See the point about gee gees but there are so many people around here with that name that you would have to add an awful lot of gees to them - perhaps a whole race meeting of them and then some? Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: <VictorOly@aol.com> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] Racecourses and cathedrals > I'm going off topic here a little, but I did here funny story about > Chester's Racecourse the Roodee: > > 'The first recorded race at the 'Roodee Fields' was held on February 9th > 1539, in the reign of Henry the Eighth, with the consent of Chester's Lord > Mayor, Henry Gee (whose surname gave rise to the 'gee-gees' nick name for > racehorses).' > > And, I suppose 'gee-up' > > GAY > > > > Gay J Oliver, Stalybridge, Cheshire > gayandmike.co.uk > tamesidefamilyhistory.co.uk > ashtongrammar.co.uk > www.tamesidehistoryforum.org.uk > www.fhsc.org.uk/fhsc/dukinfield.htm > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: - Release Date: <unknown> > >

Yes, Canterbury certainly appears to be an exception. It does have a remarkably good cricket ground but that is rather irrelevant to the present discussion. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Pott" <davpott@hotmail.com> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 4:19 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] Racecourses and cathedrals >I don't recall ever seeing any mention of race courses anywhere near either > of Kent's cathedrals. > > Having said that Canterbury was associated with a number of fairs and > markets. > > The county meeting place however was on Penenden Heath which is just to > the > north of Maidstone which at some point in time took over the role of > county > town from the city of Canterbury. > > > > David Pott dip. Kent Hist. > Market Inn, Faversham, Kent > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of A Lee > Sent: 18 August 2009 11:16 > To: Tompkins, M.L.L.; OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [OEL] Racecourses and cathedrals > > That sounds a good idea. Of course, you do have also to look at > topography. > As Barbara says, there are also those that appear to buck the trend, such > as > > Ely. Incidentally, we did also go to Ely. We just couldn't do cathedrals > and > > miss that glorious building out. Perhaps there was a race course there at > some time that has sunk beneath the mud? As I've just written to Barbara > and > > forgot to post to list (sorry), there was once a race course in the middle > of Manchester but Manchester Cathedral would still have been only a > collegiate church at that time, only having been comparatively recently > elevated to the status of cathedral. I also think that Barbara's idea of > the > > PhD might be a runner? > > As for me, I'm going to York Races soon and may or may not visit the > minster, having done this before. However, we did miss out the race course > on our tour as there wasn't a meeting on at that time. We did make an > overall win, using only minimum bets, that provided us with a good evening > meal before we arrived back home. I really could recommend the idea. > > Audrey > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tompkins, M.L.L." <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk> > To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:31 PM > Subject: Re: [OEL] Racecourses and cathedrals > > >> <<My question then and now is why do so many cathedrals have race courses >> nearby and the converse, why have so many race courses established >> themselves close to cathedrals? Can anyone help with this puzzle of >> mine?>> >> >> My guess would be (and it's just a guess) that race courses were usually >> set up in county towns and other similar places, because those were >> places > >> where people, especially the horse-owning and -racing classes, tended to >> gather (for all sorts of reasons, administrative, legal, commercial, >> social) - and most cathedral cities were exactly that kind of place. >> >> Matt Tompkins >> >> >> ==================================== >> WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ >> ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> -- >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: - Release Date: <unknown> >> >> > > > > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/18/09 > 06:03:00 > > > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: - Release Date: <unknown> > >

Kirkmanshulme, was though part of the domain lands of Manchester Parish Church, after all Manchester did'nt become a Catherdral until about 1840. Gay J Oliver, Stalybridge, Cheshire gayandmike.co.uk tamesidefamilyhistory.co.uk ashtongrammar.co.uk www.tamesidehistoryforum.org.uk www.fhsc.org.uk/fhsc/dukinfield.htm

I don't recall ever seeing any mention of race courses anywhere near either of Kent's cathedrals. Having said that Canterbury was associated with a number of fairs and markets. The county meeting place however was on Penenden Heath which is just to the north of Maidstone which at some point in time took over the role of county town from the city of Canterbury. David Pott dip. Kent Hist. Market Inn, Faversham, Kent -----Original Message----- From: old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:old-english-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of A Lee Sent: 18 August 2009 11:16 To: Tompkins, M.L.L.; OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] Racecourses and cathedrals That sounds a good idea. Of course, you do have also to look at topography. As Barbara says, there are also those that appear to buck the trend, such as Ely. Incidentally, we did also go to Ely. We just couldn't do cathedrals and miss that glorious building out. Perhaps there was a race course there at some time that has sunk beneath the mud? As I've just written to Barbara and forgot to post to list (sorry), there was once a race course in the middle of Manchester but Manchester Cathedral would still have been only a collegiate church at that time, only having been comparatively recently elevated to the status of cathedral. I also think that Barbara's idea of the PhD might be a runner? As for me, I'm going to York Races soon and may or may not visit the minster, having done this before. However, we did miss out the race course on our tour as there wasn't a meeting on at that time. We did make an overall win, using only minimum bets, that provided us with a good evening meal before we arrived back home. I really could recommend the idea. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tompkins, M.L.L." <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] Racecourses and cathedrals > <<My question then and now is why do so many cathedrals have race courses > nearby and the converse, why have so many race courses established > themselves close to cathedrals? Can anyone help with this puzzle of > mine?>> > > My guess would be (and it's just a guess) that race courses were usually > set up in county towns and other similar places, because those were places > where people, especially the horse-owning and -racing classes, tended to > gather (for all sorts of reasons, administrative, legal, commercial, > social) - and most cathedral cities were exactly that kind of place. > > Matt Tompkins > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: - Release Date: <unknown> > > ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/18/09 06:03:00

I'm going off topic here a little, but I did here funny story about Chester's Racecourse the Roodee: 'The first recorded race at the 'Roodee Fields' was held on February 9th 1539, in the reign of Henry the Eighth, with the consent of Chester's Lord Mayor, Henry Gee (whose surname gave rise to the 'gee-gees' nick name for racehorses).' And, I suppose 'gee-up' GAY Gay J Oliver, Stalybridge, Cheshire gayandmike.co.uk tamesidefamilyhistory.co.uk ashtongrammar.co.uk www.tamesidehistoryforum.org.uk www.fhsc.org.uk/fhsc/dukinfield.htm

That sounds a good idea. Of course, you do have also to look at topography. As Barbara says, there are also those that appear to buck the trend, such as Ely. Incidentally, we did also go to Ely. We just couldn't do cathedrals and miss that glorious building out. Perhaps there was a race course there at some time that has sunk beneath the mud? As I've just written to Barbara and forgot to post to list (sorry), there was once a race course in the middle of Manchester but Manchester Cathedral would still have been only a collegiate church at that time, only having been comparatively recently elevated to the status of cathedral. I also think that Barbara's idea of the PhD might be a runner? As for me, I'm going to York Races soon and may or may not visit the minster, having done this before. However, we did miss out the race course on our tour as there wasn't a meeting on at that time. We did make an overall win, using only minimum bets, that provided us with a good evening meal before we arrived back home. I really could recommend the idea. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tompkins, M.L.L." <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] Racecourses and cathedrals > <<My question then and now is why do so many cathedrals have race courses > nearby and the converse, why have so many race courses established > themselves close to cathedrals? Can anyone help with this puzzle of > mine?>> > > My guess would be (and it's just a guess) that race courses were usually > set up in county towns and other similar places, because those were places > where people, especially the horse-owning and -racing classes, tended to > gather (for all sorts of reasons, administrative, legal, commercial, > social) - and most cathedral cities were exactly that kind of place. > > Matt Tompkins > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: - Release Date: <unknown> > >

<<My question then and now is why do so many cathedrals have race courses nearby and the converse, why have so many race courses established themselves close to cathedrals? Can anyone help with this puzzle of mine?>> My guess would be (and it's just a guess) that race courses were usually set up in county towns and other similar places, because those were places where people, especially the horse-owning and -racing classes, tended to gather (for all sorts of reasons, administrative, legal, commercial, social) - and most cathedral cities were exactly that kind of place. Matt Tompkins

----- Original Message ----- From: "A Lee" <alee231@btinternet.com> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:22 AM > Dear Listers > > Some years ago I decided that, since I seemed to have visited more foreign > cathedrals than those in the UK, I should remedy this. In tandem, since I > also enjoy going horse racing and had noticed that many courses are > situated fairly close to cathedrals and/or minsters, we could combine the > two in a tour of England, first of all. I had a list of cathedrals and a > few other places that I wanted to visit and so suggested it to my husband > who agreed. I got out the map and a list of race meetings and worked out a > route. We booked into B & Bs along our way. > > My question then and now is why do so many cathedrals have race courses > nearby and the converse, why have so many race courses established > themselves close to cathedrals? Can anyone help with this puzzle of mine? > > I would recommend the tour by the way. We set off from home on the edge of > the High Peak, travelled down the middle of the country to the south > coast, turned left and travelled a short direction almost due east and > then back along the east side of the country as far as Beverley Minster > and race course. We didn't visit many cathedrals where there were no race > meetings at the nearby race courses and so didn't take in York but we did > go to one or two cathedrals where there were no meetings nearby because of > a particular interest in the cathedral. > > So, if anyone knows the reason why race courses and cathedrals are often > so closely situated, I should be very pleased to hear your explanation. > > Audrey >

Dear Listers Some years ago I decided that, since I seemed to have visited more foreign cathedrals than those in the UK, I should remedy this. In tandem, since I also enjoy going horse racing and had noticed that many courses are situated fairly close to cathedrals and/or minsters, we could combine the two in a tour of England, first of all. I had a list of cathedrals and a few other places that I wanted to visit and so suggested it to my husband who agreed. I got out the map and a list of race meetings and worked out a route. We booked into B & Bs along our way. My question then and now is why do so many cathedrals have race courses nearby and the converse, why have so many race courses established themselves close to cathedrals? Can anyone help with this puzzle of mine? I would recommend the tour by the way. We set off from home on the edge of the High Peak, travelled down the middle of the country to the south coast, turned left and travelled a short direction almost due east and then back along the east side of the country as far as Beverley Minster and race course. We didn't visit many cathedrals where there were no race meetings at the nearby race courses and so didn't take in York but we did go to one or two cathedrals where there were no meetings nearby because of a particular interest in the cathedral. So, if anyone knows the reason why race courses and cathedrals are often so closely situated, I should be very pleased to hear your explanation. Audrey

Many thanks to those who were kind enough to reply to my question. Don Tomkinson

This is just to cast a possible spanner in the works. A lot of Welshmen went to South America and settled in Patagonia. I believe they still speak a form of Welsh there. Is it worth looking at their records. I think mining was involved. Google might help. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Tomkinson" <don.tomkinson@lineone.net> To: "OLD ENGLISH MESSAGE" <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 4:29 PM Subject: [OEL] RECRUITMENT OF MINERS FOR THE U.S.A. > My great grandfather, William Davis, a coal miner of St. Martins, > Shropshire, left his family in about 1869, to go to the U.S.A. to "look > for > gold, I was told." I don't believe that there were any of the great gold > rushes at that time, but wonder if there was then any recruitment of > British > miners for the States which induced him to go and probably provided an > assisted passage for which he would have been unlikely to have had the > means > himself? > > I would be grateful for any information. > > I know that William settled in America, but have never been able to locate > him there in the records, amongst the myriads of William Davies's. > > Don Tomkinson > > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: - Release Date: <unknown> > >

My great grandfather, William Davis, a coal miner of St. Martins, Shropshire, left his family in about 1869, to go to the U.S.A. to "look for gold, I was told." I don't believe that there were any of the great gold rushes at that time, but wonder if there was then any recruitment of British miners for the States which induced him to go and probably provided an assisted passage for which he would have been unlikely to have had the means himself? I would be grateful for any information. I know that William settled in America, but have never been able to locate him there in the records, amongst the myriads of William Davies's. Don Tomkinson

List, Here's the transcription I have sent to Diane - 1. This is the last Will and Testament 2. of me John Perkins Muschamp of No 9 Snows Fields in the Parishe of Saint 3. Mary Magdalen Bermondsey in the county of Surrey an Plate worker I direct that 4. all my just debts funeral and testamentary expences may in the first place be paid 5. and satisfied by my executrix hereinafter named and whereas I bequeath all the re- 6. idue of my money my securities for money household furniture plate linen china 7. goods chattels books book debts stock in trade and utensils and all other my estate and 8. effects of what nature or kind soever, the same may be or consist of and wheresoever 9. the same may be at the time of my death I give and bequeath unto my dear wife 10. Selenia Muschamp for her own absolute use and benefit and lastly I nominate 11. constitute and appoint my said dear wife Selenia Muschamp sole Executrix of 12. this my last will and testament and hereby revoking and making void all and every 13. other will and testament In witness whereof I have hereunto set my had ^ and ^ seal this 14 . 1 day of december ^in the year of our Lord ^ one thousand eight hundred and forty six John Perkins Muschamp 15. Signed by the said John Perkins Muschamp in the presence of both of us who in 16. his presence and in the presence of each other have hereunto subscribed our names 17. as witnesses – William Penman of Snowsfield Bermondsey – Henry Bat Sydenham Kent 18. Proved at London 29th February 1848 before the Worshipful William Calverley 19. Curtis doctor of Laws and Surrogate by the oath of Selina (in the will written Selinia) 20. Muschamp Widow the Relict the sole executrix to whom adm[inistrati]on was granted having 21. been first sworn duly to administer./. All the best, Martyn 2009/8/6 Diane Sowden <dpkms20042000@yahoo.co.uk> > Hi list, > > Martyn emailed me of list, and he is going to TRY and I mean TRY to read > the will for me! It is very small writing and this might take him a very > long while to do! > > Diane > > > > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > OLD-ENGLISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi list,   Martyn emailed me of list, and he is going to TRY and I mean TRY to read the will for me!  It is very small writing and this might take him a very long while to do!   Diane

Hi there I am new to this list and my name is Diane.   Could I please send you a copy of a will for you to read by attachment do you think, as I know that other mailing lists don't like attachments?   All the best   Diane Sowden

Hi Diane. You can't attach things to mailing list messages because attachments can contain malicious code. There are several ways to handle it depending on the nature of your questions -- whether it's just a few words or lines or whether you can't read anything -- and the size of the will. 1. If you have a web page or access to one, you can post it there then give the web address to the list. 2. If it's not too large and copyright isn't going to be a problem, you could scan it and send it me to post on the Old English List's web page. 3. You can offer to send a scan to anyone willing to take a look at it. If it's very large or very difficult to read, this would be a big ask! Then there's another way I'm not allowed to "advertise" on the list but I'll contact you off list about that. You could send me a copy for starters -- I can advise you better if I know just what you have in mind. cheers, Judith Werner Salt Lake City, Utah, USA Administrator, OLD-ENGLISH http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ Hi there I am new to this list and my name is Diane. Could I please send you a copy of a will for you to read by attachment do you think, as I know that other mailing lists don't like attachments? All the best Diane Sowden

<<Is there anyone who could help me please to translate a small portion of a manorial record which is written in Latin with abbreviations? I have a digital photograph of the document which I could send. The writing is fairly clear and neat and from the early 1700s.>> I'd be happy to help, Barbara. Matt Tompkins

Hi Is there anyone who could help me please to translate a small portion of a manorial record which is written in Latin with abbreviations? I have a digital photograph of the document which I could send. The writing is fairly clear and neat and from the early 1700s. Many thanks Barbara

Courtesy of Ian Goddard on another list I've just discovered that the PRO now offer digital images of this series of documents on-line (presumably a spin-off from the Medieval Soldiers project). If you go to: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=6&CATID=5590499&SearchInit=4&CATREF=E+101%2F45%2F13 it seems to offer that facility. If you do purchase an image I'd be delighted to help transcribe and translate it, though if it does mention the three Judson's they will probably just be names in a long list of names, though perhaps with a period of service or sum due in respect of pay next to each one. Matt -----Original Message----- From: Don Tomkinson [mailto:don.tomkinson@lineone.net] Sent: 29 July 2009 16:53 To: Tompkins, M.L.L.; OLD ENGLISH MESSAGE Subject: Re: [OEL] MEDIEVAL SOLDIERS Hello Matt, Very many thanks, once again. It;s exciting to think that some of my forebears could very well have been at Agincourt and would have seen Henry V. I'll try to see a copy of Anne Curry's book. Regared, Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tompkins, M.L.L." <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk> To: "OLD ENGLISH MESSAGE" <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] MEDIEVAL SOLDIERS > <<I am intrigued to see that three Judsons are listed as archers in 1417 > in the French expedition under the command of Humphrey, Duke of > Gloucester. Judsons were my maternal ancesters whom I've traced in > Cheshire back to the 16th century. Was Cheshire known for providing > archers in the 15th. century?>> > > Yes, it certainly was! Most books on English archers, or armies > generally, during the Hundred Years War will comment on it, but most will > give their source as P. Morgan, 'War and Society in Medieval Cheshire, > 1277-1403' (Manchester, 1987). > > <<Is there a possibility that these archers would have been at Agincourt > in 1415?>> > > It must be possible, as the duke of Gloucester was present at the battle. > The indenture listing the men under his command at the start of the > campaign is in the PRO, reference E 101/45/13, but I believe there's a > printed version of it in a list of all the men-at-arms and archers in the > entire army in an appendix to Anne Curry's 'Agincourt: a New History' (the > 2005 hardback edition, not the 2006 paperback). > > Matt Tompkins > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tompkins, M.L.L." <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk> To: "OLD ENGLISH MESSAGE" <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] MEDIEVAL SOLDIERS > <<I am intrigued to see that three Judsons are listed as archers in 1417 > in the French expedition under the command of Humphrey, Duke of > Gloucester. Judsons were my maternal ancesters whom I've traced in > Cheshire back to the 16th century. Was Cheshire known for providing > archers in the 15th. century?>> > > Yes, it certainly was! Most books on English archers, or armies > generally, during the Hundred Years War will comment on it, but most will > give their source as P. Morgan, 'War and Society in Medieval Cheshire, > 1277-1403' (Manchester, 1987). > > <<Is there a possibility that these archers would have been at Agincourt > in 1415?>> > > It must be possible, as the duke of Gloucester was present at the battle. > The indenture listing the men under his command at the start of the > campaign is in the PRO, reference E 101/45/13, but I believe there's a > printed version of it in a list of all the men-at-arms and archers in the > entire army in an appendix to Anne Curry's 'Agincourt: a New History' (the > 2005 hardback edition, not the 2006 paperback). > > Matt Tompkins > >

Hello Matt, Very many thanks, once again. It;s exciting to think that some of my forebears could very well have been at Agincourt and would have seen Henry V. I'll try to see a copy of Anne Curry's book. Regared, Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tompkins, M.L.L." <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk> To: "OLD ENGLISH MESSAGE" <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] MEDIEVAL SOLDIERS > <<I am intrigued to see that three Judsons are listed as archers in 1417 > in the French expedition under the command of Humphrey, Duke of > Gloucester. Judsons were my maternal ancesters whom I've traced in > Cheshire back to the 16th century. Was Cheshire known for providing > archers in the 15th. century?>> > > Yes, it certainly was! Most books on English archers, or armies > generally, during the Hundred Years War will comment on it, but most will > give their source as P. Morgan, 'War and Society in Medieval Cheshire, > 1277-1403' (Manchester, 1987). > > <<Is there a possibility that these archers would have been at Agincourt > in 1415?>> > > It must be possible, as the duke of Gloucester was present at the battle. > The indenture listing the men under his command at the start of the > campaign is in the PRO, reference E 101/45/13, but I believe there's a > printed version of it in a list of all the men-at-arms and archers in the > entire army in an appendix to Anne Curry's 'Agincourt: a New History' (the > 2005 hardback edition, not the 2006 paperback). > > Matt Tompkins > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tompkins, M.L.L." <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk> To: "OLD ENGLISH MESSAGE" <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] MEDIEVAL SOLDIERS > <<I am intrigued to see that three Judsons are listed as archers in 1417 > in the French expedition under the command of Humphrey, Duke of > Gloucester. Judsons were my maternal ancesters whom I've traced in > Cheshire back to the 16th century. Was Cheshire known for providing > archers in the 15th. century?>> > > Yes, it certainly was! Most books on English archers, or armies > generally, during the Hundred Years War will comment on it, but most will > give their source as P. Morgan, 'War and Society in Medieval Cheshire, > 1277-1403' (Manchester, 1987). > > <<Is there a possibility that these archers would have been at Agincourt > in 1415?>> > > It must be possible, as the duke of Gloucester was present at the battle. > The indenture listing the men under his command at the start of the > campaign is in the PRO, reference E 101/45/13, but I believe there's a > printed version of it in a list of all the men-at-arms and archers in the > entire army in an appendix to Anne Curry's 'Agincourt: a New History' (the > 2005 hardback edition, not the 2006 paperback). > > Matt Tompkins > >