Is it possible the word might be R'd - short form of 'reputed', which would mean that Christopher Eyers and the child's mother were unmarried? Just a thought IAN

Hello Robert. Although it seems pretty well impossible in view of its use in the burial entry and of course because of the father's "Christian" name I wonder if it could it be an abbreviation for "Yiddish/Jiddish" ie Jewish ? Jim Halsey On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Robert Hillier < robert@hillieruk.demon.co.uk> wrote: > In a Dorset baptismal record in a parish register in 1687, the father's > name (Christopher Eyers) is followed by what I read a few weeks ago as > Jid. Today I found the father's burial record in 1701 - this time I > read the word/abbreviation after his surname as Jid or fid (not Fid). No > other entry that I've seen in this register has this word. It's not Sen >

In a Dorset baptismal record in a parish register in 1687, the father's name (Christopher Eyers) is followed by what I read a few weeks ago as Jid. Today I found the father's burial record in 1701 - this time I read the word/abbreviation after his surname as Jid or fid (not Fid). No other entry that I've seen in this register has this word. It's not Sen or Jun (wrong shapes for the letters and I've also seen Sen elsewhere). The i and d seem quite clear - I'm not so sure of the J or possibly the f (it's not F, which is written as ff here). It's not a placename (no "of" before it, as occurs for other entries). Since this occurs in the burial record as well, it can't be one of the abbreviations ux etc which denotes "and of his wife" in the baptismal records. It's not Wid (which is used elsewhere for widows). I would be grateful for any suggestions - the duty archivist had not come across my reading before ( he didn't get a chance to view the microfilm for himself) so I'm probably just misreading the entries and I'll kick myself at sometime but in case I'm not , what do you think? Best wishes to all listers, Robert Hillier

As a placename element 'Grind' often means 'green'; in other cases it derives from a personal name Ian

Hello Richard, An old (1753) dictionary tells me that "GRINDLE-stone" is "a kind of whitish gritty stone". But whether that plays any part in the origins of the word "Grindley" ie "Grind-ley" is another matter. The same dictionary has the word "Grindlet" which is described as "a small drain, ditch or gutter" Jim H.. On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Richard Talbot < richard.talbot88@btinternet.com> wrote: > In the manorial court records for Newcastle-under-Lyme there are many > references to Grindley, grindley fields, farm etc. dating from the late 17th > century. Also on a map of 1775 the whole area was called Grindley Hill. 1572 > Grindle, 1586 Gryndleyfield and Gryndley Hill, 1596 Grinley > > Any thoughts on where the name of Grindley would have come from. >

In the manorial court records for Newcastle-under-Lyme there are many references to Grindley, grindley fields, farm etc. dating from the late 17th century. Also on a map of 1775 the whole area was called Grindley Hill. 1572 Grindle, 1586 Gryndleyfield and Gryndley Hill, 1596 Grinley Any thoughts on where the name of Grindley would have come from. Many Thanks Richard

Hi Audrey, I had a look at OED and have come to the conclusion that a "sich" is possibly a small stream eam of water (or possibly a stretch of meadow) as per below ....... sitch - "Forms: 1 *sic*, 4, 6 *syche*, 5-7 *siche*, 6 *sucche*, 7 *sich*, 9 *sech*, *seech*; 6 *sytche*, 7 *sytch*; 6-7 *sitche*, 9 *sitch*. *1.* = SIKE<http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=misspelling&queryword=sich&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&search_id=5F8k-kUTYbc-139&control_no=null&result_place=4&xrefword=sike&ps=n.&homonym_no=1> *n.*1** 1. Chiefly recorded in descriptions of boundaries. *969* in Birch *Cartul. Sax.* III. 535 Of [image: {th}]am mere west..[image: {th}]onne innan anne sice [image: {th}]onne andlangc sices [image: {th}]æt cym[image: {edh}] to [image: {th}]æm hor pytte. [*?c1160* in Dugdale *Mon. Angl.* (1825) V. 584 In viis, et aquis, in sichis et moris.] *c1315* SHOREHAM<http://dictionary.oed.com/help/bib/oed2-s2.html#shoreham>v. 177 Ine flom iordanes syche He was ycrystned. *1410* *Coventry Leet Bk.* 12 Et abhinc vsque Merdonsiche. Et sic per illam siche diuertendo vsque [etc.]. *1523* FITZHERB.<http://dictionary.oed.com/help/bib/oed2-f.html#fitzherb> *Surv.* 10b, Some rynning waters be commen, as lytell brokes, and sytches. * Ibid.* 50 Smale ryuers, brokes, sucches,..and pyttes. *1581* *Coventry Leet Bk.* (E.E.T.S.) 826 A litle waye into the sitche there, called Sisley-hole,..& vnder the bridge vp the sitche to Hyndwell. *1601* in *Ch. Stretton* (1904) II. 195 Thence following the fylde..and then up a sytch called Newe sytch. *1637* in Miss Jackson *Shropsh. Word-bk.* s.v., Half a land in the Barley field near Stafford's siche. *1684* MANLEY<http://dictionary.oed.com/help/bib/oed2-m.html#manley>, *Sichetum*.., a Sich or small Current of Water that uses to be dry in the Summer. *1826-* in dialect glossaries (Chesh., Northampt., Shropsh., Sheff.)." Then link as above to "SIKE" :- " *1.* A small stream of water, a rill or streamlet, esp. one flowing through flat or marshy ground, and often dry in summer; a ditch or channel through which a tiny stream flows. In former times freq. used as a boundary between lands, fields, etc. (cf. sense 2). [image: {dag}]*2.* A stretch of meadow; a field. *Obs.* *rare*. *1479* *Priory of Hexham* (Surtees) II. 6 Idem t[enet] ij sykes prati,..Adam del Hyll t[enet] j syk, et r. p. a. ijd. *1641* BEST<http://dictionary.oed.com/help/bib/oed2-b2.html#best> *Farm. Bks.* (Surtees) 38 The Mount-Sikes is 5 dayworkes, and had in it..seaven score and two grasse cockes..; the waine-way into this close is att the gate a little within the gate of the Greate-Sikes. *1669* WORLIDGE<http://dictionary.oed.com/help/bib/oed2-w3.html#worlidge> *Syst. Agric.* (1681) 331 A *Sike*, a Quillet or Furrow" All the best, As to whether the "whyt" refers to a name or is descriptive of a colour I would not make a guess at. Martyn On 25/06/2009, A Lee <alee231@btinternet.com> wrote: > > Dear Listers > > To all who had a go at helping me with this word in connection with a > medieval document about Lichfield, we have decided, between us, that it is > Whytsich and not Whycsich and this has been confirmed by the discovery of a > road name in the same county which is Whitesich. It would be interesting to > know the meaning of this name but reading it has helped. Thank you all for > your suggestions. > > Audrey > > > > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Listers To all who had a go at helping me with this word in connection with a medieval document about Lichfield, we have decided, between us, that it is Whytsich and not Whycsich and this has been confirmed by the discovery of a road name in the same county which is Whitesich. It would be interesting to know the meaning of this name but reading it has helped. Thank you all for your suggestions. Audrey

Judith Many thanks for posting this interesting link. It will be fascinating to see how the research develops. There is also the enticing prospect that researchers might perhaps one day be able to extract human DNA from these old books as a few volumes were covered in human skin. I have a particular interest through my Devon research in one George CUDMORE whose skin was used to cover a book of Milton's poems: http://homepage.smc.edu/larsen_lyle/odd_volumes.htm I'd love to think that one day it might be possible to extract his DNA for inclusion in my Devon DNA Project: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Devon Debbie Kennett -----Original Message----- From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Judith Werner Sent: 23 June 2009 00:34 To: old-english@rootsweb.com Subject: [OEL] Medieval manuscripts and DNA This will interest some of you: DNA Testing May Unlock Secrets Of Medieval Manuscripts http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090112093328.htm cheers, Judith Werner Salt Lake City, Utah, USA Administrator, OLD-ENGLISH http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/

Thanks for this Judith - could be very interesting to link a writer with someone known for other compositions etc? Had my DNA checked last year - many moons ago we came from the middle East area including Turkey - like the majority of us I suppose?? Haven't heard from you lately, hope everything is ok? Cheer Roy -----Original Message----- From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Judith Werner Sent: 23 June 2009 00:34 To: old-english@rootsweb.com Subject: [OEL] Medieval manuscripts and DNA This will interest some of you: DNA Testing May Unlock Secrets Of Medieval Manuscripts http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090112093328.htm cheers, Judith Werner Salt Lake City, Utah, USA Administrator, OLD-ENGLISH http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This will interest some of you: DNA Testing May Unlock Secrets Of Medieval Manuscripts http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090112093328.htm cheers, Judith Werner Salt Lake City, Utah, USA Administrator, OLD-ENGLISH http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/

<<I have a problem name in a document about Lichfield. It is either Wycsich or Wytsich. The document is 14th century and is in Latin but the place names are English. If anyone would like to see it, I could scan it in for you. We have a problem with the letter c and letter t as they are more or less the same.>> I'll have a look at it, Audrey, though if the problem is only whether the third letter is c or t, I probably won't be any help - as you say, they can be extremely difficult to distinguish in hands from that period. Matt

Dear Listers I have a problem name in a document about Lichfield. It is either Wycsich or Wytsich. The document is 14th century and is in Latin but the place names are English. If anyone would like to see it, I could scan it in for you. We have a problem with the letter c and letter t as they are more or less the same. Audrey

I apologize if this comes through twice, I don't believe the first one went through. A few years ago, a few of you helped me with an inventory of the household goods of a John Jeanes in VA, about 1665. There is one name on the document that I still am not satisfied with. It is a name of one of the appraisers. I believe the name is Edward Hill. If it is, then it could be that this John Jeanes was the father of a John Jean, who was Edward Hill's neighbor 7 years later. But I can't be sure that is what it says. I have cropped the image, put it in negative, etc...... I wondered if anyone would take a look at them and give me an opinion. I have put them in a pdf file that I can send. Thanks, Renee Newman

Many thanks to Kelly and Audrey for their interest and for offering to look at the .jpeg image of the original Inventory document. 'Drons' is a non-starter and should read as the commonly found 'irons' so the two lines are now, 'Item all the netts and wars (wares) yt Belongs to fish prisd for 5s' 'Item the ----- and irons and spear priced for 8s' Kelly suggested the word in the second line is 'gables' a variant of 'cables' a word common from the 15th century onwards especially in relation to ropes and chains in shipping and sailing. As the river is the Dyfi near Machynlleth in Wales the following etymological link with 'gabul' is also interesting and might be worth further local research, 'From about 1475 A.D., from Middle French javeline (15th century), diminutive of Old French javelot, "a spear", probably from Gaulish (Old Irish gabul "fork"; Welsh gafl, "fork" gaflach, "feathered spear"). Also found in Italian as giavelotto and Middle High German as gabilot.' www.wordinfo This Inventory from a will of a farmer who died in 1729 is all the more interesting locally because of the enjoyable story in Chapter 78 of George Borrow's 'Wild Wales' (1862) which gives an account of a local Machynlleth farmer being tried at the petty sessions for allegedly illegally spearing a salmon while taking his cows across the river Dyfi. He was fined £4 which in todays money would equate to £271.53 using the retail price index or a staggering £2,525 using average earnings. An expensive lunch. The story relates how the accused was locally known as being very fond of fish and having speared more than any other six individuals in the neighbourhood. He would carry the stick innocently enough keeping the spear head out of sight untilhe had crossed the river and assessed the opportunities. Best wishes Barbara

Hi everyone I was delighted to find a reference to fishing in a will inventory of 1722 recently and would like to wring out of the few words as much as I can. The first line is clear enough I think but the second line might contain more in the same vein if anyone could have a quick look for me. I can send a small jpeg. 'Item all the netts and wars (wares) yt Belongs to fish prisd for 5s' 'Item the ----- and drons? and spear priced for 8s' The spear is straighforward and would probably have been the three pronged type used until recently by country folk for taking trout out of local streams (not always legally!) but I'm wondering what the drons might be. Is cauldon ever shortened this way or should this be read as 'Irons'? The missing word here looks like table but could it be cable or something else? I'm sure that anyone who is listing their spear and nets in an inventory would have had a legal right of some kind to use them. Any comments? Many thanks and best wishes Barbara

Hi Keith We would just say that there were four rooms on each floor and that the front garden was laid down to grass...:-) Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Griffiths" <griffiths370@btinternet.com> To: "Old English mailing list" <OLD-ENGLISH@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 9:51 PM Subject: [OEL] House to let in 1756 I have a 1756 description of a house to let. It was located on the North Downs of Kent. It was also mentioned in a will of the early 1500s when it was said "I leave my mansion house to ...". The 1756 description includes expressions I do not understand. Viz. "containing four Rooms of a Floor" and "a Green Court before the Hall Door". Any help in interpretating these words would be appreciated. Thanks Keith Griffiths Elmsted, Kent ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have a 1756 description of a house to let. It was located on the North Downs of Kent. It was also mentioned in a will of the early 1500s when it was said "I leave my mansion house to ...". The 1756 description includes expressions I do not understand. Viz. "containing four Rooms of a Floor" and "a Green Court before the Hall Door". Any help in interpretating these words would be appreciated. Thanks Keith Griffiths Elmsted, Kent

The temptation to recall clodhoppers was rather strong and did come immediately to mind but think it may not have described a place in the middle of Lichfield, albeit in 1312. At least, I'm hoping that the middle of Lichfield wasn't so muddy as to require clodhoppers. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Nason" <mfcn@btinternet.com> To: "List, OE" <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 5:07 PM Subject: [OEL] Word meaning > Le Clodchepinge . . . . > > I'm not going to risk a guess at the term but suggest that the context may > give a clue? I assume it is Old French, which would suggest a mediaeval > dating. Possibly not a surname then, perhaps it might be an Anglicisation > of a place name or personal name . . . 'cheaping' meant a market? The > definite article suggests something other than an occupation > > In my childhood, large boots were called clodhoppers. I'm sure it's not > that! I await the opinion of a learned contributor. > > Mike N. > > > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I agree that 'cheaping' (as in the placenames Chipping Sodbury, etc) means market, place where merchants conducted business. For 'clod' my suggestion would be CLOTH Ian