix the problem, I think I've made this page display a little better on screen --- please see: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=729&albumlinkID=35 I will find a way to fix the order of the pages. Can you please take a moment to look at the current order of the pages and please let me know what (if anything) needs to be moved, and moved where. Thanks. Kind regards, Craig Craig W. Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd. * Colletts Green * Worcester * WR2 4RY ******************************************************* 01905-830-380 (In USA 888-880-1531) 07833 433 871 ******************************************************* Sent from my MacBook ________________________________ From: mjcl <mjcl111@googlemail.com> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 07:08:37 -0500 To: Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com> Cc: "Tompkins, M.L.L." <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk>, <old-english@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: William Crumpelhere Hi Craig, I've had a look at what you've posted. Pages 1 & 2 are the Probate Account, 3 the Inventory and 4-7 the various Wills. Can I suggest that it might perhaps be better to place the wills at the start then the inventory followed by the probate account as this would be the chronologically correct order. Of course that is down to you and your preferences. All the best, Martyn ________________________________ Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.

Hi, Matt and Martyn --- Thank you for the clarification on the various images and how they fit together. I hadn't appreciated, until now, that pages 7 and 8 in the Crumper2.pdf were the top and bottom of the same page. My apologies. I have now combined the two into a single document using Photoshop, and have also combined the transcriptions. Page 7 and 8 from the PDF are now located at: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=730&albumlinkID=27 (I've deleted the web page of what was page 8 in the PDF file.) I've also tried to make things less confusing --- hopefully --- by grouping the documents into a single "album," which I've linked to Richard and Mary (Marie's) pages on the website: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showalbum.php?albumID=8 This album contains the various images and transcriptions that relate to Richard and Marie (Mary) --- I'm sorry I didn't think of doing this before, as may have saved much confusion. If there's anything that can be changed in the album (page names, order of pages, etc.) please let me know ---- this is easy to do. Thanks for the explanation about original and register copies of wills. Makes sense to me now. Here's the original copy: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=711&medialinkID=1447 And the register copy: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=710&medialinkID=1446 Both are in the "album," mentioned above. Kind regards, Craig Craig W. Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd. * Colletts Green * Worcester * WR2 4RY ******************************************************* 01905-830-380 (In USA 888-880-1531) 07833 433 871 ******************************************************* Sent from my MacBook ________________________________ From: mjcl <mjcl111@googlemail.com> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 03:48:18 -0500 To: "Tompkins, M.L.L." <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk> Cc: Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com> Subject: Re: William Crumpelhere Hi Matt, Thank you for resolving that ..... I was trying to examine it last night following you suggesting it. Unfortunately my lap top crashed and as it was late so I left it at that! And thankyou for answering the question re the will. Obviously we had the Register Copy and two other copies. All the best Martyn On 03/03/2009, Tompkins, M.L.L. <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk> wrote: <<Do you have any idea why there are several copies of William's will? In a day long before the invention of the photocopier, I'd have thought there would have only been one copy. Which of these (if any) is the "original" will, signed by William before his death?>> Are there more than two copies of William's will? Two copies is standard - (i) the original, signed by the testator and the witnesses, and (ii) a register copy, written up in the probate court's will register. The latter is always easy to identify because it is written on leaves of a bound book, and is usually more neatly written, with everything, signatures and all, in the same hand - the latter can be on paper of any size, often badly written, and with the signatures in different hands. It wasn't uncommon for there to be yet more copies, though one doesn't normally find them in the probate court's records. With the original filed at the court, there had to be a third copy for the executors/administrators to keep, and sometimes still more copies were made for other purposes. Pages 7, 8, 3, 4 and 5 of the Crumpler2 pdf are all the same probate account, beginning on p7 and ending on p5. Matt ________________________________ Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.

Hi Craig, This is again another probate account. All the best, Martyn 2009/3/2 Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com> > Hi, Martyn --- > > I’ve posted the next Crumplehere (Crumpler) document you kindly transcribed > to the family website. > > The direct link to the document is: > > http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=736&medialinkID=1484 > > (This is page 8 of the Crumpler2 PDF file.) > > There is a place for me to describe this document --- and I confess I don’t > really know how to do so. What is this document? Does it have a particular > name or purpose? > > As always, if there are any corrections, etc., please let me know and I > will make them straight away. > > Thank you for your help with this transcription. On to the next page . . . > . > > Kind regards, > > Craig > * > > Craig W. Walsh > Lucies Farm Ltd. * Colletts Green * Worcester * WR2 4RY > ******************************************************* > 01905-830-380 (In USA 888-880-1531) 07833 433 871 > ******************************************************* > **Sent from my MacBook > * > ------------------------------ > *From: *mjcl <mjcl111@googlemail.com> > *Date: *Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:07:24 -0500 > *To: *Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com> > *Subject: *Re: Crumpler2 pp. 4 & 5 > > Hi Craig, > > When you're dealing with a lot of people, as you are with this > transcription process, things like that can easily occur! > > I attach a couple more for you pp. 8 and 12 (p. 10 was the blank reverse > of p. 9). I am now starting on p. 14. > > All the best, > > Martyn > > ------------------------------ > Privacy and Confidentiality Notice > This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or > organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and > confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must > not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have > received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and > delete it and any attached files from your system. >

Hello Martyn, you're referring to pages 3-5 of the Crumpler2 pdf? I think the first part of the account is on pages 7 and 8 (headed 'The accompte' and 'The charge'). A transcript of page 8 ('The Charge') appears on the next page, page 4, of the 'Richard and Marie Crumplehere' webpage. Matt ________________________________ From: mjcl [mjcl111@googlemail.com] Sent: 02 March 2009 22:27 To: Craig Walsh Cc: Elizabeth Agar; Tompkins, M.L.L.; old-english@rootsweb.com; David Michael Subject: Re: Richard Hi Craig, Seems to work well! I am of a mind that somewhere is a first page of this Probate Account as in Line 2 the phrase "do further charge" is used. All the best, Martyn 2009/3/2 Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com<mailto:craig@hmdp.com>> Hi Liz and Martyn --- HTML coding problems now fixed -- more or less. Sorry for the slight intrusion of technology. I have now posted the transcriptions of the Richard Crumplehere probate account. Richard’s page is located at: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/getperson.php?personID=I1300&tree=Walsh And the probate account (stitched together in Photoshop) and transcription are located at: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=729&medialinkID=1476 (This single document was pages 3, 4, and 5 of the Crumpler2 PDF file.) Please let me know if there are any corrections, changes, amendments, etc. and I will be glad to make them. Thank you for your help with the transcription of this document. I am off to do the next documents that Martyn has kindly sent to me --- pages 8 and 12 from the Crumpler 2 PDF. I will advise when these have been posted to the internet. Kind regards Craig Craig W. Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd. * Colletts Green * Worcester * WR2 4RY ******************************************************* 01905-830-380 (In USA 888-880-1531) 07833 433 871 ******************************************************* Sent from my MacBook ________________________________ From: mjcl <mjcl111@googlemail.com<http://mjcl111@googlemail.com>> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 08:37:21 -0500 To: Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com<http://craig@hmdp.com>> Subject: Re: Crumpler2 pp. 4 & 5 Hi Craig, It is actually a Probate Account which is the last bit of the grant of probate. You will quite often find in the Latin endorsements reference to a full account being submitted more often also in Administration Bonds. I had to have a lot of "double takes" to find where the over lap between pages 3 and for occurs it is actually in line 41 after "deceased[es]" .....XX...... w[hi]ch I hope that's clear, as Liz appears to have left out "which" and the following line. (That happened last time so I think her view is chopping the final line of the image.) Yes page 4 and 5 go together. Hopefully Matt or Eusebeia will proveide you with a much better translation of the Latin than I am likely to! Good luck with the encoding! All the best, Martyn ________________________________ Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.

Many thanks to all that helped - the word was indeed inter(rogato)rie! Peter

Hi Craig, Seems to work well! I am of a mind that somewhere is a first page of this Probate Account as in Line 2 the phrase "do further charge" is used. All the best, Martyn 2009/3/2 Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com> > Hi Liz and Martyn --- > > HTML coding problems now fixed -- more or less. Sorry for the slight > intrusion of technology. > > I have now posted the transcriptions of the Richard Crumplehere probate > account. Richard’s page is located at: > > http://lordoflucies.com/tng/getperson.php?personID=I1300&tree=Walsh > > And the probate account (stitched together in Photoshop) and transcription > are located at: > > http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=729&medialinkID=1476 > > (This single document was pages 3, 4, and 5 of the Crumpler2 PDF file.) > > Please let me know if there are any corrections, changes, amendments, etc. > and I will be glad to make them. > > Thank you for your help with the transcription of this document. > > I am off to do the next documents that Martyn has kindly sent to me --- > pages 8 and 12 from the Crumpler 2 PDF. I will advise when these have been > posted to the internet. > > Kind regards > > Craig > * > > Craig W. Walsh > Lucies Farm Ltd. * Colletts Green * Worcester * WR2 4RY > ******************************************************* > 01905-830-380 (In USA 888-880-1531) 07833 433 871 > ******************************************************* > **Sent from my MacBook > * > > ------------------------------ > *From: *mjcl <mjcl111@googlemail.com> > *Date: *Mon, 2 Mar 2009 08:37:21 -0500 > *To: *Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com> > *Subject: *Re: Crumpler2 pp. 4 & 5 > > Hi Craig, > > It is actually a Probate Account which is the last bit of the grant of > probate. You will quite often find in the Latin endorsements reference to a > full account being submitted more often also in Administration Bonds. > > I had to have a lot of "double takes" to find where the over lap between > pages 3 and for occurs it is actually in line 41 after "deceased[es]" ..... > XX...... w[hi]ch > > I hope that's clear, as Liz appears to have left out "which" and the > following line. (That happened last time so I think her view is chopping > the final line of the image.) > > Yes page 4 and 5 go together. Hopefully Matt or Eusebeia will proveide you > with a much better translation of the Latin than I am likely to! > > Good luck with the encoding! > > All the best, > > Martyn > > ------------------------------ > Privacy and Confidentiality Notice > This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or > organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and > confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must > not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have > received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and > delete it and any attached files from your system. >

Hi, Martyn --- I have now posted the transcription of this damaged document on the website at: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showmedia.php?mediaID=737&albumlinkID=30 I've added it to what's called an "album" for William Crumpler's (Crumplehere's) will. The main page for the album is: http://lordoflucies.com/tng/showalbum.php?albumID=7 Please let me know if there are any corrections, etc. Do you have any idea why there are several copies of William's will? In a day long before the invention of the photocopier, I'd have thought there would have only been one copy. Which of these (if any) is the "original" will, signed by William before his death? These transcribed pages are 16 and 17 in the Crumpler 2 PDF file. The two pages comprise a single document: I've used Photoshop to put the two pieces back together again. Thank you for your help with this, Martyn. Kind regards, Craig Craig W. Walsh Lucies Farm Ltd. * Colletts Green * Worcester * WR2 4RY ******************************************************* 01905-830-380 (In USA 888-880-1531) 07833 433 871 ******************************************************* Sent from my MacBook ________________________________ From: mjcl <mjcl111@googlemail.com> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:07:54 -0500 To: Craig Walsh <craig@hmdp.com> Subject: Last 2 Crumpler2 pages Hi Craig, Please find attached pp. 16 & 18 which appear to be another copy of the will that we all started off on. It has been a pleasure being involved in this project. All the best, Martyn ________________________________ Privacy and Confidentiality Notice This is strictly confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please notify us as soon as possible and delete it and any attached files from your system.